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Author Topic: What is "real"?  (Read 5707 times)
Xanth
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« on: December 23, 2014, 00:56:18 »

So?  What is real?  What does that mean to you?  What is real to you?

Most people here should know my opinion on this already.  LoL
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2014, 00:58:50 »

Our soul and the source is the only thing that is real for me.. Everything else is projected illusion
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2014, 00:58:50 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

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Kzaal
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2014, 03:39:10 »

Everything we experience is real. From physical, to dreams and astral projection, visions, and clairvoyance, telepathy etc. It's either everything is real or nothing is. Whichever one it is, it wouldn't change much. What do we define as real? We don't even really know what it is actually. If I bleed and it hurts and must be real? but is it?

Real is the totality of what's inside the big melting pot where all ideas/feelings/imagination/life is poured in.
Why do I say dreams/AP/meditation is real?
Because when I close my eyes, that story and those pictures I've seen took place somewhere in my brain or mind or spirit. They took place somewhere and so to me it is real. My reality is my everyday life. Including Astral Projection and Lucid Dreams.

The thing is that most people who never experienced those 2 things will tell you it's not real. We are in a place where we experience multitudes of realities, Universal Laws and much more. When people tell us it's not real but we experienced it, we are not sure anymore and we try to differentiate the real from the unreal. But it's all linked together. As soon as you imagine it, it's there somewhere in this gigantic reality.
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2014, 05:49:15 »

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Everything we experience is real. From physical, to dreams and astral projection, visions, and clairvoyance, telepathy etc.
Basically that even though "real" essentially only holds as much value as you put it in (well you can say that for plenty of other words). Ill give an example. 

   For instance, lets say you felt like you had an illusion of you naked in front of your family. For you, the vision was real, but for the family, it wasnt. You wont act as if the family had saw you, but the latter since it wasnt real to them therefore "real" to you, unless you think your family is lying for w.e reasons.

   Same goes for others who dont/cant percieve what you do such as ghost/entities. It will be real to you, but to most others it wont even though you are the only one seeing them in your family.

   For NP related things, people may say the dream wasnt real since it isnt part of the physical, even though the dream itself was "real."

    tl:dr   Everything we experience is "real."
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Xanth
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2014, 08:13:16 »

You are everything and everything is you.
So, perception of "who" is experiencing is meaningless.
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2014, 08:13:16 »



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Kzaal
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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2014, 08:43:59 »

You are everything and everything is you.
So, perception of "who" is experiencing is meaningless.

Xanth I could use your help with that because of some things I don't understand.
Like for me at the point I am, we all eventually experience the same feelings, and probably experience everyone's life at some point with reincarnation.
What I don't understand tho is that, not everyone is advanced at the same level, and I feel my spiritual identity will never be the same as someone else.
Sure they will have the same judgement and the same knowledge/wisdom eventually. But I will have advanced too.
And yeah I mean if we all end up in the astral with spiritual body we'll pretty much be all like brothers and sisters sharing the same judgement and probably even the same point of view.
But we'll still have our identity to differentiate who we're communicating with.
I what it means to be everything as a community of spirit who always stick together
What I mean to ask you is, up to where is this statement true, because I don't understand how as a spiritual being we can merge with others and with everything that surrounds us.
Sure it could be done as if you would merge with the source.
But what is the direction of that statement. If a spirit is enlightened and eventually make it's own universe wouldn't that make him also everything? (being that he knows everyone in his universe then he would have all the knowledge right?)
Or is it that we go to the source, he teaches us about everything then we make our own universe?

Please tell me in which sense it affects us spiritually, because I'm not sure there is only one spirit. (I think we all have our own).
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2014, 10:56:21 »

real is whatever I'm experiencing right now  cheesy
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2014, 11:46:00 »

Also a little confused. Please elaborate, Xanth.
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Xanth
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2014, 18:33:29 »

I'll get back to this when I get some time, probably tonight.  Please remind me if I haven't.  Smiley

EDIT, found some time!  \o/
Please tell me in which sense it affects us spiritually, because I'm not sure there is only one spirit. (I think we all have our own).
When you realize the true nature of your existence, you realize that we're all connected.  We're all one.
So, in essence, when you harm another person/animal/whatever... you're really only harming yourself.  Likewise, for when you make advancement in yourself.

You are everything and everything is you.  You are me and I am you.  Upon understanding (not just intellectually knowing) that... you realize that being an butt is just a complete waste of time.
But likewise, and perhaps ironically, you also realize that people are who are they and they are that way for a reason.  They are that way because they're at a certain point in their spiritual growth cycle where they have to be in order to learn and grow.  So you allow them to be as they are. 

