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Author Topic: Being able to project only by focusing on breathing. How is that possible?  (Read 1442 times)
superman
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« on: October 17, 2017, 16:57:37 »

Hey!

So here is a french post about a guy who says that he projects only by relaxing his body and focus on breathing (and making it slower and slower), he even says that he focuses on the sound on the heart beat. At some point he just gets paralysed and he projects... http://www.ld4all.com/fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338

How is that possible because here we often read about the non physical focus to be able to project and about all the "visualisation" stuff... How is that just by focusing on breathing leads to projection? What is your theory on this? Why there is so much techniques when it is that "easy" lol ?

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Volgerle
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 19:30:30 »

There are many techniques, not all are based on visualisations.

Some are more tactile or 'kinetic'.

Your breath is something regular and soothing and calming. Like a mantra you can speak in your mind.
It helps to get focussed. So I believe it can work for some people.

Whatever floats your boat.  wink
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 19:30:30 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2017, 19:35:47 »

The slow breathing is a natural state for humans. When we are sleeping it tends to be deep in the diaphragm and rhythmic. We lose that with the stress of adulthood and it is unhealthy. Some people call the technique of projection through this mechanism "sleep breathing". They suggest you even go as far as to record your breathing pattern while you are asleep and learn to replicate it. Many techniques are effective for doing this such as box breathing or my preferred Butekyo. You should think of it like an action that induces sleep paralysis, that is what happens in practice.

Focusing on the heart beat or the breathing itself, even if you don't do sleep breathing changes your brain waves. Lucid dreaming and deep meditation tend to be associated with low levels of "beta waves" that usually correspond to cerebral cortex logical thought in our waking state, and an increase in gamma waves. The ceasing of the beta waves shouldn't be mandatory for OBE, but the presence of gamma waves possibly is mandatory. When a person's third eye is open these waves are able to co-exist in synchronization - think of it like experiencing logic, creative insight, intuition and lucid dreaming simultaneously; truly a blissful state.

In general I think it is necessary to reduce the beta waves in order for the gamma behavior to begin, so we squelch the cerebral cortex. The Buddha gave instructions on the achieving the out of body state; "stop naming things". That's the cortex. Focusing on the breathing or heart beat fills your mind with busy work that is intended to distract you from naming things. That is all that is going on here in my opinion. The visualization and non physical focus methods are a kind of advanced short cut into the gamma wave state that can make it easier to make the transition without experiencing uncomfortable exit symptoms.

I'll preempt a question; when you lose your "non physical focus" and thoughts return to your body, you have started to name things and returned to the beta brain wave state.
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Lumaza
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2017, 19:56:56 »

Quote
How is that possible because here we often read about the non physical focus to be able to project and about all the "visualisation" stuff... How is that just by focusing on breathing leads to projection? What is your theory on this? Why there is so much techniques when it is that "easy" lol ?
He is still using a Focus. His focus is on his breathing instead of visualization. The key to consciously projecting is to create a strong focused will and intent outside of this physical realm and hold it. He chooses to focus on his breath breathing, like many do. That's the first thing you are taught when you learn to meditate. Other people may choose visualization. Some like more of a "tactile approach". But in the end, they are all methods of focusing.
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 22:23:15 »

In the beginning just breathing is all I used to project as well, until my mind just started to go wild with thoughts instead of quietness, plus other people started throwing in all these other techniques, leaving the most basic one on the back burner til most start forgetting about it. That was how I achieved my very first projection, just by listening to my breathing, while only trying to take a nap, didn't know about AP back then either, so it just happened. So its nothing new just one of the basics that most threw to the waste side when others suggested other techniques. If I can just get my mind to stop rambling on I would love to go back to it.
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Lumaza
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2017, 08:52:10 »

In the beginning just breathing is all I used to project as well, until my mind just started to go wild with thoughts instead of quietness, plus other people started throwing in all these other techniques, leaving the most basic one on the back burner til most start forgetting about it. That was how I achieved my very first projection, just by listening to my breathing, while only trying to take a nap, didn't know about AP back then either, so it just happened. So its nothing new just one of the basics that most threw to the waste side when others suggested other techniques. If I can just get my mind to stop rambling on I would love to go back to it.
That's why having a AP/Journal is such a blessing. You can go back and read what used to work, when you find yourself in a lull. I find that the "lull" is challenging you to come another way at it. It's like okay, you made it here using breathing. What are you going to do next?
  Yes, there are so many techniques out there that you can forget the simple things/basic things, like what got you there in the first place. I still enjoy the "candle staring". Although there is no way I will experience what I did in the beginning while using it. It's still a great and very simple thing to do. It's especially good if all someone wants is a little "sneak peek" of what hides beyond the "veil".
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2017, 22:04:40 »

@Lumaza oh trust and believe I have revisited a lot of techniques that worked for me in the past, but for some reason, they don't work anymore, so like you said we are being challenged to go further. if I did have something i'm pursuing  right now I wouldn't mind the challenge, so now this challenge is ridiculous ATM, with this in effect I haven't been AP for quite a while.
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Lumaza
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2017, 22:59:25 »

if I did have something i'm pursuing  right now I wouldn't mind the challenge, so now this challenge is ridiculous ATM, with this in effect I haven't been AP for quite a while.
Then "set the stage" and be opened to what the NPR wants to teach you.
 
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 16:22:51 »

that's just it, I haven't had any type of non physical experiences, outside of regular dreaming, and that hasn't given me anything worth saying its a lesson
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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 20:07:56 »

that's just it, I haven't had any type of non physical experiences, outside of regular dreaming, and that hasn't given me anything worth saying its a lesson

I would hazard to say that there is almost always something like a lesson in the dream. It is more of a matter of how cryptic the message is, such as, was the entire dream a metaphor for something else. Sometimes it is also about the way you react to the content of the dream, providing insight on your natural inclinations. It may require an expansion of perspective with respect to what lessons are available or likely to be given.

