The Astral Pulse
News: http://www.astralpulse.com/aup.html. Acceptable Use Policy for the forums. Please read and ensure that you respect these policies. Thank you.

Please note that due to the amount of spam posts we have been receiving over the past few months, we have switched Registration to require you to be approved by a moderator.  We will go through the approval list as often as we can, but if it's been 24 hours and you haven't been Approved yet or you've received a rejection email, please email myself or one of the moderators immediately so we may correct the application.

We apologize for any inconveniences this may cause, but it's the last resort we have to fighting the spam for now.
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. November 23, 2017, 12:52:53


Login with username, password and session length


Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What is the heart of your ethics?  (Read 2040 times)
PlasmaAstralProjection
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 932



View Profile
« on: July 21, 2015, 07:15:22 »

Hi all, so I have thought a lot about ethics. What is ethical, what is moral, and almost everything in between. So ideally I would say the heart of a good ethic is to not cause harm or suffering. And from this I would make all or almost all moral ethical judgements. Utilitarianism is similar to this ideal. My brother said the heart of all ethical judgements should be around not infringing on other peoples privacy.

So what is the heart of a good ethical mind?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 19:27:16 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
Szaxx
Global Moderator
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4968


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2015, 12:34:02 »

Do as the locals do.
I've said this many times, you'll fit in better and then your words will be heard.
It applies to the NP too.
Logged

There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.
The Astral Pulse
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2015, 12:34:02 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

 Logged
PlasmaAstralProjection
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 932



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2015, 19:49:32 »

Do as the locals do.
I've said this many times, you'll fit in better and then your words will be heard.
It applies to the NP too.
That can't be always true, I mean some groups and societies do all kinds of crazy things that are unethical. So I wouldn't call that a universal ethic. But rather a sub-category of ethics. BTW I like that idea Szaxx, unfortunately it's not a universal code of ethics.

So what is the real heart of an ethical mind?
Logged
PlasmaAstralProjection
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 932



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2015, 19:50:24 »

Xanth is a real philosopher, what are your thoughts Xanth?
Logged
Xanth
Administrator
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11139

Kitten of Terror says MEOW!!!


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 22:21:20 »

Xanth is a real philosopher, what are your thoughts Xanth?
I'm neither a philospher... nor are my thoughts important to anyone but myself.

You want MY answer to your question?  Intent based upon Love.

That is all.
Logged

The Astral Pulse
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 22:21:20 »



 Logged
Szaxx
Global Moderator
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4968


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2015, 22:54:48 »

Think bigger, you'll see more in my words.
Logged

There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.
Kzaal
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 381


Walk the Path to your Higher Self


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2015, 01:34:56 »

I don't really associate with any ethic code really, I just follow my values and the dao...
If you know what are all the important values/valors etc you don't really need an ethic code, you just follow your philosophy and stick to your values.
An ethic code not much important unless you are in a very specific situation. For example a doctor who has to unplug someone...
I am not in a professional position where I have to make such decisions. Doing something bad but since it's ethical is considered good in the long run... I just try my best to do as good as possible in every situation I face, even tho I don't face much troublesome situation like that.

To me it's important for anyone to learn what are all the important values, learn their description, learn how to use these.
Not enough people know what they are. That and it's important to learn how they work together.
Emotions and feelings, values/valors and instinct.
I think it's all about the spirit, love, and making the right decisions based on what you feel is the right choice.

Ethics can change depending on someone's situation and feelings, values don't.
If you stick to your values you'll always make the right decisions.
And it's not about choosing a specific set of values... It's about learning what they're all about and keeping them in mind every time you have to make a decision.
The problem with ethics is that they are like specific orders for a specific situation. They don't teach you why you would make such decision except: This is bad, this is good.
While values give you all information for every possible challenge you can face and what you have to use in order to go through that situation while understanding the consequences and everything else...

Ethics do respect values since it's based on that. But in certain situation ethics can be wrong because it's too old... I don't know if you understand what I mean...
Logged

The partial becomes complete; the crooked, straight; the empty,
full; the worn out, new. He whose (desires) are few gets them; he
whose (desires) are many goes astray.
PlasmaAstralProjection
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 932



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2015, 21:58:08 »

Think bigger, you'll see more in my words.
If your speaking generally speaking I can get that, but doing as the locals do isn't always smart. I remember you telling me of places in the astral where the things that they were doing there you didn't like. Am I missing something?

