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Author Topic: Summerland Revisited  (Read 21362 times)
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« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2011, 17:12:54 »

Actually, I would consider this a "dream awareness experience" because if it was "a dream" we certainly don't realize it.  Smiley

That confuses me
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Summerlander
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« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2011, 18:08:52 »

I guess the statement implies that the physical world is a persistent dream. Thomas Campbell states in his big TOE that the non-physical is only non-physical from the physical perspective. A non-physical being, for example, might deem our reality as non-physical and his as the physical or even the only real one. The laws of this entity's world would be how reality REALLY operates while the rules of our physical reality would be nonsensical.

Anyway, it's only a different way of looking at things. "Physical", "real", "surreal", "unreal" are only concepts that we came up with from an anthropological perspective. Get rid of all your concepts and you wipe the slate clean - this is our true nature in my opinion - the empty mind, nothingness, the room for creation, the ground of all being.

I had this conversation recently with Ssergiu. Buddha was right. To become awake is to realise that there is no observer nor observed. They are concepts arising in consciousness which we identify with to reaffirm our existence but, intrinsically, we are empty. Nirvana is the cessation of being - this, my friends, is waking up to your true nature.

Now Buddha believed that we are so bound by the illusions of samsaric existence, through desire, which causes us to be trapped in a cycle of deaths and rebirths, and that, if we want to escape this, much effort is needed in order to reach nirvana.

I, on the other hand, still consider the possibility that this nirvana could be attainable as soon as we die. Just like fainting, we become unconscious, cease to be. It's funny that when people wake up from having fainted, they are usually a little confused and have no idea of how much time has passed. All they know is that they lost their senses one minute and came to the next. Then they act surprised when you tell them that they've been gone for an hour. LOL! grin

If death is the end of experience (or one type of experience until the deleted file is recycled and reconfigured so to speak - IF!) then the bomb squad can relax when they disarm bombs because, if they get the wrong wire...they'll never know that they did! grin
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« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2011, 18:08:52 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2011, 21:23:24 »

Actually, I would consider this a "dream awareness experience" because if it was "a dream" we certainly don't realize it.  Smiley

If we say life is a dream, then who is the dreamer?

God...?

Whoa...  grin

But seriously, I know what you mean. Life is only a metaphorical dream, not an actual one. It can safely be called an illusion. Concepts, ideas, names, etc... they're all man-made tools to make sense of this reality. But the essence of it all cannot be grasped by intellect alone, it has to be experienced directly without any of the wordly senses interfering. Now that's easy to say, but without a doubt the most difficult thing one could achieve.

The Phase state is all about amazing experiences. Btw, Lightning, I like Megadeth too! LOL!

Cool, I like tons of different bands, but metal is my fav genre  evil

Proto-metal, everything doom/stoner, progressive and early thrash.

I guess the statement implies that the physical world is a persistent dream. Thomas Campbell states in his big TOE that the non-physical is only non-physical from the physical perspective. A non-physical being, for example, might deem our reality as non-physical and his as the physical or even the only real one. The laws of this entity's world would be how reality REALLY operates while the rules of our physical reality would be nonsensical.

Anyway, it's only a different way of looking at things. "Physical", "real", "surreal", "unreal" are only concepts that we came up with from an anthropological perspective. Get rid of all your concepts and you wipe the slate clean - this is our true nature in my opinion - the empty mind, nothingness, the room for creation, the ground of all being.

I had this conversation recently with Ssergiu. Buddha was right. To become awake is to realise that there is no observer nor observed. They are concepts arising in consciousness which we identify with to reaffirm our existence but, intrinsically, we are empty. Nirvana is the cessation of being - this, my friends, is waking up to your true nature.

Now Buddha believed that we are so bound by the illusions of samsaric existence, through desire, which causes us to be trapped in a cycle of deaths and rebirths, and that, if we want to escape this, much effort is needed in order to reach nirvana.

I, on the other hand, still consider the possibility that this nirvana could be attainable as soon as we die. Just like fainting, we become unconscious, cease to be. It's funny that when people wake up from having fainted, they are usually a little confused and have no idea of how much time has passed. All they know is that they lost their senses one minute and came to the next. Then they act surprised when you tell them that they've been gone for an hour. LOL! grin

If death is the end of experience (or one type of experience until the deleted file is recycled and reconfigured so to speak - IF!) then the bomb squad can relax when they disarm bombs because, if they get the wrong wire...they'll never know that they did! grin

I've been into Buddhism for a long time now (mainly Theravada) and everything the Buddha said makes perfect sense to me. I often watch the Ajahn Brahm talks posted on youtube. They are very basic and the man has a good sense of humor. For more advanced material, I go to www.accesstoinsight.org - you will find the metaphysical stuff there, for example:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html

Now... are there 31 planes existence? I don't know, but luckily the great majority of the places described are blissful realms  grin

I remember hearing a dhamma talk about how it's extremely important the state of your consciousness at the time of death. You have to remain focused on achieving liberation. It may not lead directly towards Nirvana, but you could be reborn in one of the highest realms with the strong conviction of finally awakening in that last reincarnation.

I'm not 100% sure about what happens after we die. Not sure if there is such a thing as reincarnation. I do believe in karma however, and I sure as hell don't like the idea of eternal punishment for people who didn't believe in certain dogmas.
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« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2011, 21:37:55 »

Thanks for this! I'm gonna check the Ajahn Brahm stuff and I'll get back to you on that!!! smiley

and yes, metal is phenomenal! I love thrash, the Big Four are amazing, I also love death and black metal. I'm also partial to other forms of rock/metal and I love blues and jazz! LOL

Buddha was the man!!!! I love Siddhartha Gautama. wink
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« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2011, 03:00:31 »

Thanks for this! I'm gonna check the Ajahn Brahm stuff and I'll get back to you on that!!! smiley

No problem  smiley

and yes, metal is phenomenal! I love thrash, the Big Four are amazing, I also love death and black metal. I'm also partial to other forms of rock/metal and I love blues and jazz! LOL

Hell yeah! But to be honest, the Big 4 have always been the Big 3 + Anthrax to me, if ya know what I mean  grin

Gotta love the blues. I also like jazz, but don't listen to it often these days. Mostly stuff from the 50s/60s: Miles, Herbie, Coltrane, Mingus, Wayne Shorter, Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, etc. Fusion is cool too.

Buddha was the man!!!! I love Siddhartha Gautama. wink

Damn right!  grin
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« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2011, 03:00:31 »



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« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2011, 21:20:01 »

 I love Rock in all forms. Classic/Metal etc., but not to meditate, lol. I have found that an english composer named Paul Collier has some excellent free you tube Astral Inducing music. I listen to Defragment your mid, 2012-A Theta Brainwave session and Song 54-Alpha to Delta. These are some of the most relaxing Binaural Beats I have found.
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« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2011, 00:52:05 »

I just checked out that Buddhist cosmology link and enjoyed it. Whether is literal or metaphorical is irrelevant indeed. What matters is the message behind it. The realms could represent mind states which effect your actions and cause and effect is set in motion. You get what you give. If you're a bastard to people then you're more likely to be hated and despised. If you're nice then there are only sadists left as a potential threat. Then you get hurt unfairly because you can't even remember what you did wrong in a past life. Grin
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« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2011, 04:38:54 »

That's the way I see it too. It's pointless to debate if they're real planes of existence, mental states, or both.

Then again, after many years of constant vipassana meditation one could find out for oneself in this lifetime  grin

You're right about karma, of course. An example is the life of Maudgalyāyana, one of the greatest disciples of the Buddha who mastered pretty much every supernatural ability, but since he had murdered his parents in a previous life, he suffered a horrible death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudgalyāyana
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« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2011, 15:56:15 »

Poor guy! shocked

What if his parents were bastards who deserved their deaths (excuse my sense of humour grin)? In a way Maudgalyāyana was unknowingly carrying out what was due to them according to Karma and at the same time accumulating his own. People can say karma is a grump but really, what happens to them is a product of their doing - you reap what you sow.

If karma is real and extends beyond this life (past and present), it also depends a lot upon how you look at it. Whether good or bad happens, the experience can be educational. The events in your life can make you wiser if you take them on board and apply what you have learned constructively. From the greatest suffering can emerge the strongest souls.

Have you heard of a Buddhist story about a woman whose son died and how the Buddha helped her? The story starts by describing how she was boorishly treated by the locals for being poor until she gave birth one day. After giving birth, she was seen in a different light - she had created life!

Then, one day, her son became ill and died. She became depressed and the locals blamed her because they thought she hadn't looked after him properly. There were talks of a charismatic wise man who had apparently become enlightened and news about his insightful speeches travelled fast. Someone had found the woman crying over her dead son and advised her to go and see the Buddha as he was delivering a speech not far from there.

