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Author Topic: Shamanistic journeying  (Read 790 times)
DarknChildlike
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« on: June 09, 2020, 09:31:43 »

          Hey fam, I was reading some books concerning shamanistic journeys into the Upper World, from the Middle World, and alternatively from the Middle World to the Lower World,.

     In most shamanic spirit journeys it seems that in order to transcend the middle world, one is usually doing something the academics of the day call ďauditory steeringĒ, in which one is listening to a monotonous drumming of about 220 beats per minute either a. Indigenously and therefore listening to a live drum or doing it themselves or b. Listening to a cassette tape cd or iPhone or what have you now a days western style,.

     What is described by indigenous and westerners alike, during this time Sounds really truly similar to astral projection, to me personally, with a few distinct and not so distinct differences,.

Iíve only just recently begun reading from reputable authors on this subject And plan to try and see if I can recreate certain aspects of this,.

One thing that differs it seems like is this,. When the shaman goes into non ordinary reality he finds in his mind a natural precipice, very often a tree or mountain top in there mind from which they climb or jump up through a permeable membrane ie fog or paper thin wall of white or a foggy tunnel that they traverse through before they claim they have actually entered non ordinary reality, and in fact no matter how far or high you travel, until you pass this membrane than you are still in the Middle World even if you are past the atmosphere and in space,. This membrane is what actually divides non ordinary realities ie. The Upper World,. And from there you may continue to travel in either left right all around on this plane or travel again further up and into the next plane of the upper world, each plane consisting of a category of things to learn separated by some sort of rhyme or reason which is different for every people,.

This is what most shamanistic practices all have in common I believe although I suppose I could be wrong,. I know that the Amazonian tribes and the Siberianís of Russia all speak of this same exact phenomena with only slight differences,. They believe they can map the upper world from where they are and where they have been and what is called cosmology I believe,.

       The upper world is akin the the cosmos and the lower world is akin to the lower world,. Amazonian tribes along with the Mayan and probably Aztec and all of the other tribes have differing world views and deities but they all sort of have this same idea of waikas which is said something like wahakas,. Which are places where the upper world meets the Middle world and where the middle world meets the lower world,. Example would be mountain tops birds pyramids then thereís the lower caves underwater tunnels roots and insects of the world,.  These can be metaphorical places where the spirit world and our world connect or literal,. A literal place where the upper middle and lower all combine and where the mostly dont at all do so in nature is in the body of the dead or of living dead god like rulers,.

The tribes and city states of South America were ran by patriarchs and sometimes matriarchs,. They believed that a ruler or someone who erected shrines and land works was much more connected to his people Of and the spirits of the land and this gave these lords and nobleman governors and such a lot of power this is waikas as well,.

When tribes would fight against or try to assimilate another tribe / city state they would destroy there landmarks and religious earthworks / shrines and natural places of power that are attributed to these lords and nobleman in order to weaken their connection to the spirit and their people,.

Last thing I would like to say is these people had such a very different thought process than we can imagine,. Every deity pretty much had a male and female counterpart a wife and husband but were also considered the same entity and this is how they remained in balance with the cosmos, there was a huge dependence on the idea of duality and balance,. Nothing could be one way or the other or the world would be put into extreme disequilibrium and this is when natural disasters would happen,.

This balance is also apparent In the upper and lower worlds and there connection to the living and material middle world,.

I havenít done much research yet and mostly have read about journeying to the upper world not the lower yet but will get there as well,. And also try to do some of these journeys while listening to some drumming,.

I gotta go my boy wants to play on the phone!
Ttyl

Much love sincerely,
                        Dark

From there they will have different levels
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Lumaza
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2020, 11:32:47 »

       
     What is described by indigenous and westerners alike, during this time Sounds really truly similar to astral projection, to me personally, with a few distinct and not so distinct differences,.
It's exactly that. They are using the rhythm of the drumming, akin to Binaural Beats/Isochronic Tones to create their trance. Once in a trance, they are stating their intent and then following it through. This is Astral Projection 101!  smiley

 It's the western world that seems to be fixated on the term Astral Projection. It has all kinds of names though. I think all cultures have their own terminology for it. But when push comes to shove, it's all the same thing!

