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personalreality
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« on: February 01, 2010, 21:02:55 »

I've been at this AP/OBE/etc. work for about 6 months now.  I am practicing almost every day, any time I get a spare moment.  Every night I practice walking the line between awake and asleep.  Every morning that I don't have to be up for work or class I stay in bed and practice.  I have been filling my everyday awareness with OBE books, ebooks, websites, talking to people about it (I work in a metaphysical bookshop so this is normal work discussion), etc.  Each night I declare/intend to gain awareness during an OBE and that I AP easily.  I have started using the Gateway Experience again recently.  I do energy work every day (whether it is N.E.W. or other occult methods).  I even started doing yoga to help with relaxation (and I've never liked yoga).  I changed my diet (not really for AP, but one would think that it might help).  I started to keep a dream journal and a "book of shadows", yet I still barely ever remember any dreams which has always been a problem for me. 

I just don't know what to do anymore.  I have such a strong desire to achieve the OBE and other metaphysical type experiences, that I may very well explode someday soon.  Quitting is just out of the question for me.  But I am becoming restless and frustrated. 

Within the past couple weeks I've been adjusting my practice from the "techniques" given by Robert Bruce to some of the techniques used by Monroe and Frank (i.e. phasing).  In the past I have come "close" to successful conscious AP with 'Astral Dynamics'.  But every time I got "close" I would lose it because the physiological sensations were to strong.  I wouldn't intentionally back out, but my heart center would "beat" so fast that I couldn't ignore it no matter how much I tried, as was the case with my eyes which would flutter so furiously that they would "open" (physically or astrally I don't know, but it always broke my concentration on climbing the rope).  As all this was happening my muscles would tighten and draw all my attention to my body.

Lately with the Monroe/Frank type practice I have been able to maintain trance but I haven't gotten anywhere close to projection (as far as I can tell).  From what I understand, you don't have the same exit sensations through the phasing "method", but I'm not even getting to a point where a shift might happen.  I keep hearing about hypnagogic imagery and I'm familiar with the hypnagogic and the hypnapompic states but I've never experienced the imagery people keep referencing. 

I'm not going to stop trying, but I'm really getting a bit distressed over it all.  I feel like I've got all of these "abilities" bubbling up inside of me and I just can't find the cork to let it all out.  I've got all the knowledge, but the experience is missing.  I just can't seem to cross that line.

Thanks for letting me vent.

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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 21:15:11 »

Quote
But every time I got "close" I would lose it because the physiological sensations were to strong.  I wouldn't intentionally back out, but my heart center would "beat" so fast that I couldn't ignore it no matter how much I tried, as was the case with my eyes which would flutter so furiously that they would "open" (physically or astrally I don't know, but it always broke my concentration on climbing the rope).  As all this was happening my muscles would tighten and draw all my attention to my body.

These are good signs, I know the exact feelings your talking about. For myself, it was just about doing it over and over again. I would get really panicky and anxious and it would stop the whole process, and the next time I would try I would build up my confidence and tell myself to not panic, but I would anyways. After time it became less and less of a hindrance until it finally happened. I think it just takes a while to get used to non-physical sensations.

Don't let yourself get too restless & frustrated. That will hinder you even more. If it gets to be too much take a break from all of it for a week. You'll be surprised how refreshed you'll feel getting back into it. It should be a good-feeling, positive experience. Not one that makes you frustrated. Simple relaxation meditations can sometimes be enough, and save the good stuff for a Saturday or something.
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« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 21:15:11 »

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nickspry
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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2010, 22:57:35 »

It took me about six months of hard effort to achieve my first self-induced lucid dream so I know how frustrating it can be. It is possible to try too hard though, and sometimes easing up a bit can lead to a breakthrough.
If you're finding yourself automatically backing out of the experience because of fear, excitement or intensity of sensations, you should try some indirect methods in my opinion. Indirect methods are used used on waking up during the night, rather than when going to sleep. There's a site called OBE4U which gives a good description of these methods.
As a last resort, devices such as the NovaDreamer and supplements such as galantamine can sometimes provide the initial experience required to kickstart the process.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 23:08:08 by nickspry » Logged
vipassana
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« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 02:12:37 »

