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Author Topic: Retrievals - Aspects of Self - Werewolf & Deformed Man  (Read 8515 times)
Pauli2
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« on: May 23, 2011, 19:14:09 »

This is a post from another forum.

It shows that Pure Unconditional Love (PUL) can help in retrieving Aspects of Self.

It also shows that "Negs" can be parts of yourself and have to be allowed back in.
I post this in response to people with these problems.

======================================================



ASPECT RETRIEVALS - ENERGY WEREWOLF & DEFORMED MAN



These retrievals were probably prepared at least 2 months in advance
by my I-There. First, several other things happened at a much earlier
time, which also involved some sort of Aspect of Self retrievals.

The reason that I at all wrote this down to the forum is the
encouragement I got from someone, as I've had a lot of
disbelief in my own experiences.



--- Part 1 - Preparatory sessions (Aspect retrievals) ---

More than 2 months ago I did some kind of retrievals in a way,
which I haven't read about anywhere else on the net or in any
books. I'd read more than 150 retrieval stories of various kinds,
and as I couldn't find anything that resembled these Aspect
retrievals I doubted them to be real.

At the time, my view of retrievals of Aspect of Self, was that you
meet someone, who is afraid and feel abandoned, usually in the form
of a child. You talk to the child (?) Aspect, send PUL and perhaps
offer the child a toy. Then you pick the Aspect up and merge/melt
together with your Aspect of Self. Well, this was not what happened
to me.

These retrievals of mine didn't fit in anywhere.

Perhaps they were just my vivid fantasy playing tricks on me?

My unusual series of retrievals all started with me finding someone
incarnate, who I knew from real life and who seemed to be happy to
see me. To make long stories short, things developed and I just
shouted out:

"I call all Aspects to <PERSON'S NAME>!"

In a few cases I also called out "myself" as "<PERSON'S NAME>".

Then...

At some occasions I managed to see something that looked like
several "ghost" fly into the incarnate person, and immediately
after, I got very heavy physical chills and goose bumps all over
my physical body in several "energy" waves the started at the legs
or back and spread out all over my physical body to my head. At some
times nothing was seen entering the incarnate, but I still got the
chills running up or down my physical body after having shouted
out my request. This could last for minutes with short pauses in
between, as I repeated my non-physical shoutings with request for
Aspect to arrive. When no more chills or goose bumps were felt, or
I got the feeling I had reached a stop, I also stopped my mental
shouting for Aspects.

I was very puzzled, as this meeting-incarnate-friends-calling-for-Aspects
happened over a sequence of several days. I was wondering what on Earth I
did wrong as I couldn't get normal retrievals of Aspects of Self as I did
in the beginning when I started with retrievals. I even put out some
questions on other forums to see if someone could explain to me what
I had experienced.

These retrievals occurred over a week, about 6 times.


The next peculiar thing that happened was a retrieval of an Aspect of Self,
of my own self. I figured out that I was in an astral Sevastopol,
the town at Krim in Ukraine.

To make the long story short:

I entered a basement and pulled out some Black Tar that completely
covered all the walls of the room. It was clear to me that it wasn't
anything I could remove by Seeing-It-Not-There. The Black Tar moved,
scared and "attacked" me. It was clearly a living entity. I absorbed
everything of the Black Tar into me as I guessed it was an Aspect of Self.

The Sevastopol retrieval was probably my most scary retrieval of all
I've done. I felt fear for several days after, a fear which slowly
dissipated.

The only nice thing with the Sevastopol retrieval was at the end when
I got a big hug from a figure that looked exactly like Frankenstein's
Monster, complete with its metal rod through its head. It was a very
kind Frankenstein's Monster, either a thought form or a guide in
disguise.

So..

The scene was set.

But 2 months would pass.

My retrievals of incarnates' Aspects of Selves and the Sevastopol
retrieval may have been some kind of preparation for things to
come.


--- Part 2 - Adjustment session ---

After having retrieved Jesiah I got to see a guide with name Markill.
I tried twice (two different sessions) to figure out what he wanted
me to do, but had no go.

The third day I went to the dome where "Tom Hanks" used to stand.
I couldn't find him. Instead I got to the lawn where Markill was
standing. Good! Now I would get some answers, I thought.

But no.

This sessions was kind of confusing and I was disappointed at my
poor perception the whole time. I made very few notes afterwards
as I both forgot the sequence of events and assumed that noting
important had happened.

