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Author Topic: Projection Journal ** Looking for help analyzing/understanding them! **  (Read 4101 times)
EscapeVelocity
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« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2020, 06:02:11 »

I have read several similar experiences from others and had a few of my own. The actual actions plus all the metaphorical material makes them a jumble of confusion and possible small insights; but it’s hard to be sure. Now, after having read some more of these and coupled with my own, this possibility occurs to me-

These experiences seem to occur during a specific period of our NP development, sometimes early but not always necessarily, where transitions are happening in our learning and the learning itself is becoming more apparent. In GR’s case, the previous experience introduced a possible ‘schedule of classes’ or a ‘guidebook’, which likely refers to the NPR.

In this current experience, the forms of NP communication seem to be highlighted. Of course, where is the fun in just coming out and saying it? Instead you are required to notice the name pin, but it has numerals. This forces your NP awareness to discard the old methods and find a new way to get the information. The Instructor in this experience is talking but you can barely make out the words and none of it is clear. Again, you are required to drop the old and find the new. Your mind is working fairly rapidly at this point; learning is happening. You asked for a repeat and noticed the annoyance and the snooty attitude which may have served in a few ways: A distraction test; the annoyance as a sign you were to look elsewhere or think differently about the form of communication; finally, the form of NP communication is ‘feel/think’ which adds the emotional component to the message and so there was a demonstration of it.

And then the Instructor increases her walking pace and you are having trouble keeping up, an apt metaphor for the whole exercise.

I see this as a frustrating but wonderful example of the multiple paces they can put us through in just a few minutes of a single experience and the ongoing processes of training and expanding our NP awareness and abilities. Look forward to more of these and have fun!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 06:04:18 by EscapeVelocity » Logged

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Nameless
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2020, 06:26:12 »

I think EV is spot on as usual.

I'll add a little about the house reference. Your body, your mind and your spirit ARE your house. I went through quite a set of exercises where I had to learn how all that can be correlated to a house and what it meant for me. You might know some of these if you stop and think a moment.

Like dreams or NP episodes where you find yourself trapped in the basement or lost in the attic. They each have significance to the house cleaning you might need to do to move onward. My personal worst experience was finding myself outside my house (a 5 or 6 story monstrosity bearing no resemblance to my actual house). I had to 'see' it from the outside and imagine the inside while trying desperately to get back inside. Scary and exhilarating at the same time.
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« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2020, 06:26:12 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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GrumpyRabbit
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« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2020, 09:33:15 »

Very nice insights, EV! I hadn't even thought of "schedule of classes" and the "guidebook" as just being symbols for the entirety of non-physical reality itself! I thought I was actually going to be sitting at a monk's feet learning the meaning of life or something LOL

Thanks, Nameless, I've been pondering that statement she made ever since. Wednesday did happen to be a pretty good day for me, project-wise, so I wondered if it meant coming more into my own, or more on a meaningful path. I also liked the idea of being my own shelter.


7 August 2020

Lucid dream?

Had a series of either lucid dreams, or a combination of lucid dreams and projection. Did I project from a dream? I don’t know. Most of them, I can’t remember. But at one point, I was flying through the air holding onto the arm of a man - it was more like the man was flying, and I was holding onto his upper arm, and he was taking me somewhere. This one manifested as Chris Evans (of Captain America fame) so that was a nice touch LOL  wink. I kept having to tell myself over and over, This isn’t really Chris Evans! This isn’t really Chris Evans! It just looks like him! It seemed like we were being followed, like we were being chased by something, and we were trying to get away from it. He said we’d take a shortcut through a tunnel to go like warp speed or whatever, to get to a “recovery zone” that would be a safe place. We started going very fast, then it seemed like we slowed down and almost froze in place, but while still trying to fly forward and away from whatever was chasing us. Then, around the corner, the things that were chasing us turned and sped into the tunnel after us. I don’t know what they were, some kind of unappealing creatures. While the dashing Chris Evans was facing forwards, still trying to fly us away, I was holding onto him but facing back, so I could see them approaching. I made defensive things come out of my hands to blow up the bad creatures that were shooting at us. Like, I don’t know, counter weapons or laser beams or something, came out of my hands, to start blowing them up. They were firing at us, and I blew most of them up, but I think one of them successfully shot me at some point. It felt like I felt something painful in my feet, or one of my feet. Then, I’m not sure what happened, but it seemed like everything was quiet and we were very still, hiding, clutching each other. Like when you can hear your heart beating and are afraid to breathe too loud. Right above us, a trap door opened, as if we were hiding underneath someone’s floor. It was a man, he said something but I don’t remember. But he was “on our side.” Then he said to me, I think in reference to me seeing the bad creatures approaching and firing back at them, “You must have been a Perceptionist in your last machine. So maybe we could use you back now.” And I just said, “OK.” I immediately interpreted “machine” to be referring to my physical body. For example, me in another body in another life. Then I saw him run his finger down the side of his cheek, it was a gesture, and he said, “You’re very beautiful.” I mimicked the gesture and asked what it means. He responded, “Etiquette.” I mean, OK.

Of course this makes me wonder....what's a Perceptionist? Is that a term that sounds familiar to anyone? Has anyone heard this term before, or been told it by some spirit entity, while out of body? I don't know if this was a just a dreamy jumble that doesn't really mean anything, or whether I had legit projected and it's significant in some way. If it is significant, then it sounds like I just enlisted for something LOL
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« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2020, 07:05:16 »

This is very interesting Grumpy. I know many of us here have at one time or another realized our role(s) whether straight up told it like in your experience or learned in some other way. A few of us are Observers, some Rescuers but I admit this is the first time I have heard of a Perceptionist.

Even more interesting results when I did a quick search on the word.

Mirriam-Webster Dictionary - : an advocate or adherent of perceptionism.
With this added - :..there are over 200,000 words in our free online dictionary, but you are looking for one that’s only in the Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary."

Urban Dictionary says this, "A person who demands that people live their life more concerned about what others will perceive of them rather than who they actually are."

Most telling:  Definition of perceptionism
: the theory that all knowledge is relative to sense perception

I could maybe do a little light opinion on this but I would much rather you do that. Your own observations will be much more useful to you. But seems your on your way to unlocking the door to your own reality.

Fascinating


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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2020, 07:55:32 »

Oh cool, Nameless - What do Observers and Rescuers do?? I mean, I know, I can get the gist of it from the name, but....What do Observers "observe"? And why? What does it achieve? Do Rescuers do the psychopomp work? (what ya'll call "retrievals")

I'd love to know your opinion of what being a Perceptionist could mean!

You know how when in NP we can still get a sense of what something means even without it being spelled out? Sort of like claircognizance. Well, when he said that, about I must have been a Perceptionist in my last machine, I took this statement to have been inspired by the fact that I saw (perceived?) the "bad guys" that were coming after us. As if maybe not everyone would have been able to see them. At least, that was my rudimentary sense at the time.

But what being a Perceptionist really means, what this has to do with my role or "mission".....I don't know.

Anyway. I was all excited thinking things were really "going somewhere" - and then this is the next thing that happens. Feels like a clunker LOL Does not seem to have ANYTHING to do with me being a Perceptionist or figuring out further what that means, what I'm supposed to do.

10 August 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection

Felt myself shifting into that state, so began to reach, stretch my way out of my body. It seemed like the bed started to shake, and at some point, it seemed like I was helped out, like someone reached and pulled one of my legs out. I said again, Take me wherever I need to go, teach me whatever I need to know. Felt myself begin to move. Peeked my eyes open, and I was zipping feet first through a tunnel. It seemed like the tunnel was tiled, and the tiles were dark/black, but they flashed with light and colors. It was fun! Then it seemed like my momentum slowed down and I stopped moving through the tunnel. At this point, I’m not really sure what happened next. There are some gaps in my memory. My “guide” for this experience was a young man, blonde. He transported me around on piggy back. I have a few memories of “scenes,” but because of the gaps in my memory, I’m not sure how they’re linked together. One memory is of he and I standing in a room, like an office, leaning against the desk. He was talking about the limbic system or something, with reference to trauma. I added to the conversation something about the polyvagal theory and the brain (I didn’t use those words, but I described the ideas). I think while we were talking, I realized it was really bloody hot. I felt so hot, and I saw/felt that I was sweating. This was a bit weird and annoying - like, how is it possible to feel such humidity and to sweat while out of body? I showed him how my arm was sweaty and told him how hot it was, and was like, what’s up with this? Is something wrong? We looked around the corner, and saw that the room we were in was right next to an open door, that led to some kind of steamy, shower/pool room. He began carrying me away, but it seemed like he was carrying me almost through that to another room with a pool. I thought to myself that maybe we were going to go into the pool to cool off, but while he walked by it, he kept going. Another memory is of him giving me a piggy back ride up and down stairs in a stairwell. At first, I thought we were going to a specific place, but when he got to the bottom of the stairs he started carrying me back up again. I made a joke that he was trying to get his workout in. Another memory is him carrying me piggy back again, and we were stepping into an elevator. There was some small little creature following us in, very short, close to the ground. It looked like a simplified cartoon representation of a bird or a duck. It was a very bright, unnatural color, like neon orange. At first, I was afraid of it, because I didn’t know what it was, if it was good or not. I pulled my feet and legs up as much as possible while on his back, so that it couldn’t touch me/get my feet. Then, the next thing I remember is that I’m standing beside him in the elevator, and he’s holding it in his hands for me to look at. It’s not the weird simplified cartoon anymore, it’s an actual bird with features. It was nice and calm, and I stroked it’s feathers while he held it. While out of body, I knew that my physical mouth was very dry, and I thought about asking him for water, since it was so uncomfortable, but I knew that drinking water while out of body wouldn’t fix the problem, because it was my physical body that needed it. The last set of memories I have is that he piggy backed me outside. It was early evening, the sky was dark but there was still some light. There were lots of trees that made me think it looked like we were somewhere in the south, like Louisiana or Florida. It seemed like I heard old timey folk music playing in the background somewhere, in the distance. We got to the parking lot outside the building we’d been inside this whole time. He said, Thank you, and he gave me a kiss. Then I was basically unceremoniously dumped onto the asphalt. As he was walking away, I hollered out to him - What was the point of today?! Like, what was I supposed to get from this? To learn, or to do?

And he responded: “To be acquisitive.”

So I’m like...huh!? I was supposed to just take stuff? Stuff that doesn’t belong to me? I thought this was weird and odd. And WHAT does any of this have to do with the last experience I had, where I was told that I’m a “Perceptionist” - that seemed like an important and significant milestone. And then I get….this?

I was like, I didn’t know I’m supposed to take stuff! I would have thought it would be “bad” to start greedily taking things that aren’t mine. But, well, while he had walked away I was still there. I wasn’t back in my body yet, so I figured, to hell with it. I still have a chance, so I’ll bloody well find some stuff to take!

The parking lot was filled with cars, they seemed like open-air jeeps, you know the sort. So I started looking in them, and weirdly they were filled with office supplies - scissors, notepads, gluesticks. Ultimately I grabbed a notepad and a gluestick. I went around the corner of the parking lot, behind the building, and there was a mother and her daughter. The daughter was riding a pony. And I damn well wanted that pony, or at least to ride it, but I thought to myself, how do I know these people are really part of the “training”, maybe they’re just innocent passersthrough, and I steal some little entity’s pony? I didn’t want to do that. So I asked if there were a horse rental place around. I told them I was out of body, and I didn’t really know what was around the area. They said no, there wasn’t. It seemed like it was their pony.

I don’t remember anything else at that point. I think I started phasing back in.

So am I a robberbaron or something?  tongue grin
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 07:59:54 by GrumpyRabbit » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2020, 07:55:32 »



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Nameless
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« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2020, 10:49:16 »

LOL, well only speaking for myself I am first and foremost an Observer. As an observer I do more than just watch. I must pay attention to all details, like not just what I see but how I felt. Everything matters. Although I struggle to explain this I will give it a shot. It's important to observe all sides of any given situation and then share those observations where they seem most appropriate.

We have some very good Rescuers here and yes retrievals are the same thing. The name speaks for itself. I've done some retrievals but mostly that is secondary to observing for me. Both 'jobs' are similar in some regards. I highly admire the work Szaxx, Lumaza, EV and others have done on retrievals.

Since you are the first Perceptionist I have come across and indeed the first I've heard of such I can only guess really. And I hesitate to do that but will offer an observation.

I was struck by this definition "A person who demands that people live their life more concerned about what others will perceive of them rather than who they actually are."

Could this mean you have the ability to be what others see or wish to see? That's a hint.
------

Now to your OB. Acquisitive. Hmm, sounds like a mash up. Did he mean Inquisitive (questioning) or perhaps Acquisition (acquiring)?

So I will ask you. What would a perceptionist need to know and what tools might they need? Think on this but not too heavily. Just a little light thinking and let the answers come to you.

Interesting that the cars were filled with office supplies.
My instincts tell me you were spot on in not taking the pony.

Or something!!! haha
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« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2020, 04:50:04 »

Nameless, interesting! So, what is the deeper purpose for having Observers? Who or what do you observe FOR? Is your job to report your observations to...someone? And, how did you learn that's your role? Did someone tell you that directly, like I was told?

Other than Observers and Rescuers, what are all the other jobs you guys are aware of that projectors do?

Yeah, I don't know what to make of the Perceptionist thing. I'm probably the last person in the world who lives their live more concerned with others' perceptions of me than who I really am.

And yes, I really do think he said "acquisitive" rather than "inquisitive" - as far as what I would need to know or what tools I might need? Well, I guess that depends on what it really means to be a Perceptionist, what I'm supposed to do. And I don't really know that yet, but if the quote you reference is important, it would mean that I would need to have the ability to shapeshift, and to know what I need to shapeshift into in different situations, and how to actually do it. For what purpose? Who knows. And who knows if that's even right! I keep coming back to the circumstances surrounding when I was told this - seeing and killing the 'bad guys' - and some how that prompted the guy to speculate that I must have been a Perceptionist in my last/another life. Hmm.

Anyway, two more experiences that once again don't seem to have anything to do with anything:


16 August 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection - lucid dream??

I said, as I have been of late, Take me where I need to go, tell me what I need to know. I had trouble seeing at first. Took some effort to get my “eyes” open. In front of me I saw photographers, they were taking my photo - bright flash photography. I looked down and I was wearing a fancy dress. There was a woman, we were inside some place with a nice/fancy/classy bar. I walked up to the bar with her and I think she recommended a drink for me. I asked her what the point of this experience was, that is, what is this teaching me, what am I here to learn? I figured since the last time I asked directly at the end, and found out too late I was supposed to “be acquisitive” (whatever the hell that’s about), I thought it might help to ask at the *beginning* of the journey, so maybe I can do better!

Well, my question didn’t go over so good. She seemed to convey, How are you going to learn anything if we keep telling you the answers?

And I was like, Whenever I try to figure it out for myself I’m *wrong* so I thought I’d ask!

So anyway, I said that regarding a drink, to give me whatever my body really needed. There were cans inside a fridge, you know one with a clear door, so you can see your options inside? I was handed a can of a fizzy, fruity drink. I took some sips, and while I could taste it on my lips/tongue/in my mouth, I couldn’t seem to really swallow it. Then I was back.