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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2020, 11:32:47 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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DarknChildlike
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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2020, 08:36:38 »

      Thanks lumaza, for Quickly replying to most everyoneís posts in timely matter even if you are still thinking on something more complex to add. Iíve noticed sometimes you will reply to something giving your short hand thoughts or sometimes not even that, but a promise to think on it and to get back.

      For some people who are not only trying to delve deep within, they are reaching out here for some sort of positive attention it means quite a bit.



      I would like to keep this post on the back burner while I do more research and ultimately begin trying to,

      A. Induce trance states using the drumming technique,.

      A-1. More of a Side note,. Personally, I donít know if this is because I havenít dedicated much time at all to it, but,.. binaural beats havenít worked much for me,.. and so, hoping this will give me more reliable Results so as to rule out placebo,.

      B. I will research as much as I can about the different cultures from whom I will be researching each method from, and if I find more methods and more cultures I will add those to the list,. But this also will include the study of what kind of influence over the landscape of the journeys will take ie. What thought forms and guidance/ overal tempo and setting, complex, abstract or otherwise, my journeys will take if at all,.

      B-1. When learning shamanic journeying from a shaman it is customary to not teach ANYTHING of what they might encounter or see, nothing about different planes teachers nothing about differences and cultures,. ANYTHING,. The only guidance that is given they are told what to listen to from the drum for there are auditory cues when to start trance when to end it when to wrap it up,. The drummer gives a double tempo drumming of four beats or something to commence and again after fifteen to thirty minutes to end and then will drum as fast as possible for about ten minutes to completely end the session,. Journeyers are told to climb up from departure point through membrane remember what way they have taken and when they hear the double tempo drumming to come back rapidly as fast as possible and to not forget the way,. *this is the tool for which they can map their cosmogeny* and then spend about ten minutes in silence to commit all things to memory by pen and paper or memory,.

     C. I plan to find what parts of the western obe and what parts of the shamanic journey are part and parcel where do they depart,. And try to eventually decide and come to terms with how I personally will move forward with my practice,. Then the plan is to package this and begin teaching others.




These are only ideas of come up with in the last few days but Iím pretty determined and so, open to and welcome criticisms/ ideas to include avenues of extra research or additions to the abstract and or practical ways to look at/ change/ add how and what exactly I am doing or trying to find,.

What correlations, differences are ofcourse something I want to look at,. But more so I want find what works best for me and what will work best for others going on the basis that we are trying to categories and demystify as much of the phenomena as possible, not to quantify really but to engage and manage frequent journeying. If there are tools used in shamanistic journeys that give you a better quicker way to know your place in the astral I may use that or if itís language better describes certain elements I may use that but if itís not easily relatable I may ditch it,. I will weigh these things,. But then I also really want to try to find a way to measure how much these things all combined influence the experience compared to someone that is told nothing and trained to journey / A.P. Without any before hand transmitted experience to lean on.

Iíve also began reading a lot about Tibetan Buddhist vajrayana bardo meditations / their implications / teaching of clear light Dzong Chen or how ever that is spelt,. and may incorporate some of this as well,.

What I am ultimately trying to Do is pretty transparent I believe,. Not only do I want to encourage my own growth intellectually physically and mentally by finding the best means to AP but I want to find out in what contextual frame of mind does it best grow and mature,. A sentient being in our culture has an AP and may never again if they donít want to learn about it and pick it apart and strive for a definition,. May even go to a doctor that has no clue and may give them a prescription and a diagnosis,. Maybe they will run with it and grow their spiritual mind and body to new limits who knows,. But within the context of culture someone somewhere else will already have a language for all of this and not only already know of what they experience but have a living guide they can inquire as to whether this is something they may want to focus on in the context of their life mission in this living vessel of a body,.

So,. Although we know what we experience is the same thing as the ancient shaman,. Is his practice Ďbetterí or more filled with information that is more readily available just based on the language that was used around him in his formative years to now, and the census that this is something they have known and treasured for thousands of years and therefore have Ďbuiltí their psyche to be super conducive to such phenomenon?