They will usually revolve around some kind of fear mechanic initially: jealousy; aggression; selfishness; guilt; causing suffering for others; causing suffering for yourself; not taking action to eliminate suffering; examine your experiences in this context in physical life too. Other times the experience might revolve around letting go of false beliefs or baggage of the past. Perhaps it is about emotional control required to operate in other realities by the code of conduct. Sometimes it can just be experiencing love in some way.

The thing about techniques is that the same process will often not (maybe never) yield the same results it did on previous trials. Consider the problem of "chasing the dragon" in drug use. The first experience is innately unique, not just because you have not developed any tolerance to the substance, but because you are experiencing things you never have before. The new experiences carve neural pathways in your brain to log these unusual signals and make sense of them - this feeling of learning is part of the dragon high. Next time you use the drug you have tolerance, but the learning portion is diminished and thus the overall experience is unsatisfactory compared to the first.

Astral projection techniques can be like chasing the dragon, the first time it was new and exciting and that can make it easier to approach success signs through the energy generated by enthusiasm and dopamine releases associated with neural carving out of new symptom signals. Next time though, technique seems boring and ineffective compared to the first time so we look for a new technique. Human biology is designed to fall into this trap unfortunately, the brain has a habit of releasing dopamine before you try the technique that over delivers on the expectation success, then it deliberately under delivers on the dopamine release of the actual experience and breaks the promise it made. The whole point of this mechanic is to keep you perpetually running the treadmill searching for new techniques that deliver the original high (finding the next food source or mate in evolutionary biology).


« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 20:18:27 by ThaomasOfGrey » Logged
baro-san
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 20:29:36 »

I believe that the "not (anymore) working projection technique" syndrome is rooted in our trying to mechanically use techniques we don't understand, so eventually we apply them incorrectly, or in the wrong conditions. Once we succeed in understanding the phenomenon, almost any technique will work.
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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2017, 02:40:58 »

What do you think the key is to understanding the phenomenon Baro?
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baro-san
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2017, 05:04:25 »

What do you think the key is to understanding the phenomenon Baro?
Your question is fair. Smiley I opened the door for it.
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Lumaza
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2017, 06:11:42 »

I would hazard to say that there is almost always something like a lesson in the dream.

 They will usually revolve around some kind of fear mechanic initially: jealousy; aggression; selfishness; guilt; causing suffering for others; causing suffering for yourself; not taking action to eliminate suffering; examine your experiences in this context in physical life too. Other times the experience might revolve around letting go of false beliefs or baggage of the past. Perhaps it is about emotional control required to operate in other realities by the code of conduct. Sometimes it can just be experiencing love in some way.
 

 I agree 100% with that. Dreams are a "school" of sort. There is messages everywhere. You are always handling some aspect of your physical existence. Be it baggage, emotional healing, all kinds of things.

Quote
Astral projection techniques can be like chasing the dragon, the first time it was new and exciting and that can make it easier to approach success signs through the energy generated by enthusiasm and dopamine releases associated with neural carving out of new symptom signals. Next time though, technique seems boring and ineffective compared to the first time so we look for a new technique. Human biology is designed to fall into this trap unfortunately, the brain has a habit of releasing dopamine before you try the technique that over delivers on the expectation success, then it deliberately under delivers on the dopamine release of the actual experience and breaks the promise it made. The whole point of this mechanic is to keep you perpetually running the treadmill searching for new techniques that deliver the original high (finding the next food source or mate in evolutionary biology).
Astral projection can definitely be like "chasing the Dragon". But that Dragon can be caught.

 We talk about all the lessons in Dreams and that made me look back through my Astral Journals beginning in early 2011.

 Here is a brief 5 year time-line of things I experienced and when. I am showing you this because you will see there is "progression". The first experience was a eye opener. The ones that preceded it though were all "lessons" on one thing or another. But each one was focused on a certain characteristic of the NP and how to navigate it in general. Unlike a LD, where I always find a lesson due to this real time life of my mine. My LDs seem to be about forgiveness and different kind of life problems. Whereas my NP experiences due to Phasing/OBEs are more of what to do "there" and how to help. This is the main difference I find between LDs and APs.
 
                2011
 -early 2011 I have a 3 extraordinary back to back to back nights of waking in full SP, but no awareness of what occurring. That was the catalyst for my search for more answers for what happened and why. It couldn't be ignored. About a month later, I found the Astral Pulse Forum.
 -my first actual projection, true OBE comes after watching a candle staring video.
 -I purchase a paid, expensive Astral Program by Steve Jones, I do it to show myself level of commitment. I then buy Bin beats form Brain Sync to use as well. My entire technique focuses on climbing out of the body.
 -success here, failure there. Need to slow down.
- I then read Frank's post and decide I want to try Phasing.
-I start heavy doses of Tom Campbell, William Bulman and other Astral related youtube videos
-first block, 2 weeks of inaction. Too much flitting around. Too much information confusing me.
 -get back to basics again, keeping it simple, Charlie, my Guide shows up and teaches me for about 2 weeks in Phase sessions. Lots of lessons, first being "Need to walk before I can run". Next "do not rush, do not try, do" and then "JUST OBSERVE". All these to calm a overanxious mind
 -first indication of physical "perks" of this practice. Colors seem brighter, overall improved perception here in the physical realm
 -block 2, lasts about 3 weeks. This one is due to insubordination, not following the "rules". I was told not to share a adventure I had and I chose to ignore the warning. For 3 weeks after that I couldn't access anything.
-finally get back and next lesson is on depth perception and controlling emotional response
 -I make a mental intent to help others here and there
 -enter Retrievals

