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Author Topic: Something that's been bothering me...  (Read 3756 times)
Aaron330
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« on: November 23, 2014, 00:13:25 »

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. As a Christian, I always believed I would be in heaven forever with my parents, wife, children and other loved ones. However in recent years as my beliefs have radically shifted, I've come into quite a different understanding of how things work. In my last year or more of reading about NDE's, the Astral realms and such, I've run into a problem that I can't seem to find an answer to.

Will we ever be with or see our loved ones again after we leave this physical life? I've heard a few Tom Campbell lectures where he says that when you hear of people in NDE's meeting parents or loved ones when they die, he says "they are not really there. It's just data. The real person is already off in another life somewhere". I can't help but find this horribly depressing. I am very close with my mom in particular, and I can't imagine that when she dies, I'll never really get to be with her again. Whenever she says "I love you Aaron" I find myself almost tearing up when I reply "I love you too" because I can't stop thinking about the possibility that I might not see her again after she dies. And more recently its been happening with my wife. I can't bare the thought of losing these people forever into the realm of infinity after we pass away.

Can anyone answer from experience if they know whether or not this is true?
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 01:43:19 »

Hi Aaron!

I believe no one can really respond to your question with absolute certainty. I've always pondered the same thing myself, as I'm sure we all most probably have at one point or another. Sadly, my current personal view is that we will never see our friends, relatives and/or even pets ever again for "real" (i.e. them for themselves as opposed to projections of our own minds). I'd absolutely L O V E to be wrong about that one my friend ..but objective thinking plus gut feeling finds it highly improbable. However, on the upside, I believe that ultimately our individual consciousness's will all eventually expand to a point where we will understand the unity of all things. Hence, nothing is ever really 'lost' because all is one. Even when there is a permanent loss in certain aspects.

Both the physical and the non-physical are loaded with paradoxes!


Best regards.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 06:15:26 by Permanently Grounded » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2014, 01:43:19 »

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soarin12
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2014, 03:15:32 »

Have you ever read Destiny of Souls and and Journey of Souls by Michael Newton?  They are very interesting books to say the least and a different perspective than Tom. 

Toms seems to say that everyone reincarnates right away (after standing in some processing lines)  but there is so much other evidence that every one's afterlife time table is different , with choices available for the ones who are at least somewhat 'awakened.'

Many people seem to latch on to Tom's theories like they are the only ones out there (I'm not saying you are) and to my knowledge he doesn't even share his direct experiences that lead him to his conclusions.  I'm not putting him down -he's a good and wise person for sure, but there's other reputable people out there.

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EscapeVelocity
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2014, 03:50:25 »

This is a great question Aaron! This should provoke some interesting answers.

As soarin12 points out, the two books by Michael Newton indicate realtime reconciliation between souls...but it may be a difference of perspective.

As Szaxx often tells us, we may be thinking about this from too much of a physical world perspective. Our viewpoint requires an expansion that we may not be capable of, much less ready for.

I will just toss out some ideas.

Everything is a form of energy. Every energy is a form of consciousness, or has a level of consciousness/awareness, however limited.

We all exist and have consciousness/awareness available (eventually) in multi-dimensions simultaneously.

Awareness/communication is available to us once we develop it.

The 'data', as Tom puts it, is just sitting there, waiting to be charged with awareness.

So Tom Campbell's theoretical implication that  we may run into a loved one's memory/energetic data imprint and be disappointed in its lack of immediacy, only indicates a lack of energetic exchange/communication. What is left for us to realize in our development is that we can exist in multiple dimensions and be in constant contact with those we choose, wherever else they may be. And we eventually will be...that is one of our future goals.

This is indicated by your post and the incredible emotional realization you just shared with us. Thank you.

Something else occurs to me -Are you still disappointed if all you get from me is a voicemail? Or a letter?

My instinct tells me we meet again, with those we love; but we may have to expand a few parameters.