These are pretty big questions and a lot of them are rhetoric ofcourse we know the answer to most of this,. But saying we know and trying to fill the gap and truly understand them by research and practice is another thing,.

My dang son is driving me nuts I can never type for very long ,. Canít proof read or double check anything rn :/ sorry guys and gals.

        Sincerely,
                 Dark
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Lumaza
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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2020, 09:12:00 »

     Thanks lumaza, for Quickly replying to most everyoneís posts in timely matter even if you are still thinking on something more complex to add. Iíve noticed sometimes you will reply to something giving your short hand thoughts or sometimes not even that, but a promise to think on it and to get back.
Your Welcome Dark. I reply  to people's posts quickly because what they are asking is important to them and if it's important to them it's important to me as well!  smiley

 My posts are normally short and sweet because I have never cared to "beat around the bush". I like to get straight to the point and many of the answers seem to kind of rebound back to the same thing again and again. This practice is all about focus and where you put it. It can have many different "labels" and it's teachings have come through almost every culture here on Earth. Yet in the end, it still all goes back to "Focus". If you aren't focusing here, then you are "there"!  smiley

 I live my life by the adage KISS. Which stands for Keep It Simple Stupid!  smiley
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 09:17:40 by Lumaza » Logged

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DarknChildlike
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2020, 09:14:16 »

But yeah, any thoughts?

After I am proficient and have an actual package of information I have verified personally and found to be my and hopefully others best most conducive context of intellectual studies Of culture and language to make journeying / ap conducive, and found the most inclusive and Sure fire ways to induce the a pís I will begin to try and teach someone of the principle teachings of the shamans who have had this gift for thousands of years and what goes into the mix that makes their hearts and brains tick the way they do including the people of the culture and then also the shamans in particular and why they think the way they do versus us ; why it is so dramatically different than westerners point of view, including our ideas of life/ death, the pursuit of happiness, duality, the soul so on and so forth,. Basically I guess what I am saying is I want to teach lessons of the history of non ordinary reality from the beginning of time along with my own proof tested means of reaching said non ordinary reality,.




I think that if I can teach these things will I not only help one person but this is ultimately a project to change the lives of the children of the people whom I change,. Because their children will now be taught from maybe ten and on given these belief structures and be influenced from the age at which their psyche would be most maleable,. This is my first try at changing the world.!!

Whoop whoop!!


           Sincerely,
                    Dark
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2020, 09:14:16 »



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DarknChildlike
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2020, 09:21:30 »

Sorry lum, I posted that before I seen you had replied already,. And as Iím sure you know I only say things about how you write or reply, from a place of great respect and thanks,. Itís meant a lot to me for sure, and I hope youíre thoughts of me come from a similar place, even if I am still standing on unsure legs I am trying to illicit understanding and compassion.
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DarknChildlike
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2020, 09:22:44 »

I honestly think of you as something like a guide and confidante of the material plane,.

Edit: *on the material plane,. Versus the non physical one ha
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 10:23:19 by DarknChildlike » Logged
DarknChildlike
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2020, 10:43:15 »

For the last month or so Iíve been back I havenít delved much into the posts here lately and so havenít been meeting new ppl,. But, if anyone I havenít spoken with reads this and it resonates with you on any level please leave a reply Smiley
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Lumaza
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2020, 13:00:13 »

 I should add another reason to why I post often here right now. I am afraid that inactivity will be the death of this Forum here. It is a valuable treasure trove of information. If the Administrator (Xanth) or any of the Moderators can confirm that inactivity won't close us up, I will gladly post only sporadically for now on. I already know how to do this. I am here solely to help others however I can!  smiley
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ďThe day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."  Nicolai Tesla
DarknChildlike
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« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2020, 04:05:24 »

That makes sense, itís a good thing you post regularly! It gives others something to think on or moves the dialogue forward, never stop! I want more insight, more criticism, and more talk in general!