Most of what happened was that I seemed to shift to various places,
rooms, outdoor scenes, where I spun around. Sometimes guides or even
incarnates (or their Total Selves/subconsciousness (?)) spun around me.
A short while I even seemed to revisit TMI-There and was inside the
crystal, there were other people there, but the only reason I was there
was because someone could do a minor adjustment to me at the place.

Finally I was back at the lawn with Markill.

He put his hand in my chest. I've been there before. I just have to
stand still as something happens to a non-physical part of myself.

I started to spin on the lawn and Markill started spinning even faster
around me. Then the french theatre woman, with her black hair and red
lips emerged. She also spun around me and put her hand in my head,
at the back of my head.

Eventually Markill put the length of his arm into me, vertically and
spun around. I could only conclude that it was some kind of adjustment,
unknown purpose or function to me.

I felt some energy rushes and some chills going up or down my back.

Then the session ended. I had a little headache.


--- Part 3 - The Werewolf session (long) ---

This session I decided to go to Markill, and perhaps get some answers
and an explanation to his presence. Markill usually stands on a lawn
in a British setting, sometimes in front of a small fence and I've been
able to spot a large Manor in the background. The lawn Markill stands on
is located at a totally different place then the lawn in front of the
dome where I usually find Tom Hanks.

I didn't find Markill, and the lawn I was standing on was Tom H's lawn,
as I saw Tom H and the huge dome behind him.

Nevertheless, I could ask Tom Hanks my question. I asked him if he could
take me to my Total Self. I didn't get a yes or no as I remember it.

Tom Hanks took me into the dome. It was a gray light inside and I saw
the brown marble floor, which I've seen on other occasions. In the far
distance of the interior I could spot a few marble columns.

Then strangely enough I was standing in front of a drapery. The dome's
huge hall seemed gone. We were in a smaller room. Tom Hanks wanted me
to enter the drapery as he moved some part of it away for me. I tried
to go past the drapery, but I saw nothing beyond the drapery. I guessed
that it was en entry for me to travel somewhere and I tried to throw
myself into whatever void there was before me. I could see nothing and
failed to travel anything but a short distance.

I decided to go back. I left the dome and went outside to the lawn. I
asked Tom Hanks what the dome was, and he said it was an entrance to
various places, which he knew I already had guessed.

I was pretty sure I had failed with something as I didn't manage to
perceive what was behind the curtain/drapery.

Something urged me to take a good look at Tom Hanks as he was standing
in front of me. He looked even more of an evil CIA agent, or rather
like the men-in-black agents of the Matrix movies.

Tom Hanks face twisted into a brutal grimace. He grabbed my chest with
both his hands, and very brutally pulled my skin and various internal
parts of me out of my body. It was done with raw brute force. Some part
of my body was left behind me, and I quickly lost connection to that
part of myself. If you've seen Silent Hill, where the demon first rips
the clothes of a woman and then rips her skin off her body, you get the
impression of what it felt to me. It was quite a shock.

For several seconds Tom Hanks pulled and pulled in what was left of me
as he flew higher and higher into space (?).

He looked like a scary brute. And I was a little scared too, but
decided that this was something I should just accept and follow
along with. Being ripped apart by Tom Hanks, was not what I liked.

It was clear as we moved and as I could see his face, that he used his
utmost force to get me moving. It was probably close to what he mustered.

After 10-15 seconds he stopped pulling me and we arrived through some
door (?) into a very long building, which felt like a Transit Hall,
at a very big and modern air port.

The building had the shape of a triangle with its walls bent outwards.
And the "triangle" shape was kind of elongated, so I in fact stood in
a very long building, where the farther end disappeared in the distance.

The left side of the building had an opaque white wall and on the floor
of the left side I felt some kind of small formations, like small houses.

To the right, the roof was mostly made of glass and a lot of light
entered the glass keeping the building well lit, like filled with
sun light.

There were lots of people in the Transit Hall. But I couldn't see any
of them clearly. All the people seemed to be of some kind of higher
spirits and rather neutral with minor leakage of love from random
places.

I was disturbed that my impression was so poor and that I couldn't
see anyone clearly. Some time ago a tall guy with the name William
had taken me for a walk in a park. I remembered that I had made a full
turn in the park and been able to see bushes, trees, lawns, pathways
and a big low building behind us (but no humans).