This is at the same time such a simple thing and yet, a grand, complex interplay of interconnected souls and energies that goes beyond our understanding. Would you have it any other way? grin

« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 04:11:03 by EscapeVelocity » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2014, 04:36:08 »

I strongly disagree with Tom Campbell's theory about reincarnation and loved ones' spirits. We do not reincarnate ride away and plus time is irrelevant in the higher frequency realities. Our spirits exist in many places simultaneously. During APs I often meet my sister, who is alive. But I encounter her spirit, which is focused there. And when spirits are connected, they find one another just by thinking about each other. Very often she remembers our encounters in form of dreams. So, I have evidence that it was her, and not some data.
Also, I meet my father often. He passed away eight years ago and this was the most devastated time of my life. We have a strong connection and when I meet him, I feel such an incredible happiness, that I know it is him. No one can convince me other way. One life time of reincarnation may seem like a blink of an eye to the spirit. In the astral the journey continues. The evolution of spirits takes place everywhere. It is not just physical reality and heaven. It's not so black and white. And again, time is just an illusion here. I am surprised Tom does not take that into consideration before he forms a theory. You can't just say uncle Sam is not there anymore because he died and reincarnated 10 years ago and he is a different personality now. There is no such a thing as THEN and NOW.

Go with your instincts Aaron. Do not believe everything you read.
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Kzaal
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2014, 05:50:49 »

I believe pretty much the same thing as everyone here... Time doesn't matter up there.
I think that before reincarnation we can stay there for a long time before we go to another body... Some time to take a break.
If one would become enlightened and stop reincarnating he'd stay up there while others go, but things would be explained before others go!
If I had a friend but I would be enlightened and would stay up there and they had to go, I'd like to tell them I'll wait for them to complete the reincarnation process no matter what their Higher Self looks like. Even if they are different. No matter how many lives they have left to go.
I think we are allowed to do such a thing.
Maybe they won't remember us!
At least that's what I think, but this is such a deep subject
As an enlightened being I think you are able to see what's going on with a person in the process of reincarnation, so you can tell when they're back.
That person probably won't remember you but you would.
So that every time they reincarnates you can tell them you knew them in from a past life and that you're proud of the progress they did.
That you will support them as they go toward their enlightenment and you will unveil yourself to them when they are done.
Boost their moral up and calm their spirit as they go toward reincarnation I think.
In the end, if we all reincarnate, we probably know everyone up there, and everyone probably knows us too.
To me that would be the most probable thing that can happen.
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2014, 10:06:18 »

I can explain a little of what I heard especially since your upset and worried. I think I can help a little. The spirits I work with are human and live in Heaven. So they're not reincarnated. They gave me considerable evidence as to their identity. I'm satisfied that it is not a deception. So heaven exists. Our afterlife is dynamic. That means that we don't sit around in John's vision of Revelation. We grow and we continue to live and learn after we pass. Some of that learning comes in the form of incarnations. Some of that learning comes while in spirit. The afterlife appears to be just as challenging and interesting as physical life.

Sometimes we have to learn something before we can be with God in heaven and it creates a condition where we have to come back. Heaven isn't so much a place as it is a state of unity with the Father. You don't have to die to experience this.
Relationships with each other are the single most important thing next to our relationship with God. That is both in our lives now and in our natural spiritual state. You will not lose anyone.  If someone is doing a project or incarnation you may not be able to communicate with them til they're back in spirit but that is a temporary thing. No consciousness is ever extinguished. My experience with God is that he treasures each human being as his child. A part of him is in us which allows us to be united with him.

This is  based on my own personal interactions with God and with human spirits who live in Heaven.
 
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Volgerle
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2014, 14:40:28 »

Have you ever read Destiny of Souls and and Journey of Souls by Michael Newton?  They are very interesting books to say the least and a different perspective than Tom.
Tom in his forum praised this book. He just added that it only gives a limited view of possibilties in the afterlife. Earth is one school and some 'souls' seem to bound there somehow in a "karmic cycle" which is rather of their own making instead of realising that they can go to other schools and have other experiences. M. Newton just writes about souls experiencing the Earth school. However I remember that he wrote about transfers too. I recommend the books of Dolores Cannon to read about lots of souls that come here who have experienced other 'schools' before (realities, planets, universes, levels and ways of existence in a vessel of whatever kind ..).

Toms seems to say that everyone reincarnates right away (after standing in some processing lines)
I might have seen other lectures by him because this is not what I remember that he is saying. He says that you are cared for and many things that coincide with Newton's findings, e.g. that you do a life review. So there is some 'stay period' in the 'after' or "in-between"-life (both terms I still find wrong, because I think it is our 'real' life and physicality is the illusion - but anyway here we go).

Many people seem to latch on to Tom's theories like they are the only ones out there (I'm not saying you are) and to my knowledge he doesn't even share his direct experiences that lead him to his conclusions.  I'm not putting him down -he's a good and wise person for sure, but there's other reputable people out there.
Indeed, he is maybe not right about everything but gives some good clues as to the underlying nature of reality. He wants people to find out themselves by learning the techniques, that is why he does not give his own accounts, so he says.
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2014, 22:46:34 »

Tom in his forum praised this book. He just added that it only gives a limited view of possibilties in the afterlife. Earth is one school and some 'souls' seem to bound there somehow in a "karmic cycle" which is rather of their own making instead of realising that they can go to other schools and have other experiences. M. Newton just writes about souls experiencing the Earth school. However I remember that he wrote about transfers too. I recommend the books of Dolores Cannon to read about lots of souls that come here who have experienced other 'schools' before (realities, planets, universes, levels and ways of existence in a vessel of whatever kind ..).
I might have seen other lectures by him because this is not what I remember that he is saying. He says that you are cared for and many things that coincide with Newton's findings, e.g. that you do a life review. So there is some 'stay period' in the 'after' or "in-between"-life (both terms I still find wrong, because I think it is our 'real' life and physicality is the illusion - but anyway here we go).
Indeed, he is maybe not right about everything but gives some good clues as to the underlying nature of reality. He wants people to find out themselves by learning the techniques, that is why he does not give his own accounts, so he says.


I saw the short version 15 min. clip of Tom on reincarnation, not a whole lecture.  It definitely gave the feeling that you'd be coming back to earth real quick, but in light of what you say above it was probably meant to be taken in a general way.  Like - the process is 'something like this'  rather than  'exactly like this'.  Good to know he is more flexible than he sometimes comes off.

Still he says that when you meet your family they are fake (just data), which seems oh so cheap to me.  Worse than cheap.  More like betrayal.  The Michael Newton books take the position that your family is really your family. Your consciousness can exist on the earth plane and the heavenly plane at the same time.  That resonates much better with me.
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Aaron330
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2014, 02:00:14 »

Thanks guys for your responses. I especially enjoyed LightBeam and Soarin's comments as they resonate strongly with what I feel (or hope) inside. I had that exact question when listening to Tom Campbell's lecture on this. If the Astral exists outside of "time" as we know it here, then it wouldn't matter if your loved ones had "gone on to a new life" or not, correct? They could both be fully present in the Astral with you and in another incarnation at "the same time".

It just doesn't seem right that we (consciousness) would create a Universe in which we incarnate as physical beings and share the deepest and most intimate forms of love with one another as family, only to have those bonds and relationships lost forever once we die. The idea that I will never truly be with my mom or dad again after they pass is psychologically devastating to me. And if that's the truth of the matter, I don't know how I will ever cope with their deaths. This in and of itself leads me to believe that the truth has to be better than that.