She met the Buddha and asked him what he could do to bring back her son. Buddha told her to go back to her village and get grains of mustard from every house with a history of prosperity and where nobody had ever died. Once she had the seeds, she was to take them to the Buddha.

She knocked on every house and found that, in every single one of them, there was a history of death and suffering. She also found that people empathised with her for her loss. Thus, she returned to the Buddha empty-handed but with a deep understanding about the nature of reality. She had realised that the mission the Buddha set her was one of self-discovery.

The answer was NOT in fulfilling her desire to see her son somehow miraculously resuscitated. This is an attachment which leads to suffering. The answer was in ACCEPTANCE. All things in samsaric existence come to an end. Accept, let go, move on - these are the qualities of a free mind. No matter what happens, your mind is serene. It doesn't mean she loved her son any less...

She was also impressed by the subtlety in which the Buddha handled her situation. Rather than bluntly telling her to get over the fact that her son was dead, which would have added to her suffering, he simply nudged her in a direction which allowed her to make this discovery for herself.
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« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2011, 02:48:44 »

Poor guy! shocked

What if his parents were bastards who deserved their deaths (excuse my sense of humour grin)? In a way Maudgalyāyana was unknowingly carrying out what was due to them according to Karma and at the same time accumulating his own. People can say karma is a grump but really, what happens to them is a product of their doing - you reap what you sow.

If karma is real and extends beyond this life (past and present), it also depends a lot upon how you look at it. Whether good or bad happens, the experience can be educational. The events in your life can make you wiser if you take them on board and apply what you have learned constructively. From the greatest suffering can emerge the strongest souls.

What you say in the beginning, taken as a joke it's funny  grin

But any sane person who's in the right path will tell you that killing generates bad karma. This could lead to slightly complex situations, like killing an active murderer. You generate both bad and good karma. But I don't think it "evens out" so to speak. You still have to pay for what you did. And the thing about some of the karma you have accumulated is that it could take a long time to take effect.

It is said that the human realm is the best one for learning/growth. In the lower planes the suffering is almost (if not 100%) relentless, so it's extremely difficult to grasp a glimpse of the truth. In the higher realms, beings tend to be distracted by the sheer bliss they enjoy there. And most of them believe "This is it. I'm in heaven now, for all eternity." But once their good karma is exhausted, they get reborn in some inferior place (i.e., get back here). In the future they could end up in hell, and the cycle continues.

Suffering is everywhere, but always remember that you can rise above it. You can even transcend
physical pain, of course that takes a huge deal of experience regarding right concentration, but it's still possible. Pain is not required in order to learn/grow.

Have you heard of a Buddhist story about a woman whose son died and how the Buddha helped her? The story starts by describing how she was boorishly treated by the locals for being poor until she gave birth one day. After giving birth, she was seen in a different light - she had created life!

Then, one day, her son became ill and died. She became depressed and the locals blamed her because they thought she hadn't looked after him properly. There were talks of a charismatic wise man who had apparently become enlightened and news about his insightful speeches travelled fast. Someone had found the woman crying over her dead son and advised her to go and see the Buddha as he was delivering a speech not far from there.

She met the Buddha and asked him what he could do to bring back her son. Buddha told her to go back to her village and get grains of mustard from every house with a history of prosperity and where nobody had ever died. Once she had the seeds, she was to take them to the Buddha.

She knocked on every house and found that, in every single one of them, there was a history of death and suffering. She also found that people empathised with her for her loss. Thus, she returned to the Buddha empty-handed but with a deep understanding about the nature of reality. She had realised that the mission the Buddha set her was one of self-discovery.

The answer was NOT in fulfilling her desire to see her son somehow miraculously resuscitated. This is an attachment which leads to suffering. The answer was in ACCEPTANCE. All things in samsaric existence come to an end. Accept, let go, move on - these are the qualities of a free mind. No matter what happens, your mind is serene. It doesn't mean she loved her son any less...

She was also impressed by the subtlety in which the Buddha handled her situation. Rather than bluntly telling her to get over the fact that her son was dead, which would have added to her suffering, he simply nudged her in a direction which allowed her to make this discovery for herself.

Yeah, I knew that story and I love it. The Buddha always looked for the right way to teach each individual according to their own unique background.

