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Author Topic: What does everyone think of this?  (Read 24704 times)
personalreality
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« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2011, 16:54:15 »

Could!

 rolleyes

It's just as valid as someone coming along and saying the afterlife is real and scientists who dismiss such notions are avoiding ridicule.

absolutely, that's why i said could be and not is.

you could also be 100% right, and honestly, in my paradigm of reality, you are both 100% right.  you can never be wrong, nor can Hawking.

and yes, he has every right to say that it's not real and that people are just scared, because most people who believe in the afterlife have NO experiential proof (like projectors) and they believe in the afterlife because they are scared of death. 
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ether2
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2011, 16:58:15 »

ether2, look at your statement carefully...

think very hard about what you said...

it's very oxymoronic.

I rest my case.


just asking if she was famous
but how do ya know she is smarter they tested each other

good luck

love all
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« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2011, 16:58:15 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Summerlander
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« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2011, 17:03:45 »

absolutely, that's why i said could be and not is.

you could also be 100% right, and honestly, in my paradigm of reality, you are both 100% right.  you can never be wrong, nor can Hawking.

and yes, he has every right to say that it's not real and that people are just scared, because most people who believe in the afterlife have NO experiential proof (like projectors) and they believe in the afterlife because they are scared of death. 

Actually, study what he said carefully...
Quote
I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.

He claims to know that there is no heaven or afterlife. He says it's a fairy story for people who are afraid of the dark...hmmm...there are plenty of people who believe and they are not afraid of the dark. Even his statement is ridiculously a travesty. Also, consider those who didn't believe, had an NDE and became convinced...

Whether or not there is an afterlife isn't the point. the point is that he is claiming to know something that he himself doesn't know for sure deep down. He is a hypocrite and lives by public appearances. I think people shouldn't be swayed by the crap he comes out with. Just recently he claimed to know there is no God...and yet religions like Christianity and Islam continue...why?...because he failed to show the world the proof and couldn't even express his belief coherently. He'd simply made an assumption.

Seriously, I've got friends who are scientists and they make way more sense than him. He's a public fiasco! grin
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ether2
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« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2011, 17:13:40 »



Seriously, I've got friends who are scientists and they make way more sense than him. He's a public fiasco! grin

thats because normal people cannot comprehend what smart people are saying
thats why you don't understand me grin

good luck

love all
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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2011, 17:14:34 »

Quote
That doesn't mean he knows it all, Stookie, and he certainly has no right to say that people who believe in the afterlife are just scared. You think that is true what he said about people being afraid?

No, he doesn't know it all, he's limited by his physical-only perception. Most people are limited in this way.

His comment is fairly demeaning, but I agree about most people being afraid. Not everyone who believes in an afterlife, but that's the gist of most religions. Either afraid of not existing or going to hell. Fear drives society more than most want to admit. So people put their ego up front and pretend to be someone who isn't afraid, maybe even fight the urge to think about what might exist. The more things we have and desires we fulfill, the more important and addicting and "real" this world becomes to us.
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« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2011, 17:14:34 »



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Summerlander
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« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2011, 18:21:32 »

What you are saying is certainly valid and you've put it better than Hawkings did. Still, whether people are afraid or not has absolutely nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of an afterlife and the fact that he felt the need to mention that to reinforce his belief says a lot about him.
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« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2011, 18:50:33 »

Yeah, he's probably afraid too.
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« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2011, 19:38:30 »

The penchant for coming to conclusions without proof is an artifact of insanity.

*lights match, runs away!*
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Szaxx
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2011, 20:08:18 »

Hi
 In a mathematically driven world, there exists probability. With probability there's possibility. With possibility theres hope, with hope there's luck, with luck theres a possible probability that hawking hasn't accepted the uncalulated fact that there's an improbability that he is actually incorrect.
His IQ is higher than mine. My IQ is higher than yours. You won the prise in the competition.
Who is most clever? The highest brain or the smartest player?
 Life is for living.
 Noone is 100% correct not even hawking, give him a break. Would you like to be in his position? All dressed up and no party.
 Not for me at all.
as far as time travel goes, search for time dilation JLN labs France, sn eye opener.
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personalreality
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« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2011, 22:10:51 »

What you are saying is certainly valid and you've put it better than Hawkings did. Still, whether people are afraid or not has absolutely nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of an afterlife and the fact that he felt the need to mention that to reinforce his belief says a lot about him.

bullcrap.  he absolutely had every right to say it and it was a completely legit comment.  he's saying that there is no afterlife and the reason that the idea of an afterlife even exists is because of people's fear of death.  i don't understand why you don't understand that.

you've already made up your mind that hawking is wrong and beyond that, that he is an as$hole who is unnecessarily taking a cheap shot at anyone who does believe in an afterlife.  making an awful lot of assumptions of his intention......

meh.  lol.

woot summer!
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« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2011, 22:34:48 »

Consider that Hawking has an illness that most people only live 3 years with. Hawking has had his illness for 40 years.

