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Author Topic: Separation techniques with no visualization?  (Read 1697 times)
abdo7649
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« on: November 11, 2016, 11:46:44 »

I managed to reach the intense vibration stage using binaural beats, but one effect that I never heard of was that there is some odd imagery that may appear in your head. To start off, I had no vibration in the first place, no noises either. But I expected that considering all methods say that everyone's experiences are unique. In addition to that is that I started to see and feel a ball of light above me whenever I closed my eyes and focused. When the light reached it's most intense level, my heart started to beat (something I expected) and the light filled everything I could look at. When I tried the rope technique I was interrupted by a visual that was in sync with my heart beats. It looked a lot like liquid bouncing off a speaker,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXNQIU, except that it was hovering in the air without anything that pushed it. I kept trying to imagine the rope and get out but the visual bugged me until the vibrations calmed down and I missed my chance for the night.

Are there any separation techniques that don't involve visualizing an object?

Thank you for taking time to read this and have a wonderful day!
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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 23:25:29 »

Make sure your mind stays relaxed and wait to ap.   It will happen by itself without having to do anything. 
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 23:25:29 »

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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2016, 00:40:21 »

Make sure your mind stays relaxed and wait to ap.   It will happen by itself without having to do anything.
That's actually a little simplistic and kind of misleading for someone who already doesn't know what they're doing.  Smiley

You don't actually "do nothing".  If you just sit there, close your eyes and "do nothing"... you'll be waiting an awfully long time and you'll, more than likely, get really bored and quit long before anything ever happens.

The point isn't exactly to do nothing... the point is to actively work towards moving your awareness away from your five physical senses.  You do this by finding a "focus" and then focusing on that focus to the exclusion of all else going on around you.  The "focus" you choose to use will, in effect, be whatever technique/method you decide to use.

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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 04:10:55 »

I see that it does not work for you.   I have ap this way many times and it works for me.   Provided you are relaxed you will ap.   If you are not relaxed enough you will not ap.
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2016, 05:50:05 »

I see that it does not work for you.   I have ap this way many times and it works for me.   Provided you are relaxed you will ap.   If you are not relaxed enough you will not ap.
So what you're saying is that you do absolutely NOTHING.  You just lie there, close your eyes and do nothing.

Doing nothing has never projected anyone anywhere.  If doing nothing was all anyone had to do, this forum wouldn't exist... because everyone would be projecting already. 
If there's one thing humans are REALLY GOOD AT, it's doing nothing.  Smiley
I can guarantee you that you do not do nothing... you just don't realize or know what you're doing.

As for "relaxing"... relaxing actually has very little to do with the process.  It just makes it slightly easier to "focus".
I've projected on a moving train, bouncing around, very UN-relaxed. 
It's like meditating in a noisey environment versus a quiet one.  Obviously it's easier to project in the quiet environment, because it's easier to focus... but that doesn't mean you can't do it in the noisey environment.

Am I making any sense?  Smiley
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LightBeam
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2016, 06:29:46 »

I haven't heard of just relaxing to trigger AP. I have seen tons of people on this forum struggling to AP even trough prolonged meditation sessions. I myself cant AP with meditation. I need to let myself fall asleep, by while diminishing my brain waves, I do a technique, which raises my awareness and I am awaken during sleep with vibrations. Not many people can fully AP and detach from this reality if their brain waves are active. That means your physical senses are active and you perceive this reality even if the perception is minimal.

To answer your question,abdo, you can do techniques without visualization. Sometimes I do motion. Just trigger inner motion of any sort while you are falling asleep. If any visuals appear during vibes, that's a good thing. Don't linger too long during the vibrational state, because that will cause awakening of the brain. Instead, imagine that you are standing by the door, or mentally teleport yourself out of your bed. Don't try with movements, just imagine yourself somewhere.
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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2016, 09:04:56 »

It actually is very much possible to astral project by doing "nothing" actively, but that isn't to say that nothing is happening that differs from the typical waking state.

After performing the Wim Hof method I would often end up in a state of relaxation. I think it also helps that the method stimulates the pineal, but this is not mandatory to experience what I describe, it can also be done in other ways.