I tried to do the same turn in this Transit Hall.

I turned a full 360 degrees, to figure out what I could perceive.
I noticed that Tom Hanks was standing behind me, waiting. My view
didn't improve much, even if I managed to get the feeling that the
small indoor buildings to my left could be some kind of simple libraries?
For a moment I wondered if the Transit Hall was some kind of impression
I got of my Total Self, but doubted the idea as it seemed so many
people just was passing through.

I again faced the depth of the Transit Hall.

Uhh...

A Dark Being was standing 20 feet away, facing me. It didn't seem to belong
here. The Dark Being was scary as hell. I kept my calm, but didn't like
the situation. The Dark Being had black fur, claws and predator teeth,
and the air of hostility and its presence was just bad and wrong, wrong.
Totally wrong.

The Dark Being didn't belong in the Transit Hall among all the higher
beings. I could feel it was out of place. How on earth could such a
foul creature enter here?!?

The Dark being was much bigger than me, it started to move around me
in circles. I would have difficulties avoiding it. Could it be an
Aspect of Self, that I needed to integrate into me? Tom Hanks didn't
interfere. I had to cope with the situation myself. I could see the
door behind Tom Hanks, but at the same time got a tiny feeling that
he wouldn't allow me to exit.

The Dark Being now was moving around me as it grew, and looked even
more disgusting. The strange thing was that it didn't feel particular
threatning anymore. It was just big, foul and hairy like a werwolf.

As the Dark Being moved around me, I offered it to enter me. After all
it could be an Aspect that had gone lost in F 27.

The Dark Being started to transform into something much scarier and
terrible. Lots of claws, needles, sharp points, jaws, fangs and unnatural
forms not belonging to any earthly being. I was intensely affected by
the monster Dark Being. I let go of my fear and I immediately felt
that it was not evil or against me.
The Dark Being flooded into me. I got tons of chills and energy surges
up and down my back, legs and body. The amount of chills was enormous,
something I've only felt a few times before (once at the TMI-There
crystal). I realized the Dark Being wasn't anything evil, it was just...
a monster.

And then I started to transform. It happened very quickly.

I became a werewolf, complete with ears, teeth, paws and fur, lots of
fur. I didn't at all look like my childhoods nice cartoon werewolfs, who
looked much more like decent humans. I looked like a wolf standing on its
back legs. I had no fingers, just dog feet!

I moved my werewolf head side-to-side. There still were people around me,
but they seemed to ignore me and keep some distance to me.

Oh my, if the purpose of this travel was to meet my Total Self, I didn't
want to look like a werewolf. How should I explain my appearence?
"I just meet a foul creature in your Transit Hall and I offered it to
enter me. You see, this was what happened..."

Did I feel afraid before or during the Dark Being entered me? Yes, a little,
but nothing compared to my Sevastopol retrieval of the Black Tar Aspect.

Most of my fear had gone. Instead I felt silly.

I tried hard to turn back into my human shape, but failed several times.
Could this be right? I've never heard about anyone go to F 27 and then
turn into another animal, and certainly not a monster. Will anyone
believe me? Maybe I will seem stupid if I tell others about this
transformation?

I'm a werewolf!

Where does a werewolf belong?

Oh... I'm in a forest, a green forest. Yes, a werewolf belongs in a forest!

I can run like a wolf. I run over the ground, past trees and over rocks,
past bushes. I can even jump over small ones. But do I want to be a
werewolf?

Can I change back..? No.

What can I change into then? Anything?

I'm a bird. Yes, now I'm a bird. Didn't I read about someone being a
bird? Was it in Waggoner's book? A woman turned into a bird in an LD!
I've read it, so it must apparently be possible to become a bird!

I can move back and forth on a twig. I chirp! "Chirp-Chirp!"

I quickly move my small tail feathers up and down. I'm a small brown
bird who blends well into the forest. "Chirp!" My small bird feet
move back and forth along a branch with great quickness. "Chirp!"

But wait, I'm not a bird.

Suddenly I'm back into being a werewolf. I realize that I can't change
my appearence anymore. Being a bird for a short while, somehow made me
feel more at ease with being a werewolf. I concentrate on figuring out
why I'm a werewolf.

What am I supposed to do?