 All that time my technique of Phasing was the same. I used a "Cherry pit pillow" as a blindfold and used Binaural Beats. Many times the Bin beats were the ones that came with my paid program. They are very good.
 I also focused every time on my "Happy Place", which is my Tropical Paradise, akin to Astral Island here on the Astral Pulse.
 As you see, my session normally resulted in some kind of lesson/teaching or guidance. Blocks were overcome.
 All that time to I constantly listened to videos, read books, but just to peruse what techniques and info was being shared and spoke about. Frank's posts really was the wake up call though.
 The only times I didn't actively practice was during my shows where I was on the road traveling.
 I also wrote this post here on the "Astral School", I seemed to keep experiencing.
  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_projection_experiences/astral_school-t34301.0.html
  
           2012
 -began with being stuck in the 3D darkness for about 3 weeks. End of first week, hate it, boring. End of second week, Hmm, it's not so bad. End of third week I love the 3D darkness void area. Great place for peace and quietness. Great place to just "be".
 - At the end of January I make a physical written "contract" stating my AP intent and sign it.
 -told to drop tools for awhile, no blindfold, no Bin beats. This caused a lot of flitting around. Loss of focus
 -many pages of successes. no blocks
 -in November I see the visual of my impending Mall Store dilemma
 -in December I have my longest "outing". Physical duration being 2 hours and 15 minutes long.

 Early in 2012 I did a ton of exploring. Not techniques, more of what I would do when I found myself "there".
 I became a Moderator on the Astral Pulse as well. So I was constantly focused on Astral Travel all the time. Still watching videos and reading AP related books and threads on Astral Forums.
 Began experimenting with Light/Sound machine and tools of the trade.
 Lots of unique experiences especially in the physical like taking a shower, closing my eyes and seeing I am instantly in some kind of peculiar  scenario.
 Lucid Dreams getting really vivid and occurring almost nightly.

          2013
 -filled with Retrievals, almost a whole Journal on just Retrievals.
 No blocks, no change in technique. Other than incorporating move of a motion into my practice. Enter "Phantom Wiggling".
 I learned of Kurt Leland and his work as well and could agree with most of his views. His video on the life of Annie Besant was priceless. She described the characteristics of people that practice NP exploration. If you haven't watched it, you should. You could see what "grouping" you fall into and why.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA12Xd3Zq0I
 
        2014
- I received a new Light/Sound machine for Christmas 2013. I used it and soon after noticed a severe eye problem. Found out later it was Trigeminal Neuralgia. That stopped any attempts for months. It also taught me Tibetan Dream Yoga. Nights on end with not losing consciousness.
 -Moderator burn out kicks in and I quit the Astral pulse for a year. I keep in touch with some good friends here though via email.
 

       2015
 Decided to continue Astral Projection, but needed to find a new way to do it. Enter my "Doorway' technique. I needed to find a way to focus with out using my eyes. Message I received was I need to learn to focus on "unfocusing" to focus. In other words, I needed to learn to use my "mind's eye", not my physical ones, right off the get go.

 MJ was also diagnosed with Cancer in 2015. I was "quarantined" from any projections for about 3 months. They knew what my intent would be. During that time, I was told that this is her decision and that she has to decide whether to stay/live or leave/transition on. My duty was to be supportive which ever way she chose.
 LDs were still there, but only as long as I had poor awareness and stayed with the Dream narrative. Any diversion caused and instant halt to the Dream.

   2016
Some kind of weird sharp spine pain caused me to start taking baths. Enter my Phase/Soak sessions.

 
 ...and here we are today. All the blocks had a purpose. Once I understood the purpose, the block was broken. I was blocked for insubordination. Blocked to learn another way. Every hurdle self imposed or other, overcome. I understood the block during MJ's cancer situation. My goal was to go to the NP to work on her and help her. But I wasn't allowed to do that.

 Yes the repetition of the practice got boring after awhile. Sometimes that would be the cause of a "block" itself. I was constantly being pushed to go further. When boredom set in, it was time to find another way to make it "new" and fresh again.

 My first experiences were the initial eye openers. They showed me what was possible. Then the challenges set in and "school" had started. For 2 years almost every session yielded a message. Slow down, passively observe, learn to "allow". I listened. I did what I was told, barring that one time I chose to ignore their wishes. I was taught how to navigate my surrounds, I was shown depth perception and also one time I was taken on some kind of train ride that actually gave me a brief introduction of different levels of the Astral. The lowest being the "Badlands" that Szaxx talks about. That seemed to be the area of a Retrievee's personal hell. The highest level being a realm where the light was so brig and intense that I could only handle a couple of seconds before I was overwhelmed.

 I did everything I could to keep my mind active in that field of study. Just last night while typing a reply here on the Astral Pulse, I had a youtube video playing with William Bulman speaking at a conference. I have listened and re listened to Tom Campbell's works for years now. A person really needs determination to do that. Sometimes it takes an hour and half for Tom to answer few questions.  He has such great info. The deeper you get into this practice, the more meaning his words have.

 What I am trying to say is that after awhile, you live this, you become this. That's why it doesn't go away. When the boredom hits, if you can't overcome that, that's the end for now. Another thing that ends it, is when you think you finally know it all. At that point, why should it continue to occur? You already "think" you have all the answers, so the teaching stops. Just when I think I know something, it changes. I stay open to it and a new "pathway" opens.

 My bout with TN should have been the end of my practice. But I knew I could and would overcome it. I don't take the pills anymore. I don't even wear the "glasses" I used to control it. I still have "spikes" occasionally. But in the end, it taught me what I needed to see. My spinal pain also directed me to something new, that being my Phase/soak sessions.