Keep it coming!
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2020, 04:40:49 »

I should add another reason to why I post often here right now. I am afraid that inactivity will be the death of this Forum here. It is a valuable treasure trove of information. If the Administrator (Xanth) or any of the Moderators can confirm that inactivity won't close us up, I will gladly post only sporadically for now on. I already know how to do this. I am here solely to help others however I can!  smiley

This forum is an amazing trove of information, indispensable for those on their Astral Projection and non-physical journeys.

Lumaza, I urge you to continue writing here. While at times it may seem fruitless, I promise you many people, like myself, are extremely grateful for your help.

Astral Projection isn't something that is very common among people, and this is one of the only places I've found that helps with people's inner journeys. Astral Projection can be an extremely lonely journey since it is by its nature a solo journey. It's places like this and people like you that are responsible for people continuing their efforts and not feeling helpless and along their way.

Thank you for your work!
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 04:43:40 by Puls3 » Logged
GrumpyRabbit
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2020, 23:23:06 »

Hi everyone. I'm new here, but I saw the discussion about shamanism and OBEs and I wanted to chime in.

I've been going on shamanic journeys for the past 1.5 years, approximately. I started off by going to a guided group meditation on the winter solstice, and the experience was profound but unnerving. I wanted to look more into it, so found a local shamanic practitioner who teaches. I've been working on it ever since, and am currently in the healer's practicum (e.g., doing soul retrievals, power animal retrievals, that sort of thing).

Just this month, I started astral projecting (I did it once in high school, but dismissed the experience). I wondered if I would encounter the same guides that I do while journeying, but it's completely different. There doesn't seem to be any overlap, so I'm really wondering about this. The OBEs are accompanied by things that will be familiar to you all - vibrations, feeling parts of my "body" lift/float up, the invisible "helping hands" carrying me where I want to go, or sometimes shooting straight up and out like I'm blasting through a wormhole. When I'm out, it seems like I'm seeing, hearing, and physically feeling things like I normally would, if not a little weird/distorted/unusual!

But shamanic journeying is very different for me. There's no vibrations or "leaving" my body, although the entire idea of shamanism is that you enter non-ordinary reality - the 'walkers between the worlds'. I use drumming (sometimes it's been live, but when I'm home by myself I use a recording through headphones). And it feels like regular visualization, but the kind where things seem to "pop into" my mind's eye, rather than me consciously driving a narrative/daydream, if that makes sense. Like, Where did that come from in my mind's eye? Where did that idea come from? Why am I "imagining" that? My very long "early period" of experiences were very classic shamanic initiation journeys: dismemberment, being burned alive, being cannibalized, being ripped apart, being put back together/rebuild, etc. I knew nothing about shamanism when I started, and didn't read up about it. These were just the things I saw in my head when I journeyed, so there's really very little way I could have come up with that content "on my own" since I had no idea that's what indicates "initiation" in shamanism! It was the practitioner I was learning from who had to interpret them for me and say, Hey, you're experiencing an initiation. You're being initiated *as* a shaman! I had no idea.

Since I'm still so new to astral projection, I've been trying the past month to get answers to all my questions from those I encounter while I'm out. So far no luck! I can't seem to find anyone who will give me a straight answer. But at least I can clearly "hear" people's responses. Eventually, I'll find out what the relation is between the shamanic journeys I experience, and the astral projection (what seems like the proper/traditional out of body experience). But I'm still pretty clueless =)

Anyway, thanks for the discussion! Great writers about the topic include Michael Harner, Sandra Ingerman, and Caitlin Matthews, for starters, in case people want to read more.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 23:27:42 by GrumpyRabbit » Logged
Lumaza
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2020, 05:18:06 »

