Summerland Revisited

[Xanth]

If one is not to take one's projections literally, and if they are simply "what you experience is an interpretation of experiences" and not any reality outside of oneself, it appears to me that it is an activity where one is sort of "masturbating" with one's own experiences.

No doubt it could be useful and relaxing to indulge one's fantasies, to get lost in one's own fantasy world for a while. In the same way as people now en masse get lost in the video fantasy games. I am sure many find them relaxing and even a means of discovering oneself, or how one relates to the others and the surroundings, the fantasy ones and otherwise. Yet is this helping to fulfil one's mission with which one came to this physical world?

Nono, I'm not saying that what you experience is "fantasy" or "made up from your mind"... although in some cases, that *could* be true.  But, mostly it's not and depends entirely upon the source of what you're seeing, HOWEVER...

As a consciousness, you can only experience that which you experience within the paradigm of the sum of what you've experienced previously.  For example, describe to me what a "Dadipladouche" (I made that up btw LoL) is.  If you experienced a Dadipladouche in the non-physical how will you know it's a Dadipladouche?   Now, *I* know what a Dadipladouche is... so when I experience one, I have something from my experiences to draw from so that I experience a Dadipladouche.  If I didn't have the experience to draw from, it would appear to me as something as close to an interpretation that I have in my memory/experiences of something else.  If I didn't know what this mystical Dadipladouche was, and if it was a "big creature" of some kind, it might appear to me as a Dragon or a Dinosaur as just two examples.  Since that would be the closest matches that my consciousness could make in order to "define" it and make it "understandable" to me.

What you experience "IS REAL".  How you experience it is a metaphor... an interpretation based upon the sum of your previous experiences as something to draw from for that interpretation to take form.

Does that make sense? 

[Aims]

Hello Ryan and Summerlander,

To tell you the truth, I have absolutely no desire to experience any "Dadipladouche" or any such similar unknown things or entities.

I believe spiritual truths are simple and easy to grasp, if only our Ego did not stand in the way. Certain experiences are delivered from higher realms and should not be trivialized. We should not allow our Ego to do so. If we disregard such messages, there are consequences. Consider this quotation:

“If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.” Numbers 12:6

Summerlender without much realizing it, might have had such a prophetic dream concerning himself and destiny of those with spiritual aspirations. I simply wanted to point this out to him, regardless of whatever his Ego chooses to decide and believe this experience was all about.

I believe Adrian started this forum because of personal spiritual aspirations. But somehow, there is no spiritual focus in this forum at all.

[Xanth]

Hello Ryan and Summerlander,

To tell you the truth, I have absolutely no desire to experience any "Dadipladouche" or any such similar unknown things or entities.

When you project, you open yourself up to everything the non-physical has to offer.  You don't really have a big choice in it.  You do have SOME choice, but not much.

I believe Adrian started this forum because of personal spiritual aspirations. But somehow, there is no spiritual focus in this forum at all.

The "MAIN FOCUS" of this forum is to teach beginners how to Astral Project.

I'm actually very baffled by your statement though... are you serious?  You see NO spiritual focus in this forum at all?  O_o

[Aims]

Not really,

This forum gives me an impression of people aspiring to meditate on their own navel. Maybe some consider this spiritual…

I came periodically here and then I would always retreat. I prefer Adrian’s other forum, OUR ULTIMATE REALITY one, though it is a very slow forum, not as racy as this one.
http://www.ourultimatereality.com/forums/index.php

[Xanth]

Are you always this... crass?   

I'm terribly sorry that we don't live up to your expectations.
I can assure you that you're quite mistaken in your assumption though.

I invite you to stick around, read some more, take some more in... then if you still feel that way, feel free to not post. 

[Aims]

When you project, you open yourself up to everything the non-physical has to offer.  You don't really have a big choice in it.  You do have SOME choice, but not much.

Crass??? Did I offend you or your ego by stating exactly what I think? There might be others who are reticent to say what they think...

What scares me in your statement above, one has no choice? I certainly would not like to be in a position where I have no choice, especially concerning spiritual matters. Even God gives free choice to everybody. Maybe this is what keeps me reticent about the astral projection business, because one does not really know what one is getting into and has no choice. One can be exposed to forces beyond one's comprehension and ability to protect oneself from. This might not simply be like playing an imaginary video game, but actually something, the forces, we should not be dealing with at all if we aspire for a Summerland. And we certainly always have a conscious ability to choose what we aspire for, and to move in that direction and even achieve it without any practices that have a potential to expose us to a lot of situations where we have no choice or control, and which might even detract us from our principle goal.

Life is simply too short... there are too many distractions...

[Xanth]

Crass??? Did I offend you or your ego by stating exactly what I think? There might be others who are reticent to say what they think...

Aren't you just the charmer. 

What scares me in your statement above, one has no choice? I certainly would not like to be in a position where I have no choice, especially concerning spiritual matters. Even God gives free choice to everybody. Maybe this is what keeps me reticent about the astral projection business, because one does not really know what one is getting into and has no choice. One can be exposed to forces beyond one's comprehension and ability to protect oneself from. This might not simply be like playing an imaginary video game, but actually something, the forces, we should not be dealing with at all if we aspire for a Summerland. And we certainly always have a conscious ability to choose what we aspire for, and to move in that direction and even achieve it without any practices that have a potential to expose us to a lot of situations where we have no choice or control, and which might even detract us from our principle goal.

Life is simply too short... there are too many distractions...

It kind of sounds like you're not quite ready for astral projection... you're letting fear dictate your path.  If you can move past that and give it a try regardless, you can minimize any negativeness you might run into by exploring with only Good Intentions in your heart. 

[Aims]

I think you are missing my point. It is not a question of fear but of spiritual aim and purpose. It is like getting caught in trivialities and missing all together the grand design and what one really should be deeply concerned about and work for. There might not be all that much time left, really... to make ones choices and decisions and to establish on which vibration level one is going to end up...

Where your thought goes, this is where your spirit goes. Does it go to "Dadipladouche"?

The spirituals realms were revealed to us in ancient books and are known. God had spoken to may ancient prophets and revealed the spiritual truths. So there is no point really in being preoccupied to experience any lesser vibes such as discovering any "Dadipladouche" or such.

The interesting fact is the God chooses to whom he speaks of his truth. And when that happens it should be greatly valued, and this was my point to Summerlander in case it had happened to him. This is why I decided to speak at all in this forum, not because I want to experience "Dadipladouche". I'd rather aim to experiencing the Summerland.

[Xanth]

I think you are missing my point. It is not a question of fear but of spiritual aim and purpose. It is like getting caught in trivialities and missing all together the grand design and what one really should be deeply concerned about and work for. There might not be all that much time left, really... to make ones choices and decisions and to establish on which vibration level one is going to end up...

Where your thought goes, this is where your spirit goes. Does it go to "Dadipladouche"?

The spirituals realms were revealed to us in ancient books and are known. God had spoken to may ancient prophets and revealed the spiritual truths. So there is no point really in being preoccupied to experience any lesser vibes such as discovering any "Dadipladouche" or such.

The interesting fact is the God chooses to whom he speaks of his truth. And when that happens it should be greatly valued, and this was my point to Summerlander in case it had happened to him. This is why I decided to speak at all in this forum, not because I want to experience "Dadipladouche". I'd rather aim to experiencing the Summerland.

That sounds like a "fear" to me.

In any case, you won't *know* until you try. 

[Summerlander]

I don't know what that place was.  I call it "Summerland" because it is similar to descriptions I found of that afterlife world in Theosophy and Spiritualism.  But believing it to be an afterlife realm is an interpretation.

This is quite rhetorical and obviously written with the intent to draw masses together to support one interpretation too:

“If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.” Numbers 12:6

The truth is, nobody knows what it was that I and others have experienced.  There is no certainty.  Yes, it seemed magical, colourful, harmonious, loving...but was it anything divine?  Don't certain drugs make you experience similar things (bright colours, awesome hallucinations, dramatic changes in mood etc.)  What about the correlation between the release and activation of certain hormones and neurotransmitters and how an individual feels?

Another thing that sprung to mind.  When I returned to wakefulness from that amazing world, I felt extremely sad because I wanted to be there forever.  In a way, such experienced seemed to feed my ego, I felt driven by desire, I felt deprived of something great - like a child who had his lolly taken away, and, in that sense, it was spiritually counter-productive.

In Buddhism, nirvana is beyond spiritual development.  It is simply the annihilation of Self and the cessation of being.  Although it promotes altruism, the pursuit of such state should NOT be motivated by ego.  Also, the thought of nirvana sounds dreadful to most.  Why should I be concerned with where I am headed spiritually if being concerned means that I worry and I'm scared about where I'll end up?  I think the best way is not to worry.  Do what you like and just believe that there is nothing that will punish you.  The punishment will come from yourself if you believe that you should be punished for something that you've done.  

As long as you are not hurting anyone then everything is fine.  You are only truly free if you don't concern yourself with possible destinations.  If you don't worry about where you'll end up then you are truly free.

I could be told by St Pete that I'll be sent to hell, and if I want, in my mind, that wouldn't bother me.  Hell is only hell if you make it so.  If it is unpleasant at first, rather than see it as doom and gloom, you can see it as a challenge and make it fun in your mind.  If the situation is entrapment and desperation erupts...just give up and let nature take its course.  Build resistance to the pain.  If the demons get you and it means that it is the end of you...so be it.  In the end, hell only exists in the mind and it will be there for as long as you allow it too.

As the Roman philosopher Seneca once said:
"You must want nothing if you wish to challenge Jupiter who wants nothing himself."

 

[Xanth]

Pretty much... the best we can say is, "I don't know". 

If you can learn to live with uncertainty, you can learn to live with "I don't know" as an answer.

[Aims]

Hello Summerlander and all,

The need and drive for spiritual advancement and for a personal spiritual journey progression upward does not come from one’s Ego but from one’s Higher Self. The longing for such advancement and desiring to reach the sublime planes, the nostalgia for it also comes from the Higher Self. One has to desire the spiritual growth, that’s one and only way to get on a spiritual journey. One has to choose it and desire it, desire to reach the highest sublime heights. This has nothing to do with Ego. In fact, one’s Ego could be the strongest deterrent to such a desire and to one’s  spiritual advancement, because it likes to play games with your mind.

Many people who had near death experiences reached some place not unlike as what you described as Summerland. They did not want to leave, but were sent back, and they also experienced a deep sense of nostalgia for that place. This experience changed their lives. Not all near death experiences are like that, some are truly hellish.

So basically one has to chose, and then deeply and sincerely desire to achieve their spiritual heights’ goal, and then restructure their inner and mental reality accordingly. That's the only way.

[Xanth]

That's the only way.

The only thing I have to say is... beware of ultimatums. 

[Aims]

Yes, it is the ultimate goal that has to be deeply desired to be able to achieve it.

[Xanth]

No, I mean beware of people who say "<so and so> is the ONLY way".
It shows a closed mind.