 

 
 
 

 

 
 
 




« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 21:08:28 by Lumaza » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2017, 14:30:14 »

I also think my problem may lie in my not treating regular dreams, as I would a Projection or Lucid dream it is an experience too I guess, but I hold Astral Projection and lucid dreaming in high regard, and I hold AP Higher than both, cause I thing it will give physical results, like life changing results as apposed to the other two. Take for instance the whole reason I want to project is to do this one thing that I hold dear, and that's meeting the higher self thru it and merging, and me I think this merger will heed some physical or mental results that will change me, at least that is what i'm hoping for........

But the way I see it, if it doesn't work that way why let me wait so long to achieve a projection, when i'm so attached to this notion, just for it to fail and not be what exactly happens and it breaks me forever, send me in a deeper depression than I already am, cause I been trying for  year upon years to achieve this. I haven't been out since I came to the conclusion that this was what I wanted to pursue. I don't wanna do anything else on the astral until I accomplish this feat first. where as you can't do any of that with a regular dream, and with a Lucid one, it will give little results that are only temporary

 so in my book

dreams= no results
Lucid dreams= temporary results
AP= realtime longer results= maybe even permanent
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2017, 02:51:15 »

Hey!

So here is a french post about a guy who says that he projects only by relaxing his body and focus on breathing (and making it slower and slower), he even says that he focuses on the sound on the heart beat. At some point he just gets paralysed and he projects... http://www.ld4all.com/fr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338

How is that possible because here we often read about the non physical focus to be able to project and about all the "visualisation" stuff... How is that just by focusing on breathing leads to projection? What is your theory on this? Why there is so much techniques when it is that "easy" lol ?



Thanks for this Superman. I have read the French post that you linked and this triggered in my mind a series of thoughts that I had forgotten.  At the time I experimented with breathing I did not know what OBEs were. I was younger and an avid swimmer. One of my favourite activity was  to hold my breath as long as I could. I did not follow any specific technique but I was doing well...2 3 minutes or more. Once or twice something extraordinary happened. My strategy under water was to forget as much as I could who I was, where I was and... after a short while I would enter a different environment. The vision that I recall was that of a beautiful landscape with trees, road and mountains. But the main thing (in hindsight) was that I felt that I was part of this environment and that nothing else existed.  Since that time (decades ago) I have discovered OBEs through other means (mostly through phasing in the hypnopompic state). None of my experiments ever involved voluntary visualisation. My attitude both under water and in the hypnopompic state has always been to let the non physical visit me. But of course I would not say that active visualisations are not a better method;just that I don't know. smiley 
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2017, 03:52:03 »

I also think my problem may lie in my not treating regular dreams, as I would a Projection or Lucid dream it is an experience too I guess, but I hold Astral Projection and lucid dreaming in high regard, and I hold AP Higher than both, cause I thing it will give physical results, like life changing results as apposed to the other two. Take for instance the whole reason I want to project is to do this one thing that I hold dear, and that's meeting the higher self thru it and merging, and me I think this merger will heed some physical or mental results that will change me, at least that is what i'm hoping for........

The differences between astral projection, dreaming, lucid dreaming etc when it comes to actual life changes, really can be arbitrary at the end of the day. I have had lucid dream experiences that have been far more life changing than astral projection experiences for example. It would probably help to not assume that any one of these experiences holds the answers, you will get more from the others with an open mind.

I'm going to have to take a risk of disillusionment here but I hope it leads to a positive outcome for you. What if there is no higher self? Or what if the higher self is really just you at your best and it isn't all that unfamiliar from what you have already experienced at times in this life? You are creating pain for yourself by thinking that you need this experience to be happy and craving it. Part of the craving is wanting some existing condition to go away. These kinds of pursuits are an endless battle. Take for example lotto winners who's base line happiness is exactly the same as it was 4 weeks after winning. The artist who completes their magnus opum only to feel empty and dissatisfied days later.

Maybe projection and meeting of the higher self or so on does hold some kind of silver bullet to life's problems; most people seem to claim this is not the case and that real progress can only be achieved by doing it yourself. A downloading of understanding some things in the astral may lead to momentary enlightenment but not a permanent solution. I have experienced astral revelations that had no lasting impact and can't be recalled very well upon waking.

Quote
But the way I see it, if it doesn't work that way why let me wait so long to achieve a projection, when i'm so attached to this notion, just for it to fail and not be what exactly happens and it breaks me forever, send me in a deeper depression than I already am, cause I been trying for  year upon years to achieve this. I haven't been out since I came to the conclusion that this was what I wanted to pursue. I don't wanna do anything else on the astral until I accomplish this feat first. where as you can't do any of that with a regular dream, and with a Lucid one, it will give little results that are only temporary

 so in my book

dreams= no results
Lucid dreams= temporary results
AP= realtime longer results= maybe even permanent
My intuition says that you are being denied the experience because it can't deliver the outcome you are seeking. The reality system only permits activity beyond the physical reality sandbox that is probable to have a positive outcome - you pointed out the problem yourself - it won't allow the disillusionment from success, and dissatisfaction at the results, to send you into a deeper depression. Once you give up on the notion that projection is the answer you will be unblocked I think.

The good news is that you aren't alone. We are all suffering the same way. I have experienced the desperation to find some answer to life's misery in astral projection and it isn't completely over yet for me either.

So where is the answer to permanent results? Like Xanth always says, it is here right now in what we do in our physical lives, astral projection isn't that important in this quest imo, that is why it is turned off by default for us - it is why this reality was created in the first place - astral projection wasn't a very useful place for learning permanent results.

Step 1 is to realize that good and bad feelings are just chemicals being governed by the human program and this program is designed to work against you in our current habitat. Step 2 is to realize that whatever you think you do or don't need is probably not going to satisfy for long - there will be a next thing.  Step 3 is to get the good feelings back in ways that are long term such as a sense of purpose in a larger system - making real connections with those that are persistent in your life - and not craving these feelings. This is as far as I have come to understand to date, I am at Step 1 probably.
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2017, 06:40:43 »

Here is a brief 5 year time-line of things I experienced and when.

