Hi new still working on first AP

[Bluefirephoenix]

Hi I'm new I'm still working towards a first projection. It seems the main problem is holding a stable trance. I start having vibrations and loose the trance. I've also had trouble because I messed up my back and laying in one position hurts  What I've been doing has been to loosen up and do some energy work... it's  a similar idea to Bruces but it's different and works better for me.   I have a piece of music by Liquid mind that I listen to for the relaxation part and another for trance induction. maybe chug down some painkillers so I'm not in agony when I'm doing this but I was worried they'd interfere.

What confuses me is this going up and down the ladder thing. I'm not sure when to start going up.

  In hte past I had been out a couple times before thinking it was some kind of levetation but then realized after reading about AP that I was not physically doing that. So I know I can do it just have to figure out What I did before. I felt like I was floating with very strong vibrations ( Riding a Harley down a Cape Breton road) Heck it was more fun than a vibrating bed!!!!!

[blis]

I've projected on painkillers several times. Nothing particularly strong though just paracetamol and anti-inflamatories. Unless the ones you're on get you high I wouldnt worry about it.

[Naykid]

I have two herniated disk and can very much relate.  I am very lucky that the Chiropractor taught me how to do some exercises that push the hernia back in, leaving me in relatively pain free until it pops again.

I can't take painkillers, they make me puking sick, so I'm not sure if it would have negative effects on trying to project or not.  I would think it might make you fuzzy brained and in too much of a deep sleep to do much of anything.   

[personalreality]

Well, opiate pain killers are a double-edged sword.

They never really effected my mind too terribly much.  But, they make you sleepy so it can be difficult to stay awake.  Here's the crap part though, when I was on opiate medication I achieved my first projection and had many more projections, at least a few times a week.  However, once I got off of the medication I was unable to stay still, which to this day is a problem.  I guess in my case, the opiates helped me relax and stay in the trance state.  I think that with adequate relaxation though, this could be overcome.

As for the ladder, you go down the ladder to induce trance.  Remember though, in regards to projection, trance isn't just about the body but the mind as well.  If you properly entrance your body and mind, then you'll come to a point where you feel like you've expanded or raised just slightly beyond the confines of your body.  This is when you climb up the ladder to get out.  Personally though, the ladder/rope stuff always kept me to awake.  TO induce trance I'll usually visualize falling and recreating that sensation of falling in my body.  Then narrow your consciousness by focusing on one thing and letting go of the need to stay awake (you need to be relatively close to sleep).

On a side note, don't let yourself become too reliant on all those external things (like the music and pills).

[Bluefirephoenix]

The painkiller I was thinking of was Ibuprofin. Narcs do nothing for this kind of pain and make me sick. They're actually counterproductive because you build a tolerance to them then if you have to have surgery they don't work for post op pain.

 Anyway last night
I managed to move a hand and close a fist I was waking off a dream trying to grip something I grabbed it then woke up like that but my physical hand was down on the bed.  I had to look at it to realize I wasn't moving my physical hand boy was that weird.  Now on occasion I do get into a a state where I think I'm in a trance ( getting the explanding feeling you just described)  and when I try to leave I get a sense of pressure on my forehead and in my chest. But thats as far as it goes. Not sure how to get past that.  It's frustrating because I feel like I'm having things happen that are close but not quite making it.  The times I get there I work til exausted trying to break free.  I cannot consistently produce the trance.
I also notice a change in the quality of the dreams I have when I do this work. They tend to be more cohesive and I remember more 

[Naykid]

Ibuprofin is A-OK. in my book, won't muddle anything.  I thought you were talking prescription painkillers. 

[Xanth]

Ibuprofin is A-OK. in my book, won't muddle anything.  I thought you were talking prescription painkillers. 

I'm definitely with Nay on this one.
Ibuprofin should have no effect on your conscious mind. 

[personalreality]

I think your mind is too awake. 

I actually just listened to a relaxation reinforcement hemi-sync track of Monroe's (The Journey's Out of the Body Hemi-Sync) and I noticed that at one point he's doing his count up to 10 to help you get more relaxed (meaning he's trying to get you to the 10-state...eh).  Before he started counting he kept talking about how your body will be asleep and your mind will be bright and awake.  It made me think back to when I had my first successful projection and how having a "bright and awake mind" was the one thing holding me back all the times I had tried before.  It took a VERY narrow awareness to actually achieve projection and I don't think that a lot of people are taught to make sure their mind is entranced as well as their body.  After I read Robert Peterson, I learned how to narrow my awareness/consciousness to a point, to where I was almost asleep and that was how I achieved my first projection. 