This is just one of the many questions I have which drive me every single day to learn how to project and find the answers for myself.
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2014, 18:41:07 »

The idea that I will never truly be with my mom or dad again after they pass is psychologically devastating to me. And if that's the truth of the matter, I don't know how I will ever cope with their deaths. This in and of itself leads me to believe that the truth has to be better than that.
I think we just need to remember that the person you knew and loved as 'Mom' and 'Dad' was the "Being / Soul / Higher Self" incarnating into this role. I believe whom you meet again actually is their Higher Self, they might 'appear' still as Mom and Dad to you when they are in the re-adjustment "period" in the LbL-environments ("astral heavens" or whatever you want to call it), like maybe you will be the 'person' too. But it is a role that will be dropped sooner or later, be it for another incarnation or just be a re-alignment (becoming 'bigger') with your Higher Being (Self).

I think that the Love and relationship between you and them (your parents in this life) is certainly real and remains forever (- I assume it was there before this life too already), but it is maybe a bit different then, more "real" in a spiritual sense, but not as 'parent-son' because this is the Earth game. Maybe like (soul) mates or buddies or sisters/brothers or sth similar, we cannot know for sure of course as we do not remember it down here. Just my two cents.
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2014, 19:16:59 »

I strongly disagree with Tom Campbell's theory about reincarnation and loved ones' spirits. We do not reincarnate ride away and plus time is irrelevant in the higher frequency realities. Our spirits exist in many places simultaneously. During APs I often meet my sister, who is alive. But I encounter her spirit, which is focused there. And when spirits are connected, they find one another just by thinking about each other. Very often she remembers our encounters in form of dreams. So, I have evidence that it was her, and not some data.
Also, I meet my father often. He passed away eight years ago and this was the most devastated time of my life. We have a strong connection and when I meet him, I feel such an incredible happiness, that I know it is him. No one can convince me other way. One life time of reincarnation may seem like a blink of an eye to the spirit. In the astral the journey continues. The evolution of spirits takes place everywhere. It is not just physical reality and heaven. It's not so black and white. And again, time is just an illusion here. I am surprised Tom does not take that into consideration before he forms a theory. You can't just say uncle Sam is not there anymore because he died and reincarnated 10 years ago and he is a different personality now. There is no such a thing as THEN and NOW.

Go with your instincts Aaron. Do not believe everything you read.

Couldn't agree more!
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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2014, 19:09:27 »

I strongly disagree with Tom Campbell's theory about reincarnation and loved ones' spirits. We do not reincarnate right away and plus time is irrelevant in the higher frequency realities.
I agree, and I'm sure Tom would agree with you as well.  It's not that he says you reincarnate "right away".  It's that you reincarnate "eventually". 
The point he makes is that you, as an awareness in consciousness is that you don't hang around there forever... how long you stick around, however, is up in the air.
But for example, I wouldn't to run into, say, my grandfather who died 20 years ago and expect that to really be "him".  Smiley

I'm not so certain that time is completely irrelevant, but yeah... it would be hard to say how time flows in different realities which we don't experience on a consistent basis. 

Going back to Aaron's original post...
There are certain "truths" you come to as you proceed down the path you're on.
One of those truths is the truth of what you *are* and what reality *is*.  When you come to that one, it should provide you with some release on this issue.  Smiley
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« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2014, 19:45:09 »


The point he makes is that you, as an awareness in consciousness is that you don't hang around there forever... how long you stick around, however, is up in the air.
But for example, I wouldn't to run into, say, my grandfather who died 20 years ago and expect that to really be "him".  Smiley


I think that no events are ever erased from existence. So, it really comes down to what point in existence you focus your awareness. I disagree with Tom's theory on "data" and not the real personality. Definitely we can form out of thoughts some personalities, but the real ones still exist, somewhere in the pages of the Multiverse book. Time does not restrict us "when" (as a point) we can focus upon and interact. And again, this time life we are experiencing lets say 100 years, may be like a blink of an eye out there. That I don't know, but we cant judge the flow in the astral from our physical time laws and perspectives.
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« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2014, 14:26:33 »

Toms seems to say that everyone reincarnates right away (after standing in some processing lines)  but there is so much other evidence that every one's afterlife time table is different , with choices available for the ones who are at least somewhat 'awakened.'