Then, later during the same morning:

Possible lucid dream? Possible projection *from* a dream? I’m still a bit confused as to what it means if you have a dream of yourself, and  you dream of yourself projecting, and it seems like you actually project - but you were definitely dreaming it. Did you just dream it happened? Or were you in the “dream world/level of reality,” and then you projected to some other reality? Ehh…

Whatever it was: I was in my old bedroom in the house I grew up in. There was a cat perched on something on the wall next to my bed (where I was sitting). The cat said something like, The ones in the front room are the healers.

No friggin’ clue what this was in reference to. Then, there was a stick. I was handed a stick, or there was just a stick there and I took it. Apparently this stick was for “projection”. The stick, like a divining rod, started to move and point the way to go. It led the way downstairs, and out the front door, to outside the house. There were people down at a house at the end of the block. I could see them and started flying towards them, again with the stick seemingly leading the way. But then, it seemed like I got “stuck” mid-air and I couldn’t fly forward anymore. Like there was a counter force pulling me backwards. The people down the street pointed in the direction behind me. They were yelling something, but I couldn’t hear them and make out the words. Well, I looked back over my right shoulder, and there was a huge tornado coming this way! I yelled for help. Then there were some people outside the front door of my house (I was more in the street) and some guy threw what appeared to be like a fishing line toward me, for me to grab onto. I grabbed onto it and was basically reeled in towards them, to save me from the tornado. The people there brought me a trash can, like expecting me to throw up or something. She referred to the tornado-type thing as a “conjunction current”. Like, I almost got trapped in or swept up in a conjunction current.

That’s all I remember, no idea what any of this has to do with either being acquisitive OR being a Perceptionist!
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« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2020, 07:25:49 »

Quote
Possible lucid dream? Possible projection *from* a dream? I’m still a bit confused as to what it means if you have a dream of yourself, and  you dream of yourself projecting, and it seems like you actually project - but you were definitely dreaming it. Did you just dream it happened? Or were you in the “dream world/level of reality,” and then you projected to some other reality? Ehh…

That is maybe the best I have ever heard this worded.

Both these states of consciousness can occur. Which one were you in indeed!

I love your reporting style, GR.. Just sayin'.


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« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2020, 04:01:46 »

That is maybe the best I have ever heard this worded.

Both these states of consciousness can occur. Which one were you in indeed!

I love your reporting style, GR.. Just sayin'.


Haha, thanks!!
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« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2020, 23:44:59 »

A threefer!

This first one I thought was a total dud, but as it turns out, I think it's my very first REAL VALIDATION that I'm really out of body and encountering real things, instead of "Just dreaming" or "imagining."


23 August 2020

Out of body experience - lucid dream - astral projection?

I started off having a dream about a good friend of mine. I was trying to figure out if I was dreaming or not, so I looked down at my hands, and saw that they didn’t have nail polish - in real life, they do. Right away I then knew it was a dream. As I continued looking at my hands a beat longer, they started to melt, confirming that even further. Since I was then lucid, I decided to try to project to visit this particular actual friend in real life. I closed my eyes and asked to be taken to see him. Felt myself moving. Opened my eyes again, and was in a white bedroom, with him laying on the bed sleeping. He had a bandage around his head and another one around his chest - these seemed to indicate an injury. I whispered to him to wake up, and when he did, he saw me and was very startled. I told him I was out of body, and I told him I’d just had a dream about him, and so decided to actually visit. At one point he told me, “Laura took me back.” Weird, so far as I know he’s never been involved with anyone named Laura.

I was bummed. I figured maybe I wasn't really projecting at all, maybe I just dreamed the whole thing (woe is me maybe none of it is real!) that sort of thing. There is no Laura! I figured it was all gibberish. But, I decided to give him a call that afternoon to catch up, which we hadn't done in a while. I didn't want to reveal anything about what I'd experience, I just wanted to find out what's the latest with him to see what he'd say.

WELL. As it turns out, he’s back together with LYNDA, a not particularly wonderful ex of his. He said it was an opportunity to “heal old wounds,” so that explains why he appeared in bandages. Both names begin with an L, end with an A, are two syllables, and have the number of letters. Laura, Lynda, close enough for government work.

I think this is real validation that I actually visited/encountered him or his asleep energy body/consciousness on some level!!!!

And the hilarious part is that I was so shocked/horrified by what he was telling me my mind went blank and I COMPLETELY FORGOT to even tell him I traveled to him out of body that morning! LOL


25 Aug 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection - remote viewing?

Fell into a trance state this morning trying to fall back asleep. Hypnagogic imagery coalesced into a 2D flat screen, like a movie screen or flat screen TV. This must be remote viewing! All sorts of things that I can’t even remember appeared on the screen, seemingly at random or with no meaning. I wasn’t “there” or in it, I was seeing it clearly under my closed eyes - a literal screen appeared, rather than actively visualizing. I asked to be shown who my soul mate/ life partner is. I wanted to see what he looks like. Well, they didn’t show me that. I can’t remember what they showed me, but I do remember them responding verbally, “Go to festivals.” Well, ok. Does that mean I’ll meet my Person at a festival? I was like...which festival? Where? When? I don’t remember what the response was to that, or if I got a response. Definitely said to go to festivals, tho.

2nd experience this morning:

Later this morning, after I wrote down notes for the above and tried to drift off again, I seemed to be in the appropriate state so I asked my usual, Take me wherever I need to go, for whatever I need to know. Felt myself moving and rotating in the air, eventually to feel like I’m levitating horizontally and being carried, as usual. Peeked my eyes open and to my right, the one carrying me, was a black woman. She said she was taking me to my consultations. It seemed like I had two appointments to get to, one down the hall from the other. As if I were going to a job interview or receiving an assignment or something. She said more details but I couldn’t remember. I was so tired. I even tried repeating back to her what she said so I wouldn’t forget - I even said, “I will remember this!”

Dear Reader, I did not remember it.

Anyway, I asked her, while I was still being carried, to make sure that I got to both appointments OK. I had gotten the sense she was going to deposit me somewhere, and it would be my responsibility to get myself to each of the “consultations” - or whatever they are. She seemed a little annoyed, like doing that would inconvenience her. So, I explained to her that I was currently having a difficult time keeping my focus “out there” - you know, keeping my focus in the astral, or wherever the hell I was. I was mentally tired, and physically felt weak. It was like my astral limbs were all weak and floppy. This all seemed to get her attention, like, OK, that’s a legit issue. She then put me down/stood me up, with my feet on the ground. I tried focusing on trying to actually *be* grounded, literally, focusing on the feeling of the grass underneath my feet (we were outside somewhere), to ground myself THERE. There was a man and a woman sitting like on a park bench nearby, we were all outside some sort of building or building complex. Their backs were to us. The woman who’d been carrying/leading me approached them, with me fumbling by her side, and told them about my predicament. She called the man Jim, and the woman seemed to be called Charlotte. My guide seemed to say like, OK, she needs more help, she needs something more, to be fully THERE. This wasn’t exactly it, but imagine if there’s a top doctor, and there’s a patient with an illness, and a lower-tier doctor who is working with that patient goes to the head doctor and says, That strong medicine we have? We need to use that now. You can’t withhold that anymore. It was sort of like that kinda vibe. I can’t remember exactly what the conversation was (of course I don’t…), but after she seemed to try to prod “Jim” to authorize me getting more help or whatever it was that I needed, I (ever the comedian), piped in and said,

YEAH, JIM. Then Jim vanished, and I looked to my helper and “Charlotte” and, still the comedian, added casually, So, who’s Jim? I then told Charlotte she was beautiful. I don’t think I was being very helpful.

Anyway, my helper and I started walking off across the grass. I looked down and saw there were TONS of little tiny turtles! Either like miniature turtles or baby turtles. They were so cute! I also noticed that, as often happens, I was having a hard time seeing, and AS USUAL, it was my left eye I couldn’t see out of. I don’t know why, but for some reason if there’s a problem, it’s always with my left eye. First I tried saying, “My left eye is open!” a few times but that did absolutely nothing, so I resorted back to the tried and true “Clarity now!” which started working and each time I said it my vision got a wee bit better and when things were finally pretty clear I lost focus and was obnoxiously back in my body.

Never did get to my consultation appointments! Arg.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 23:49:52 by GrumpyRabbit » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2020, 04:43:47 »

31 August 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection - lucid dream

WOAH, a LOT happened this morning. Multiple experiences.


First: I think I projected from what had the makings of a bad dream. I decided it must be a dream, so figured I’d get the hell out of dodge. Closed my eyes and said my usual, to take me wherever I need to go, teach me whatever I need to know.

Mode of transport seemed to be something akin to a horse. I tried petting its fur, but it seemed to not like that, and like I wanted to kick me (even those I was being transported on its back); I saw its ears pinned back. I mentally apologized to it, and it calmed down.

We were in like a campus bookstore. Someone asked me how long my hair would stay purple. I told a joke at one point and everyone laughed. They were inspecting my clothes; apparently I was wearing a flannel shirt. At one point, I looked down at my hands, and saw that this time they manifested as actually having nail polish (wrong color, tho).

At another point, I think we (myself and my main guide for this experience) talked about how so many of my AP memories aren’t getting coded properly - maybe I brought up how much of a problem it is that there’s so much I forget. I saw a pad of paper on the counter, and some writing implements. I took a pencil, and decided to try to write stuff down to try to help my memory. There were two young women standing at the counter to my left. I said that it was my first time there, and I even asked if it was possible to email myself. LOL obviously they said no. It seemed like a fully functioning campus bookstore/resource center, and there was definitely a fax machine. The woman didn’t seem to want me writing things down - like that’s a privilege I don’t have yet.

On the wall of the bookstore hung a framed photo of an Asian woman, it was labeled with the name of the woman who taught me formless qigong. As if she were employee of the month or whatever.

At one point, I started spinning around, moving up and down the room a bit, while a brunette woman, who seemed to be my main guide, was talking to some people. Sort of like I was on a very gentle “teacups” ride. She said that this was an opportunity for me to get some studying in. Like, somehow that motion was perhaps me “downloading” information?? I have no idea, whatever it was, it wasn’t conscious.

While she and I were later making our way outside into the hallway, I her I was very sorry, I forgot her name. She seemed to think that maybe I might remember on some level. I said, “You kind of look like Julianne Moore, though!” (she had brown hair, however). She was very upset by this, for some reason, and said: “You know, that’s the kind of thing I don’t want to get. That’s bad.”

We were walking up the stairs in a crowded stairwell, and after she said this, I was thinking oh crap what did I do! How do I fix this! And a child who was also on the stairs screamed. Back in body.



Second: Wrote down my notes, went back to sleep. Somehow, I projected again. I really don’t remember how it happened. One minute I’m in a mundane sort of dream, then suddenly I’m fully conscious, and I found myself back with the same woman who seemed to be my main guide in the above (the one who was offended when I said she looked like Julianne Moore). My experience here began with me walking to a classroom. She said, “Welcome back!” The classroom was like any other - student desks, teacher’s desk, and a blackboard. The room was empty other than her and a man, who looked like he was a teacher. I responded something along the lines of, “I’m so glad to be back!” I think this may be the first time I projected directly back to basically (presumably) where I already was, with the same person/entity that I had just been with. I wasn’t sure if I should address whatever the faux pas was that I’d just committed, but decided not to.

There was a ton of food laid out on a few tables scattered around the room. I was so excited! This was a learning environment! I wanted to learn stuff! There was writing already on the blackboard, as if from a prior class. It seemed to have to do with learning very practical things about navigating outside of one’s physical body.

At one point, I said something like, “I have so many questions, so much I want to ask, but I think I’m just going to be quiet/shut up.” And, she only responded by saying to NEVER say “but,” rather to use the word “except” instead. This seemed very important, but I have no idea why.

She gave me a small plate of food, it was like small lemon olives. Like, imagine small, pale olives, made with lemon and something a little spicy to give them a slight kick. I think this was the very first time I ate anything out of body. They were delicious!



Third: I don’t remember much of this one, how I got there or what else was involved, but what I do remember is entering a campus computer room. It was empty, except for one guy sitting at one computer. I approached him and asked if I knew him, had I met him before? He said yes. I asked him if he could perhaps help me - I’m having memory troubles. Sometimes when out of body, the “brain fog” is so bad that it feels like I’m drunk!

Well, he seemed offended that I’d asked him to help me. As if asking him to help me meant that he was “The Help” or a servant or something. I told him, no, he just seemed to really know what was going on, like he was an expert or an old pro at all this stuff. I think that resolved whatever the offense was. I feel like he said something to me at the end that was helpful or informative, but I don’t remember, unfortunately!



Fourth: It seemed like this time I projected straight from my bed. Like I stretched out my body to worm myself away/apart from the physical. While traveling to my destination, It seemed like I had moments of split awareness. Like I became aware of myself laying in bed, partially, and then quickly refocused on the other level of reality. It really is just divided by a faint gossamer thread.

I found myself on a CTA car (Chicago public transit). There was a guy sitting next to me, and his knee was very much in my space. I asked him to move his knee, and he did. It’s a bit hilarious to me that even out of body, someone was manspreading and I had to get him to stop!

Anyway, the train stopped, the doors opened, and a bunch of people were getting off. I didn’t make a move to get up, yet, because I wasn’t sure what I should do. A man standing by the door introduced himself as “Stu,” and we shook hands. He went to get off the train, and I was like, Oh, am I supposed to get off here, too? He said yes. We got off the train together.

There was another woman, not the same as the first one, this one was heavyset. I think she said she was a band teacher. They were working on a performance, and I asked what performance it would be. She told me, but I didn’t recognize the name. When I said I didn’t recognize the title of the piece, she said, “Well, how long have you been here?” When I told her just like a day or two, she said, “Oh, wow.” (I knew this was all happening on the same morning Earth Time, but I wasn't sure if having multiple AP experiences counted for different "days," so to speak).

Me, her, and a new, third woman began walking down the stairs. Wooden stairs, outdoors (perhaps down from the train platform to the outdoor campus grounds?). Somehow, the new/third woman shrank, and by shrinking was able to squeeze between a gap in the structure of the stairs, and go back up to a higher position on the stairs. I turned to the heavyset woman behind me and asked, “Am I supposed to follow her?” The answer was yes. I had never done that before - changing my size. I had to shrink myself to fit through the same gap. She said to imagine myself standing relative to something really, really big, so I would be small in comparison. I somehow managed to do this - to shrink myself intentionally to weasel myself through the gap.

But afterwards, I/my energy body felt really sick. I had trouble breathing, hearing, speaking. I laid down on the grass. The heavyset woman and the original woman (the one from the prior experiences, who was suddenly on the scene), called out for a doctor. The doctor came, and he sprayed some kind of liquid up my nose. That got me to wake up.



Last: This one is the murkiest, I again don’t remember how I got here, and exactly where the line is drawn between dream and projection. So I’ll just make a list of things I remember:

Memory: I was having a dream that I drew/doodled in a notebook while in a trance state. There were a lot of complex symbols, markings, and one very detailed and colorful dragon. The “me” in the dream (projection?) had no recollection of having made the drawing, apparently because it was a very deep trance state.

Memory: The male teacher from the classroom in the earlier experience said, “I’ll get the egg.” Sure, why not?