I'm having the exact same problem. I have managed to have some lucid dreams, but only 2 really significant ones. Other than that, not much. I usually wake up around 3:00 am to try and have an OBE, but I usually just end up relaxing myself back to sleep. I think I know what's holding me back though. I allow too much negative energy around me. I asked this question to some people on this board and they confirmed my suspicions. I have to figure out how to change that. 
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personalreality
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2010, 11:40:30 »

I'm having the exact same problem. I have managed to have some lucid dreams, but only 2 really significant ones. Other than that, not much. I usually wake up around 3:00 am to try and have an OBE, but I usually just end up relaxing myself back to sleep. I think I know what's holding me back though. I allow too much negative energy around me. I asked this question to some people on this board and they confirmed my suspicions. I have to figure out how to change that. 

I can help with that also.  Like I said, I work in a metaphysical bookshop so a lot of what I do during the day is help people deal with "negative energy problems".  Sometimes it come across as "bad luck", sometimes it manifests as "hauntings" (and I say haunting to mean a wide variety of things that have nothing to do with a genuine haunting, but that's what people call it when they come in), other times it presents as a blockage or difficulty with energy related issues.

There are a few easy things you can do.
1) Get a white sage wand or loose leaves and smudge your home, yourself, and especially the space where you do projection work.  Smudging is really easy to do, just get the sage, set it on fire and let the smoke go all through the places that you smudge.  I like to move the sage in a spiral/circle motion as I move it through my space, making sure to get smoke in every nook and cranny of the room.  You can also use just a couple of leaves to smudge yourself and help release any "negative energies" that you have in your energy system.

2) Carry some black crystals/gemstones with you.  You can also use some dark brown crystals, like Labradorite or it's higher resonance brother, Spectrolite.  My favorite protection stone is Black Tourmaline (Schorl), but you could also use Rainbow Obsidian, Black Onyx, Jet, Black Agate, or any other black crystal you find.  There are also a couple of stones that are helpful because of how they effect you and the type of energy your put around yourself.  Stones like Amethyst, Citrine, Kyanite, Amazonite, Lapis Lazuli, Celestite, Selenite, Rose Quartz, any other Quartz, etc. can all help you make sure you're not contributing to the negative energy and it can help you recognize and not attract negative energy.  These stones have unique metaphysical properties that I recommend looking up because you can get a lot more out of them than just protection. 

There is pretty good crystal information at these websites:

www.shimmerlings.com
http://spiritofisis.org/index_files/info_crystals.htm

There are also quite a few stones that can be helpful in Astral Projection/OBE work.  Their properties range from helping conscious projection to protection during projection to remembering the experience when you return.  There are also many that are associated with shamanic journeying (which I think is pretty close to Monroe's F10) and other types of "soul-journeying".  Some good AP stones are amethyst (put under your pillow while sleeping), Cavansite, Ulexite (really helps with visualization), Zebra Jasper, Bismuth (these are artificially grown in a lab which usually negates their metaphysical properties, but this is one of the few stones that is still considered to be useful after it's been altered, other examples are things like Aqua Aura Quartz or Siberian Blue Quartz), Merlinite (sometimes called dendrite opal, though there is no opal in it), and one of my favorites Mochi Balls/Boji Stones/Shaman's Stones.  You can also use stones for psychic development like Lapis Lazuli, Larimar, Azurite, Shattuckite, Chrysocolla, etc. (you may notice a theme here if you see these stones, they're all blue/violet which associates them with the 3rd eye).  And since I have mentioned the 3rd Eye, which is discussed here a lot, as long as you learn the color associations of the chakras you can find crystals that are attuned to the chakras.  Stones of the same color can help energize and clear Chakras.