I don't really associate with any ethic code really, I just follow my values and the dao...
If you know what are all the important values/valors etc you don't really need an ethic code, you just follow your philosophy and stick to your values.
An ethic code not much important unless you are in a very specific situation. For example a doctor who has to unplug someone...
I am not in a professional position where I have to make such decisions. Doing something bad but since it's ethical is considered good in the long run... I just try my best to do as good as possible in every situation I face, even tho I don't face much troublesome situation like that.

For the purpose of this question ethics and values can be interchangeable.

Ethics can change depending on someone's situation and feelings, values don't.

I must disagree with this. People change, life isn't static. Ethics and values change with time. Perhaps ethics a little more but even still they both change.

If you stick to your values you'll always make the right decisions.

Come on man. I think in ultimate and universal ways. I can't see how by merely sticking to ones values that makes their values correct.

And it's not about choosing a specific set of values... It's about learning what they're all about and keeping them in mind every time you have to make a decision.
The problem with ethics is that they are like specific orders for a specific situation. They don't teach you why you would make such decision except: This is bad, this is good.

I have to disagree with this too.

Why do we disagree so much. Perhaps it's partially our definitions we are using are different.

While values give you all information for every possible challenge you can face and what you have to use in order to go through that situation while understanding the consequences and everything else...

Ethics do respect values since it's based on that. But in certain situation ethics can be wrong because it's too old... I don't know if you understand what I mean...

No I don't, perhaps you can enlighten me.

Other than that I think I should point out some of the philosophical ethics involved into moral. Such as utilitarianism, consequentialism, deontology, Egoism, Virtue ethics. All these are branches of philosophy. So perhaps there is no one sure fire ethic or set of values. I have a hard time believing that though. Certainly there is something to be gained from studying these branches of ethics.
Logged
Szaxx
Global Moderator
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4968


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2015, 02:31:21 »

Yep, keep thinking about what else I said.
Having an ethical viewpoint is no more productive than anyone's opinion. Making that personal level contact is the only way you can change their ways into something more suitable for all.
That's ethical.
To be there, is to see, that's all you can ever do.
To do what's right in changing bad ideals is being ethical for the good of all.
A much bigger picture.
When you give your heart to the wolf with the red rose, make sure you speak wolf.
Nothing is easy and self sacrifice can result in resolution.
The rivers of the NP can run deep.
I can't get enough of these experiences, they challenge your soul.
Logged

There's far more where the eye can't see.
Close your eyes and open your mind.
Stillwater
Global Moderator
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2740


IntangibleDust
View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2015, 03:35:48 »

I think you don't need a lot of different rules if you have central concepts which inform the others. The core of the Buddhist and Upanishadic systems has always made sense to me, and is incredibly simple- don't cause harm if you can avoid it. It is also a good rule of thumb to treat others the best way you can allow in any given situation.

Pretty basic, and nothing groundbreaking, but then I don't think you will see much innovation in this topic, and I think that is a good thing- if it was very difficult to see what was ethical, we would be in a much worse situation than we are now.

Another good standard is Immanuel Kant's Universal ethical principle: for any given action, would it be better for everyone to take this action, or for no one to take this action? If no one should take this action, then the action is best avoided in the majority of cases. If everyone should take the action, then it is probably a case where someone is ethically negligent not to do it.

Then a level more complex than that, is the modern system of "normative ethics". That system posits, like Kant, that there are some ethical constraints that should generally not be broken unless it can't be avoided without doing greater harm, and there may even be constraints which should never be broken at all. An example of one of the first kind, a conditional constraint, might be something like stealing. Probably wrong to do in most cases, but acceptable if greater harm is avoided as a result. Examples of absolute constraints are much harder to come by, because a person can think of creatively absurd situations under which any rule ought to be broken, but a candidate might be something like a person ought not to murder their children.

Normative ethics is about weighing these constraints against one another, to see which should trump the others in various situations, and is sort of a tricky game. An example of a mental game that illustrates this type of thinking is the "trolley problem", which is a set of situations that pits the constraints in a contest, such as, "If a trolley carrying 12 orphans was about to crash into a stalled bus full of 8 Nuns on the tracks, but you could hit a switch, and the trolley full of orphans were to instead hit a car full of 6 neurosurgeons, what action would you take, and why?

Sounds silly, but it is the sort of thing you need to do to write the principles that guides mechanical systems such as medical ethics boards, because those systems need hard and complex rules, and they are difficult to devise, because they are in some sense arbitrary.
Logged

"The Gardener is but a dream of the Garden."

-Unattributed Zen monastic
PlasmaAstralProjection
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 932



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2015, 06:54:59 »

I'll try to reply tomorrow.
Logged
AAAAAAAA
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 382


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2015, 01:55:15 »

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will.
Logged
Stillwater
Global Moderator
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2740


IntangibleDust
View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2015, 05:18:58 »

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law. Love under will.