I would simply lay there doing "nothing" actively. At some point a train of thought would begin, and within seconds I would find myself experiencing a projection. In my opinion there was a focus, the train of thought. However, the focus was not used to achieve the precursor state, it is simply a momentary conduit of the process.

Indeed, with sufficient relaxation you will experience more or less spontaneous projection by doing "nothing" but being.
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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2016, 09:07:19 »

I haven't heard of just relaxing to trigger AP. I have seen tons of people on this forum struggling to AP even trough prolonged meditation sessions. I myself cant AP with meditation. I need to let myself fall asleep, by while diminishing my brain waves, I do a technique, which raises my awareness and I am awaken during sleep with vibrations. Not many people can fully AP and detach from this reality if their brain waves are active. That means your physical senses are active and you perceive this reality even if the perception is minimal.

What is the technique you use to bring your awareness back after falling asleep LightBeam?

Is there anything in particular that you do to lower your brain waves when you fall asleep initially?
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LightBeam
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2016, 09:13:14 »

What is the technique you use to bring your awareness back after falling asleep LightBeam?

Is there anything in particular that you do to lower your brain waves when you fall asleep initially?

I don't have to do anything after falling asleep. I am obviously not conscious. What happens is I am awaken during sleep by noises and inner shakes - the vibrational state and SP. That awakening is a result of the technique I do while falling asleep.

I don't do anything to intentionally lower my brain waves. I simply wait until bed time when I naturally feel sleepy.
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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2016, 09:49:54 »

So what you're saying is that you do absolutely NOTHING.  You just lie there, close your eyes and do nothing.

Doing nothing has never projected anyone anywhere.  If doing nothing was all anyone had to do, this forum wouldn't exist... because everyone would be projecting already. 
If there's one thing humans are REALLY GOOD AT, it's doing nothing.  Smiley
I can guarantee you that you do not do nothing... you just don't realize or know what you're doing.

As for "relaxing"... relaxing actually has very little to do with the process.  It just makes it slightly easier to "focus".
I've projected on a moving train, bouncing around, very UN-relaxed. 
It's like meditating in a noisey environment versus a quiet one.  Obviously it's easier to project in the quiet environment, because it's easier to focus... but that doesn't mean you can't do it in the noisey environment.

Am I making any sense?  Smiley
I agree that you do not have to be relaxed to ap but it mostly does not happen.   I have ap when I was not relaxed.   I think this forum would exist if people relaxed and ap.   We will have to agree to disagree.  Perhaps other people cannot ap the way I ap.   I would not say what I said if it was not true.   There would be no point in it.   I am just saying what I do.
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2016, 09:55:49 »

Not many people can fully AP and detach from this reality if their brain waves are active. That means your physical senses are active and you perceive this reality even if the perception is minimal.
I am aware of myself and my surroundings.
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Phalanx
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2016, 11:39:02 »

Strange as it sounds my closest results to having an AP have been through focusing on a car door. I drive my mother to her doctor appointments and usually sleep in the car because the appointments tend to be ungodly early in the morning. I don't really try to go to sleep but I aim for as much rest as possible while staying awake by putting all my attention on the door because when it opens means appointments done and time to drive home. Its kind of like waiting for a timer to go off but not knowing when it will so you just actively pay attention to it until it does. Doing so I have I believe had 3 experiences only one of them was with enough vividness for control but the experience did not last long.

Not to long ago I come to realize that similar circumstances spurred my first experiences that taught me about AP.
Quite similarly I was actualy trying to get sleep, but focusing on a house door. My grand mother had just moved and I was sleeping over at the place she was moving into while things were being moved over to deter thieves as she stayed at her old place till everything was moved. Granted I was not really worried about thieves or anything but a new house with strange sounds and most of them came from the front door due to a tree out side, kinda holds your attention. Over the course of 2 weeks nightly it was like being next to a planes propeller with strong vibrations. At the time I had no idea what it was so I never made it past that stage as hands down it was quite frightening, I easily thought I was dying.