Memory: I asked, “How am I doing?” An Asian woman, I *think* the one who was in the framed photo in the first experience, said, “You’ve had four lessons in one day!” (and indeed, there were, in fact, four experiences prior to this one!)

Memory: A guy named Ben, some kind of masseuse. I was laying on a massage table, and he was working on me. He said he experienced “10 years of drunk sobriety” in Amsterdam. He died on a train, and his ashes were in an urn. I asked him how long he’d been here, that is, in this astral reality, and he said for 11 years. I told him about how I want to help people not fear their own mortality as much, like for those who are terminally ill (I imagine if those who are very sick and dying, if they were able to experience AP, it would help them be less afraid of death). He held me and said he would keep me safe.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 04:54:40 by GrumpyRabbit » Logged
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« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2020, 06:37:18 »

Congratulations on a great experience!

There is a fair amount to discuss in here, (except) lol, I would ask you to spend half an hour contemplating some of the more unclear details and report any more if you can. Go into a light trance state and see if more comes through.

1- The “brain fog” or reduced awareness is often present in the Simulations. I guess it can be lack of awareness or failure to reach a more lucid frequency. It can also not be our fault, rather a condition forced upon us by the environment to better examine our “instinctive” reactions by the Trainers.

2- Anything further on the initial dream? Why was it bad? I’ve missed the point of several healing dreams because I got confused and determined they were bad, thus rejecting them. Or it could be a condition that “jumps” our awareness as we move into the Simulation.

3- There were numerous distractions that could have led you off course; reflection may show these were subtleties that helped you continue to realize you were in the NP. Nicely done!

4- Your thoughts during each event show good, clear, cognitive thinking; a further insight is to compare and contrast this to your PR thinking. This is development of the Second or NP Personality distinctive from the PR one. Notice you didn’t have to deal with any fear or sexual or otherwise distracting emotional interference.

5- You tasted food for the first time! Nice, did you happen to notice the vividness of sights, sounds or colors?

6- At least in my own experiences, I found that public transport was a metaphor for moving Dreamers into and around the Dreamzone. Moving up or down stairs is awareness level-shifting, moving up and down within consciousness (aren’t crowds so fun and distracting?).

Finally, back on July 16, I rewrote my prediction to 6 days to 6 weeks...I think I got close enough to the 6 week mark, Lol.

Nice work GR!

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« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2020, 06:55:29 »

Wow GR, that is a crazy lot for you to unpack. Take your time and congratulations for doing well on a number of challenges. Looks like you took some accelerated courses, good for you!

Definitely give EscapeVelocity's thoughts some attention. He's pointed out quite a bit. I've no doubt you will have a few more revelations in the coming days. You've done an excellent job of analyzing your experience.

Great Job!!
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« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2020, 06:16:09 »

You had to ask about the bad dream, EV LOL You guys are going to love this. Believe it or not, I had a bad dream about Nameless' Sky Roombas! No joke. I dreamt I was standing in my old bedroom in the house I grew up in, looking out my bedroom window (a number of experiences have taken place at my old house). It was evening. I looked up at the sky and saw one - one of the Sky Roombas! I thought, OMG I can see it! I can see a Sky Roomba!

Well. Then things went south. The Sky Roomba was like an asteroid that fell to the earth right next to my house. There was a huge boom and the earth/my house shook. Suddenly things seemed really ominous and scary, like I was in danger. I thought to myself, wait, this doesn't make sense, this can't be happening, this must be a dream. I then proceeded to get the hell outta dodge.

That led to my first experience that day. I will add that in this "campus bookstore/resource center" scenario, there were lots of other people milling around, going about their business. I had the sense that they were other projectors. Maybe yes maybe no, but that was my inclination - rather than, say, other entities that are not now and have never been human that happened to be there. Or, they could have been illusory/just for show.

As far as how my thinking while APing compares to my PR thinking - there are both similarities and differences. I've noticed that I'm not afraid while I'm out (well, as long as I'm not electrocuted, I guess!), rather I'm overwhelmingly happy, joyful, eager, and grateful. It feels normal and natural, like it's just where I want to be. Whenever I'm out, and I feel myself slipping away and losing focus, I'm never ready. I always want to stay out longer, to learn more. I admittedly am a bit impatient and have been a pain with my 29 million questions, but with all yall's advice and input I've learned I need to take a back seat and not force answers before it's time.

I have indeed at times noticed vivid imagery and colors. Tactile sensations were I think the first thing I marveled at when I started (like, holy crap I can FEEL stuff out there!), I've felt temperature (including sweat on my body), both discomfort/strain as well as pain in my energy body, and now taste. Sound is a bit weird because sometimes it's hard to tell If I know someone said something because I "heard" it or because it was telepathy. It almost seems like the same thing. But I did hear music in the distance at least once. The only sense I haven't experienced yet is smell.

Had a BRIEF one the next morning, and it does seem to be a continuation of this theme:



1 Sept 2020

Out of body experience - astral projection

Man in a suit, like he was an administrator. He walks me down a hallway. I’m walking behind him. I don’t see his face, just the back of his head and suit. He knocks on a door, but we don’t go in. He turns around and I follow him - we’re walking back down the hallway the way we came. He stops at another door and we go in. Inside, it looks like a college dorm room. It’s fully furnished with a bed, desk, even things like decorations, pillows, etc. It’s decorated with what appear to be welcome notes/cards seemingly addressed to me (reading words is always a bit of a challenge, out there!).

The man said: “Get a pencil to tell yourself all the skills, to remind yourself everyday.”

That’s it. Then it was over.


All this also reminds me of how a few experiences ago, when I asked the guy who was my guide that day what the point of that experience was, he said "To be acquisitive", and I went aw hell, lemme go grab whatever I can find then - and what manifested for me to grab was "office supplies". But you know? That could also be interpreted to be....school supplies.

Accelerated courses, gosh I hope so. But, how does it work if it's all "subconscious" and we don't *know* what we even learned??
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 06:21:26 by GrumpyRabbit » Logged
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« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2020, 09:20:49 »

So, there can be lead-in type dreams that can be significant, as well as lead-out dreams...looks like you had both.

We can learn much, if not more on subconscious levels than we ever considered, it seems...incredibly frustrating I agree, because it happens to me quite regularly...

Did you have a chance to read any of Kurt Leland, either his log or his book Otherwhere?

« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 09:40:33 by EscapeVelocity » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2020, 10:07:57 »

Yes, I read through a bunch of his experiences on his website. He recounts these epic conversations, word for word, and it seems some of the conversations took an hour or two. He couldn't possibly remember every word, right? Or is he putting his own words to the impressions he got? I don't know how it's possible to remember all that!
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« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2020, 10:56:06 »

With some editing and some additions-

It’s not just you or me or several others who have wondered about the length and depth of Leland’s experiences. Has he filled in some areas? Maybe so; but I will credit him with getting the insights and the truth of what is going on, better than most; so I let the question go for now. His insights are just that accurate and for me, helpful.
GR,
The reason I asked that question is to determine if you might have been “front-loaded” by some Leland information...not necessarily a bad thing but it serves as to the authenticity of your experiences. That’s kind of why I was initially hesitant on offering the Leland ideas, because I could already see where your experiences were leading.

Reading through your prior experiences, I got the same idea that I had at the same time during my own experiences...where am I...what is going on...what does this experience mean? Leland was the first to finally give some ‘present day’ context for me to consider. Our early dreams take place right where we naturally might consider they would- within our own Personal Dreamspace. When we are ready, we move into the Simulation Zone where a curriculum of prepared experiences awaits us, various tests and so forth (these show up even in our early childhood)...once we successfully deal with the Simulations, we are allowed entrance into the Astral Proper or the General Astral Population and that Astral area which leads into development of the next area, by Theosophical definition this would be the Mental, Causal, Buddhic and higher levels. It’s just the most sensible framework that I presently have to work with and that keeps some level of conformity.