Thanks for taking the time to write that up. I read it all and I'm sure it will be useful for many of us.

One thing that strikes me is that you seem to have succeeded really early on in the process, which is rare. I think it took me over a year to consciously exit for even 20 seconds. Others I know haven't had any success in over 2 years. You may have a special aptitude for it.

I have started to wonder if the increasing prevalence of attention deficit disorders in the digital generation play a part in the difficulty. I have recently read that this condition is less "mental disorder" and more "default depression" induced by lowered base lines of happiness hormones in the body. It leads us to give up the existing thought, or reality itself, in favor of the next thought with no apparent resistance. Flipping through pictures on Facebook for example conditions us to this disorder.

In the context of phasing, the likes of the island paradise is almost hopeless before the apparent might of attention deficit I have learned. I had a rare opportunity this morning to sleep in and spent a fair amount of time practicing phasing techniques. Mind's eye is a strength of mine but I can only stick phasing scenario for a few moments before unconsciously changing to internal monologue, then catching the mistake and going back to physical awareness before resetting on the phasing.

One thing that remains the ultimate mystery to me is why successful phasing takes so long. Getting completely immersed in a minds eye situation briefly is easy but it lacks the same intensity and _persistence_ as a physical experience; feel the warmth of the sun, feel the sand, the warmth is gone, feel the wind, the sand is gone. The barrier doesn't seem to be fear of shifting to the island, nor disbelief in the fact that we aren't a physical body in essence. Its a physical condition of the brain resisting the process due to an inflexibility in our ability to rapidly shift brain wave states.
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2017, 07:25:57 »

I have started to wonder if the increasing prevalence of attention deficit disorders in the digital generation play a part in the difficulty. I have recently read that this condition is less "mental disorder" and more "default depression" induced by lowered base lines of happiness hormones in the body. It leads us to give up the existing thought, or reality itself, in favor of the next thought with no apparent resistance. Flipping through pictures on Facebook for example conditions us to this disorder.
 
 In the context of phasing, the likes of the island paradise is almost hopeless before the apparent might of attention deficit I have learned
I want to say one thing here Thaomas and this isn't ego talking, this is truth and I don't want to sound pompous or crass. If I began to believe any excuse or reason that I can come up with for not being successful at something, I would never be able to do that something again. That goes especially for this practice. Any "doubt" will knock you out.
 I have been challenged in the last 6 years of my exploration by numerous things. Things that went completely against my belief system, medical issues and emotional rollercoasters as well. But I would never give in. I fought. Every wall made me want it more. Even block made me stronger.

Quote
. I had a rare opportunity this morning to sleep in and spent a fair amount of time practicing phasing techniques. Mind's eye is a strength of mine but I can only stick phasing scenario for a few moments before unconsciously changing to internal monologue, then catching the mistake and going back to physical awareness before resetting on the phasing.
You did nothing wrong there. Phasing, then going back to internal monologue makes no difference, unless of course that makes you start makes you focus on this physical reality here. It's only wrong if "you" think it is.
 The only thing you need to acquire a shift in consciousness is to completely lose your focus on this physical realm here, unless you wish to practice "dual" awareness and then you need to be able to hold a steady even balance to do that

Quote
One thing that remains the ultimate mystery to me is why successful phasing takes so long. Getting completely immersed in a minds eye situation briefly is easy but it lacks the same intensity and _persistence_ as a physical experience; feel the warmth of the sun, feel the sand, the warmth is gone, feel the wind, the sand is gone. The barrier doesn't seem to be fear of shifting to the island, nor disbelief in the fact that we aren't a physical body in essence. Its a physical condition of the brain resisting the process due to an inflexibility in our ability to rapidly shift brain wave states.
I think it takes that long because we make it take that long. We begin the process. Then we play some weird game of yo-yo between our current NP focus and our waking conscious mind. That game keeps going until we find ourselves too tired to play anymore. Then the shift occurs. In other words, once you give up fighting it, the shift occurs naturally.
 Ask yourself this. How long does it take to shut off your mind when you go to sleep. You put your head down and 5-10 minutes later your gone. You have programmed yourself all your life to do that. Well acquiring a totally consciously aware shift takes the same "programming'.

 When I first had problems with my TN, I couldn't close my eyes normally and fall to sleep. My TN caused my left eye nerve to spasm violently when I closed it. It was okay while it was open, as long as the lights around me weren't too bright.
 This is what taught me what I call the Tibetan Dream Yoga. I stayed aware fully into the entire Dreaming cycle. Some nights, I stayed aware for 2-3, sometimes up to 8 hours. I saw the different Dreams I had and the completely different "stages" of Dreams as well. Luckily, my body still received it's rest though.

 When I used to Phase I had 3 things I focused on. At that time, I wanted to know more about the NP. I would begin with my focus on my Happy Place. If that didn't create a surge. I would change to my focus on the "Training zone". I would visualize the wooden sign "Training Zone", (just like I do now with Doorways) and start walking in the wooded area I always found myself in. After awhile, I would use my "Spinning Top" visual. That was akin to what Leonardo DiCaprio did to check which reality he was in, in the movie "Inception". I would look at the to to see if I was seeing a "flat on" view or a 3D view of the spinning top. If it was 3D, I knew I was deep and that the shift was almost there. I then "allowed" it to commence.

 Today, I don't need those things. Once in awhile I will shoot some hoops, row a boat, etc. just to get some motion going. Then I sit back and notice or if that visual of rowing began to take on a life of it's own, I would allow the scenario to form, then join it. Now it takes anywhere from 10 minutes - 30 minutes before the shift occurs, depending on my mood, pain level, etc.. Not always are you going to just be able to shut everything off. The bath water is very good for relaxation though. That seems to speed everything up. But when I talk about "Entrainment", just closing my eyes while lying in the water, puts me in the zone. That daily "brain entrainment" really pays off. That's why I am such a fan on repetition.