That was Alistair Crowley's phrasing of an old Pagan dictum.

I sort of like how the later Wiccans chose to phrase it...

"And it harm none, do what you will."
Logged

"The Gardener is but a dream of the Garden."

-Unattributed Zen monastic
PlasmaAstralProjection
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 932



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2015, 07:26:24 »

Yep, keep thinking about what else I said.
Having an ethical viewpoint is no more productive than anyone's opinion. Making that personal level contact is the only way you can change their ways into something more suitable for all.
That's ethical.
To be there, is to see, that's all you can ever do.
To do what's right in changing bad ideals is being ethical for the good of all.
A much bigger picture.
When you give your heart to the wolf with the red rose, make sure you speak wolf.
Nothing is easy and self sacrifice can result in resolution.
The rivers of the NP can run deep.
I can't get enough of these experiences, they challenge your soul.
So are you saying that you have went as far out of your way as to speak wolf in order to help others? Metaphorically speaking of course.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 07:49:48 by PlasmaAstralProjection » Logged
PlasmaAstralProjection
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 932



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2015, 07:40:16 »

I think you don't need a lot of different rules if you have central concepts which inform the others. The core of the Buddhist and Upanishadic systems has always made sense to me, and is incredibly simple- don't cause harm if you can avoid it. It is also a good rule of thumb to treat others the best way you can allow in any given situation.

Right that was the heart of my ethic/values when I said earlier "to not cause harm or suffering". I got this from Buddhism like you said.

Another good standard is Immanuel Kant's Universal ethical principle: for any given action, would it be better for everyone to take this action, or for no one to take this action? If no one should take this action, then the action is best avoided in the majority of cases. If everyone should take the action, then it is probably a case where someone is ethically negligent not to do it.

I haven't heard of that one. Hum.

Then a level more complex than that, is the modern system of "normative ethics". That system posits, like Kant, that there are some ethical constraints that should generally not be broken unless it can't be avoided without doing greater harm, and there may even be constraints which should never be broken at all. An example of one of the first kind, a conditional constraint, might be something like stealing. Probably wrong to do in most cases, but acceptable if greater harm is avoided as a result. Examples of absolute constraints are much harder to come by, because a person can think of creatively absurd situations under which any rule ought to be broken, but a candidate might be something like a person ought not to murder their children.

Normative ethics is about weighing these constraints against one another, to see which should trump the others in various situations, and is sort of a tricky game. An example of a mental game that illustrates this type of thinking is the "trolley problem", which is a set of situations that pits the constraints in a contest, such as, "If a trolley carrying 12 orphans was about to crash into a stalled bus full of 8 Nuns on the tracks, but you could hit a switch, and the trolley full of orphans were to instead hit a car full of 6 neurosurgeons, what action would you take, and why?

LOL yeah that is funny.

Sounds silly, but it is the sort of thing you need to do to write the principles that guides mechanical systems such as medical ethics boards, because those systems need hard and complex rules, and they are difficult to devise, because they are in some sense arbitrary.
Yeah like doctor assisted suicide. Well actually I can sum up pretty fast why doctor assisted suicide is ethical based on the idea of not causing more suffering than needed.

Thanks for your input. It game me somethings to think about.
Logged
PlasmaAstralProjection
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 932



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2015, 07:44:07 »

Wow I am so proud of myself I just hit 4 stars at over 500 posts. This is awesome. Actually I would have had this sooner since I had two accounts. Don't worry moderators it's been fixed. Anyway it just speaks to values of knowledge I've gained about astral projection.

Thanks for being here for me guys.  grin  With a special shout out to Szaxx.  wink
Logged
PlasmaAstralProjection
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 932



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2015, 07:48:08 »

That was Alistair Crowley's phrasing of an old Pagan dictum.

I sort of like how the later Wiccans chose to phrase it...

"And it harm none, do what you will."
Yeah I like the Wiccan version better. It's actually pretty similar to my own beliefs then.
Logged
AAAAAAAA
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 382


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2015, 22:54:14 »

That was Alistair Crowley's phrasing of an old Pagan dictum.

I sort of like how the later Wiccans chose to phrase it...

"And it harm none, do what you will."

I like Crowley's version the best (or at least what we can deduce his intended meaning was based on the rest of his writings). I'm not a fan of new age-ish things, really. I still haven't gotten use to all of it, and probably never will, lol.
Logged
The Astral Pulse
   



 Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums


The Astral Pulse Copyright 2002 - 2014
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM