Finally got a date!

[Chris]

Once I was able to get a street address and state off the license plate of a car.  I still haven't verified it though.

 

[Tia]

How detailed was the decor?  You can trace a lot through the design.  Could you draw one of the lighting fixtures for example?  Or the mantelpeice? Then look up the design, you may not be able to pinpoint an exact building but you could narrow down to a particular area.  It would also confirm the date, and who knows what else...      

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Intriguing...and no, I haven't verified a date, although I have had somewhat similar experiences.  I am also interested by the date- Dec. 23 has a special significance for me (religously) and it seems to pop up quite often.  Keep us updated.

"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

[PeacefulWarrior]

Any news on this Frank??  If so, let us know.

-Daniel

fides quaerens intellectum

[Frank]

It has been a while since the last one, but got another date this morning on a coin: 1926. It was an English penny. Problem was, I got a little excited at having read the thing and all kinds of reality fluctuations came into play.

The place I was in was definitely of that period. I could tell by the decor (Victorian) and the way people were dressed. Funny thing is, it was a similar period and surroundings to the place I was at the last time I got a date. So there must be some kind of connection, somewhere.

Another morning, another mystery.

Yours,
Frank

 

[Patty]

Hi Frank,

That's fascinating! Are these places you sort of phase into?  It must not be realtime, if it is 80 years ago, or does realtime not reflect time as much as physicality?  I thought that the English celebrated boxing day instead of christmas ---(shows you what a dimwit yank I am) -- so first I thought that the pub might be a New England locale. But I gather that y'all celebrate both?

I hope my recent reality fluctuations didn't add in some small part (through bringing it to your conscious attention or something) to your reality fluctuations.

Have you tried any searches with those dates, just to see if there is something that 'feels' right and might give you a clue?

Patty

[BriMercer]

I hope you can answer my question, Frank.

After years and years of reading accounts of real-time and astral projections (and having had some personal experiences like this myself), I wonder if you can explain this situation:

Someone goes OBE.  Everything about the projection seems valid and "real", but then someone in the locale to which the OBE'er is projecting begins to talk to the projectee.  In the example of your original post, you recount talking to folks in this British men's club even though you (I would think) have no body for people to see nor lips from which to speak.

I've had experiences in which everything about my projection experience seemed like a valid OBE and then someone who I wouldn't think could see me, strikes up a conversation.

Even stranger I find that, as common as this experience is in reading OBE accounts, no one seems to questions why this is.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

Brian

 

[quant]

Patty.

The English celebrate crhistmas, not because we are English, but because of it's relation to religion.  Well, true religious people do, but most will just celebrate it because everyone else does

 

[Patty]

Thanks Quant. I need to get out more. Or at least connect a few more synapses. Doesn't "A Christmas Carol" take place in London?

Hi Brian,

     Well, I certainly question it. Lots of explanations have been offered, too.  Hard to know if any of them are close to the mark or not. RB's thoughts at least have some predictive value --- if his thinking is right (that a dream can happen at the same time as a projection, and the merged memory of both can result in some fragments that make sense and others that don't) then somehow preventing dreaming should make the OBE have fewer inconsistencies.  Or something like that. He has ideas on how to delay dreaming.  I plan to try them next time 'out.'

     Equally perplexing are the OBE's where you see some odd thing - like, I don't know, a man mowing the street.... And then the next day you're in a new part of town and you see the man mowing the street ----

Hard to figure out what is wishful thinking, what is 'just dreaming,' whether any of it is actually 'real.'  Or what possible value there is in seeing some weird thing that doesn't seem to bear on anything.

Care to share your OBE's? Please? I'd love to hear your experiences! It sounds like they are spontaneous?

Sincerely skeptical but still projecting enthusiastically,

Patty

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by BriMercer:
I hope you can answer my question, Frank.

After years and years of reading accounts of real-time and astral projections (and having had some personal experiences like this myself), I wonder if you can explain this situation:

Someone goes OBE.  Everything about the projection seems valid and "real", but then someone in the locale to which the OBE'er is projecting begins to talk to the projectee.  In the example of your original post, you recount talking to folks in this British men's club even though you (I would think) have no body for people to see nor lips from which to speak.

I've had experiences in which everything about my projection experience seemed like a valid OBE and then someone who I wouldn't think could see me, strikes up a conversation.

Even stranger I find that, as common as this experience is in reading OBE accounts, no one seems to questions why this is.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

Brian
 

Brian, if I may respectfully point out, your thinking is based on faulty premise, i.e. within the Astral I have, "no body for people to see nor lips from which to speak" and that no-one should be able to see you.  

Yes, I do have a body that basically resembles my physical body. Everyone has one. As for Astral residents seeing you, that depends on their circumstances.

Sometimes residents won't see you because they are totally engrossed in some behavioural loop. Other times, as in the pub, they will chat to you just as if you were another member of the group (which can often be a whacky experience).

Sometimes they chat with you and they know what you are. That is to say, some kind of "visitor" (occasionally your presence can attract quite a crowd). Other times you can have a bit of fun, like, I was chatting to these three guys just recently. They knew I didn't belong in the place where we were at, so they were curious as to where I was from. I strung them a line about how I was this time-traveller from another planet.

I gave the three of them quite a laugh. They naturally thought I was joking, and I'd have loved to have seen the looks on their faces when I disolved back to the Physical right before their eyes.

The more evolved Astral residents can see you and have no problems recognising you for what you are. In fact, they instantly know all about you as they have the ability to communicate mind-to-mind. So they can instantly read what is in your mind. Given practice, you too can learn to do the same.

The Astral is an infinite place, populated by all kinds of interesting residents, that provide a never-ending source of learning. In fact, during the course of a month, say, I actually interact with more Astral-residents than I do Physical-residents.