Before I move on to the last points, I want to say that my favorite stone is Kyanite and for good reason.  Kyanite can cleanse and align all Chakras and Subtle Bodies (Energy Centers and Energy Bodies) with no conscious direction.  It can also energize and release blockages with some conscious direction.  I bring it up because when you combine it with the N.E.W. energy work it really enhances that practice.  Using the Kyanite as my "awareness finger" for some of my exercises has really heightened my sensitivity to subtle energies.  It is also one of only a few self-cleansing stones, only it takes negative energy and transmutes it to "positive" energy.  (and when I say +/- energy I mean that in a subjective sense.  scientifically it's often positively charged things that are harmful, like positively charged ions produced by electronic equipment)

3) Practice surrounding yourself with "white light" regularly.  Just visualize being surrounded by white light.  Even Monroe uses the exercise.  But beyond just yourself you can use that white light to protect your home and other people.  You can do larger areas by visualizing a beam of white light coming out of your finger and tracing a boundary around your space.

I want to clarify that when I talk about these negative energies, I don't just mean harmful "spirits" or something.  While that can be a legitimate concern, particularly "Astral Hangers-On" or Astral Wildlife/Elementals that latch on to your energy and feed off it (which isn't particularly dangerous, but can be annoying over time, I don't want people to fear these things because you generally have more power), that's not all I'm talking about.  I also just mean negative influences, like naysayers or people who make fun of you or put you down for the beliefs/practices you have.  Often these people are in our lives because somewhere deep inside we feel the same way and we have attracted these types of people to ourselves.  Our environment is a mirror that reflects our shadows (shadow-self; relevant to psychology) back to us. 

4) That said, there are types of shamanic journeying and other subconscious work you can do to release these shadow beliefs.  I recommend a book called "Healing the Shadow" by Ross Bishop and The Gateway Experience Hemi-Sync set from the Monroe Institue because one of the biggest parts of the set is learning how to heal and charge yourself energetically and make positive changes in your life.


I have to go to class now, but I'm thinking about making more comprehensive list of things you can do to protect/heal yourself soon so keep your eyes open.

Rusty
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vipassana
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2010, 01:45:42 »

Often these people are in our lives because somewhere deep inside we feel the same way and we have attracted these types of people to ourselves.  Our environment is a mirror that reflects our shadows (shadow-self; relevant to psychology) back to us. 

4) That said, there are types of shamanic journeying and other subconscious work you can do to release these shadow beliefs.  I recommend a book called "Healing the Shadow" by Ross Bishop and The Gateway Experience Hemi-Sync set from the Monroe Institue because one of the biggest parts of the set is learning how to heal and charge yourself energetically and make positive changes in your life.


Thanks Rusty! The part I quoted is my problem. I let the events of the world get to me. It's not so much the people around me as it is negative enery in general. It's everywhere. I would have to shut myself off from the world and focus on myself. Therein lies the challenge. The reason I think there is so much negative enery is because people have for the most part only focused on themselves. They have become apathetic to the world around them. A lot of what I read sounds like conspiracy theory to me, especially about the government knowing about 2012 and the such. But what if these people really did have bad intentions? Do we just ignore it? What if 2012 is just a bunch of BS? So we think the heck with it, in 2012 it won't matter anymore? And then nothing happens. Nothing happening would be the worst possible outcome in my opinion. I guess the best way to fight it is to stay positive.
I have the hemi-sync recordings but I haven't found them useful so far. Maybe I need to give them another try. I also need to find out more about the crystals you mention. I appreciate your post. I'm going to look into this more.
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personalreality
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2010, 15:22:56 »

It's interesting that you mention 2012.  I'm actually in the process of writing a short book to sell at my store that touches on the concept slightly.  Not so much on what, if anything, will happen.  Kind of the opposite really and you hit the nail on the head.  It's just not practical to quit and wait for something to happen.  And we can't learn about our realities from anyone else, it has to be a subjective exploration.  We can't just stop and think that the universe will just bump us up evolutionarily. 