The forest seems darker. Yes, I'm supposed to move into the darker parts
of the forest. The dark and scary parts. I'm a werewolf in body but the
dark forest still scares me. I'm not really confident moving into this
kind of surroundings.

I jump around in the black forest. It became denser, but I had no
problems moving around. Now the darkness was also part of my mind.
It was a heavy, bad darkness.

Again I have to make a long story short, or at least shorter:

In front of me was a monster. It was a huge Werewolf-Smoke-Monster. The
best metaphor is if you can imagine a werewolf about 20 feet high combined
with the smoke monster from TV series "Lost". That's the impression I got.

The Werewolf-Smoke-Monster was scary initially, but as time passed,
during the retrieval, I didn't perceive it as scary.

It was just monstrous.

Also, the Werewolf-Smoke-Monster wasn't human either, perhaps not even
an animal in the usual sense? The Werewolf-Smoke-Monster moved around
me like a whirl wind, just being monstrous and terrible.

I tried to figure out what to do in the situation. Having a huge monster
running around me in circles didn't make sense. I could now also feel
Tom Hanks somewhere behind me. I asked Tom what the Smoke-Monster was,
but Tom didn't answer. I then asked the Smoke-Monster: "What are you?"

No answer.

I decided to do as I had done before, but this time the Aspect seemed
to be much bigger than anything I've encountered before. I asked it
to enter me. I sent it PUL. I put myself in an emotional state where
I fully accepted the Werewolf-Smoke-Monster. I shouted out:

"I call my Aspects to me! All Aspects, come to me! You are accepted!
Enter me!"

I got tons and tons of chills and surges down and up my back and
front. But somehow it didn't seem to end. I got a little exhausted
after a while.

I had to rest.


I left the dark forest and moved out onto the much lighter and greener
forest. Eventually I moved out to the clearing of the green forest and
found a meadow. I lay down in my werewolf shape and rested on the thick
grass. I realized that it wasn't really comfortable to lay on back in
a wolf/dog body. I moved to my side and looked at my paws. I still only
had tiny nails, fur paws and nothing that resembled human hands.

I was a werewolf, but somehow I more felt like being a silly dog.

Perhaps I was too kind, to much dog, when I should be more raw animal,
more wolf?

I raise up on all four and entered into the dark forest again. This time
when I saw the whirl wind of the huge Smoke-Monster, I acted out like
a very angry wolf. I put up rage, my fur was standing, I snarled, showed
my teeth. I looked really mean. Like a big bad wolf. I growled and roared.

And roared more again.

In between my roaring I called my Aspects to me. I put out feelings of
acceptance. I sent the feeling to the Werewolf-Smoke-Monster that I was
as much a monster as it felt it was, so it would be just fine for the
Smoke-Monster to enter me. It would feel at home.

One part of me didn't feel like a terrible monster werewolf, and I was
unsure if my approach would be accepted. Each time I roared, the
Smoke-Monster roared back even more monstrous and terrible.

But at some point I leveled with the Werewolf-Smoke-Monster. I wasn't
as bad as the Smoke-Monster but I managed to give off the impression
that I at least deserved to play in the same league.

At this time I've also had the ride of my life with chills and energy
surges going up and down my physical body.

Then the Smoke-Monster little by little diminished in size, it shrank
as it raced around me in its whirl wind style.

In front of me something emerged. It seemed to be a huge pile that
emerged out of the remnants of the Smoke-Monster. The pile looked
almost human. I could spot an eye and a few human teeth in a disfigured
mouth, which seemed so severely deformed that it couldn't be closed.
The rest of the body looked like an extremely, dysfunctional
and shapeless human who had gone trough a lot of burn damage,
combined with Elephantiasis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephantiasis

As I called more and more of my Aspects to me, the deformed human
"pile" shrank and shrank. Swollen body parts became smaller.

The disfigured body now was in the size of half a human. I could feel
how I drifted backwards, ending on my back suspended in mid air.

Two feet long worms with the thickness of my wrist, crawled into my
stomach and into my head. At least three worms entered. I got scared and
remembered a story I've read, that I should avoid astral worms. But then
I change my mind, let go of the fear and accepted the worms. They only
had low animal intelligence. As my resistance to the worms disappeared,
my fear for the worms also went away.

Worms entered me more than once. I got tons of chills.