 When I used my Happy Place visual, I would start by lying on the each and first grabbing a handful of sand or attempt to smell the ocean or hear the waves. From there I would then turn my head left and right and look at my surroundings. There was normally something out of place there and that became my target of interest or focus. I always let my curiosity take me deeper.
 When I read my Journals yesterday, I saw that that is where my "Guide" Charlie showed up too and most of my first successful APs occurred on that "Island" as well. If I needed to see something else, the scene would change and I would find myself elsewhere, like in some kind of "school"/learning situation.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 07:38:11 by ThaomasOfGrey » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2017, 09:01:44 »

I want to say one thing here Thaomas and this isn't ego talking, this is truth and I don't want to sound pompous or crass. If I began to believe any excuse or reason that I can come up with for not being successful at something, I would never be able to do that something again. That goes especially for this practice. Any "doubt" will knock you out.
My philosophy is Win or Learn. I use the term apparent might not to wallow in excuses but rather to understand the enemy and illustrate it for the benefit of other readers. It's also a talent though, ADD has actually allowed me to experience precognition a few times. It is a powerful weapon but uncontrollable for me at this point. The point about doubt is received, I think that is important.

Quote
You did nothing wrong there. Phasing, then going back to internal monologue makes no difference, unless of course that makes you start makes you focus on this physical reality here. It's only wrong if "you" think it is.
 The only thing you need to acquire a shift in consciousness is to completely lose your focus on this physical realm here, unless you wish to practice "dual" awareness and then you need to be able to hold a steady even balance to do that
Are you sure that is all it takes? I feel like losing focus on the physical reality is easy, it happens to me spontaneously many times a day even. Its a different experience to the OBE, more like complete sensory deprivation from all realities. I'll even admit to one drug experience that created a stronger "thought train" experience - but it still wouldn't convert to an OBE despite total sensory deprivation. Some authors labor on the necessity of achieving mind awake body asleep. Some of my spontaneous OBEs have come from passing out due to yogic breathing routines as evidence. Is your experience that you are definitely going into a fully blown OBE without being asleep?

Quote
I think it takes that long because we make it take that long. We begin the process. Then we play some weird game of yo-yo between our current NP focus and our waking conscious mind. That game keeps going until we find ourselves too tired to play anymore. Then the shift occurs. In other words, once you give up fighting it, the shift occurs naturally.
 Ask yourself this. How long does it take to shut off your mind when you go to sleep. You put your head down and 5-10 minutes later your gone. You have programmed yourself all your life to do that. Well acquiring a totally consciously aware shift takes the same "programming'.

Hmm, this adds evidence to my suspicion that the "beta" waves of our conscious thoughts can prevent the "gamma" state necessary for a full shift. Maybe it literally is the sleeping process rather than our actively making the process take longer. I say that because we don't necessarily resist going to sleep but it still takes a while for the brain to physically calm. I have never heard of anyone switch flipping into an OBE or going to sleep excluding rare events like near death experience.

Quote
Today, I don't need those things. Once in awhile I will shoot some hoops, row a boat, etc. just to get some motion going. Then I sit back and notice or if that visual of rowing began to take on a life of it's own, I would allow the scenario to form, then join it. Now it takes anywhere from 10 minutes - 30 minutes before the shift occurs, depending on my mood, pain level, etc.. Not always are you going to just be able to shut everything off. The bath water is very good for relaxation though. That seems to speed everything up. But when I talk about "Entrainment", just closing my eyes while lying in the water, puts me in the zone. That daily "brain entrainment" really pays off. That's why I am such a fan on repetition.

 When I used my Happy Place visual, I would start by lying on the each and first grabbing a handful of sand or attempt to smell the ocean or hear the waves. From there I would then turn my head left and right and look at my surroundings. There was normally something out of place there and that became my target of interest or focus. I always let my curiosity take me deeper.
 When I read my Journals yesterday, I saw that that is where my "Guide" Charlie showed up too and most of my first successful APs occurred on that "Island" as well. If I needed to see something else, the scene would change and I would find myself elsewhere, like in some kind of "school"/learning situation.

10-30 minutes is an insanely long time to maintain a visualization. Is this really such a long simulation or is it more like 10-30 second bursts with rests and distraction interludes? I have witnessed a scenario take on a life of its own a handful of times that were somewhat out of the blue, all of them involved falling asleep once again. My other visualizations always have to be desperately maintained for some reason.
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2017, 16:41:06 »

I was under the notion that Ap was suppose to be able to help you bring your desires to fruition, even if its, not of a real event/thing, even if what it is i'm trying to achieve happens as a placebo effect i'll take it, placebo effects help bring things out of you, that was already there, so me experiencing it as that astrally, would even be satisfying, I want to do it so that I can be satisfied in saying I did it, and maybe get a result, if it don't heed the results I want, I can at least say I tried, I don't think I can just let it go cause I been chasing for so long, I want to do it so I can just move on, I want to complete something in my pathetic life. Heck if people can create beings, out of fear astrally, why can't I get this created, even if it's not real, most of those beings aren't real but they are created.