Some of the information you see in "conspiracy theories" isn't necessarily too far off.  These days I just call it conspiracy research.  Conspiracy theory is equated with crack-pots and cult leaders, but the idea of conspiracy is still entirely legitimate.  It's simply the planning and orchestrating of some action that defies common welfare or the prevalent power structure.  Some of the more extreme stuff aside, the basic concept behind much of modern conspiracy research is that we (the masses) have been programmed/conditioned/brainwashed to deny our spiritual heritage in favor of futile mundane lifestyles.  There are some "theories" as to who's doing it and why.  Like David Icke says the perpetrators are interdimensional-extraterrestrial beings that manifest as reptilians and they feed off of heavy/thick vibrational energy that we experience as "negative" emotions (fear being the biggest).  Someone like Alex Jones, who is mostly just concerned with the material side of things, will acknowledge that the perpetrators believe they are a part of some "satanic cult" that has signed a dark contract with ol' Beelzebub himself.  But Alex Jones seems to think they're whack jobs because of it.  But the common thread amongst all of these conspiracy researchers is that we are being controlled and manipulated in such a way as to inhibit our true power.  Which brings us back around to Astral Projection because it is part of that power, the ability to perceive our total existence.  This is why kids are taught in school that imagination just isn't real and in order to be "cool" (or a productive member of society) they must abandon their natural magick and conform. 

In regards to 2012, it seems to me that whatever may or may not happen will be our doing.  I mean that we will create that reality, we are creating that reality.  There may indeed be some force that is giving us a push but it ultimately up to us how we use it.  My only real reason for believing that there is some force pushing us is because there seems to be some kind of catalyst that is bringing out our old wounds and making us deal with them on an individual and mass level.  The shadow self that I was talking about is being poked and woken up so that we will all have to face it.  What will decide our "fate" is how we handle that shadow. It seems to me that we're not handling it so well.  Our entire reality is one great big reflection of our mass shadow and the world doesn't really show much peace and harmony with the rest of existence.  However, it is necessary that we experience this.  Otherwise we wouldn't.  If we were already complete we wouldn't be here.  If there were some mass conspiracy that treated us a cattle to be prodded then it would make sense that the way they would cope with an impending opportunity for spiritual evolution would be to force us to confront our shadow selves (collective and individual) at a pace that is too fast for us to handle, thereby causing a break in our collective psyche which would (technically by our own doing) put a halt to any evolution.  But, humans are also very powerful beings and our true will may surprise us all.

And, whatever the cause, we truly do seem to be experiencing a very large confrontation with our shadow selves.  In regards to your situation, your reality is a reflection of your inner reality and in my opinion they are one and the same reality.  The inner part is the real substance and the outer side is just a projection, like the movie being projected on the screen by the film projector.  The film (your inner reality) is where the real substance is, the projector (you) acts as the experiencing middle man, and the movie (outer reality) is just a picture.  To change the picture, you have to change the film. 
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2010, 17:20:11 »

In my experience when i first started about four months ago I just read and read about AP for knowledge only, I was actually afraid so I was not really pursuing an OBE or AP, then after reading Robert Monroe's books, reading threads here in the forum and other online sites things just started happening, I have had a couple of conscious OBE's, some phasings and some lucid dreams.

now i have actively started to have phasings instead of OBE's using the method Frank Keppler describes and it has given me results.

In my non-expert opinion I think you're putting too much pressure on yourself and that may be blocking you for achieving an OBE.
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personalreality
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2010, 18:30:02 »

In my non-expert opinion I think you're putting too much pressure on yourself and that may be blocking you for achieving an OBE.

That's slightly true.  I have acknowledged that I was "trying too hard" and that has inhibited me in the past.  And I'm not trying to dispute that possibility now, it's just that the experience is different this time around.  I don't feel like I am pushing myself to achieve OBEs, I feel like I am being pushed by something else.  And it's not just AP and other types of projection, but all kinds of metaphysical abilities.  I've been studying this stuff for a long time and I have been practicing different types of psychic/AP experience for a long time.  But it's never felt like it does now, and by that I mean that it literally feels like I'm going to explode into this psychic experience that will be massively overwhelming.  For some reason I can't release this build-up.  I really do want to successfully have OBEs and exercise my psychic muscles, but lately it hasn't felt like something I want to do, but rather something I have to do.  It's a difficult experience to explain.