I started to turn back into my human shape. I had hands and a completely
normal human body now. Some parts of the Smoke-Monster still circled me
but most of it was gone. The total interaction with the Werewolf-Smoke-Monster
must have taken more than 20 minutes in real time.

The pile of burnt human fat flesh shrank until only a deformed head and
a small stump below the neck remained.

The Smoke-Monster was gone.

I lifted up the repulsive head and told it that I accepted it and
sent it PUL. The head didn't seem to want to enter me. I said I needed
it, that we were the same. I needed that Aspect. It should not be alone.

I was kind of exhausted now and was not completely clear about what to do.
I may not have clicked out, but somehow I lost it, or at least lost the
last part of what to do. So perhaps it was a click out?

Click?

I could perceive the shell of an animal. I wasn't in the forest anymore.
Perhaps this was a very barren land. I saw almost no plants.

Then I saw the shell again and realized it was a shell of an Almost-Turtle.

It didn't really look like any turtle I've seen on picture or real life.
The Almost-Turtle had too flat a turtle house to be a real turtle, the
turtle shell was also too smooth and the legs of the Almost-Turtle were
too big. The head had the beak of a bird, like an eagle's beak.

I got the feeling that the Almost-Turtle was a being of its own. It had
wisdom and some kind of simple intelligence. It was between humans and
animals, but closer in intelligence to animals than to humans.

The Almost-Turtle was 1.5 meters long and about 1 meter wide.

I wondered if I was on another planet, because I didn't get the feeling
of Earth. Or was it Earth in another time? The Almost-Turtle seemed old.

Then I got it.

The Almost-Turtle was a part of my I-There. So I got to see part of my
Total Self after all!

I got more chills, lots of chills!

I also felt some inner turmoil, which eventually calmed down.

I looked at the Almost-Turtle. It looked cute. I did as we humans do
sometimes with pet animals. Standing on its right side. I petted the
Almost-Turtle on its head as it looked at me with eyes of wisdom.

Then the Almost-Turtle started moving. It walked past me with a speed
somewhat faster than a human walking. I looked after it as it disappeared
in the distance. When it was almost gone, it turned in an odd way and waved
at me with it right front leg. I could feel that this waving was the work
of Tom Hanks, and that it was a kind of joke too. I waved back in a similar
manner and felt happy.


--- Part 4 - end session, wrapping it up ---

The next day I did a simple session. Nothing much happened. I sensed a
woman for a few moments, but that seemed to be all.

Then I rested on my bed and thought of the day before. I realized that
I couldn't remember what I did with the disfigured head once I had picked
it up.

I decided to go to the dome. A man was there. I thought it was Tom Hanks,
but he looked different to me. A few days later I would find out that it
probably wasn't Tom Hanks, but some other Helper, which I have failed
to get the correct name for. Anyway, this new guy looked like James May
from the TV series Top Gear, so let's call him "James May" for the time
being.

The person I thought was Tom Hanks with long hair, was in fact this
James May Helper. I asked James May about the retrieval and got very
unclear answers. I decided to go back to where I had picked up the head.

But no forest appeared.

Instead I was standing indoors, in a huge room, like an office space or
storage area. The room had white walls, some light gray floor and big
whitish squares in the ceiling. The room had the feeling of a government
installation, now being closed down and abandoned.

I moved around in the empty office space and found the disfigured head
from the day before. Its body looked like a burn damaged and amputated
stump of an arm.

I lifted up the head. And put it to my chest and sent it PUL. I could
feel how the head integrated with me. I again got lots of chills.

Most of the head ended up somewhere inside me. A blob the size of my
fist, still poked out from the upper part of my chest. I pushed the
blob into my body and sent it acceptance.


Some days after, as a mental after construction, which may be wrong,
I could feel that the room was like a cold government building that had
been used for some kind of biological experiment. This was an astral
feeling and probably not connected with any real physical experiment.
The place felt closed down and abandoned, its equipment removed and
any traces of the experiment had been taken away. Only the head was
left at the place. If this was the feeling of the disfigure head or
the after image of some kind of F 23 setting, I don't know. It could
also be my general distrust for government that created the feeling.


---------------------

Later I added:

I've got a little more info now. The Dark Being at the Transit Hall was not an Aspect.

