Do you think governments have looked into preventing astral travel espionage?

[Capt. Picard]

I am being honest that I noticed this with no expectations. I used to have trouble going through windows, but then I realized it was all about my expectations. However with walls and electrical appliances, I swear I had no prior expectations, in fact its more of a theory I read probably on this forum several years ago. I then noticed that prior projections I had been getting stuck in walls and power lines and some other electrical appliances like my alarm clock and TV. Could be coincidence I just find it interesting that this theory gets brought up again. I think when I read it someone may have specifically mentioned copper wiring as the source of the problem also.

Anyways, how I understood ethereal projection, was that once the ethereal energy "runs out", the astral body simply phases into the astral. If the government had containment rooms for astral bodies, wouldn't they need some way to maintain the person's ethereal body, otherwise they would simply vanish into the nonphysical wouldn't they?

[CFTraveler]

It's my understanding that Monroe eventually came to the conclusion
that he never actually left his body, that you just go deeper into
your higher self and higher consciousness and that all resides there.

Yes, but he also had verifiable information that was obtained extra-locally.  So when you get into what consciousness is, and what reality is, things as 'the difference between a focus of consciousness and a local travel' becomes insignificant- because consciousness is everywhere, and if you can know what someone else's room looks like when you project, you are still obtain information that is located elsewhere.  So I think when people start arguing about whether you 'leave' your body or 'focus' your attention, they are completely missing the point, it's just one more way of getting into some sort of 'I'm right or you're right' contest.
The truth is that no one knows which is right- do you traverse time and space in some sort of corporeal construct, do you focus on consciousness that is not local at all, yet tap on information that is?  Is consciousness just another way of saying 'reality', and by focusing inward you somehow are in the other place?  It all depends on how you categorize the world.  There are engineers and there are philosophers.... and they will see it differently.
-But that doesn't mean one is 'wrong' and the other one is 'right'- that's just an ego pi$$ing contest.  My "Guru can beat up your Guru".

I

have also heard this from other well known travelers, such as
William Buhlman. I think there would be more unexplained comatose
people if this soul/astral body snatching thing were true. I also think it's very irresponsible to claim such things.

Claim what?  'Leaving the body' does not mean 'Leaving the body empty'.  It just means that your perceptual senses are no longer in the body and are perceiving something else.
And no, I don't believe this, but I am making the point that just because I don't believe it it somehow makes it 'wrong'.

The last thing the astral traveling community needs is to start implimenting fear
into people seeking to astral travel. I would hope that as you travel into dangerous
realms, that guides would keep you from traveling into such territory. My advice would
be to seek guides to help you and don't travel where you think you shouldn't go.
This is coming from someone who hasn't exited yet, but still, a little common sense goes
a long way!

But if you do some research you will see that there are a few unstable people that do wander off into territory that isn't exactly 'wonderful', and are deeply affected by it.  Guides protect you from damage, but don't stop you from learning lessons, and one of the most important lessons to learn is- let go of your fear.  And your fear will teach you to let it go-sometimes the hard way.  Do you know how many times I read posts from people complaining that they were not warned of what they could experience?

[Alex-Anderson]

Very well expressed response - CFTraveller!

I agree with you completely and also believe there is a common ground amongst all these experiences but we lack an agreed methodology or language to express and communicate what is experienced and how the rest of the community can then identify and understand the experience.

At the minute the communication and perception of people’s experiences is a free for all, some have gained a wealth of knowledge by reading books, having experiences or sharing with like minded people, others may have simply just stumbled onto the experience and learned through their own mistakes, and then the rest may sit somewhere in the middle.

Either way it’s all very subjective. But as long as we are discussing and analysing these experiences from the eyes and ears of our physical bodies then the more we need a methodology to ensure what is communicated or expressed can be understood in a way to ensure knowledge is shared and acquired and not lost in translation.

Funny the whole situation reminds me of when I did my arts degree and now working as a project manager for the last decade. Both environments were/are always left to interpretation and assumptions. However quality and information sharing can/is improved through education, better knowhow and adopting a common objective to what and how is being expressed. Especially in the field of project management where so much money and time and effort is wasted by people gathering around the table and not sharing a common knowledge on processes, objectives and requirements – hence there are global project management accredited qualifications to ensure quality within the business environment, and especially relationship between customer and supplier.

So in this field of experiences your right there will always be the “My Guru can beat up your Guru” but again that is just because there is no official adopted language or process on how these experiences can be expressed or understood. Imagine if this subject was to be officially taught as an accredited qualification within schooling, or field of work. This being the case something would have to be adopted to govern and measure what is or how it’s achieved. Of course it would then start entering an infringement on maybe how we view and experience our subconscious reality but as long as we try and use language to communicate these experiences the more we will just go in circles without ever understanding each other.