I've never been disciplined about anything in my life, but over the past month and a half I have practiced AP every single day.  I practice every night when I go to bed (but who wouldn't it's a great time when you don't have much available free time) and I usually find at least 2 hours a day that I can sit/lay down and practice.  I'm really not exaggerating when I say this either.  It's the strangest thing.  I think i was more determined to AP 2 years ago but I didn't practice like this.  I really feel like someone else takes over my body as soon as I've got enough time to practice. 

It's just weird.
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 22:12:49 »

That's slightly true.  I have acknowledged that I was "trying too hard" and that has inhibited me in the past.  And I'm not trying to dispute that possibility now, it's just that the experience is different this time around.  I don't feel like I am pushing myself to achieve OBEs, I feel like I am being pushed by something else.  And it's not just AP and other types of projection, but all kinds of metaphysical abilities.  I've been studying this stuff for a long time and I have been practicing different types of psychic/AP experience for a long time.  But it's never felt like it does now, and by that I mean that it literally feels like I'm going to explode into this psychic experience that will be massively overwhelming.  For some reason I can't release this build-up.  I really do want to successfully have OBEs and exercise my psychic muscles, but lately it hasn't felt like something I want to do, but rather something I have to do.  It's a difficult experience to explain.

I've never been disciplined about anything in my life, but over the past month and a half I have practiced AP every single day.  I practice every night when I go to bed (but who wouldn't it's a great time when you don't have much available free time) and I usually find at least 2 hours a day that I can sit/lay down and practice.  I'm really not exaggerating when I say this either.  It's the strangest thing.  I think i was more determined to AP 2 years ago but I didn't practice like this.  I really feel like someone else takes over my body as soon as I've got enough time to practice. 

It's just weird.

I'm in the exact situation.I have been trying so hard in the past 6 months and so far haven't met my expectations.It's like I'm forbiden, stopped, blocked to enter this incredible realm of AP.
You know when something actually hapened?Being very disapointed by myself, I tried te ultimate and the hardest method:sleep deprivation.I stayed awake for 2 days.It was hard, punishing for my body and mental and I would ask myself:"Does it worth it?"Seconds after I got in my bed to finally go asleep I was in vibrations.It was strange but my mind was clear but my body very tired/I started having incredible spinning motions and after a while I just literally feel on the floor.I was blind but I could realize I was finally out.I mumbled a while in the darknesss(pitch black, couldn't even sence any light) then suddendly I was back in my bed.
That's the onlly true experience I ever had.Other than that, it's just vibrations, sometimes sleep paralysis, but they don't burst into an OBE.It's like a continuos taunt, showing me that "AP is a real thing but you can't have it"
I'm sick of ap books, tired of them and I just deleted all the 20 books about ap I had.
I know about relaxing, vizualizations, affirmations, etc. but for me it feels like a forbiden fruit, it's there but I can't touch it.And I really wonder why.Some can do it every day,others like me can't.
I even wondered if I was trying to hard.For a month I stopped reading everything about it and only practice it 3-4 times a week.The results are horible, I can't even reach vibrations, when in the past it would happen at least once a week.
I'm not even upset anymore, my atitude is like"Wathever, it's not for me".Like you, I was never diciplined in anything till this obe practice and I have to admit it was the first thing I trully did with passion and devoument
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 03:06:07 »

