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Author Topic: Physics of hemi-sync - fact or good marketing  (Read 10741 times)
jilola
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« on: August 31, 2002, 12:51:11 »

Yep. The effect is called the beat (a term I've come to know this by) and it's definitely physical and not something created by our mind.
They probably wanted to avoid techical terms or the guy who wrote the text wasn't familiar with the stuff and misinterpreted the physics.
I hate that sort of fluffy technical writing. It's easy to check the text and be accurate.
YMMV.

2cents

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ericwat
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2002, 13:38:25 »

quote:
Originally posted by James S:
I have a pretty major beef with the way hemi-sync is being promoted... mainly, how it works. The introductory file downloadable from Monroe's site explains that the vibrato type sound that you hear when two tones are fed into each ear, " is created by you in your mind" (to quote the commentary), and as a result has an effect on parts of the brain


I see what your saying about the different sound waves, but with this cd set, you are supposed to be listening through headphones.  The sound enters each ear seperatly.  A seperate single tone is played in each ear, therefore, the tones are not combined before entering the ear.  Does that make sense?

I'm not sure if that "verbrato" acutally helps anything, but the tones and sounds do help me to focus.  

--Eric

 
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2002, 13:38:25 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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ralphm
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2002, 04:53:05 »

James, what music do you reccommend? My understanding of hemi-sync is what eric said also-the ears are isolated and hear 2 different tones. Does this idea make any sense?

 
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Tom
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2002, 16:14:18 »

This looks like a thread for the new forum. It would be a good thing to revive it. My problem with the hemi-synch stuff is that it always annoys me before it starts working. Instead of guiding me to alpha and theta, I'd guess that it is taking me faster into beta. Then there are times when I just fall asleep using it. So what am I doing wrong? with so many people finding success with it, the method must be at least partially correct. even if the explanation for it is not described correctly. That is something I don't understand either. It says that the sounds are created in the brain. Does that mean that if I put stereo headphones on a nice cabbage it would not create the binaural effect?


 
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James S
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2002, 02:57:58 »

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

Ericwat & Ralphm,
It's not actually the fact that sounds of slightly different frequencies are entering different ears that creates the beat effect. This is what annoys me about the promo for Hemi-sync. As an example:

My first synth was an old Korg. It had two oscillator which could be fine tuned against each other. When you detune one oscillator against the other it is putting the waveforms slightly out of synch with each other. What you get is an effect called phasing (as apart from phasing in & out of the astral smiley ). This will produce that beat effect that you hear.

The Korg had stereo outputs and you could pan the outputs so that each oscillator went to a separate channel. Though I was running stereo out of the synth, my practice amp, and the stage amps I was using were mixing it back to mono. From a mono speaker you could still very clearly hear the phasing, or beat effect, as it is simply the interference pattern of two waveforms slightly out of time. A digital effects pedal for a guitar can do the same thing by taking the output from the guitar, splitting the wave into two identical waves,  then delay one of them slightly to put it out of phase with the other.

This is why I say it is a function of the sound source and not your brain. It is simply an audio interference pattern. You can hear it as clearly with one ear listening to a mono speaker as you can with both ears and headphones.

This is not to dissuade people from using Hemi-sync if it works for them, and if it does, as ericwat says, then great, keep using it. What those interference patterns do to the brain is probably correct.
I just dont like the false scientific theories used to promote it.
Picky, I know, but then I also object to skin cream ads that promote the cream by telling you of ingredients that only a molecular biologist or chemist would understand, and half of which can't be absorbed by the skin anyway.
Right, I'm back off my soap box now.

As to what kind of music I think is good, I've tranced with some very early releases of music by the german electronic band Tangerine Dream. But then I've got very wierd taste in music. I like it because it paints an audio landscape for me that really helps me create images to focus on. I kind of prefer that to noise, but then that's me. Like Tom, I actually find the Hemi-sync sounds really annoying and would much prefer to just hear the drone of my PC fans in the background. Again, that's just me.

And Tom, the idea of headphones on cabbages really made me laugh. The next person to project into the astral, please keep your eyes out for very surprised looking cabbages.

James.



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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2002, 02:57:58 »



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Adrian
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2002, 16:52:57 »

Greetings everyone!

Hope you didn't mind me moving this to this forum.