Reference to ‘Experiences’ is of course OBE’s/AP’s etc  

[Tiny]

I would see this differently - but understand it can be viewed as somewhat dark. However posts on here can be upbeat, downbeat, intelligent, creative, and sometimes lacking content. But the great thing about this forum is that I can progressively develop my skills and knowledge by learning from others who have broken it down into bite-sized learnable chunks, then fear diminishes greatly because I have a better understanding on perhaps what to do.

But despite this topic being very speculative, is this really a threatening issue to the projecting community – probably not. However from a technical point of view I'm now very curious if it is possible that an astral body could be contained as I never heard of such a thing. But if this were the case then surely its something that would require investigation.

Maybe what we need is something like "Trip Avdisor" for the Astral planes.

Alex-Anderson,

I think it has to be understood that the astral body is just another sheet of the coverings over the spirit that can be dropped. It has been mentioned here if im not mistaken that the astral body can simply be dissolved on purpose. The theosophical society belief that the advanced spiritual being at some point drops its' astral body and continues in the mental body.
And In fact the mental body is where the true unrestricted(atleast in comparison to the astral body) freedom lies.

I don't exactly understand how the mental body in it's refined nature (the one that goes in remote viewing afaik) could be imprisoned in any way but it could be blocked off completly and i have experienced that.

Projecting astrally to alien or military bases is a whole different story and I strongly advise anybody not to do this!
These "astral containment units" exist I am very sure about this.


Here's an interesting remote viewing report on Dulce

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread354519/pg1

If anyone would want to remote view UFOs, alien bases, military bases and the like and I know the temptation is huge, I would recommend looking for protection measures such as: remote viewing them slightly in the past or doing it with the intention of being completly invisible.


kind regards,

Paul

[sublimy99]

"My guru can beat up your guru ?" What kind of guru engages in violence to solve their problems.
I have read many different articles and books on this subject and I tend to gravitate towards
William Buhlman, he has been doing this for over 30 years and he seems very grounded in his
approach to OOBE's. I'm not really sure of his fighting skills, but I do like the way he explains
his theories of AP. Is he the definitive "go to guy" on Astral projection ? He is to me.
Do I think everything he says in 100% true? No. When I experience this for myself I'll have a
better grasp of what it's all about. Do I think there are underground alien bases? Maybe, but
who knows. I'm certainly not going to go by some guy on "Above top secret" website as my proof.

I'm going to consider astral containment and underground alien bases with a grain of salt.
I'd like to approach this with a spiritual guide, if possible. I don't think it's a good idea to
go about exploring AP, on my own, if I can help it. If and when I become comfortable
with projecting, I would like to use it to help people, such as finding missing people and

things of that nature, if that is possible.It may sound sappy, but I don't want to just float around my room looking at myself either.
I don't feel the need to explore area 51. I would like to go to the moon. One thing I don't want, the fear of some being entraping my astral body/soul. If I've learned anything, it's that state of mind is very important. So while I'll refrain from saying my guru's better than yours, I'd like to stay with the concept of being safe in the astral plane and not give into fear of astral containment!!

[CFTraveler]

"My guru can beat up your guru ?" What kind of guru engages in violence to solve their problems.

I think you missed my point, sublimy.  But don't worry, I'm glad you did.  That means you're above this kind of thinking.

[sublimy99]

CFTraveler, no I did get the point. You didn't think getting into an argument over
who has the "better" Obe teacher/guru, was nessasary, especially with a subject
that is as unsubstantiated, at least in  scientific terms. I was just pointing out
the fact that a reference to "beating up" didn't sit with the subject matter, but yeah,
I know what you are saying.

Like I've said quite a few times in here, I have an entity attached to me and it might
be holding me back. What I'm saying is, the thought of what I might face, might be holding
me back. So adding the idea of "astral containment" isn't going to help me get out.
The house where this attachment started is in another town, but something followed me.
The things that happened in that house was very evil, whatever followed me here has not
acted all that evil, except messing with my dreams. One time (while here) I woke up, at least
I thought I did and when I laid my head down I started falling and landed in a room surrounded
by shadowmen. (I saw the shadowman up close and conscious in that house)
 I don't know if I was lucid, or out of body or what, but I remained calm.
Still, I have a little apprehension exiting, so the thought of astral containment will only add to that.

[CFTraveler]

Well, I'd recommend you read anything written by Kurt Leland about nonphysical reality- he explains in very utilitarian terms the possible significance of the types of experiences you describe, and it kind of takes the 'spookiness' out of the experience.  I'd give you a link to his book, but ATM it is very hard to find.
ps.  When I talk about 'containment', or what I described as 'protections' were not physical in nature- more like a psychological defense type of method.  Like how you make an unconscious barrier around your personal space only with the concept that it's 'your' space, and more than likely any being you encounter in that space is some sort of self-aspect- only in the case of something like this, it's something deliberately 'projected' unto the space- for the purposes of shielding.
That's what I was speculating about, based on my experiences, and nothing more.