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abdo7649
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2016, 20:19:24 »

Quote
So what you're saying is that you do absolutely NOTHING.  You just lie there, close your eyes and do nothing.

Actually if you think about it, it may be possible for some people. Many people say their first experience was by accident and without intention. So I guess it's a rare thing that only a few people have, which I doubt will ever happen to me.

Quote
You don't actually "do nothing".  If you just sit there, close your eyes and "do nothing"... you'll be waiting an awfully long time and you'll, more than likely, get really bored and quit long before anything ever happens.

That was somewhat similar to me. A friend told me the best thing to do was only to focus on the music. I listened for a while and occasionally drifted off with my thoughts until I was close to separation. But yes, trying to focus on doing something at that point mess me up and I had to wait even longer until I quit.

Quote
To answer your question,abdo, you can do techniques without visualization. Sometimes I do motion. Just trigger inner motion of any sort while you are falling asleep. If any visuals appear during vibes, that's a good thing. Don't linger too long during the vibrational state, because that will cause awakening of the brain. Instead, imagine that you are standing by the door, or mentally teleport yourself out of your bed. Don't try with movements, just imagine yourself somewhere.

Thank you for your suggestion! I'll try my best with this the next time I attempt astral projection.

Quote
Strange as it sounds my closest results to having an AP have been through focusing on a car door. I drive my mother to her doctor appointments and usually sleep in the car because the appointments tend to be ungodly early in the morning. I don't really try to go to sleep but I aim for as much rest as possible while staying awake by putting all my attention on the door because when it opens means appointments done and time to drive home. Its kind of like waiting for a timer to go off but not knowing when it will so you just actively pay attention to it until it does.

That could work, but the thing is that I don't have any indication when do I wake up or what to focus on when I sleep, so it's hard to find something to focus on while I fall asleep.


Thank you all for your attention and replies! I have been really excited to try astral projection and it makes me really happy that there are people who are willing to help me with this. Smiley
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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2016, 22:38:20 »

I don't have to do anything after falling asleep. I am obviously not conscious. What happens is I am awaken during sleep by noises and inner shakes - the vibrational state and SP. That awakening is a result of the technique I do while falling asleep.

I don't do anything to intentionally lower my brain waves. I simply wait until bed time when I naturally feel sleepy.

Nice, sounds simple to implement. I would be grateful if you shared the technique that you use while falling asleep. I have only once awoken "post sleep" into the vibration stage on accident with no particular intent. It was extremely effortless to separate however, it would be great to be able to reproduce this type of event.
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Lumaza
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2016, 23:30:21 »

Are there any separation techniques that don't involve visualizing an object?
Abdo7649, you could use a "tactile focus" approach, akin to what I do in the thread "Phantom Wiggling". No visualization is needed in that that approach, you are just getting in touch with your "etheric body". Vessens's Vehram program and Fred Aardema's "Vigil Method" also use a tactile focus.
 Here's a link to that thread: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/how_exactly_do_you_perform_the_phantom_wiggle_method-t44583.0.html
 Here's Fred's Vigil Technique:http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_vigil_method-t37291.0.html
 ...and lastly here is a link to info pertaining to Vessen's Vehram System: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/the_vehram_system_is_truly_brilliant-t29333.0.html
 
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« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2016, 23:41:16 »

 We need to all see that there are many ways to achieve a good strong "NP" or "other realm" focus. Just because one way doesn't work for you, doesn't mean that it doesn't work for someone else. It also doesn't mean that it isn't possible.

 I experiment often and find many ways to achieve success. There is "creative visualization", tactile focus (as I stated above) and yes even the do nothing approach (even though that approach does take a long time and can be rather boring). You can use a pre-nap (as is discussed in Bedeekin's thread here on the Astral pulse). That one will normally lead to you becoming aware in a the state of SP, like Lightbeam does. She uses a tactile approach/motion before she goes to sleep to achieve the state of SP, instead of using a pre-nap.