In total there were 5 Aspects of Self who merged with me. I think at least one of the dark ones,
was from a time when I couldn't "fight" for myself. Instead an Aspect of me was created and
helped me, but when things were over, my Aspect was lost and alone. I'm happy they are back,
as I feel more at peace.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 19:18:48 by Pauli2 » Logged

Former PauliEffect (got lost on server crash), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_effect
Greytraveller
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2011, 00:01:34 »

Hallo Pauli
I am not going to comment on this particular retrieval. But will comment on the idea of retrievals in general.
My big question about retrievals is--
Under what power/whose name is the retrieval being done? I mean who "authorizes" a retrieval? huh
Yes, yes, I know, a retrieval is done for the good of the being who is "retrieved". But who decides who is ready to be retrieved and where that person is to be sent?

And how do retrievals fit in with the concept of free will?
Or with the idea that a person must remain in a certain place until they have learned a certain lesson?? Or until that person has worked out his or her karma??

Don't feel it necessary to reply to each question. I am much more interested to hear your opinion on retrievals in general.

Regards  cool
Grey
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2011, 00:01:34 »

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Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Jilt
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2011, 03:00:54 »

The part I relate to is incorporating the supposed negative aspects of self.

I've often felt a black masculine presence glued to my back or hanging onto my ankle when I fly and I always try to shake him loose. However, the other day when I told him to buzz off, he pointed his finger to me and whispered "I'm you" and then I realized he was probably my shadow or animus. In fact, in that moment he felt like a friendly loving presence so I decided whenever I sense him to realize it's nothing to avoid and have since done research on incorporating shadow aspects of yourself (good new book by Deepak Chopra and Marianne Williamson on the subject).

Regarding retrievals in general, I've read all of Monroe's books but believe lower astrals are thought forms and that we shouldn't waste our time seeking them out unless brought face to face with one and feel we can do some good in giving them guidance. Otherwise I believe other astrals are in a better position to do this work if it's needed.
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2011, 12:09:29 »

My big question about retrievals is--
Under what power/whose name is the retrieval being done? I mean who
"authorizes" a retrieval? huh
Yes, yes, I know, a retrieval is done for the good of the being who is
"retrieved". But who decides who is ready to be retrieved and where
that person is to be sent?

And how do retrievals fit in with the concept of free will?
Or with the idea that a person must remain in a certain place until they
have learned a certain lesson?? Or until that person has worked out his
or her karma??

First of all "free will" and "karma" are concepts of religious nature.
I think clinging to such concepts may cause a discarnate to get
stuck in the BST Focus Levels.


Let's start with the first question:

1. Retrieval initiation

I feel that it takes between 1-3 weeks for me to be able to be
put in a retrieval situation. In average it takes 2 weeks or more
between retrievals for me so far.

I think a group of discarnates arranges the retrieval and that it
requires a lot of preparations. If you go by the belief of Monroe,
the most interested group of discarnates are from the stuck person's
I-There. The I-There discarnates could possible get help from other
sources too, like the stuck discarnate's "soul group", if you are
prepared to believe in such a concept. I think "soul group" can
consist of family and friends mostly, mainly from one of the latest
incarnations.

Most likely, retrievals are planned months in advance, perhaps
millenia in advance in the most extreme cases, if time exists
in the astral will say.


2. "Free will"

Each time you dream you are exposed to a scenery, "simulation" in
Kurt Leland's words. Those dreams are not constructed from your
"free will". Someone else arranges your dream scenes and insert
thoughts into your mind.

Monroe also wrote in his books about lessons. Those lessons are not
set up by the "free will" of your awake person.

I doubt that the concept of "free will" really fits into the astral.

For example, it is not unusual for the discarnates to trick persons
doing certain things, hide truth or even lie to you. Remember, it
was hidden to Monroe for a long time that his INSPEC friend was
one future incarnation, if that was true will say.

So I kind of have to forget "free will" when I do retrievals.

Then there is the other side of the coin. Perhaps there is free will,
but not in the sense you think of. In advance of being incarnated you
agree on certain circumstances, as I think is noted in both one of the
Monroe books, and at least in one Moen book.

John Magnus wrote in his first book that he at one time became aware
in the astral during sleep and realized that he had been talking for
a very long time with his guide. About what? He didn't know. But
whatever was agreed, was forgotten by Magnus. Several others have
reported being in the astral and talking with guides or I-There
members, arranging things, but have they agreed by "free will"?
Probably not. Smiley

Also, people who get stuck in F 23 or BSTs, do so by the force of
someone else.