Leland is the first and only author that I am aware of, to describe the necessity of a test (occult authors vaguely refer to it) of the requirement to show the maturity and mental capability to move into these higher regions, and he accurately describes it; this is the completion of an understanding of the Ten Levels of Dreaming. He calls it an Initiation Level event, and I agree, now that I can look back to consider it.

With due respect to Leland, I won’t list all the Dream levels (it's in his book Otherwhere)... but GR, you hit all of them. As I was reading through your post, I was just waiting and expecting them...from sentence to sentence and they were there!

Leland’s Ten Levels talks about going from, in one OBE/LD/Projection through alll the dream levels, from bare recognition, to noticing a lengthy plot, to second or third person perspective, to colors, tastes and sounds, then realizing the NP ability to change things, then to final realization of self control... again, Leland calls it an Initiation Level event. Maybe it’s what I consider an eighth level Octave moment that launches the next Octave series of learning...hence the idea of sevens, the Western musical scale of seven steps then the octave, followed by the next series of seven. But it is noteworthy, it is big.

This is the NP test that moves you from the etheric or ordinary, the mundane or the base NPR ...it is very subtle in how it plays out, like just another set of dreams. For me it all happened in one long Lucid Dream, and I still didn’t realize it for several months. You had it in two or three installments. In my own experience, Szaxx warned me about my tendency towards annoyance...and quite honestly, I didn’t get it at the time, perhaps more now, until reading yours GR...where I now recognize a possible issue for you...not a great one, but still one to be considered. Your experience has also served a dual purpose to reinforce my own experience and to realize even more just how incredible these teaching moments are; they are not just ours; they move beyond us and serve to offer insights on many levels to seekers of many levels.

In the Theosophical system, this is your graduation event into the Astral Proper. You can now tour about the place. Nearly all restrictions are removed. You should notice that in the coming months.

Your last post mentioned the administration official...you might capitalize that as Administration Official...nice interpretive recognition! Lol...he was kind of informally announcing your advancement while advising you to maybe take notes...I didn't even get that much of a send off, much less an announcement, lol.

Here is my experience-
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_dreams/talking_to_the_hand-t46266.0.html

Once again, nice work!
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 08:45:27 by EscapeVelocity » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2020, 22:31:11 »

Thank you, EV!

That's exactly why I didn't start reading any more books about the topic, yet. I wanted to get my bearings more, get my feet under me, and that I have a solid sense of things before doing that - if I read about something *after the fact* in a book that matches up with something I already experienced, all the better!

So, if I am allowed to enter the Astral Proper now, this may be a silly question, but: how do I get there? For example, I've been using the request, "take me where I need to go, teach me what I need to know." And I get whisked off somewhere, which you've described as the Simulation Zone. If I *continue* to use that same request, would I automatically be taken to a higher/more advanced learning/training experience in the Astral? Or, would I get sent back to where I was before - sort of like repeating the 8th grade LOL. I want to keep learning and advancing in skill and understanding; I want to know what my mission in this life is; I want to know if I am really a "Perceptionist" (if I heard that right) and if so, what is that? What does that mean? So if the go-to phrasing of my request will function to keep advancing me up the ladder and will eventually lead to answers, that's great. I hope it's multi-functional like that! Goodness knows that when I ask for specific things I want to know about (e.g., asking for someone who will tell me what my mission is) it is completely ineffectual. At least, it was before. Does graduating to the Astral Proper mean that direct questions like that will actually be answered?

On to Leland's "initiation event" - very interesting theory. I definitely never would have guessed that's what all that was! When you say 2nd and 3rd person perspectives, do you mean that I was "inhabiting" those perspectives, or it was simply the introduction of one other person (a "you"), and then multiple other people (a "they" or "you all") to the scenario?

I'm guessing the ability to change things test was, me changing my size? Or was that the final realization of self control?

Yes, I definitely need to work on my annoyance/frustration! It's gotten better but could still use some more work.

How do you know the last experience with the Admin guy showing me into a college dorm room scene was an announcement of my advancement? I picked up on the "take notes" part...but, what's the announcement? I interpreted it as representing a learning environment. Where the things that appeared to be the welcome notes representing an announcement?

Now I read your own experience. Very interesting! I'm amazed you were able to remember everything, that was a long one - good thing you reclaimed that video camera at the end =) Do you think the friendly demeanor and joyful laughter of the guy standing out in the sunshine was symbolic of the energy of "announcing" your completion of the test?
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« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2020, 07:13:23 »

I'm a firm believer that while non-physical, you experience through your learned physical constructs.
Meaning that if you have only ever seen something a certain way, chances are much better that THAT is how you'll experience a projection.

I always say that WHAT you experience while projecting is objective, however HOW you experience it is subjective.

Consciousness isn't segmented into "this is *MY* part" and "this is *YOUR* part".  Consciousness is consciousness.  It's a WHOLE.  All parts of that whole have access to the rest of it.
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« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2020, 08:27:03 »

Hi GR,

So I read Leland's Otherwhere back around 2012/13, so one could argue that I was front-loaded with the whole Ten Levels of Dreaming idea. It wasn't in the forefront of my consciousness, but no doubt it was there in my subconscious. It wasn't until a couple months later after my Talking to the Hand experience that it hit me and I went back and retraced my steps and I saw the progression. In my exp it wasn't 1,2,3,4...and in yours I see the same thing...so all these dream levels don't appear to necessarily have to happen in an exact order, your exp seems to confirm what was my current thinking. Neat how that can happen.

So in Leland's Ten Levels, #10 is full-on realization that you are indeed dreaming and that you have considerable control over your environment. That seems to be how it played out in his experience in his book, but that didn't happen for me in mine, nor it seems for you, in yours. At the start of my exp I was immediately aware that I was in a Lucid Dream and conscious within the NPR. Now I chose to go along with the storyline/narrative and I lost a certain amount of awareness simply because I was strenuously following the plotline. I got the same feeling about you in yours. So we didn't need a Eureka! moment at the end of either your exp or mine...we had the knowing all along; and I think that definitely counts as satisfying the requirement.

The Astral and the Astral Proper- I don't pretend to know but I have to draw some lines somewhere...anything non-physical is happening somewhere, apparently in some huge energy system that includes this physical universe. So rather than argue endlessly about physical, dream, etheric, astral, mental, akashic...and on and on...many of us have just consented to agree on PR Physical Reality and NPR Non-Physical Reality. The acronyms actually do help unlike elsewhere, lol. Personally, I will say that I have seen your experiences move from the Etheric to the personal dreamspace of the Astral and now you are getting a taste of the Mental level dimension. The Mental is like a higher subdivision of the Astral. The next level is the Causal, to give it a name and it is experienced from a nearly bodiless form, maybe point-of-consciousness perspective...so if you've had a taste of that, a glimpse usually, then there 'ya go. So it can be argued that the Astral is where you are when you close your eyes and go deep. NPR. It could be argued that it's all NPR; we are just experiencing it from and through different energy bodies, so we can both be in the same 'place' and yet experience differently based on the consciousness vehicle we are each utilizing. And then there is our individual interpretation. You and I seem to be in somewhat similar Leland-type interpretation models. That's not everyone, but I'm starting to notice some type of 'groupings'. So we notice our own...