Oh, please don't make me reincarnate. Ever again.
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Blue Glitter Neon
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« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2014, 14:50:03 »

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. As a Christian, I always believed I would be in heaven forever with my parents, wife, children and other loved ones. However in recent years as my beliefs have radically shifted, I've come into quite a different understanding of how things work. In my last year or more of reading about NDE's, the Astral realms and such, I've run into a problem that I can't seem to find an answer to.

Will we ever be with or see our loved ones again after we leave this physical life? I've heard a few Tom Campbell lectures where he says that when you hear of people in NDE's meeting parents or loved ones when they die, he says "they are not really there. It's just data. The real person is already off in another life somewhere". I can't help but find this horribly depressing. I am very close with my mom in particular, and I can't imagine that when she dies, I'll never really get to be with her again. Whenever she says "I love you Aaron" I find myself almost tearing up when I reply "I love you too" because I can't stop thinking about the possibility that I might not see her again after she dies. And more recently its been happening with my wife. I can't bare the thought of losing these people forever into the realm of infinity after we pass away.

Can anyone answer from experience if they know whether or not this is true?

Interestingly, I might come from exactly the opposite position from you. I pretty much have no wish to meet the "loved ones" of my family again after death. What if family members want to keep in touch with you and you don't?

My deceased father showing up in my dreams from time to time is quite enough. He kind of just "pops in".

First you go like, "but hey, aren't you supposed to be dead?". Then all forms of explanations and excuses present themselves as to why he is there etc. Of course, you don't want to appear unfriendly either, so you try expressing some mild sympathy. It's unsettling.

Sometimes though, it almost makes you want to go: "Quit fxxxing bugging me! Don't you think you did that enough in real life!"

And yeah, I was raised a Christian too.


Hope you get to spend as much time with your 'real' family as possible, though. If that's what you want. Also, according to Jurgen Ziewe in Multidimensional Man, that's certainly appears possible and happens quite a lot. "Like attracts like", right?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 19:57:33 by Blue Glitter Neon » Logged
Aaron330
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2014, 09:35:24 »

I think we just need to remember that the person you knew and loved as 'Mom' and 'Dad' was the "Being / Soul / Higher Self" incarnating into this role. I believe whom you meet again actually is their Higher Self, they might 'appear' still as Mom and Dad to you when they are in the re-adjustment "period" in the LbL-environments ("astral heavens" or whatever you want to call it), like maybe you will be the 'person' too. But it is a role that will be dropped sooner or later, be it for another incarnation or just be a re-alignment (becoming 'bigger') with your Higher Being (Self).

I think that the Love and relationship between you and them (your parents in this life) is certainly real and remains forever (- I assume it was there before this life too already), but it is maybe a bit different then, more "real" in a spiritual sense, but not as 'parent-son' because this is the Earth game. Maybe like (soul) mates or buddies or sisters/brothers or sth similar, we cannot know for sure of course as we do not remember it down here. Just my two cents.

This post was very helpful as well Volgerle, thank you. I completely agree about the Higher self concept and that's all that really matters to me. I was never trying to say that it is their physical body and presence that I will miss, but just them as a person and who they are in general, our relationship, etc. I love the idea of knowing another soul via many incarnations and sharing love through many different types of human relationship. I actually read a book by a Near Death Experiencer named Nanci Danison who described that exact thing in her book "Backwards: Returning to Our Source for Answers". She says that she learned how we all choose our lives, and what souls will incarnate with us. The idea that we choose to incarnate with our most beloved soul-mates and choose to experience different human relationships with one another. As long as I know that I'm not really losing my parents or wife or children when we each pass away, then death of a loved one will be much easier to deal with for me.
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Aaron330
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2014, 09:36:46 »

There are certain "truths" you come to as you proceed down the path you're on.
One of those truths is the truth of what you *are* and what reality *is*.  When you come to that one, it should provide you with some release on this issue.  Smiley

Thank you Xanth, I truly hope to discover this truth for myself as well. In fact, it's probably the main reason why I got into AP in the first place.
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