So, perhaps you should look into Robert Peterson's two books, as he explains the mind state necessary for projection better than most other authors I've read. 

[Xanth]

After I read Robert Peterson, I learned how to narrow my awareness/consciousness to a point, to where I was almost asleep and that was how I achieved my first projection. 

So, perhaps you should look into Robert Peterson's two books, as he explains the mind state necessary for projection better than most other authors I've read. 

Was there a particular exercise at the end of one of the chapters that you could recommend?

[personalreality]

You know I said Robert Peterson and not John Magnus right?

I don't remember where in the RP books, or if it was the first or second, I'll have to check when I get home.  But I recall him talking about the "Quiescent Mind" as being like your mind is when you see lightening and then pause to wait for the thunder.  In that moment you tend to shut off everything in your mind and focus all of your attention to your ears so that you can hear better.  That moment, of just a few seconds, is the mind state he says is 'required' to achieve projection. 

He's also the one who recommends using the natural ringing in your ears as a focusing device.  So it's not so much a laid out method as it is just a better understanding of what your mind needs to be doing when projecting.  I've been saying it a bit lately, but it's come to my attention that a lot of folks out there are neglecting their state of mind.  Because of Monroe, everyone seems to think your mind should be wide awake through the whole process, but that's just not the case.  You need to entrance your mind as well as your brain and that takes you down to a narrow point of awareness.  And you need to hold that narrow awareness until the separation occurs.  As soon as you separate though, the entirety of your conscious awareness returns instantly. 

[Bluefirephoenix]

Robert Peterson as in Bob peterson from Minnisota?!!!  I know his brother!!!!!  If it's the same one and I'm pretty sure it is. I didn't know he was writing.  What did he write? I definetly want to get it if he's writing.
I get totally what your saying. My work (RN) requires a great deal of forced alertness for one thing and I have trouble letting go for another. I have to work two night shifts a week.

 I think also that maybe I should not worry about what others say and work more off intuition. I know how  powerful that can be.

[Pauli2]

Robert Peterson as in Bob peterson from Minnisota?!!!  I know his brother!

What did he write?

See http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_book_reviews/free_bob_petersons_1st_book_amp_excerpts_from_the_2nd-t18872.0.html

[Xanth]

You know I said Robert Peterson and not John Magnus right?

Yup!  Robert Peterson. 
It was actually one of the first couple AP books, I believe, that I bought.

I don't remember where in the RP books, or if it was the first or second, I'll have to check when I get home.  But I recall him talking about the "Quiescent Mind" as being like your mind is when you see lightening and then pause to wait for the thunder.  In that moment you tend to shut off everything in your mind and focus all of your attention to your ears so that you can hear better.  That moment, of just a few seconds, is the mind state he says is 'required' to achieve projection. 

I think I know the one you're referring to.  I'll give it a read tonight.  Thanks!

He's also the one who recommends using the natural ringing in your ears as a focusing device.  So it's not so much a laid out method as it is just a better understanding of what your mind needs to be doing when projecting.  I've been saying it a bit lately, but it's come to my attention that a lot of folks out there are neglecting their state of mind.  Because of Monroe, everyone seems to think your mind should be wide awake through the whole process, but that's just not the case.  You need to entrance your mind as well as your brain and that takes you down to a narrow point of awareness.  And you need to hold that narrow awareness until the separation occurs.  As soon as you separate though, the entirety of your conscious awareness returns instantly.

I guess Monroe was a master at doing just that. 

[personalreality]

Must have been.

And yes bluefire, Peterson is from Minnesooota eh.

[Bluefirephoenix]

Fooney  I'm a recent immigrant and have picked up neither the Tim's nor the " eh" vice.

However I am noticing an interesting trend. It appears that activities that increase endorphine levels also increase the success of projecting.  It's a substance produced in the body under natural stress such as exercise that is narcotic like in action. I've had an accidental projection while taking a narcotic and I noticed a couple other's had too. The drugs while not exactly the same as the endorphines are similar. It's interesting, and worth looking into if try to AP within 4 hours of strenuous exercise I wonder if it increases the chances of success. hmmmm. It's certainly easy enough to try out.  THink about it meditation, yoga fasting and dancing alll supposedly are positive influences all facilitate the release of the hormone. Injury does too, but probably not a good idea you know.