So how do you get to the Astral Proper- Again, it's just a name and a definition of a kind of boundary. You are already there, you have been...this is where all this stuff is happening. Imagination, daydreaming, dreaming, projection...this is all in the Astral or NPR. It's a function of filters and awareness and focus and Intent; whether they are in place or removed. What I have found is that we get treated to glimpses from time to time. Okay, we've seen from an Etheric level...we have experienced from an Astral level, maybe a higher definition level that could be labeled Mental...the tricky ones are like seeing everything as a multi-colored energy matrix (hence the movie?)...was that Causal or Buddhic or something else? How am I to explain point consciousness, where I have no body, physical or otherwise?

GR- I think your now standard request of "Take me where I need to go..." is something you should stick with and an awesome reminder to new travelers. The teaching continues, the lessons continue...we are always challenged to improve and the reasons aren't ever clear. Sorry, but that's how it seems. If you have a specific request...now, I think you can expect a better result. But the wry answers, the mysterious non-replies, the dry witticisms...nah, that seems to be the punch-line of the NPR...they won't give that up...and maybe we won't either, once we are in their shoes...
Don't count on getting certain answers...some of them you may have been the one to decide to withhold it from yourself...how about that thought?!
I've asked to meet my personal Guide(s) for forty years...nothing! I've pleaded, begged, cried, demanded!...nothing. Seen him or them on the edges. Somebody definitely assisted me to visiting my dad briefly after he died; it wasn't my ability. Talking to the Hand was the most I have ever gotten an idea of their presence. When I did my Gateway program at Monroe in 2018, I met this wonderful lady who was just discovering her talents. She described exploring her channeling abilities with her 8 (count 'em!) Guides...I politely asked that when she got home, could she ask her guides why I have no communication from my own. Three months later she responded. She said she really wanted to be sure of the message so she checked with another knowledgeable channeler  who checked with her several guides and got the same message. They all had agreed that I came to Earth and refused any obvious help, that I chose to do it on my own as best as I could, no communication, no advice...nothing. That froze me. But it explained so much.

So GR, being graduated, if that's what happened and it's only my interpretation of your interpretation of an experience...then yeah, I think you get some more room to move around, but it is all still relevant and personal to you. The lessons never end, it seems. Special requests may now get a little more attention from their side, so go for it; I don't know what answers you may receive.

2nd and 3rd person perspectives- I had my first taste of this during an Etheric exp when I was watching my PR body lying in bed and had a brief flashback to it, then back to my Etheric projection body, then suddenly I realized I was watching the scene from a third vantage point, seeing both my PR and my Etheric bodies...that was startling. There were other moments but I will mention my Talking to the Hand exp...I did not include this but the ride on the train...I had initially started to board the passenger car but it was full and loud with talk and confusion, so I instinctively avoided it and chose the flat lumber railcar. Some guy had joined me and was prattling on and I went silent and deep and during a minute or so, I realized I was also flying about a hundred feet above, looking down on myself.
My point in this is that we can experience multiple perspectives of consciousness, either in rapid succession or even simultaneously...it is a huge stretch of the mind, but that is part of the fun and training.

Annoyance/frustration- I guess we all deal with that to some degree, but that was not a problem I noticed with you; that was my problem. What I noticed with you was a tendency to apologize for yourself when it didn't really call for it. I can certainly understand it when we are in NPR situations...last thing I want to do is offend or screw up a Simulation. But do we get too preoccupied with 'stepping on toes'? And is this a difficulty for you in PR life? Annoyance turned out to be a problem that I need to deal with, maybe this one is yours?

The 'ability to change things' test- It wasn't the final realization of self-control; I think like me, you displayed that knowledge throughout the experience, so it really wasn't noticeable as 'a moment'...what it was, was your demonstration of a NP or Non-Physical skill to change the environment just enough to not violate the overall integrity of the Simulation...a nuclear detonation might have been a bit too much...just sayin'...making yourself small...never done that myself! Nice!

The last exp with the administrator? You're moving into a college dorm...are you kidding me? The interpretation being that your level of education is moving upward? Hello! and you got Welcome notes!? I didn't get Welcome notes! I didn't get crap! Who do I write to? Who do I sue?!

You wanted banners, balloons and fireworks? Maybe an Air Force flyover? Sorry, I didn't get even what you did, LOL.  grin 





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« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2020, 22:25:39 »

I always say that WHAT you experience while projecting is objective, however HOW you experience it is subjective.

A very good way to put it, thank you!


Personally, I will say that I have seen your experiences move from the Etheric to the personal dreamspace of the Astral and now you are getting a taste of the Mental level dimension. The Mental is like a higher subdivision of the Astral.

What are the indicators of experiencing something on the Mental level?

The next level is the Causal, to give it a name and it is experienced from a nearly bodiless form, maybe point-of-consciousness perspective...so if you've had a taste of that, a glimpse usually, then there 'ya go.

I remember *trying* to do this, and I was unceremoniously immediately booted back to my body LOL apparently they thought I was being ridiculous for thinking I could do that, yet!

It could be argued that it's all NPR; we are just experiencing it from and through different energy bodies, so we can both be in the same 'place' and yet experience differently based on the consciousness vehicle we are each utilizing. And then there is our individual interpretation.

Great way of putting it!

GR- I think your now standard request of "Take me where I need to go..." is something you should stick with and an awesome reminder to new travelers. The teaching continues, the lessons continue...we are always challenged to improve and the reasons aren't ever clear. Sorry, but that's how it seems. If you have a specific request...now, I think you can expect a better result. But the wry answers, the mysterious non-replies, the dry witticisms...nah, that seems to be the punch-line of the NPR...they won't give that up...and maybe we won't either, once we are in their shoes...

Thank you!

Don't count on getting certain answers...some of them you may have been the one to decide to withhold it from yourself...how about that thought?!
I've asked to meet my personal Guide(s) for forty years...nothing! I've pleaded, begged, cried, demanded!...nothing. Seen him or them on the edges. Somebody definitely assisted me to visiting my dad briefly after he died; it wasn't my ability. Talking to the Hand was the most I have ever gotten an idea of their presence. When I did my Gateway program at Monroe in 2018, I met this wonderful lady who was just discovering her talents. She described exploring her channeling abilities with her 8 (count 'em!) Guides...I politely asked that when she got home, could she ask her guides why I have no communication from my own. Three months later she responded. She said she really wanted to be sure of the message so she checked with another knowledgeable channeler  who checked with her several guides and got the same message. They all had agreed that I came to Earth and refused any obvious help, that I chose to do it on my own as best as I could, no communication, no advice...nothing. That froze me. But it explained so much.

Wow. That's both illuminating and (I assume) also really frustrating. I've often wondered about what may be the "contracts" or stipulations I agreed to (not sure the right word), that could explain various things about my life, and if it's possible to *break* those contracts/agreements.

Annoyance/frustration- I guess we all deal with that to some degree, but that was not a problem I noticed with you; that was my problem. What I noticed with you was a tendency to apologize for yourself when it didn't really call for it. I can certainly understand it when we are in NPR situations...last thing I want to do is offend or screw up a Simulation. But do we get too preoccupied with 'stepping on toes'? And is this a difficulty for you in PR life? Annoyance turned out to be a problem that I need to deal with, maybe this one is yours?

I definitely spend a long time being annoyed, frustrated, and begging for direct answers to my questions. I've gotten a lot better about it, but it took awhile, and a lot of advice from this group! As far as stepping on toes - I don't know, I think if an entity displays annoyance or offense, perhaps we should apologize? why wouldn't we? I hear a lot about the importance of expressing gratitude for the help and guidance we get, so this seems like a necessary corollary to that, all rooted in respect and appreciation.

The last exp with the administrator? You're moving into a college dorm...are you kidding me? The interpretation being that your level of education is moving upward? Hello! and you got Welcome notes!? I didn't get Welcome notes! I didn't get crap! Who do I write to? Who do I sue?!