 Find what works for you, but don't stop there. The way to keep this practice "new", is to constantly challenge yourself to experience anew.
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« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2016, 08:13:12 »

Abdo7649, you could use a "tactile focus" approach, akin to what I do in the thread "Phantom Wiggling". No visualization is needed in that that approach, you are just getting in touch with your "etheric body". Vessens's Vehram program and Fred Aardema's "Vigil Method" also use a tactile focus.
 Here's a link to that thread: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/how_exactly_do_you_perform_the_phantom_wiggle_method-t44583.0.html
 Here's Fred's Vigil Technique:http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_vigil_method-t37291.0.html
 ...and lastly here is a link to info pertaining to Vessen's Vehram System: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/the_vehram_system_is_truly_brilliant-t29333.0.html
 


Sometimes, I imagine my favorite vacation spot from childhood. I walk on the beach, touch the sand, recall the smell of the sea air, watch the people around, the ships on the horizon. I recall the feeling and excitement of being there and all the activities my family did. This hold my attention, because it is related to sweet memories and I feel as I am reliving them again. But I don't just imagine the place. The key is to imagine yourself being there and doing things. Sometimes I include motion, like running really fast on the beach.
Another favorite location is my childhood home. I am very attached emotionally to it and sometimes I imagine walking in every room, touching stuff and observing.
Sometimes I imagine being in  worlds I visited during APs, or worlds from favorite books or movies.
Basically imagining being some place else while falling asleep will do. If you have a problem being too tired at night, just set up a time to go to bed 1/2 hr earlier that the time you really get tired. That will give you a chance to do the technique for at least 20 min. You don't need longer than that. But let the last thought as you drift off to sleep to be you in that location.
Keep in mind that if you are just starting with this technique it may take 3 to 4 weeks before you start getting awaken during sleep by the vibes. Don't give up. Give it a try for at least a month.

A short cut technique I use is when I wake up during the night and before I fall back asleep I hold my mind awake for a few minutes and I just imagine my bed swaying from side to side. Feel the inner motion. This usually triggers vibrations really fast as I am drifting quickly into a sleep state. This could be done also when you are intending to nap during the day, but you have to be sleepy.
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2016, 00:06:12 »

Interesting approach LightBeam, I will try and put it to use myself. Do you have any insights on why it is that doing these visualizations prior to falling asleep causes you to awaken post sleep? What kind of a duration do imagine we are talking about between your last waking memory and becoming aware post sleep?
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2016, 10:33:18 »

Interesting approach LightBeam, I will try and put it to use myself. Do you have any insights on why it is that doing these visualizations prior to falling asleep causes you to awaken post sleep? What kind of a duration do imagine we are talking about between your last waking memory and becoming aware post sleep?

I think that by picturing yourself being away from your physical body, transports little parts of your awareness each night some place else. And when you send enough "volume" of awareness/energy, at some point it becomes charged enough to hold focus. During sleep you automatically become focused in the energy areas of your immediate thoughts, but there isn't enough awareness for you to realize and take control. This is how regular dreams occur. However, when you build awareness through various techniques, the focus you have built away from your physical surroundings will signal you when it's strong enough to fully re-focus. One of the signals are the noises and inner shakes that we call the vibrations. Sometimes they don't even occur, you just become aware during sleep/dreams.
I usually get awaken after 3-4 hrs of sleep. But again, I will stress on the importance to do this technique at the right time and to allow a few weeks for your awareness to build out there. Many people don't understand that and give up after a few days of trying.
Many people day dream a lot being some place else, but that's not enough. You have to picture not only the place, but you being there and interacting with the objects, observing the surroundings. You need to fully submerge yourself in the scene, feel the different textures of the objects, walk around, smell the air, feel the wind on your face, the rain, the snow, the sunlight, etc
If these are your last thoughts focused some place else as you are shutting your physical scences, you are keeping the channel open for your charging awareness at that other focus point.
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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2016, 10:52:02 »

Strange as it sounds my closest results to having an AP have been through focusing on a car door. I drive my mother to her doctor appointments and usually sleep in the car because the appointments tend to be ungodly early in the morning. I don't really try to go to sleep but I aim for as much rest as possible while staying awake by putting all my attention on the door because when it opens means appointments done and time to drive home. Its kind of like waiting for a timer to go off but not knowing when it will so you just actively pay attention to it until it does. Doing so I have I believe had 3 experiences only one of them was with enough vividness for control but the experience did not last long.