The discarnates soldier who guards a piece of land in F 23, does so
out of feeling of duty imposed by someone else, he doesn't do so
out of "free will".

Same goes for people in Hells and Hollow Heavens. Someone else has
put their religious beliefs on the discarnates, so they get stuck
below F 27.

Same goes for Aspects of Self, who may have to leave because of hard
times during a persons lifetime, not by "free will".

And to take a look at physical life. Free will doesn't work either,
for for example drug addicts. Once they have become addicts, no
"free will" exists anymore.


3. "Karma"

I don't think Karma is what religion tells us it is, if it exists at all, which I doubt.

One possible explanation is given in Moen's third and fourth books.
I also put some of the concepts mentioned by Moen in the perm. Moen's
thread ->

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/bruce_moen-t17022.0.html;msg270625#msg270625

Think of a person born by psycho criminal drug addicts and another one
born by rich Hiltons or Kennedys. If both persons become criminals
themselves, should they get the same bad "karma", whatever that is?

Social background matters; if you get a loving upbringing or a hateful
one. I don't think "karma" fits the picture.

(Lessons?)
Sometimes discarnates kind of move very slowly through F 23 to F 27, and
in such cases the I-There leaves it as it is a natural process which has
to take its course.


"Karma" and "free will" are a poor yard stick, if they exist.

(Edit: typo)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 09:28:08 by Pauli2 » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2011, 19:26:12 »

The more TMI material that is brought up, the more I'm turned off by TMI. It sounds more and more like a cult in which you are supposed to just accept the teachings and practice as though it's fact. It seems very contrary to what Monroe himself was trying to accomplish. He talked about what he found, but he wanted people to figure out and confirm things on their own. Turn beliefs into knowns, not accept what you're told.

EDIT: Cult was a harsh word to use, I know TMI is not a cult. Sorry.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 20:12:04 by Stookie_ » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2011, 19:26:12 »



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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2011, 20:58:43 »

1. Retrieval initiation
I feel that it takes between 1-3 weeks for me to be able to be
put in a retrieval situation. In average it takes 2 weeks or more
between retrievals for me so far.
I think a group of discarnates arranges the retrieval and that it
requires a lot of preparations. If you go by the belief of Monroe,
the most interested group of discarnates are from the stuck person's
I-There. The I-There discarnates could possible get help from other
sources too, like the stuck discarnate's "soul group", if you are
prepared to believe in such a concept. I think "soul group" can
consist of family and friends mostly, mainly from on of the latest
incarnations.
Most likely, retrievals are planned months in advance, perhaps
millenia in advance in the most extreme cases, if time exists
in the astral will say.
I think that retrievals are also a kind of 'profession' (for a certain period) for some discarnates / souls (who themselves are on their development path, already much higher than we incarnates are).
Leland talks about facilitiators, Moen about helpers, and there is a lot of other literature about retrieval guides (as well as other guides) to find.
I remember that Moen describes it as a 'deal' or a 'win-win-situation' between the incarnated retriever and the helper/guide/facilitator: You (as incarnated person) have better dimensional access to the retrievee (cool word, huh?), who is dwelling or completely lost in the astral, since you are almost on the same frequency/density level as they are - as opposed to the discarnate helper/guide. That's why they recognise you better and so the helpers need you. You are a team. As a kind of 'payoff' for your efforts (next to your own personal payoff with 'good karma', good deeds, good feeling or whatever you want and believe in) you get 'shown around', advice, guidance and useful practice teachings from the helper you work together with in return.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 21:02:40 by Volgerle » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2011, 22:58:39 »

Greetings
Retrievals can be beneficial, but are not necessarily so to the person being retrieved. Some discarnate souls simply need time to work out their problems, whether it be an addiction to alcohol or drugs or sex or emotional problems such as depression. Perhaps the person being retrieved has begun to work those problems out by him/herself and will be ready to 'move on' to another, "higher" astral location in a short time.
So, again, I wonder
"Under what power/whose name is the retrieval being done? I mean who "authorizes" a retrieval?"
This questions especially applies, I believe, to those retrievals where the person being retrieved is either unwilling or unready to the leave the place they are in.

Regards  cool
Grey
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2011, 01:26:26 »

Some discarnate souls simply need time to work out their problems,
whether it be an addiction to alcohol or drugs or sex or emotional
problems such as depression. Perhaps the person being retrieved
has begun to work those problems out by him/herself and will be
ready to 'move on' to another, "higher" astral location in a short time.