OK. We all seem to be on the same page here. My first lucid dream came after being frustrated over going nowhere with this and just having a general all around bad week. I remember driving home from work thinking to myself "this AP stuff is just a bunch of garbage. True reality is me having to get up every morning and work 10 hours/day 5 days a week and try to have a life on the weekends." Then that night it happened. After that, there was no denying it was real. I mean to think that I was as conscious as I am now sitting here typing this but actually manipulating the reality around me and flying around where ever I wanted to go. It was amazing. I also feel like I am forbidden from actually APing and the lucid dreams were meant as a teaser so to speak. Just enough to let me know there is more. So now I can't get it off my mind. I think about it all the time. It's like the time is not right for me to do this though. But now I can't get enough if this metaphysical stuff. If something does happen in 2012, I feel like I will be able to tell people exactly what is going on and what to expect. I think you have to very carefully weed out the BS to figure out who is being sincere. I take everything with a grain of salt, but there are just some things that cannot be explained. Last night I came across a post on this board where someone posted a link to a You Tube video about the Norwegian spiral light. I don't know if you know about this, but it was one of those HOLY CRAP moments for me. I'll let you make your own judgments about it, but I'm not buying the conventional explanations. And I'm by no means into conspiracy theories. I don't think people, including those in the government, could cover up UFOs and such. I think they are just as clueless as everyone else.
Regarding my negative energy problem, I may be going out on a limb here, but I think I can pick up on negative energy even when there appears to not be any overtly showing itself. I can sense it in a strange way. This is a rather new phenomenon that started occurring to me about a year or so ago. I was dealing with an employee who was having an emotional outburst (she has an anxiety disorder among other things) and I felt her negative emotions engulf me. I really do not know how to describe it. It wasn't like an adrenalin rush or anything, but just this sensation I can't describe. Ever since then, I have become more aware of this feeling when I am around people. Maybe it's nothing, I don't know for sure. It's not something I can really compare to anything, so I have nothing to judge it against.
Anyway, there is no blowing off my few experiences and everything I have learned at this point. Two or three years ago, I never would have been into this spiritual stuff. For some reason I was drawn to it. I read a book about Edgar Cayce and all of the sudden I felt like all my suspicions were confirmed. Ever since then I have been on a non-stop quest to learn as much as I can. That in itself makes me wonder what’s going on.
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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 03:35:17 »

There is a technique I have been using for quite some time to help me with negative people / emotions. If you must deal with the individual personally (i.e. at work) then you can create a shield around your energy body. This shield can act as a mirror. All negative thoughts / emotions aimed at you can be re-directed somewhere else. You can send them back to the individual but that may not be good or you can send them to a place far away.

I have used this technique when working in groups and some of the members will get frustrated with each other. I then create the 'mirror' shield around both of them and within a couple of minutes they will be laughing and having a good time.  cheesy
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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 23:53:27 »

There is a technique I have been using for quite some time to help me with negative people / emotions. If you must deal with the individual personally (i.e. at work) then you can create a shield around your energy body. This shield can act as a mirror. All negative thoughts / emotions aimed at you can be re-directed somewhere else. You can send them back to the individual but that may not be good or you can send them to a place far away.

I have used this technique when working in groups and some of the members will get frustrated with each other. I then create the 'mirror' shield around both of them and within a couple of minutes they will be laughing and having a good time.  cheesy

I do that too!

I also put a feng shui mirror on my front door (convex) to reflect whatever my neighbors bring around my house.  I also keep hematite under my door mat and under the floor mat in my car to neutralize any kind of negative emotions/energies that I may have inadvertently picked up during the day
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« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2010, 23:59:04 »

I have been putting up 10ft - 20ft spheres of energy in each of my rooms that repel / convert negative energy / emotions. Anytime people think about me in a bad way I get more energy! cheesy
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2010, 05:48:24 »

I've been at this astral projection since last August. I've been trying at night, like during my first time. But it ain't working for me so I'll try in the mornings.
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2010, 20:51:50 »

Eyyoshi I got out the other day for the first time and I just put up a post on how I did it.
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2010, 03:57:24 »

I just spent the past several hours exploring what Frank Kepple has written in the past on this forum. What he says makes a lot of sense to me. I'm going to have to try this "phasing" method. I keep feeling like I'm going at this all wrong. Maybe this is the ticket?
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2010, 08:02:55 »

Six months is not really a long enough time to get desperate. Please don't get disheartened. Also stop wanting it so much because it creates stress. Know that you are slowly but surely moving toward your goal. I wish you all the best.
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personalreality
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2010, 19:40:21 »

I appreciate your well wishing, but you're a little late.  I was successful last week.  I have had some success replicating (about 2 times), but I've been having trouble over the weekend. 

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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2010, 19:16:11 »

It begins with remembering, as you remember after, you will begin to remember while it occurs. Becoming conscious while it happens
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