Also i'm sure that my higher self probably is just  me at my best, I would still be satisfied with it, because its me being all the things I ever wanted to be or accomplish, to tell the truth I wouldn't even want to be on the bad side of that me, everything I ever thought of being and wanted to be is that me, and just to give a example of what that me would be like, a hero, psychic, teleporter, telepathic, telekinesis, do I need to go on, and that is just some of the stuff I suspect that me would be, again I would be satisfied even if its done as a placebo effect  maybe it will stir something within me lol. I know this is all wishful thinking.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 16:47:52 by Bloodshadow » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2017, 18:33:15 »

Are you sure that is all it takes? I feel like losing focus on the physical reality is easy, it happens to me spontaneously many times a day even. Its a different experience to the OBE, more like complete sensory deprivation from all realities. I'll even admit to one drug experience that created a stronger "thought train" experience - but it still wouldn't convert to an OBE despite total sensory deprivation. Some authors labor on the necessity of achieving mind awake body asleep. Some of my spontaneous OBEs have come from passing out due to yogic breathing routines as evidence. Is your experience that you are definitely going into a fully blown OBE without being asleep?
The first thing I ever tried was the "Candle burning technique and I followed that to the letter. The time limit put on the exercise was necessary. You stared at the candle and just the candle for the recommended 15-20 minutes. Then you closed your eyes imprint there. When it faded, you willed it back. That powerful "NP" focus started the shift in motion. If you didn't put in the time necessary or did it half "as s", you didn't get the full experience. There was no shortcuts.

 Tom Campbell spoke of starting slow, as in you could only hold your focus on something for a couple of seconds. But with practice that improved and pretty soon I learned how to "lock" on to things. Yes, a session would begin with trying some imagery, having it fade, bringing it back, having it fade, bringing it back, but all of sudden I would find myself somewhere experiencing some kind of lesson. There would be a guide or I would just be undergoing some kind of test, while being watched. I always had that feeling that someone was around.

 I then began using Binaural beats along with my "Happy Place" imagery and found success with that as well. I then became a real explorer and started trying all different things. I used visual "Anchors". But most of my success came after reading Robert Bruce's "NEW" technique. I began using that energy manipulation often. At first it was just as his method was meant for, the act of moving energy sensations around the body. I then keyed on my "etheric side". I would sit by my window in my home, close my eyes and try to reach out for my tree that was about 50 ft away. I would try to touch a door knob etherically before my actual physical hand did. These "disassociation" practice really paid off.
 
 That lead to the "Phantom Wiggle" and the onset of motion based techniques. Shooting a basketball, playing ping pong, watching a yo-yo, throwing a Frisbee. These repetitive practices soon took on a life of their own. When they did, I "allowed" the scene to commence as it wished to. I just watched by "passively observing", until I felt it was time to become part of the scene as well.

 I experimented every day. I had quite a bit success with my Laxman as well. It almost instantly put me into the zone. But it was short lived.

 I then began focusing on creating techniques that would be easy for new people to follow. That's where the "Doorway" came in.  It was totally based on "Visual Association". Just the thought of a simple geometric shape can get visuals going. Round/Apple, square/house, easy stuff. Color worked the same way. Then I saw, motion did as well. Forward/Driving. left/right would be swaying or veering, backwards/depth. Once again, all easy things to do. I found that by focusing on these things, having them fade and bringing them back, that sooner or later a entire scene would appear and soon you would be in that scene. If you needed to see something else, the scenario would change to that new circumstance, guidance or lesson.

Quote
Hmm, this adds evidence to my suspicion that the "beta" waves of our conscious thoughts can prevent the "gamma" state necessary for a full shift. Maybe it literally is the sleeping process rather than our actively making the process take longer. I say that because we don't necessarily resist going to sleep but it still takes a while for the brain to physically calm. I have never heard of anyone switch flipping into an OBE or going to sleep excluding rare events like near death experience.
During my practice with my Light/Sound machine, I found that there somehow the pineal gland was getting activated and releasing "DMT". It was so easy to get into the "zone" while using it. But, like I said, the experience was short-lived. Once the machines time elapsed, I found my focus return to the physical again. Just enough to have me start the whole focus over again. I then changed to using it as a "Primer" for a session.

Quote
10-30 minutes is an insanely long time to maintain a visualization. Is this really such a long simulation or is it more like 10-30 second bursts with rests and distraction interludes? I have witnessed a scenario take on a life of its own a handful of times that were somewhat out of the blue, all of them involved falling asleep once again. My other visualizations always have to be desperately maintained for some reason.
10-30 minute is the time it took to have the visual scene morph, take on it's own life. The time is took for me to be fully in the "zone". Like I said, in the beginning there was quite a bit of "flitting" around. 10 seconds was a eternity. But that soon changed with further practice. There was no need for full body separation though. That became apparent once I was shown the freedom that just being a point of consciousness had.
 That lesson came to me in spontaneously as well. I would be focusing on something, then all of a sudden I would see some kind of "Pac-Man" like creature eating my body away, starting at my toes. I then started the practice of visually "unzipping" my Human suit. All these things drove home the point that I was just a point of consciousness there and when I did, I began visiting some very unusual and bizarre realms and circumstances.

 Rome wasn't built in a day and I knew that. Some things in life you can't rush. I would love to learn how to play Guitar in a day as well. But that's not going to happen. It takes commitment and dedication to learn how to play a new instrument. Think of Astral Projection as that "instrument".

 What it basically comes down to is "if you really, truly have the will, there is a way".

 All the time I was practicing I was still having and still have today spontaneous OBEs during SP. Sometimes I get 2-3 a month. At times it was 1 or 2 a week. LDs, almost every night now.

 Like I said above. LDs are about working on me in the physical in some shape or form. They are based on resolving old problems, healing, there is quite a few "Hero" scenarios, which could also be Retrievals as well. The past, present and future. I balance my awareness in them, so that I don't overpower the experience with my physical mindset. I always stay in the "narrative" I find myself in and see it for what it has to show to me.

 My APs and OBEs though always have to do with some kind of lesson on navigating the realm I find myself in, Retrievals and being introduced to new realms and new circumstances. They are always focused on "there". These seem more based on "exploration".