You wanted banners, balloons and fireworks? Maybe an Air Force flyover? Sorry, I didn't get even what you did, LOL.  grin

LOLLOL Aw, poor EV. I'll put in a good word for you with the Administrator, maybe they can send some balloons your way  cheesy
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« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2020, 07:49:07 »

Experiencing at the Mental level?- I think that there are higher subdivisions of the Astral that can be argued as Mental...they show even higher levels of focus and consistency, mental coherence and so forth...but that is still an incomplete picture. The higher Causal or Buddhic level experiences are really one off kinds of things.  I am fervently waiting Leland's book that describes the Mental Plane...the few books I have are just not satisfactory (Powell, Leadbeater)...the personal stories here are as much as you will find...

The "Unceremoniously Immediately Booted Back To My Body" Club...yeah, I'm a member and likely the term-limited President until the end of 2020...so I gotcha and understand!, LOL. You are welcome to take over the role! I'm beginning to think the Astral club we will be a part of is like a fairly rough biker gang...I plan on making things difficult for some people...just sayin' and fair warning...

Still loving in my own way...in the really non-existant pandemic, EV
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« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2020, 01:04:54 »

2 Oct 2020
Out of body experience - lucid dream - astral projection?

It’s been *quite* a long time. On 7 Sept, my qigong teacher told me to focus on nothing but qigong for the time being, and to stop all other practices (meditation, shamanic journeying, etc), as she thinks too much of my energy is being directed outwards, and my energy is confused, which she thinks is contributing to my chronic illness. I didn't intentionally stop APing, however...it just...stopped. So, I wonder if this had anything to do with why it’s been so long since I’ve been out.

But, this morning, it happened again. I had a series of experiences this morning, and stupidly didn’t write them all down whenever I shifted back fully to my body, because I was afraid of "waking up" too much and being unable to easily slip back out. I remember getting to that state. I even tried crawling away from my physical body, further and further, to make sure I fully was in my energy body, and when I was sure, I said my usual - Take me where I need to go, teach me what I need to know! No hands, but floated on my back and felt movement. It felt really good to be experiencing these things again. Of course, this time, I was very much aware of what my qigong teacher had said, and wondered if this was a good idea - like a misbehaving child who was told not to eat cookies before dinner and thinking, well, maybe just one won't hurt....

Since most of this is fuzzy, I can only say that at some point, I appeared to be in outer space - I didn’t ask to go there, but it’s where I wound up. I’d never been here before. It clearly wasn’t normal space. Strange colors, formations, objects. It was pretty spectacular, and I even remember thinking there was no way I would be able to remember and describe what I was seeing! A large portion of my experiences seemed to revolve around the basics: trying to control my limbs and movement. My legs and arms felt leaden, heavy, still, almost paralyzed, or stuck. I could hardly get anything to move. I also periodically had repeated difficulty getting my eyes open and seeing clearly. There was a period where different objects were thrown at me, and it seemed my job was to try to get my arms to move, to catch them - or at least, touch/make contact with them. At one point, I managed to catch a tambourine - and even tapped it a bit to play it! This is so similar to my *very first* experience out of body, where there was one object that kept being thrown at me, and I held another object in my hand, and I had to tap the object I was holding to the object being thrown - practicing hand-eye coordination.

It’s strange, like I was somehow back to the beginning. I wonder, Is this because it’s been so long that I was out? Is this because I’m at a higher “level” of energy reality, and thus, honest to goodness have to relearn the basics of how to move again, at this new level or "place"? I don’t know. I wish I had forced myself to write everything down after each experience, that probably would have revealed something, because I KNOW words were exchanged between myself and "them"!
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« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2020, 07:33:58 »

Again I will stress that this is my interpretation of your interpretation of a NPR experience. A lot of cross-interpretation going on, but I think several insights may be illuminated. This reminded me of a very similar experience I had at that point in my learning, and like you, I had not realized it's importance and failed to journal it as a result.

A "series of experiences" should be enough to alert you by now that something significant is happening and should demand your attention. Your initial read on "outer space" was right in more than one sense: You hadn't experienced being there before so that was a good insight that it was new but it didn't feel quite right so that may have been an insight that it was a Simulation or your realization of a new and different set of energies which would require new interpretation, again whichever it was a good insight and a sign of developing awareness.

Leland wrote what was for me a very significant insight, that we can be exploring a new and higher energy level/body while still consolidating experiences at the previous level. Now, for me this was initially confusing because I still had doubts as to which energy level/body I was exploring and there were apparently crossover interpretation issues going on. What helps in this is to simply have more data through a slowly widening range of experiences. For example, remember how difficult it was to initially move around in your Etheric body? Slow motion, gravity was off in some way, couldn't open your eyes? That was all because you were applying a PR frame of reference to a new and different energy level. The same happened as you moved into the Astral: Events happen much faster, movement was not so much of a problem, the visual environment was cleaner but new difficulties occurred- emotions of all kinds, confusion, cognitive ability, the situations became more complex...now this experience may be reminding you that in this new environment, you have to rediscover your sensory abilities not by applying any of the earlier frameworks, but by learning and developing another framework, a newer, faster, better model. This experience may have been an introduction to the Upper Astral or Lower Mental energy level, if you wish to describe it that way. And yes, it certainly does feel like you are almost starting over...and again that realization is very likely another good insight on your part and a sign of your awareness increasing.

 For me, at this point, I felt like I had finally experienced enough different perspectives that a larger picture or framework was coming into view, one that really made me understand just how much of all this is sensing and interpreting energy systems and structures, which is what NPR is.

So yes, you are right. At each new level, it appears that we have to start with the "basics" of that level.

And I think you instinctively knew that you shouldn't wake up to record this at the time; you may have lost the energy level completely. So your only option was to stay 'submerged' and work through as best as you could, which is also great training at the instinctive level. Thus you noticed how "fuzzy" the experience was, which for me means that my awareness is not quite up to speed yet. And that is how it goes...

Great experience! Looks like the weeks of qigong paid off to build the energy to get there!
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« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2020, 10:32:26 »

 After talking with EV a bit more about your thread here Grumpy, I decided to post a few things I saw there as well. EV does such a damn good job of explaining things that it is hard to find anything else to say, lol!  smiley

 As many others here know already, when I was just learning to consciously AP, I had a experience in the "Astral/NPR" where my deceased brother in law was on a stage giving a seminar of some type. I seemed to be pretty far back in the crowd. He then bent down and picked up a bow and arrow that I guess were lying on the stage and he pointed the arrow at me and fired. I watched in slow motion as the arrow began to approach me. This was my first experience with anything like this that had "depth" to it. It's hard to explain, but that experienced seemed to teach me about "depth perception" in the NP.
 It was shortly after that that I began experimenting to virtual "yo-yo's", ping pong and other sports simulations that involved not only motion, but "depth" as well. Shooting a basketball into a hoop quickly became my "got to" for "priming the pump".  From there my next lessons were all based on  "navigating" my new surroundings.

 When I read your most recent journal entry here I see that you still maintain a very physical mindset, even while in NP experience. I feel that your lesson in this one was that you need to change that. You could have caught any of those objects with just a mere thought.

 To progress and move forward you need to have a mindset that matches what lies beyond the next veil. There many other areas you can find yourself in, levels some them, that defy any thinking at all of a physical form. You may get some brief sneak peeks of what could be or what lies next, but now you have learn a  whole new way of "navigating" to be able to access this new "dimension". The same thing happens once again when you are ready to experience the next dimension after that and so on.

 Lastly I wanted to share this thread here with you. I know you are coming at this from more of a "Shamanistic" approach. A few nights ago I heard on of my favorites speaking on just that. His name is Robert Moss and there is a video of his that he made years ago here at this link:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_dreams/dreaming_is_waking_up-t39742.0.html
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