He has had a lot of time to think about his situation.
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« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2011, 23:19:50 »

I agree that Hawking's statement is crass and not thought out too well. What is to fear about non-existence after death? Nothing justifiable, really. What is to fear of an afterlife? A whole *hell* of a lot, pun intended. If I thought there was no afterlife, I wouldn't be afraid.. maybe a little sad, but not afraid. It's a shame Hawking thinks he's going from a prison of his own body straight to non-existence, a damn shame. These days I think it's ludicrous to think from a materialist frame of mind... the physical can easily be explained in terms of consciousness but I couldn't wrap my head around how inanimate material could possibly give way to awareness. We all just have an infinite playlist of virtual realities we can play with inside our skulls, right? Sorry, I just can't buy it. Not out of fear, but out of experience-driven reason.
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personalreality
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« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2011, 23:48:33 »

you may have never felt this way, but on a mass scale, people are terrified of death and especially a death of non-existence.

you all must really not "get" people.  perhaps that's my curse/gift.
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2011, 01:24:16 »

you all must really not "get" people.  perhaps that's my curse/gift.

You seem to be in a desperate need of a hug, perhaps Summerlander can accommodate you?
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Astral316
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2011, 02:07:03 »

you may have never felt this way, but on a mass scale, people are terrified of death and especially a death of non-existence.

you all must really not "get" people.  perhaps that's my curse/gift.

Don't flatter yourself. If you don't "get" my perspective then you only "get" the people who you happen to get. No one is immune to being ignorant, to some degree, of certain perspectives. That doesn't make us ignorant for forming our own.

That aside, I don't see widespread panic amongst the non-religious or atheist communities. Why not? Probably because no matter what happens we know death is as natural as birth and subsequent life. Show me someone terrified of non-existence after death and I'll show you someone who needs a psychiatrist, seriously.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 02:25:40 by Astral316 » Logged
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« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2011, 02:21:21 »

I think Mr.Hawkings hasn't really considered the possibility that he is not his body. Maybe he can't wrap his brain around that one. Scientists have a hard time believing in something that can't be proven. He also said he didn't understand women. Sounds like he is totally out of touch with his intuitive feminine side. That's quite unfortunate.
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« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2011, 08:47:56 »

Sometimes I feel like Hawkings is saying these things lately to get a rise out of people, lol; he wants to see how emotional and ruffled people get about a random comment he made in an offhand way. I know that is probably not the case, but it sure seems like it sometimes, lol.

I think the fair conclusion we can make in this case is that he is not in a definitive position to really prove what he is arguing here, just as very few if any of us are ever in a definitive position to even begin to prove what we surmise; proof in general is a tall order, and a truly rigorous one is out of anyone's reach for all but the most mundane of statements, like self-evident reflections such as "there is a world of some kind because I am here to comment on it", etc.

That does not mean that there is not some insight in what he has said. I think he is right to conclude that very much human "spirituality" starts from a premise of fear of death, and develops in a direction that mitigates these fears; it probably has a lot to do with our survival instincts going out of control when they first encounter the concept that we might fail to exist at all.
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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2011, 08:58:03 »

I dont think my spirituality started from fear of death, I use to believe the exact same thing, everything is just a chemical reaction and our mind will be gone and there is nothing after life. But then I started to notice some things and think more about the universe and realize there is a lot of things we'll never understand.
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ether2
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« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2011, 10:24:30 »

Sometimes I feel like Hawkings is saying these things lately to get a rise out of people, lol; he wants to see how emotional and ruffled people get about a random comment he made in an offhand way. I know that is probably not the case, but it sure seems like it sometimes, lol.

he is very intelligent
the smartest people in the world do this regulary for various reasons
most don't see it

good luck

love all
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« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2011, 12:12:50 »

you may have never felt this way, but on a mass scale, people are terrified of death and especially a death of non-existence.

People don't understand that DEATH IS A TERRIFYING, TERRIFYING EXPERIENCE, you nearly want to excrement in your pants in wet yourself.

How can people "not get this"? Its beyond my belief.

Having recently experienced a close call, when I was attacked and beaten for my laptop computer, I realize that facing death, is not just terrifying, it is TERRIFYING beyond belief. "Terrifying" doesn't even come close to the fear you face when someone is beating you to death, you don't just magically go unconscious during the experience, sorry for you, you feel the terror every second. Every second the terror escalates to higher and higher levels, until you can't believe how scared you can feel.