You'd be surprised how many people intellectually know this... but don't understand it.

So, in Kaje's question... you can also understand now why the perception of "who" is experiencing is meaningless, because what *YOU* are perceiving, *I* am perceiving as well.  You are a different perspective of myself... and in the end, it's not even the experiences that are important... it's the spiritual growth that occurred to us on the level beyond the physical that matters.  That's why I say that "there is nothing physical that really matters".

There's also a greater understanding of the "we are one" thing when extended to the concept of consciousness and non-physical exploration as well. 

To tie this all back into my original question... "What is real?" 
Nothing is real.  Real exists as much as a dream exists.  It exists as much as you exist... and you don't exist.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 23:07:11 by Xanth » Logged

Karxx Gxx
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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2014, 04:35:29 »

I now better understand the concept that we're all connected, and technically the perception of "who" is experiencing is meaningless.
But..
Quote
it's the spiritual growth that occurred to us on the level beyond the physical that matters
Isnt the physical important in the fact that we are in it, since as of right now, we can only experience, be effected in the NP by being the P? So we are wasting our time experiencing anything in the physical basically or..?  IF that is the case, I disagree. May have interpreted it wrong so Ill just leave it at that for now.

Thanks for the posts though, and the thread!  grin
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Xanth
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« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2014, 07:45:37 »

I'm not saying there is no value to the physical... or any reality for that matter which you might experience.  Although, any reality where there are rules and consequences for your actions provide the greatest chances for spiritual advancement.  For if you have nothing to lose... you also have nothing to gain.

I recently heard Eckhart Tolle mention something in one of his lectures (but he meant it in a slightly different way, albeit similar) which I felt fit here nicely:

This physical reality is the canvas upon which your growth occurs.  Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2014, 20:22:10 »

To me the only things I know are real are my own thoughts and feelings .  I could drink some beer , or take any of a number of things  and conpleetly change my perception of reality , so it is a tough problem . 
They have a simular discussion on s.t. Some times I have a tough time understanding them .
http://spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3912/real-illusion
http://spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3914/real-illusion-spillover
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Xanth
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2014, 22:10:04 »

To me the only things I know are real are my own thoughts and feelings .  I could drink some beer , or take any of a number of things  and conpleetly change my perception of reality , so it is a tough problem . 
They have a simular discussion on s.t. Some times I have a tough time understanding them .
http://spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3912/real-illusion
http://spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3914/real-illusion-spillover
But how do you know your thoughts and feelings are real? 
That's kind of the point.  When you really drill down to the question...
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2014, 04:01:41 »

I think a lot of books have been written and philosophers' brains racked, and the best answers seem to be,

1)  Nothing is real.
2)  Everything is real.
3)  It's a meaningless question.

I personally believe it's all of the above.



Also as far as merging with others and spiritual progress.  Imagine someone plays some video games, like Mario, some Zelda game, and whatever else.  Mario may miraculously realize "I have a higher self guiding me and I'm one with the universe."  Then you play your Zelda game and Link may have the same revelation.  In this case these characters may have preprogrammed destinies but you the player are their "higher self" that guides them through their "lives" and you know what connections they may or may not have with other game characters, and you can appreciate their unique qualities and experiences and personalities, because you've been them.  Really they're all just a bunch of electronics and their existences are just an illusion.  Same for us.  We belong to larger game, and we play through the motions as we're guided by our true selves, but really our existence as independent beings is an illusion.  Everything is just part of 1 thing.  Being separate is an illusion or mechanism created specifically for us to be able to have these kinds of experiences.

I read what I thought was a pretty powerful perspective a few weeks ago, that pointed out that if everything is an illusion, then it wouldn't just apply to the physical dimensions.  Everything we imagine to be in the "spiritual dimensions" are just illusions too.  Smiley
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 04:10:51 by no_leaf_clover » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2014, 06:07:49 »

So?  What is real?  What does that mean to you?  What is real to you?

Most people here should know my opinion on this already.  LoL

Such a simple but profound question. I remember when I was 5 or 6 years old I'd see flashes of light above me in the sky and when I asked my Mom what they were she said they were Angels looking after me  smiley I ended up going to school and asking my teacher the same question and telling her what my mother had said. She got quite angry and told me to stop talking rubbish and there must be something wrong with my eyes! So my reality at that time shifted from believing I had Angels flying around me looking out for me to thinking I was crazy or there was something up with my eyes! What my teacher said to me scarred me a bit because I didn't like this new reality she gave me. Real is really different to us all and like my experience highlights can change at any moment.
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« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2014, 08:49:29 »

But how do you know your thoughts and feelings are real? 
That's kind of the point.  When you really drill down to the question...

We could be lines of code on a matrex like computer some where , we could be left over energy on the outer edge of a black hole event horzion .  Who knows . 
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Kzaal
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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2014, 14:50:15 »

To me I've always thought that spiritual merging was counter-productive. I mean, if all spirits come from the source and it took it's time to forge us individually, wouldn't it be kinda disrespectful to go back in the source?
I've always thought that it was better to be next to god, but not in it, a pure connection without the need to be bounded to him, I mean that's what it's always been about.
To me, as much as the church is not a building but a place inside you, as much as god is within you.
Doesn't matter if you're in the source or out of it as you have the same bound as someone out of it and have been entitled by god himself telling you that you are a god yourself.

To me real is as much here as it will be in the after life, real is where you put your focus/awareness and conscience at.
If your conscience is always within god but your astral body is doing celestial duties then it's as good in my opinion.
Can you really say that you are not merged with god if your conscience is always within him? I don't think so.
Do spirits gain more privileges by being totally immersed? I don't know but to me that would surprise me.
Unless you go to him for celestial advice and merge for a moment to understand in deeper details. But even then.
If you're always connected...

But yeah, Real is just a way to tell that your focus/awareness and conscience is always in reality.
I don't think there's anything such as not real. Unless no one thought about it yet or know about it, a thing cannot be unreal unless it's not invented or thought about in some way or another, as soon as it exist it's part of reality.

Or the opposite, the unreal become the real and vice versa. But again, it wouldn't change anything.
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« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2015, 11:41:50 »

We are the Borg. Resistance is futile.

Loss of personal self is a huge fear for many. Individualism is a source of pride fuelled by our ego.

Take away the idea that you are unique, how does that make you feel?  Off topic yet?
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2015, 00:36:05 »

Everything we experience and perceive is real. The devil is in the interpretations of our experiences, which may or may not turn out to be real. Everyone has their own interpretation and experiences. Experiences shape interpretation and interpretation shape experiences.

The key is in finding discernment to gain the best interpretation of our experience. And no other method is better at doing that than science. Science teaches us that it's much better to use experience to shape our interpretation through the scientific method, rather than using our evolutionary intuition/interpretation which is often wrong since we are often spiritually disconnected.

In the end different interpretations are needed to gain the full picture of the interpretation of reality. It's all about balance in those interpretations. So that one interpretation isn't overwhelmingly overbearing the others. So it's OK that someone else has a different interpretation than you on reality, we just need to move toward better and better interpretations and balances of the big picture of reality.
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« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2015, 01:52:41 »

The question of what is real. Is when it all comes down to it is philosophical one that is relative to one degree or another, with no one answer IMO. But definitions with a comprehensive understanding of the subject helps a lot.

Illusion or reality. The difference from the spiritual perspective is that the greater the reality and greater the illusion. Meaning the longer lasting things give a greater illusion. Conversely the more temporary something is the less of an illusion something is. Since you can see it more as an illusion or as temporary. The physical is the greatest illusion. The key is learning the more abstract which is the rules that govern this reality and all the others. It's the correct interpretation as I said in my previous post. As Thomas Campbell calls it the "rule set" right. And the fastest path toward learning that rule set for everyone is science.

In short any illusion still has it's realness in being an illusion regardless of how long it lasts. Lastly even the most real thing we know of "the physical" is temporary. One day our earth will get sucked into a black hole. Along with many other planets. But the rule set will be forever that governs this reality. And even that we can't say with absolute certainty will exist if this physical would one day go back to it's source. We must learn the rules and the truth that governs reality. Science is the fastest path for the whole world to know with absolute certainty that the spiritual is real. It's just a matter of time.
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Xanth
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« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2015, 10:50:59 »

A quick question for you then... is your answer built up on your own experiences or those that you have read about here?

In other words, are you saying only what I want to hear?  Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2015, 21:19:10 »

A quick question for you then... is your answer built up on your own experiences or those that you have read about here?

In other words, are you saying only what I want to hear?  Smiley
Assuming your talking to me, I am not trying to say what you want to hear, no. I am saying what I believe. And not just because I heard it here but from all the other sources of spiritual knowledge that all seem to point to what I was saying.

And to a degree yes my opinion is built up from first hand experience.
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