Not to long ago I come to realize that similar circumstances spurred my first experiences that taught me about AP.
Quite similarly I was actualy trying to get sleep, but focusing on a house door. My grand mother had just moved and I was sleeping over at the place she was moving into while things were being moved over to deter thieves as she stayed at her old place till everything was moved. Granted I was not really worried about thieves or anything but a new house with strange sounds and most of them came from the front door due to a tree out side, kinda holds your attention. Over the course of 2 weeks nightly it was like being next to a planes propeller with strong vibrations. At the time I had no idea what it was so I never made it past that stage as hands down it was quite frightening, I easily thought I was dying.


I like your story, Phalanx. This is another prove that imagining yourself away from your physical body while falling asleep works. It doesn't matter where. It could be the next room, in your back yard, by your door, window, etc.
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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2016, 23:49:20 »

I like your story, Phalanx. This is another prove that imagining yourself away from your physical body while falling asleep works. It doesn't matter where. It could be the next room, in your back yard, by your door, window, etc.

I think my example would be less visualization / imagining and more of a simple focus.
At least the example of waiting at the doctors is a mind awake and body asleep method with no visual or imagining. I would try to not fall asleep but I am tired enough that I want some rest so I hold focus on the car door usually just listening for it to open. This hold of focus kept the mind away from body and physical senses, this allowed my body to be forgotten about and get some rest while I was mentally away from it.

My active visualization skills to imagine or visualize the things I would like to willingly is quite poor, however I can hear and feel the texture of things quite well like imagining an apple with out the image, I can feel the apple, hear that strange almost hollowness when you tap it with a finger and what it sounds like to take a bite out of it, but I cant hold a visual of it for any extended period of time. If I try to visualize things its like constantly changing the channel on a tv. Though I am working on visualization I am getting it to where the image changes and takes course like a movie instead of the constant flickering and changing of subject and such.

The stay at my grandmothers place, is quite the opposite though and more like your thought. I was actively trying to get some sleep but the strange noises kept the mind quite alert as I was trying to go to sleep. Eventually my body would be asleep but my mind kept being snapped elsewhere from the sounds, this kept all mental focus away from body and physical senses and awake.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 23:52:02 by Phalanx » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2016, 03:21:27 »

I think my example would be less visualization / imagining and more of a simple focus.
I agree. But it doesn't really matter what you are focusing on, as long as it isn't your physical body. A conscious focused will and intent is all you need.

Quote
My active visualization skills to imagine or visualize the things I would like to willingly is quite poor, however I can hear and feel the texture of things quite well like imagining an apple with out the image, I can feel the apple, hear that strange almost hollowness when you tap it with a finger and what it sounds like to take a bite out of it, but I cant hold a visual of it for any extended period of time. If I try to visualize things its like constantly changing the channel on a tv. Though I am working on visualization I am getting it to where the image changes and takes course like a movie instead of the constant flickering and changing of subject and such.
You are doing great. There is a commercial out on TV that says that the average person can only hold their focus/attention on one thing for about 8 seconds. But the more you practice, the better you get. This practice in general will get you to ramp that number right up, quite quickly too.

 The real adventure and fun begins when the "scene" begins to takes course like a movie. At first you are watching it. But if you hold your focus on it long enough, you will find that you are now "in it", actively participating in the scenario at hand.
 Like I said above "you are doing great"!  cool
 

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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2016, 06:33:12 »

Hey Abdo:

When I started out, I was not very skilled at visualization. So, I looked for alternatives. Lumaza's comment to you about "tactile approaches" is very good. Blind people have used tactile approaches to successfully project beyond the body. I would also suggest reading this overview from William Buhlman:

www.astralinfo.org/astral-projection-methods/

It has a useful perspective, and includes both visual and non-visual techniques. Affirmations are one of the techniques that I now use regularly after reading this. You may also want to look at Buhlman's "Exploration Mindset" on his web site (it is very powerful inner work).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 06:36:20 by Subtle Traveler » Logged

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