Hi everyone. I'm new here,
Welcome GrumpyRabbit!  smiley

Quote
I've been going on shamanic journeys for the past 1.5 years, approximately. I started off by going to a guided group meditation on the winter solstice, and the experience was profound but unnerving. I wanted to look more into it, so found a local shamanic practitioner who teaches. I've been working on it ever since, and am currently in the healer's practicum (e.g., doing soul retrievals, power animal retrievals, that sort of thing).
Awesome! I have met some Shaman in my Ren Faire through the years. One I got to know as a friend used to make a point to stop by a talk to my better half and I every year. He and his wife volunteered every year sharing great stories of their culture. He was very well spoken and according to members of his entourage/Tribe, he was highly respected in his community. Although the time we spent talking was brief, it had a lasting impression on me!  cool

Quote
Just this month, I started astral projecting (I did it once in high school, but dismissed the experience). I wondered if I would encounter the same guides that I do while journeying, but it's completely different. There doesn't seem to be any overlap, so I'm really wondering about this. The OBEs are accompanied by things that will be familiar to you all - vibrations, feeling parts of my "body" lift/float up, the invisible "helping hands" carrying me where I want to go, or sometimes shooting straight up and out like I'm blasting through a wormhole. When I'm out, it seems like I'm seeing, hearing, and physically feeling things like I normally would, if not a little weird/distorted/unusual!

But shamanic journeying is very different for me. There's no vibrations or "leaving" my body, although the entire idea of shamanism is that you enter non-ordinary reality - the 'walkers between the worlds'. I use drumming (sometimes it's been live, but when I'm home by myself I use a recording through headphones). And it feels like regular visualization, but the kind where things seem to "pop into" my mind's eye, rather than me consciously driving a narrative/daydream, if that makes sense. Like, Where did that come from in my mind's eye? Where did that idea come from? Why am I "imagining" that? My very long "early period" of experiences were very classic shamanic initiation journeys: dismemberment, being burned alive, being cannibalized, being ripped apart, being put back together/rebuild, etc. I knew nothing about shamanism when I started, and didn't read up about it. These were just the things I saw in my head when I journeyed, so there's really very little way I could have come up with that content "on my own" since I had no idea that's what indicates "initiation" in shamanism! It was the practitioner I was learning from who had to interpret them for me and say, Hey, you're experiencing an initiation. You're being initiated *as* a shaman! I had no idea.
In my personal experience and what I see, Phasing sounds like the same thing as a "Vision Quest" or "Journeying". A Shaman will use Drumming, which achieves the same goal  as the use of Binaural Beats/Isochronic tones do, to shut down the left brain, to get you seeing with your "Mind's Eye". The use of Aya/DMT, Mushrooms and other mind altering substances work to achieve same goal as well. Here is a full definition of Phasing. It's basically a shift from "here" to "there", without all the bells and whistles, aka exit symptoms.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_the_astral_faq/what_is_phasing_and_how_can_i_do_it-t17413.0.html

 A classic OBE differs in these respects. Almost all of my OBEs came as the result of spontaneous SP (Sleep Paralysis} experiences. Like many others, during my first 100% consciously aware experience, I encountered what is known as the Dweller of the Threshold". How popular is this phenom? Popular enough to be given the name "Dweller of the Threshold"! In other words, it was a fear test. The Shaman knows full well that almost everyone on their initial "Vision Quest" or "Journey" is going to come face to face with their worst fears. That's why they are present there, so they can talk the person through the experience.  We can call the fear test the first hurdle. After a few Quests the experiences seem to be about breaking down or taming the "Ego", the I. The same thing is experienced in Astral Projection. You will find a similar pattern to the teachings you receive via the NPR (Non Physical Realities/Realms), otherwise know as the "Otherwhere", as Kurt Leland calls it. Szaxx, a Moderator here, shared a article in the past with a man that called it "Etheria". Both names are fitting here.

 OBEs seem to also lead to more of a RTZ (Real Time Zone), almost physical experience. Why? Because the mindset is still stuck on the physical. They still find the need to walk to move. They still see things as solids. In other words, they are still "limited" according to their beliefs. Many people report Demons or Demonic beings during their SP episodes. Why? Because they find themselves unable to move, in paralysis and now their mind goes into panic mode and creates the scariest thing imaginable. At that time, thought = action instantaneously. So their first thought of the Demonic being manifests right then and there. I have personally found that when you become aware in SP, you seem to be in a ultra heightened sense of awareness. It doesn't matter if you are exiting or re-entering the body. Yes that's right, you can have SP upon re-entering the body from a unconscious OBE that you just had. When that happens you seem to be aware that you just had some kind of profound experience, yet lack any recall of it. Then you find instead of the vibrations and Astral winds growing, they seem to be diminishing.
 