However, the one *big* problem with the Astral is keeping your emotions in check. Otherwise all kinds of reality fluctuations will come into play, which can easily prevent you from interacting with Astral residents with the requisite degree of stability. This touches on Patty's point about dreaming whilst having an obe. Yes, this is perfectly possible though I call it a "buffer experience".

A "buffer experience" is where you have multiple sets of images each overlaying the other to a greater or lesser extent.

First, you have the Astral proper and whatever is happening at the region where you find yourself. Now, if you can remain completely closed, emotionally, you will be able to interact with your surroundings, i.e. chat with other residents that may be open to you, contact spirit-guides for guidance on particular issues you want to know about, etc., etc.

However, what naturally tends to happen is, there is a strong tendency to react emotionally to your surroundings. This release of emotional fuel will create imagery around you that will justify whatever it is you are feeling emotional about.

This imagery can become so thick that it completely blocks your experience of the Astral proper. Or if the emotional release was immediately checked, it creates a situation where you can still see the Astral proper, but it looks like you are seeing it through a kind of "heat haze" which goes away as the emotional fuel is used up.  

Yours,
Frank

[cainam_nazier]

Frank,

    I was wondering if since you said you were starting to get a couple of dates from the same time era, of it possably being past life memories that you are experiencing some times?  Does that make sence?

   They could be past life memories from the same life since there was only a 2 year split (24-26).  I was just wondering if you thought of that as a possability?



David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com
I am he who walks in the light but is masked by the shadows.

[Frank]

Yes, I have to say the thought did cross my mind.

During the early eighties, right when I very first started to obe, in my spare time I was involved in buying and selling antique furniture. Pieces from the Victorian era featured prominently. I also like to work with my hands and, as a hobby, I'd also renovate Victorian mirrors (the types with the plaster-cast ornimental frames) and stained-glass windows. Most of which were from the Victorian era. At the time I also lived in a house that was situated in England's first (what were called) Victorian Garden Suburbs.

Obviously, it could simply be the case that my past Physical experiences are dictating my Astral experiences to a greater or lesser degree. Which is why I'm keeping an entirely open mind on the matter. But it's definitely food for thought. The weirdest aspect was that it was basically the same setting. Though I cannot say whether it was, in fact, the same place.

Yours,
Frank  



 

[BriMercer]

Thank you, Frank.  I guess my presumption was that you were in the "real-time" zone when you were in that men's club, only in the "past", if that makes any sense.  What you are saying is that you were in the astral and the other blokes were simply astral residents or people having an OBE or some such thing.

Here is a personal example of what I'm trying to reconcile.  I have an OBE early one night and transition to my parents house 900 mile away.  I see the house as it should be, without reality fluctuations, and there is my mother, puttering around the house as she often does at night.  But then she turns to me and reacts to my presence, as if I'm there *physically* and not astrally.

I've read other accounts by young projectors who leave their body, move out of their bedroom and down the hall, only to see their father or mother pass by and say "hello" to them.  

In this case, are we in some kind of real-time zone copy?  This is what confuses me.

Re: dream elements imposing themselves on the projection experience, how does one practice keeping calm?  Is it simply a matter of meditation practice?

I've experienced some of that "mind-to-mind" communication in the astral and it is a pretty powerful experience.  I just recently got over on such experience with a female friend that took place about 15 years ago.  Wow, wouldn't I like to do *that* again!

Brian

 

[Patty]

Hi Bri,

R. Bruce recommends looking at your hands every few seconds/minutes while projecting. If you are consciously aware within your projected double in the real time zone,  and your body is drifting towards dreams in the bedroom, then looking at your hands is supposed to send a shock back to your sleeping body which jolts it to a lighter type of sleep. This can prolong the onset of dreams.

RB also says that your double's hands will melt when you look at them during a projection.  This sounds like a reasonable (albeit not foolproof) way to ask whether you are truly projecting or are in some other strange state of consciousness (I have had some experiences that seem intermediate between AP and LD, so this might be a way to distinguish the two.)

He  also says that it takes practice, practice, practice to stabilize the experience for any appreciable length of time. Emotion in particular will create reality fluctuations, as well as the thoughts of those in the physical vicinity that you are visiting in real time. (for example, if you were genuinely at your mom's house, and she picked up on it in the physical world, and thought of you - she might have smiled to herself at the thought of you. This thought of hers might have manifested in your experience as an image of her smiling at you.)

Ralph directed me to the Art Bell interview with Robert (Inguma has downloaded the interview into files you can listen to- go to the Robert Bruce interviews forum).  About an hour and a half into the interview Robert discusses the factors that can cause reality fluctuations, and outlines briefly what conditions would be necessary for a projector to be able to identify something with decent accuracy while projecting.

Did you ask your mom if she had any dreams of you that night; did you think she was projecting?  Do you wonder if the whole experience was 'just' a dream?

Patty

[BriMercer]

Patty,

First, I have to say I read your post regarding your OBE where you tried to look at the cards.  Very cool.  (I'm sending you a person-to-person message about this through this forum, so look out for it.)

Did I think that that Mom encounter experience was a dream?  Well, despite the OBE-like qualities of the experience, as soon Mom spoke to me, I filed in the "Lucid Dream Experience" folder, since I could think of no other explanation for why it happened.

I'm like you, eager for more tangible evidence that this sort of experience is valid (though I certainly have had some).  What I'm finding is that the more experiences I have like this (none of them consciously induced, I'm afraid), the more they seem very real *at the time*, and only later do the memories of them seem wispy and dream-like.  That is the nature of shadow memory recall, I suppose.

I have experienced this melting hands phenomenon; a good acid test, I think.  Forgot all about it!

Brian