The difference between WILD and Frank's phasing method?

[pmusiaowski]

Hello! The thing that I do not fully understand, although it is probably obvious to the person through experience is what is the difference between WILD and the Frank's phasing imaging method? Can anyone throw some light upon this? Because if Frank writes that he imagines that he is staring into the imagined darkness in the F10 Room (The Hut) and 6 to 10 times this darkness is becoming three-dimensional, what is the difference between Frank's method and WILD if he's imagining it? Being in the hypnagogic state, you can move to any desired scenery, but how do you know that using Frank's method it's an projection and not a WILD? Xanth's method of gazing into the actual darkness behind one's eyelids makes more sense to me because it's abstract and not imagining anything. Of course, maybe WILD is also a real projection, then this makes some sense.

Best regards,
pmusiaowski

[Lumaza]

Being in the hypnagogic state, you can move to any desired scenery, but how do you know that using Frank's method it's an projection and not a WILD?

 Of course, maybe WILD is also a real projection, then this makes some sense.

Good job, you answered your own question!  

  If you are experiencing it, it's "real"! 

[Xanth]

Hello! The thing that I do not fully understand, although it is probably obvious to the person through experience is what is the difference between WILD and the Frank's phasing imaging method? Can anyone throw some light upon this? Because if Frank writes that he imagines that he is staring into the imagined darkness in the F10 Room (The Hut) and 6 to 10 times this darkness is becoming three-dimensional, what is the difference between Frank's method and WILD if he's imagining it? Being in the hypnagogic state, you can move to any desired scenery, but how do you know that using Frank's method it's an projection and not a WILD? Xanth's method of gazing into the actual darkness behind one's eyelids makes more sense to me because it's abstract and not imagining anything. Of course, maybe WILD is also a real projection, then this makes some sense.

You're falling prey to what, probably, 99.9% of people do when they do this... you're missing the trees for the forest and getting stuck on terminology.

The "Noticing Exercise" is share is derived completely from what I've read regarding Frank's Noticing Exercise.  He's not saying "imagine" you're staring at the blackness... he's saying ACTUALLY stare at the blackness.
WILD is simply a method for projecting, just like my / Frank's Noticing Exercise.

They *ALL* lead to the same place: The non-physical.

[Lumaza]

 This might interest you. I know I will be tuning in for it. I love hearing other people's perspectives and the way they interpret their "NP experiences". I don't always agree. But I do keep a open mind while listening to them.

 Here's the header for Tonight's Coast to Coast AM radio show:
 San Francisco-based writer and lecturer, Jennifer Dumpert is the founder of the Oneironauticum, an international organization that explores the phenomenological experience of dreams as a means of experimenting with mind. She'll discuss her techniques for surfing the edges of consciousness using hypnagogic and hypnopompic dream states as well as the science of dreaming. First-half, TBA.

 Here's a link to her website. You will find her description of what she calls "Liminal Dreaming".
 http://www.liminaldreaming.com/
 
 

[Lumaza]

 For anyone interested in, she had basically "relabeled" Astral Projection itself in her own way. She chose the term "Liminal Dreaming".

 She kind of gave credit to the Pioneers of Astral Travel. She made a comment that Robert Monroe used a technique that "she" created. I see that as being the other way around though. I think she was getting a bit confused there. She was likely nervous by the interview itself.

 Her technique is based on "noticing". That's basically it. You are either staying conscious while going to bed or if you are an "Owl", she calls it, you become consciously aware as you awaken in the moment. She did specify that this is not "Lucid Dreaming". She categorizes LDs as occurring deep into the REM process and because of that they don't fall under the same name as Luminal Dreaming does.   I said that a lot during her talk.  

 She has done quite a bit of research and her book does sound interesting for that fact alone. She has a name or category for just about everything she talks about. Example, categorizing different types or characteristics of people as Owls. She does that quite a bit. When the hour came for callers to phone in with their questions, she handled the "caller's questions" quite well.

 She did briefly mention Astral Projection and also Sleep Paralysis, where she says, "that's when people wake up to Demons around them, or so they think they do".

 I did find her group to be quite interesting though. They are attempting to "link" experiences together through her group called "The Oneironauticum". Here is a bit of info on them from her website. This next quote is courtesy of "http://urbandreamscape.com/"

 "The Oneironauticum
 
The Oneironauticum is an international dream group that works with oneirogens—any substance, practice, or experience that promotes or enhances dream states. Founded in 2008, the Oneironauticum gathers on a given night to work with the same oneirogen. At least one group gathers together to sleep in the same space, while dreamers from locations around the world join remotely, all using the same oneirogen. Although they may be separated by hundreds or thousands of miles, on the night of Oneironauticum, dreamers are united community, bound by the common experience of the dream.

[Windwalker.]

This might interest you. I know I will be tuning in for it. I love hearing other people's perspectives and the way they interpret their "NP experiences". I don't always agree. But I do keep a open mind while listening to them.

 Here's the header for Tonight's Coast to Coast AM radio show:
 San Francisco-based writer and lecturer, Jennifer Dumpert is the founder of the Oneironauticum, an international organization that explores the phenomenological experience of dreams as a means of experimenting with mind. She'll discuss her techniques for surfing the edges of consciousness using hypnagogic and hypnopompic dream states as well as the science of dreaming. First-half, TBA.

 Here's a link to her website. You will find her description of what she calls "Liminal Dreaming".
 http://www.liminaldreaming.com/
 
 

Thanks for this. Her two techniques are basically what ive always done. You can fight sleep and/or you can fight fully awakening by relaxing as you awaken. With a ramp timer “tuned” to your liking you can have several chances to find that sweet theta spot upon awakening. I have been having bizzare experiences lately. Normally I have inner vibrations but a few times as of late I have been dreaming yet also feeling my physical body vibrate. The exact opposite of when I have an obe. It is strange being in a dream and feeling your physical body vibrate- especially given the dream wasn't lucid. Again...thanks!

[Lumaza]

Normally I have inner vibrations but a few times as of late I have been dreaming yet also feeling my physical body vibrate. The exact opposite of when I have an obe. It is strange being in a dream and feeling your physical body vibrate- especially given the dream wasn't lucid. Again...thanks!

I have found that this practice in general lacks "normalcy. Just when you think you have found or are experiencing a new pattern, "happening" and or occurrence, everything changes again.