 I have had a few Phase sessions in the past that turned into a full OBE. They are very rare though. Normally they occur with me while doing some kind "Etheric" body exercise.

 Once they learn to passively observe while in SP and see it through, they will find a unique and educational adventure awaiting them. But first they must learn to confront and jump those hurdles.

 Good Luck and Safe Travels or should I say "Happy Journeying"!  smiley


« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 14:01:44 by Lumaza » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2020, 16:44:33 »

Hi GrumpyRabbit, Welcome!

Thanks for that introduction to shamanism. I haven't studied the art and know very little about it although I am somewhat familiar with the journey. I think there is a lot of crossover between Shamanic journeying, AP and OOBE. I would like to learn more, I'm a slow learner though, lol.

Funny you should mention drumming. Drumming seems to naturally draw my attention but what is funny is that I have never explored that. Perhaps you are here to further our education while we perhaps further yours. What you describe as a journey sounds very much like some of my own experiences that up until now I have had no words for so that is something to explore.

I'll have to check out those writers you shared, thank you. I hope you find what you are looking for.
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« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2020, 23:28:19 »

Thank you, Lumaza, I think that "phasing" might be how some shamans access non-ordinary reality. I hope you're right about encountering similar teachings, etc., during AP as with journeying. I'm quite stumped so far, because nothing is the same! Completely different locations, "guides," and methods of communication. I thought for sure, when I lifted up out of my physical body for the first time a few weeks ago (well, technically I did it once quasi-accidentally in high school, but not since), and I said/thought, Take me to my spirit guides! The helpful invisible hands came and carried me off, but I saw nothing and no one familiar. A real head-scratcher.

Nameless, we all have different "senses" that either capture our conscious attention, or lull us into a subconscious "transition" state, or trigger unconscious receptivity. Everyone has a different "pattern". A great book to discuss this and guide you through figuring out your pattern is The Open Mind by Dawna Markova. This is helpful to know, because you may learn that a different method will help you tap into the unconscious. Not everyone benefits the most from the same method! Some people use sound/drumming, others respond to movement, others visual input, for example, to go into trance. So, auditory might be more "conscious" perception for you, and thus drumming wouldn't be helpful for you to enter trance. E.g, I have a hard time listening to podcasts. I get distracted and often start daydreaming or my mind wanders, because I have nothing to LOOK at! There's no visual input. Visual seems to keep me conscious/paying attention. Just auditory starts sending me somewhere else. Some people need to move or pace to think, or stay focused. Some people need to doodle while listening to a lecture, for example, to "encode" the information. A really fascinating story from the book is how someone was doodling while listening to someone talk. Then he was unable to remember anything that had been said. So she asked him to retrace the doodle he just drew, and the act of retracing the doodle brought back all the information he encoded to his conscious awareness.

I'm always very happy to talk about any regarding shamanism, and definitely interested in figuring out the relation between shamanic journeying and astral projection. I hope this conversation with you all can continue =)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 23:37:09 by GrumpyRabbit » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2020, 03:58:19 »

Thank you, Lumaza, I think that "phasing" might be how some shamans access non-ordinary reality. I hope you're right about encountering similar teachings, etc., during AP as with journeying. I'm quite stumped so far, because nothing is the same! Completely different locations, "guides," and methods of communication. I thought for sure, when I lifted up out of my physical body for the first time a few weeks ago (well, technically I did it once quasi-accidentally in high school, but not since), and I said/thought, Take me to my spirit guides! The helpful invisible hands came and carried me off, but I saw nothing and no one familiar. A real head-scratcher.
It takes more than a few experiences to gain a level of control while Phasing or having a OBE. The first thing we have to do is to lose our expectations and just take what is "given or shown" to us for now. I think that is where people get frustrated with all of this. They read about someone's exciting adventure and expect to have one like it right off the get go. What I am many other here have found is you seem to get a few "byes". I call these "sneak peeks". After that, you need to work for them.