 That would be the major difference I find between LDs and AP/OBEs. It's an entirely different conscious mindset.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 18:36:14 by Lumaza » Logged

Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere."
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2017, 18:44:26 »

I was under the notion that Ap was suppose to be able to help you bring your desires to fruition, even if its, not of a real event/thing, even if what it is i'm trying to achieve happens as a placebo effect i'll take it, placebo effects help bring things out of you, that was already there, so me experiencing it as that astrally, would even be satisfying, I want to do it so that I can be satisfied in saying I did it, and maybe get a result, if it don't heed the results I want, I can at least say I tried, I don't think I can just let it go cause I been chasing for so long, I want to do it so I can just move on, I want to complete something in my pathetic life. Heck if people can create beings, out of fear astrally, why can't I get this created, even if it's not real, most of those beings aren't real but they are created.

Also i'm sure that my higher self probably is just  me at my best, I would still be satisfied with it, because its me being all the things I ever wanted to be or accomplish, to tell the truth I wouldn't even want to be on the bad side of that me, everything I ever thought of being and wanted to be is that me, and just to give a example of what that me would be like, a hero, psychic, teleporter, telepathic, telekinesis, do I need to go on, and that is just some of the stuff I suspect that me would be, again I would be satisfied even if its done as a placebo effect  maybe it will stir something within me lol. I know this is all wishful thinking.
For now you need to lose all those expectations and just begin "experiencing" it itself. Allow it to teach you what it wishes for now. You can ask questions later. Just try to get the "lay of the land" per se. In other words, get your feet your wet.

 You may find that when you lose your expectations, you will also lose the pressure you are putting on this to work. By losing or loosening the pressure, you may release your "block" as well.
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Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere."
                  Albert Einstein

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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2017, 21:37:13 »

 First off. Superman, I apologize for Hi-jacking your thread. But I know you like to read stuff like this too and it may be helpful for you as well!  smiley
 It is keeping your thread "fresh" as well, so more people are getting to appreciate your above link that you shared here.

 I just finished my Phase/soak session and in it was shown something from my past, that made me feel oh so old, lol. I was shown a exercise/technique to do for an entire week. But for some reason, I am almost sure, I was shown it to have you try it Thaomas.

 We will call this practice "Paddle to the Sea". The premise and reason it made me feel old is that I had watched this short film in School as a young lad. I don't remember much of my past, so I was shocked that the "Paddle to Sea" theme would come up to me. Here's a short quip on that film. https://www.nfb.ca/film/paddle_to_the_sea/
 I don't want you to go watch the film though. That would cause you to have prior expectations.
 Now to the exercise. The duration of the exercise for now is one week. Every day you will do a sit down for at least 30 minute session and on top of that, whenever you find a spar moment during the day, I want you to take a few seconds/minutes to do some quick "searching". Periodically that is.

 The exercise starts with your closed eyes. You will do what ever it takes to get relaxed first, then just put in about 10 minutes of "noticing" in he darkness before your eyes.
 When you feel "depth" approaching, I want you to mentally walk down that road ahead of you until you get to that bridge. Don't look for the road, just know it's there. This is where you will either get a quick visual or feel your first "etheric" movement. When you get to the bridge ahead, reach down and release that toy boat beside you into the flowing water. The boat can be a replica Canoe, Sailboat, Ocean-liner, Battleship, it doesn't matter right now. Don't choose the "Titanic/Poseidon" or any other failed ship, lol.  Watch it take off.

 Now you are going to just observe. Visually/mentally follow it wherever it goes. Don't lead it. I won't give you any examples or ideas of destination because once again, that would cause "expectations". Stay with it. When it fades, bring it back. If you can't see it, feel it or hear it's path or smell the air around it, feel the motion of it. Stay at least 20 feet behind it though. You are pure conscious energy at this point, so you can go anywhere it can and more. It's kind of like a "pace car" scenario where you start feeling the bends and curves of the path ahead.

 If at any time something else starts to happen, a new morphed scene, allow that new focus to take over and lock on to that new target.

 Whenever you get a chance during the day, "briefly" close your eyes and see what your ship/vessel is doing. Do it often. This entire practice is all about "repetition" and "entrainment". It can be like a new version of "Where's Waldo", lol. You don't need to put time into these little peeks.

 The next day when you go to do your 30 minute session, you don't need to start from the beginning of the scenario again. Get relaxed, in the zone, then see if you can see where your ship is and what it's doing. Follow it for awhile, through whatever environment you find it in. Be aware of your other senses as well. When it fades, bring it back.

 I guarantee you "something" will happen. Don't stop doing it until the entire week is done. It doesn't matter how bad your ability to visualize or sense in the NP is. You will have a "experience".

 You can Journal the entire process or keep "foot-notes", just so you can chart your results, during your new "exploration.

 Years ago, I followed David Warner's by logging everything in my "progress" book. I had stats like what food I ate, even what the weather was like. I wanted to find out if the physical body or physical elements had any bearings on my practice.
 I already knew the about the easy things, like drinking lots of water before bed was great for a "OBE" attempt. It would wake me up at that "sweet spot", whereas I was just beginning the Dream cycle and was already completely relaxed.
 Eating before sleep was good too. It kept my stomach from rumbling. No too much though. Just a snack sufficed. Weather, the Moon's cycle, didn't really play much into success or failure. Overall mood did though. Sometime you just don't feel into it. That is the good time to abort and try again later. There is no rush.
 In the end though, I didn't see much that made a difference, besides "mood". Mood was the make or break point.

 I will do it too. Any one else is more than welcome as well. We could make a new thread for this if enough people are interested. Group  exercises like this and logging of results of said experiences will help us all to learn and grow together.  smiley
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 22:56:11 by Lumaza » Logged

Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere."
                  Albert Einstein

To be successful with Astral Projection/Non Physical Exploration, your will to succeed must be much stronger than your acceptance of failure!
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« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2017, 01:23:26 »

Alright, I'll accept the mission. My first session will be today, I will open the thread later and begin logging the results.
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