What does it feel like to be in a massive car pile up?

What does it feel to be in an earthquake and a building collapses on you and you are buried alive, slowly suffocating to death?

Everyone has to die sooner or later, wowie, what is going on in this place? An experience, with terror increasing by magnitudes as you go, for everyone? What a lovely, lovely place this is. And some people get to experience this time after time after time. Some everyday (soldiers, for example).

you all must really not "get" people.  perhaps that's my curse/gift.

Yes, I have the same "curse/gift".

I don't understand how people can not get people.

The mass media plays a big part in this, and movies, which popularize violence. They generally keep people numb to the dangers of life, until it is too late.

Funnily enough, I realized a long time ago just how terrifying death would feel, without actually experiencing anything related. Once again, I think I'm just gifted.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 12:16:13 by GodsProxy » Logged
personalreality
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« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2011, 13:15:38 »

I think the fair conclusion we can make in this case is that he is not in a definitive position to really prove what he is arguing here, just as very few if any of us are ever in a definitive position to even begin to prove what we surmise; proof in general is a tall order, and a truly rigorous one is out of anyone's reach for all but the most mundane of statements, like self-evident reflections such as "there is a world of some kind because I am here to comment on it", etc.

That does not mean that there is not some insight in what he has said. I think he is right to conclude that very much human "spirituality" starts from a premise of fear of death, and develops in a direction that mitigates these fears; it probably has a lot to do with our survival instincts going out of control when they first encounter the concept that we might fail to exist at all.

^

that's all i'm saying.

Astral316, you're making the same point i'm trying to make. 
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Summerlander
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« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2011, 13:27:04 »

bullcrap.  he absolutely had every right to say it and it was a completely legit comment.  he's saying that there is no afterlife and the reason that the idea of an afterlife even exists is because of people's fear of death.  i don't understand why you don't understand that.

you've already made up your mind that hawking is wrong and beyond that, that he is an as$hole who is unnecessarily taking a cheap shot at anyone who does believe in an afterlife.  making an awful lot of assumptions of his intention......

meh.  lol.

woot summer!

personalreality...

It is you who has misunderstood me. Whether people are afraid or not, and even if the afterlife is only an idea that was made up...it still does not rule out the possibility that an afterlife actually exists. Hawkings did not have to mention that people are afraid and that therefore it is all made up. He can't be sure it is all made up because he simply doesn't know.

@ the person who posted about dilation. I know all about that. They say time travel into the future is possible but you can't go back. However...this assumption is based on what we know so far plus theories. Even Einestein was wrong sometimes.

I agree that Hawking's statement is crass and not thought out too well. What is to fear about non-existence after death? Nothing justifiable, really. What is to fear of an afterlife? A whole *hell* of a lot, pun intended. If I thought there was no afterlife, I wouldn't be afraid.. maybe a little sad, but not afraid. It's a shame Hawking thinks he's going from a prison of his own body straight to non-existence, a damn shame. These days I think it's ludicrous to think from a materialist frame of mind... the physical can easily be explained in terms of consciousness but I couldn't wrap my head around how inanimate material could possibly give way to awareness. We all just have an infinite playlist of virtual realities we can play with inside our skulls, right? Sorry, I just can't buy it. Not out of fear, but out of experience-driven reason.

Exactamundo! It is also ludicrous to claim with so much certainty that the brain...a piece of meat...can create something as amazing as consciousness. To me, that sounds more like a fairytale/materialist's fantasy than anything else. rolleyes

By the way, many devout Buddhists aim for nirvana, a very difficult state to achieve...it equates with the cessation of being...they are not afraid of it...they want to embrace it!

Also, and this one is for ether2...read The Tibetan Book of the Dead. Death doesn't have to be a terrifying experience. the book is all about preparing you to be in a good frame of mind prior to your death. Many people are reported to die peacefully and with a smile on their faces. It is usually the ones who have let go of everything and encourage the ones who cry for them to do the same.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 13:39:21 by Summerlander » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2011, 14:10:52 »

GodsProxy,
You're not talking about "death"... you're talking about the act of "dying" (noun vs verb).
They are two completely separate things.

Your "dying" here could very well be excruciatingly painful... or it could be as smooth as falling asleep.
That pain, only lasts for so long.  Pain is only a temporary state.  It eventually gives way to the passing, which is, in my opinion at least, most joyous.
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personalreality
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« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2011, 14:20:23 »

*wipes hands*

done.
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« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2011, 14:22:12 »

*wipes hands*

done.
I think I'll second that.
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