So, again, I wonder
"Under what power/whose name is the retrieval being done? I mean
who "authorizes" a retrieval?"

This questions especially applies, I believe, to those retrievals where
the person being retrieved is either unwilling or unready to the leave
the place they are in.


I have to divide my answer into several parts. And to some part
I will repeat my answer a little. I've collected what I know from
accounts of people having done retrievals and described them
on forums (among others, the astralpulse). And I also rely on
info from Moen's books, and in this case, specially Moen's
first two books, but also some of the later ones.

If I fail to answer a question, just restate it or ask for more
clarity. My answers may contain faults.


A. Direct retrievals

Directly after a person passes over and becomes discarnate, there
is a short period of time where the person still hasn't settled in
to F 23 or a BST.

During that time, Helpers are keen to step in and move discarnates
directly to F 27, before they get stuck anywhere.

Exactly how long that time is in physical measured time, I'm a little
unsure of, but think that it can be an hour (or minute?) up to
a week (weeks?). But in that time frame Helpers in F 27 can
retrieve new discarnates, without the help from incarnates,
directly moving them to F 27. Sometimes Helpers use incarnates
to speed the process.

It's my impression that most (?) new discarnates move directly to F 27
without the need for any help.


B. Working out problems

Some people may need to work out problems. Well, I'm under the
impression that if that's the case and the discarnate doesn't move
directly to F 27, but slowly drift in F 23 or similar, that's fine. Drifting
upwards is fine as long as the discarnate doesn't get stuck.

Sometimes people are moved directly to some area in F 27 and have
a much better position to work out their problems there, as they have
the option to accept help or PUL, if they like. See also the perm. link
on Moen and my abbreviations about Centers in F 27.

People stuck in F 23 and retrieved, may still need time in an F 27 area
to work out problems, if I've got it right, as the F 23 time only allowed
them to loop over unsolved issues, but I'm not sure how that works.
Maybe the same goes for BST Hells? Tortured souls need some time
in healing areas in F 27, before they can function again.


C. Authority in retrievals.

You can't retrieve anyone unless there is at least a small amount
of feeling or thought from the discarnate, that the discarnate
wants to leave the F 23 or BST area.

So alcoholics stuck in the Alcoholics Hell (Heaven?) can not be
retrieved unless they have become at least a little bored with
constantly being drunk among other alcoholics.

Being connected to an I-There means that the permanent members
experience all feelings and thoughts of the connected discarnate,
even if the discarnate is stuck and unaware of Helpers. The same
goes for stuck Aspects of Self belonging to a discarnate who already
is retrieved.

My impression is that it's the I-There, to whom the stuck
discarnate belong, who is the authority to decide when to
do the retrieval. Or rather, it is the I-There's discarnates
who are permanent members, who collectively makes
the decision.

If the discarnate has no members or no I-There, I just assume
that the discarnate may be stuck for a very long time, like
thousands of years, until the discarnate all by itself manage
to float out of the F 23 area, but I don't really know.

People get bored in both F 23 and BSTs, and they eventually
leave, and go to F 27, sometimes without help. Lost Souls
who leave BST Hells, also leave the ELS, as there is no natural
place for them within the ELS, but that's an extremely unusual
event.

Perhaps discarnates without I-There get help form existing
I-Theres or just any random discarnate who can send PUL?


D. Depressions and other mental illnesses

If the depression is due to a physical condition in the brain, the
depression goes away almost instantly on crossing over. Same
goes for other mental issues caused by physical conditions in
the brain. Insane people may become 100 % sane in a very short
time after having become discarnate, if the mental issue is the
result of a physical brain disorder or chemical problem.
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« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2011, 12:16:16 »

Shamanic Healing

I found this interesting article at TMI. It is retrievals of Aspects of Self, one
which is in the form of a non-human entity; a rabbit.

The article has been composed by Cecile A. Carson, MD and can be read
in its entirety at this link -> here.

She also says a few words about the three Shamanic Worlds with regard
to the Monroe Focuses.
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« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2011, 13:16:22 »

I have done something similar to this very recently (last few days)- merging with parts of myself. I called to them and they emerged from a tunnel in the ground and merged with me. There were 5 in all.
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