[Capt. Picard]

The shadowmen... I have seen them twice up close, one time I fought it. Both times as soon as I got close/attacked the projection ended. I am more on the side of them being a part of my subcouncious. Does anyone have any differing opinions on the shadowmen?

[Fresco]

Do you think governments have looked into preventing astral travel espionage?

I dont know but they did pour millions of $$$$ into Remote Viewing projects, some I'm pretty sure they know about AP also.
And if they know about it surely they must be taking preventative steps to counter foreign and domestic espionage

[Alex-Anderson]

What I find fascinating is that if this is true (governments aware of AP,RV as a possible tool for espionage) then they would have had to look at that the probability and threat based on an average end users ability to have projections, average end users  progression and development ,those that are professionally trained, and what laws and physics govern how it can be used as a tool for intelligence gathering.

But as the field is so diverse and challenging counter measures must be made on so many assumptions that it’s hard to assume that something does exist around a set of processes that can be damaging unless we agree that there are laws and physics governing what one can do and the limits to how a projection can be utilised - Unless counter measures have been influenced by outside forces or helpers.

Either way a forum site like Astral Pulse would be an excellent source for any intelligence analyst to gauge the aptitude of the average end user.

For me this whole field/subject is like an open mic night with no amplification but perhaps too much noise.  So I think I still need more convincing that something could exist that could separate the signal from the noise.

[sublimy99]

Ok, so lets for one second say there is no astral containment or
precautions by the Government. You go into one of these places,
Area 51, the White House, or an underground alien base. What now?
What if you went to Area 51 and saw alien bodies. First you'd have to discern
if what you saw was real. Now, try coming on this board, or anywhere,
for that matter, and tell people. Your only proof is your word.
Maybe, just maybe some people on this board would believe you.

People talk about "alien bases" all the time, no one gets killed. I even
saw a show about it on the History channel. Did I believe every word?
No. I took it with a grain of salt and moved on. Same with alien bases on
the moon, you go there through AP , come back and tell people and most
will not believe you. Even abductees come back with full recall lately.
The aliens know only other abductees and some "kooks" like us..will believe them.

[CFTraveler]

Ok, so lets for one second say there is no astral containment or
precautions by the Government. You go into one of these places,
Area 51, the White House, or an underground alien base. What now?
What if you went to Area 51 and saw alien bodies. First you'd have to discern
if what you saw was real. Now, try coming on this board, or anywhere,
for that matter, and tell people. Your only proof is your word.
Maybe, just maybe some people on this board would believe you.

People talk about "alien bases" all the time, no one gets killed. I even
saw a show about it on the History channel. Did I believe every word?
No. I took it with a grain of salt and moved on. Same with alien bases on
the moon, you go there through AP , come back and tell people and most
will not believe you. Even abductees come back with full recall lately.
The aliens know only other abductees and some "kooks" like us..will believe them.

I agree for the most part.
Plus, when I have visited such places, I don't remember half of what I saw, or what I learned.  So there is no way to ascertain the objective reality of anything that is seen in such visits.

[Psilibus]

I'm my own guru. I kick my own A$$ everyday. 

Were talking about soul stealing here? Or what??? 

Gut instinct will tell you where to go and not go. I generally know what I should and should not be doing/going both in AP and here in the plain old physical. 

Stupid question here but, why all the interest in aliens? Only had one experience I can recall about aliens and they were a bunch of bullies. I wasn't impressed at all. These sound like lower vibrational experiences to me. Kind of a waste of time isn't it? It all gets better the higher you go, love, light and eternal wisdom free for the learning and sharing. 

I want to see aliens in the physical, you know, shake their hand (er flipper or ?). Wish someone would provide something truly tangible, incontrovertible and objective. Imagine the world wide gasp. 

[Alex-Anderson]

I’m typing this on my iPhone as a quick response so excuse any grammar but in response to your comment Psilibus...

It’s not just the alien agenda, but anything caught within the paranormal field, has and always will stimulate much interest and of course speculation. For the most part the recent raised interest (last few decades) is probably down to disillusionment with our modern day society leading us to question and explore (including Hollywood who cashes in on this).

On the other hand all the paranormal awareness that is pushed via outlets such as films, TV, books, and the internet raises the public’s awareness on the subject providing a good source for self discovery – i.e.: I would see this as a positive trend to something that could be viewed as dissatisfaction with our mainstream beliefs and practices.