 My OBEs normally lead to RTZ experiences. My Phase sessions have no limitations. Both lead to different experiences per se. But in the end, they are both NPR experiences.

 There does seem to be some kind of systematic way of teaching in the lessons we are shown. I talked about the hurdles in my post above. I see the NPR to be filled with tests, quests and challenges, just as this "physical school here is". I created a thread here years ago with that title and a explanation of it as well.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/tests_quests_and_challenges-t46546.0.html

 I also wanted to respond on your comment to Nameless about you having the problem having your mind wander or that you experience daydreaming while just listening to something of a auditory nature. That's kind of what you want. i have created techniques to keep the "monkey mind" busy. While using them, you are supposed to "drift away". The further and quicker you release your physical focus, the faster you will find yourself in a NP one.
 You can find more about that in this thread here. I have fine tuned a techniques that works great for myself. I share many techniques there to help people be able to find something that works for them as well. My Doorway technique started with a focus on simple geometric shapes and colors. They led to imagery that was created by the mind associating things that correspond to those simple shapes, forms and colors. After a while I added some "etheric tactile" exercises to stimulate motion into the process. No technique is written in stone. They are all just "blueprints" and can be altered or tailored to whatever the person using them needs to be. That normally comes through practice and personal exploration though.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_doorway-t46013.0.html

 The Shaman creates a "walk through" of sorts that leads many times to a guided Journey. Anyone can create their own walk through. They just need to experiment and explore things for themselves.  But and this is where the real teachings begin, you will find that you will be challenged to come up with new things to lead you deeper. A technique that worked today will soon no longer work tomorrow. That in itself keeps always keeps you on your toes.

 There are many "self hypnosis" techniques and walk throughs that lead to trance as well. Once again though, they share similar traits to those of Phasing.                        

 Edit: Here is one of my favorite videos pertaining to the Shaman and a Shamanistic way of being:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=17&v=JNloOTQoRzA&feature=emb_logo
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 04:46:45 by Lumaza » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2020, 06:15:18 »

 After watching that video again and refreshing my mind on what it was saying I see why there is a difference. It's all based on "mindset" and yes expectation. The Shaman way of teaching is based on the "Spirit" and the "Soul". You hear terms like Spirit Helpers, Spirit Animals and Spirit Teachers. Robert Monroe came from the mindset of what he knew best and that was "frequency". Dr. Stanislov Grof uses "Holitropic Breathwork". Each of these Teachers have their own system of achieving the same thing. The thing is though, the Shaman way has more of a "lead in" as kind of setting the stage for what you will experience. The other teachers, Monroe, Grof, Buhlman, even my own techniques will lead you to your "Doorway", but don't create expectations on what you will see or experience once you get there.

 I often say, I will help you get "there", but what you see is up to you and your higher self, Others, etc. I have had people PMing me in the past that said they didn't care for my techniques because they seem  "devoid" of Spirit or more of a Spiritual focus. You can do any kind of preparative "ritual" that you wish. Some burn candles, some use Mantras. I personally have rituals that I use every time I do a Phase session. The first being most of the times my sessions are done in water. Then I have a Healing Mantra that focuses on the Elements. That Mantra is more of a mental spoken thing, but also includes visual representation or imagery that corresponds to the proper Element/Elemental. That's the way I "prime the pump" for a non local state of being. Then I just leave myself open to what I need to see or learn. I normally don't have a certain intent other than that.