The concept of hemi-synch as I I understand it, is to feed to frequencies, one in each ear, and the brain then entrains itself by matching the two frequencies to produce a "bineural beat", and therefore expanded consciousness.

My guess is that it is not possible to feed a single alpha, theta or delta level frequency on its own, but hemi-synch causes the brain to generate it of its own accord.

Now whether this whole concept holds water or not is a different matter entirely.

There is no doubting generally the effectiveness of the Gateway products. The question is  - is this due to the hemi-sync technology, the guided state of trance, both or neither?  

I don't profess to know, although I sure would like to arrive at some conclusive answers on this.

The other issue is whether it is good to use these products, or get there by hard work and practice, using the guided trance principles.

At the final analysis, Monroe are doing some valuable work, and I for one appreciate their efforts, nothwithstanding the commercialism.

With best regards,

Adrian.




 
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James S
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2002, 22:38:07 »

Hi Adrian,

No probs moving this topic. Yes it does fit in here better.

Your point about the production of alpha, delta & theta waves is a good one.
This is the ultimate bi-product of the beat effect, and I'm not even going to begin to dispute that, I simply don't know enough about the effect of certain audio frequencies on the brain.

As to the "binaural beat" I can guarentee you with 100% certainty it really is an audio interference pattern created at the sound source, NOT an effect of the brain.

The correct term for this interference pattern is "phasing", where two identical waveforms are slightly out of time with each other resulting in partial cancellation and partial enhancement, which when the two waveforms are added together create cyclic variation the final output waveforms amplitude, creating a pulsation of the sound, or the beat effect. It is a form of amplitude modulation.

The effect is totally reproduceable using mono output. Guitarists have been using digital delays, analog delays and phaser pedals for many years to produce this same effect, and trust me, it can be heard just as well through a stack of Marshal speakers as it can through headphones. Actually at around 14 000 watts you'll probably hear it a little louder through the Marshal's, with the added effect that your ears will also be ringing afterwards smiley

Now having hopefully torn apart this misrepresentation in the marketing of how this sound is made, it is fairly apparent not only from TMI, but from other sources of this research that a phasing waveform of the correct frequency has an effect on the brain, and will lead to a change in state of the brainwaves.

As I've pointed out before, I don't doubt the stuff works. It's just how their telling you it works is wrong, probably as Jilola pointed out earlier because TMI's marketing department don't understand the audio engineering aspect properly. Or it sounds more impressive if they tell you your brain is creating the wave.

Now to put all that aside, Adrian, that's probably a more important point you made in your last comment. Ok for many it works, but is it really beneficial in the long run? After using the Hemi-sync product for a while can you do as well without it afterwards, and is it like steriods for the astral body?

Your daily dose of bad science debunking brough to you by -
James.

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clandestino
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2002, 08:54:42 »

I was a little apprehensive about starting to use the wave 1 exercise that Frank detailed. Reason being, I had read several sources that stated you should avoid using those type of products as they are habit forming....i.e future attempts at projection would only be possible with the help of the CD.

However, I weighed this up against the positive results that Frank has shared...not in the least the fact that his progress has been gained through hard work, not as a result of a special talent.

So I thought , what the hell ! I'll give it a go. If I become an "addict", I'll cross that bridge when i come to it !

 
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Helmut
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2002, 11:35:43 »

Hi everyone,

the original binaural beat effect discovered by some german experimentor, was when two slighly different tones were exposed to each ear, the brain or accustic nervous system created a third tone in the beat fo the frequency difference of the two original beats. A person with one ear deaf will not hear the binaural eats via earphones.This is not a physical phenomena, but entirly neurophysiological, hence created by the brain(mind). Of course you will hear the same beat even with one ear, when the two tones are played together and not via earphone, but this does not devaluate the former statement. The binaural beats created in this way are thought to provoke a FFR frequency-following responce, where the brains rythm tunes in to the frequency of the beat. This is something that has to be learned and not a reflex of course. You can easyly break the pace of the binaural beat by not accepting its me(a)ssage.

By the way, I would like to discuss the frequencies used to reach the differnt focus levels. I have made some frequency research on the beats used and found an( inconsistent ) correlation between the focus level and the higher beat used. For example Focus 10 uses binaural beats of 10hz (alpha). This also holds to some degree for the higher focus levels. There is also a lower frequency to reach the body sleep state, but this is often done with very low beats and pink noise. Did anybody else research on this?

