Question about time spent phasing

[travilanche]

I have a question about the time a person can spend phasing.  It says in Michael Raduga's guide that a person can only phase for around 10 minutes.  How is this enough time to do some of the incredible things that people talk about doing, like exploring the RTZ, and deep space and things of that nature.  How does that allow time to search through the Akashic records and other such phenomena?  How does it give you the time to go back and reexperience memories from the past?  It is just a confusingly short amount of time.

While reading Mastering Astral Projection in 90 days by Robert Bruce, he makes it sound like you can astral project for hours on end, and do it anytime you want.  What is it that I'm missing here?

[astraladdict]

-___- Yet another reason why i prefer to NOT read books and just find the answer by experience. When he says you can only phase for 10 min, chances are only HE can phase for 10 min. You can phase as long as you want to. I've phased for hours so many times.

~astraladdict

[Xanth]

Yeah, it's important if you're going to read books to try and not take everything said as gospel.
I can personally guarantee you that you can project for longer than 10 minutes. 

[CFTraveler]

Ditto.
Plus, I think that it depends every day- some days you can be 'out' for a while, other times, not.

[Stookie_]

Yes, it's possible... but I don't find it very easy. The longer you go, the harder it is to maintain awareness and if you click out, there's a good chance you won't remember any of it. That's why it's mostly recommended in the beginning to keep them short and try to wake up and write it down immediately. With practice and experience you can maintain awareness for longer periods of time. Start small.

[CFTraveler]

While reading Mastering Astral Projection in 90 days by Robert Bruce, he makes it sound like you can astral project for hours on end, and do it anytime you want.  What is it that I'm missing here?

Er... please tell me where it says that.

[BlueHalcyon]

Well... You can be out for 10 minutes, and it might feel like 15, 20, half an hour, maybe longer... From what ive heard, atleast.

[travilanche]

Er... please tell me where it says that.

I don't remember where it is exactly.  But I remember a spot where he says he regularly meditates in deep space for hours at a time. 

And it's good to hear alot of people here can phase for lengthy periods of time.  Ten minutes isn't really enough time to watch a pack of velociraptors hunt a hadrosaur.  But I can see the need to keep it short and simple in the beginning. 

[Rudolph]

I have a question about the time a person can spend phasing.  It says in Michael Raduga's guide that a person can only phase for around 10 minutes.  How is this enough time to do some of the incredible things that people talk about doing, like exploring the RTZ, and deep space and things of that nature.  How does that allow time to search through the Akashic records and other such phenomena?  How does it give you the time to go back and reexperience memories from the past?  It is just a confusingly short amount of time.

While reading Mastering Astral Projection in 90 days by Robert Bruce, he makes it sound like you can astral project for hours on end, and do it anytime you want.  What is it that I'm missing here?

I did not finish all of MAP in 90 days but I did read a lot of it and I do not recall him saying that about OBE specifically (but it does make me wonder what his longest OBE might really be). Meditating in deep space for hours at a time is something many can do with a little practice, but that is not the same as OBE imo.

I mentioned here a few days ago on the astral 'time' thread about how Monroe would retell the story of some awesome projection that would seem to require at least an hour and he would return to his body to find that he had been out for about 7 minutes.

Just recently though, I made note of the time as I began an OBE attempt and then experienced three lonnngggg projections in a row with only maybe a minute between the first and second projection and maybe a few minutes between the 2nd and third. Each "seemed" very long and eventful, and I do not recall losing consciousness at any point, and it was over a period of nearly two and a half hours before I got up and started writing it all down...

But, time does both stretch and/or compress in the OBE state for me. And I still consider myself new to intermediate at all this so I won't try to say for certain that my OBEs must have been that long. It sure seems like it though.

I learned a lot from the RB MAP in 90 Days methods and I like the Lucidology youtube lessons. The Raduga obe4u.com free SOBT ebook kicked my success rate up to a whole new level. I highly recommend all of them.

[light487]

One of the other things he says in that book is to never remain "calm and relaxed" within a phase.. that one took me completely by surprise. His reasoning is that if you ever stop to catch your breath, so to speak, that you will lose focus and return to your body. The fact that you should NOT allow yourself to become "calmed" and "relaxed" is completely contrary not only to everything else I have read but also to my own beliefs about phasing. I can kind of understand from a beginner's point of view that you need to have a goal or set of goals to provide intent for your experience and that if you should find yourself "wandering" without a purpose, then the beginner might find themselves back in their body.. that kinda makes sense.. but moving on past that beginner stage.. I think remaining calm, relaxed and unemotional would be key to maintaining the phase for long periods of time. Perhaps it is this misconception of his, that is the cause for his short trips.

[MikeMk]

)))

there is a lot of tests that have proven that you can't lucid/project more than 2 minutes in 99% of all cases

ok, if you can do more, it depends on REM that lasts no more than 15-20 minutes...

Of course, one minute may seem like 30 minutes. It's another topic to discuss.

[Rudolph]

)))

there is a lot of tests that have proven that you can't lucid/project more than 2 minutes in 99% of all cases

ok, if you can do more, it depends on REM that lasts no more than 15-20 minutes...

Of course, one minute may seem like 30 minutes. It's another topic to discuss.

No statistical test has ever proven what "can't" be done. (not possible -- google 'you can't prove a negative' and read up on the statistical type items).

You *can* take a poll and announce that "the survey shows" such n such. But those sort of stories are ridiculously unreliable.

The inseparable link between OBE and REM is something I have my doubts about. I have read references to papers about non-REM OBEs but I have not seen the data.

Brain dead patients regaining consciousness and reporting NDEs were certainly not in REM.

I think the jury is still out on this one.

[Orion-]

)))

there is a lot of tests that have proven that you can't lucid/project more than 2 minutes in 99% of all cases

ok, if you can do more, it depends on REM that lasts no more than 15-20 minutes...

Of course, one minute may seem like 30 minutes. It's another topic to discuss.

These "tests" assume that if the brain says something, this thing is also happening. However, just because the brain isn't in the rem state, that doesn't mean we can't dream/lucid/project.

Another question for you. If my dream lasts 2 minutes in your time, and 30 in my time, how long did it last? There is no time, there is only duration which is highly subjective.

[bluremi]

I think he said the longest phase he'd heard of was 20 minutes long. Since you don't spend any time in the phase doing things like traveling from one place to another, and action follows thought immediately, the rapid sequence of events makes it seem like you are spending much more time than you really are. A 20 minute phase would probably feel like hours.

[Rudolph]

These "tests" assume that if the brain says something, this thing is also happening. However, just because the brain isn't in the rem state, that doesn't mean we can't dream/lucid/project.

Another question for you. If my dream lasts 2 minutes in your time, and 30 in my time, how long did it last? There is no time, there is only duration which is highly subjective.

Actually, without REM, dreaming is not going to be a happening thing. "Dreams" and REM are basically synonymous. If you checked the clock and went immediately into a dream and then checked the clock immediately following the end of the dream and the clock showed 2 minutes had passed, the dream lasted two minutes... regardless of how long the dreamer thought the dream might have lasted.

Being Lucid may not require a physical body and/or brain. But the thing we call a "dream" does. Dreams are artifacts of what can be impressed upon the physical brain and physical awareness. The "physical awareness" can be a very poor representation of what is actually occurring in an extra-physical dimension.

Of course there is "TIME"... without time there would be no duration.