 For the next few weeks though I am going to do a session on my lazy boy using solely Shamanic Drumming to achieve my trance state. You really got my curiosity peaked on how it will differ from my usual Phase sessions. My ritual will also be of a Shamanic nature using more a focus on the Spiritual aspects of all of this. I will use a mantra that aligns with a Shamanic Prayer as well. I love to explore new things and new frontiers!  smiley cool

 Thank you for joining our Forum here and for replying in this thread. I look forward to some of your own teachings!  smiley I know that DarknChildlike and others here will appreciate your knowledge as well.  cool
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 06:17:40 by Lumaza » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2020, 07:07:03 »

                       
 Edit: Here is one of my favorite videos pertaining to the Shaman and a Shamanistic way of being:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=17&v=JNloOTQoRzA&feature=emb_logo


Yes, I love Michael Harner! One of the authors I recommended. His book _The Way of the Shaman_ is a true classic. I remember watching this video a couple years ago a few months after I began journeying. I will be curious what you experience using drumming. Some shamans also dance and/or use rattles.

The funny thing, tho, is that when I started projecting a few weeks ago, I *expected* that I would see my regular crew of guides. Anything I expected, didn't happen. So at least I know that my "expectations" didn't influence what I saw! I appreciate the link you posted to the discussion of tests and challenges. I'm really stumped so far to understand what's happening in my astral projections. I have very clear intentions and questions, and I just don't see what's so hard about giving me some straight answers!

On that note, is there anywhere in this forum where people can post transcripts of their AP experiences (I type everything out in a Google Doc) to get feedback/analysis from others? Maybe some of you, who have been doing this for a long time, will recognize certain things. Like, Oh, what's happening here is XYZ. They're trying to teach ABC, etc. I'm still so new to the forum I haven't totally gotten the lay of the land, yet. Since I have only had ~7 APs over the past month, my Google Doc of those adventures isn't too long, yet! Not overwhelming reading =)

But if so, I'd be grateful for any insight, just let me know where it would be appropriate to put it. Thank you! Altho I've only been "here" for a short time, I'm quite happy with how kind and welcoming people are being!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 07:10:34 by GrumpyRabbit » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2020, 07:58:09 »

Yes, I love Michael Harner! One of the authors I recommended. His book _The Way of the Shaman_ is a true classic. I remember watching this video a couple years ago a few months after I began journeying. I will be curious what you experience using drumming. Some shamans also dance and/or use rattles.
I really enjoyed it as well. I love the passion that all in the video transmit!  smiley cool

Quote
The funny thing, tho, is that when I started projecting a few weeks ago, I *expected* that I would see my regular crew of guides. Anything I expected, didn't happen. So at least I know that my "expectations" didn't influence what I saw! I appreciate the link you posted to the discussion of tests and challenges. I'm really stumped so far to understand what's happening in my astral projections. I have very clear intentions and questions, and I just don't see what's so hard about giving me some straight answers!
Many of us here have the problems understanding why there is no simple yes or no answers. Yet, it seems to be the way of the NPR. So, we take what is given to us. Your questions will be answered in some way, shape or form, but a simple "yes or no" doesn't seem to be the way. I find my answers come through the tests, quests and challenges I incur. Case in point a few days ago a good friend asked for healing. I saw a outline of a body and saw that I should see it strong. Immediately though, a series of "etheric body movements" began to occur and I just knew then and there that this was something my friend needed to do. The one thing the NPR does give you is a very strong sense of "knowing".

Quote
On that note, is there anywhere in this forum where people can post transcripts of their AP experiences (I type everything out in a Google Doc) to get feedback/analysis from others? Maybe some of you, who have been doing this for a long time, will recognize certain things. Like, Oh, what's happening here is XYZ. They're trying to teach ABC, etc. I'm still so new to the forum I haven't totally gotten the lay of the land, yet. Since I have only had ~7 APs over the past month, my Google Doc of those adventures isn't too long, yet! Not overwhelming reading =)

But if so, I'd be grateful for any insight, just let me know where it would be appropriate to put it. Thank you! Altho I've only been "here" for a short time, I'm quite happy with how kind and welcoming people are being!
You can make a personal thread in this section here. I would love to read your adventures. I am lax on posting my own for a few reasons. One being I really do hate to type!  grin Another being, I find that other people seem to expect that they will have similar experiences and as I have seen, that doesn't seem to be the case!  undecided When they don't, they seem to get discouraged!
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_projection_experiences-b24.0/
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