In the end she still loved her son but she was no longer attached to him. She was free. It is said she was the first woman guided by Siddhartha to attain Nirvana.
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« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2011, 10:43:24 »

Cool! And this is the ultimate goal, isn't it? Nirvana...the cessation of being. You become free from this seemingly perpetual experience. Free from cyclical existence. It transcends everything. The radiant nothingness which is indestructible reality. You wipe the slate clean as you free yourself of all concepts - no attachments!! - pristine cognition...intrinsic awareness - a truly blissful state!

I'd imagine this is sort of like a deep sleep after having worked so hard, when you're "dead to the world" so to speak, a much deserved rest and it is kind of cool in a way. Freedom!!! Ahhhh... grin
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« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2011, 17:37:48 »

That's right. Nirvana is even beyond infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness, and neither-perception-nor-non-perception (the 4 highest realms).

It can't be expressed/described, only defined in a very simplistic manner by what it is and what's not.

"Nibbana names the transcendent and singularly ineffable freedom that stands as the final goal of all the Buddha's teachings."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca3/nibbana.html
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« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2011, 21:20:05 »

I like that fire analogy. Nice link. Nirvana is an attractive prospect for me. Some view it as a dreadful one because it is the cessation of being. I think it's truly brave to just let go and not worry where you'll end up. This is the highest form of liberation. Cool
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« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2011, 01:17:54 »

Yep. If you describe to someone your goal as the "cessation of being" they will think you're insane  grin

According to the Buddha, all beings have no real permanent self. Only 5 temporary constituents (form, feeling, perception, mental fabrications and consciousness) so rich and complex that they create a powerful illusion. It's amazing to notice he proposed this around 2500 years ago  grin

"An uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person [...] assumes form to be the self, or the self as possessing form, or form as in the self, or the self as in form.

He assumes feeling to be the self...

He assumes perception to be the self...

He assumes fabrications to be the self...

He assumes consciousness to be the self, or the self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in the self, or the self as in consciousness."
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« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2011, 10:31:27 »

A truly remarkable individual. The knowledge he passed on obviously came from the altered states he achieved in meditation.

There's something peculiar that I experienced once in the hypnagogic state and during one of my Phase entry attempts. I was laying in bed deeply relaxed when I saw the image of  strange room with nice furniture. I was looking at the furniture and I knew what it was. Then I somehow switched to not knowing, I looked at it and it was completely alien to me. Curiosity made me switch back to knowing again. This made me think about the pristine cognition talked about in Buddhism. There was also a kind of comfort and exhilaration in knowing that ultimately, we are empty and that, if we want, we can get rid of all concepts as though we are unloading weight off our backs.
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« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2011, 19:04:15 »

That sounded like a cool experiment.

By the way, is your avatar an entity you saw in the phase?
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« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2011, 23:39:05 »

My avatar? No. The theme for it was the trickster, the shape-shifting archetype that appears in dreams sometimes. It is only an interpretation of that concept. I did take some inspiration from the Joker's face (Jack nicholson), the Martians from Mars Attacks, that scary dude from Clockwork Orange and Bedeekin's mug. grin
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« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2011, 01:31:46 »

I see.

It does look like the Joker's grin, the martian's brain, and the eyes of Alex DeLarge.

Dunno what Bedeekin's mug looks like. Was he pleased with your depiction of it?  grin
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« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2011, 17:16:33 »

LOL! Bedeekin thought it looked like Smeagle. It is partially inspired by his face so he shouldn't take any offence. He probably thinks it's hilarious. I posted a picture of me in my wedding suit once and he said I was a dead ringer for Joe Pesci. It's all in good taste. I like Joe Pesci. grin
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« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2011, 01:50:22 »

LOL

That reminds me. Since you're a Metallica fan like me, you probably know the comedian Jim Breuer. He does a great impression of Joe Pesci  grin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljJoMKaLXrM
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« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2011, 00:10:26 »

I did see him do Lars and James! He was hilarious! LOL, I loved that impression of Joe Pesci. the nicholson one was good too! My wife likes goat boy!! cheesy
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« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2011, 01:49:44 »

Yeah, the guy is actually more famous for Goat Boy  grin
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« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2011, 21:06:44 »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwn5y3XNDIg&feature=related

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« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2011, 00:11:06 »

Ben Stiller  grin
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« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2011, 22:28:07 »

To keep it more to the topic, here are some videos I found. The third one includes David Fontana's input. It was in one of his books that I found the whole concept of "Summerland". The first one is sheldrake - he's brilliant! The mind is like a field extending beyond the physical body! Great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frJpThIims8&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mti3oWINgY0&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGV8aQxCsCI&feature=relmfu
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