Helmut

 
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James S
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2002, 00:06:58 »

Thanks Helmut, that's a good bit of info.

I see then from what you are saying the waveform can work both ways. I knew the beat effect from the sound source to be a certainty, but the info you've given helps me understand that although the independent frequencies in each ear ammount to the same thing, they have a noted effect on the brain in doing so.

So the whole thing isn't bad science, it's perhaps just not fully explained.

James.

 
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TheJza
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2002, 12:49:22 »

I've known about TMI for a long time, and I have been curious about the binaural beats and FFR for a while, so maybe I can shed some light on things.

First off, James S. may be totally right. If anybody has taken physics, they will know that to waves that hit each other from opposite directions and different frequencies produce a third wave (standing wave).
Maybe that is what we are seeing here, maybe not. In any case, I think you are missing what they are saying. Regardless of whther the third beat is "created" by the mind or created independent of the mind, here is what is going on: The third wave is pusling directly in the brain (because the sound waves are going through your ears, and the half way meeting point should be in the middle of your head). I think James S and TMI would agree with this, regardless of the science behind the origin of the third wave.
Because of the location of that third wave, it kind of coaxes your brain into producing brain waves at that frequency. For meditation purposes, a theta frequency wave produced by the other 2 sound waves would help to put your brain in a theta state meditation. At TMI, they stressed that this is just one tool, and it is not the end all be all do phasing. Your beliefs were another issue. Also, they use a mix of different frequencies, because they found that using just one frequency didnt yield good enough results when compared to a mix of different frequencies.
Also, Adrian, TMI admits that Monroe didn't "create" these Focus levels. He just gave them a name and gave people an easy way (through Hemi-Sync) to access them. They exist with or without Hemi-Sync and can be reached with and without it as well. TMI says that Hemi-Sync helps you reach the levels faster, but it is definitely not impossible to reach them using other methods (traditional meditation, maybe). I hope this helps.

 
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Tom
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2002, 14:59:48 »

What we need is to test people with an EEG. The signal in the left ear produces electrochemical signals which meet with electrochemical signals from the right ear. If the binaural beat is the meeting of the two actual sounds from the left and right ear, then no brain is required. My cabbage can use hemi-synch and get the binaural beat. If it is the interaction of electrochemical signals in the brain which produces the binaural sound that would make it easier for me to accept that the binaural beat is an electrochemical signal originating in the middle of the brain which would then synchronize the hemispheres.


 
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James S
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2002, 12:05:15 »

Hi all,

Would like a few opinions here please...

I've been looking into TMI's hemi-sync. I've read through a lot of posts on this forum about all the good things its done for people, but I'm a little troubled about the "physics" behind it and how it has been marketed.

I can be a skeptic, but to the point that I question the validity of things, not outright disbelieve them. Keep in mind that I have a scientific mind, that has been trained to be analytical and deductive, always looking at the "how it works" side of things, but I also have regular contact with a spirit guide, and acknowledge spiritual experiences that science could never hope to explain.

Ok, to the point -
I have a pretty major beef with the way hemi-sync is being promoted... mainly, how it works. The introductory file downloadable from Monroe's site explains that the vibrato type sound that you hear when two tones are fed into each ear, " is created by you in your mind" (to quote the commentary), and as a result has an effect on parts of the brain. I've been working with sound modelling on synthesisers for some time and know a bit about audio effects. This description is utter rubbish!

The "vibrato" the mind is supposedly creating is two sine waves set slightly off frequency with the oscillators separately panned to left and right channels. The resulting waveform is an interference pattern known as phasing (otherwise identical waveforms out of phase). The speed or rate of phasing can be varied by adjusting the detune between the two oscillators. This phasing effect can be heard through a MONO output from any synthesizer or PC running a soft synth, and the interference pattern in the waveform can be seen on an oscilloscope.
IT IS NOT CREATED BY YOUR MIND!!

Now, as you can see I get really p***ed off when someone is trying to sell something based on BOGUS scientific principals. It puts me off the product.

I can (and have) gone into deep trances by listening to music that could basically be described as repetative but subtley changing fast arpegio sequences. This is because the music gives me a focal point with which I can "tune out".
Does the hemi-sync waveforms really help people get to a particular trance or OBE state by virtue of the effects that the sound interference patterns have on the brain (not MIND, but BRAIN) , or is it just a way of tuning out to your surroundings and helping you to focus???


James S

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