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Author Topic: Its hard to let others know that individuals don't die after death  (Read 16352 times)
Jude101
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« on: January 26, 2014, 19:30:10 »

\ Always thinking, if only they knew... Do you guys ever encounter such instances?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 04:34:45 by Jude101 » Logged

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CFTraveler
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 01:06:14 »

Have you had loved ones or acquaintances of love ones pass on. Knowing in your heart that there is no real death, not from what you hear but based on what you have experience. Wishing that you could let the other people around you felling the trauma and pain from torturing themselves. Well I just recently found out that a friend of mine's had some one close to here pass away. She seem so sad and all I wanted to do is explain to here that she was not actually dead. Sometimes I find it so hard to keep my perception quiet from others. Many think that some one as young as me would have no perception in what happens after death, so most times I tend to just stay quiet. Always thinking, if only they knew... Do you guys ever encounter such instances?
Here's the thing- you cannot tell someone else that your truth is the truth.  Also, when you tell them that they shouldn't feel sad because of their loss (perceived or real) you are telling them (not in those words, but effectively) that their feelings of loss and grief are not real- but they are real, regardless of their foundation.  The thing is, that as you said, your perception is your perception.  Only their experience can tell them there is no death (or rather, that death is only another stage of being), and this is going to have to happen in their own time.
I know you mean well, or rather, I hope so, but sometimes substituting others' beliefs for yours don't work for others.
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 01:06:14 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Szaxx
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 05:33:11 »

It's hard enough trying to be convinced yourself at times. Others have their minds made up already and exist by their rules. If they have no remorse or consideration for others in their actions, any extra life will be rejected outright. Mostly due to religious indoctrination, they fear an existance beyond this physical life. A typical question after their boxed in banter is " Prove it?"
When you then tell them something that's going to happen you get laughed at with more banter. Once the event occurs you get strangely avoided.
The fingers in the ear whilst shouting seems to be a typical response. This is very true of certain authorities, they DON'T BELIEVE as it's impossible due to some paperwork not specifing its existance.
The only thing left is to talk to those who bring it up in conversation. The rest seem to be somewhat mindless with their big sticks issuing a large fire at the end, shouting witch or similar...
 grin
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 17:29:51 »

Quote
they DON'T BELIEVE as it's impossible due to some paperwork not specifing its existence.
This made me lol.  So true.
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Astralzombie
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 19:16:21 »

I completely agree with CFT but I also share a similar sentiment with Jude. It is just so painful to see people in mourning and it's a very natural thing to want to comfort them with our personal beliefs but this can easily backfire on us. cry

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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2014, 19:16:21 »



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Szaxx
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 20:45:31 »

Agreed AZ.
The problem, when you feel their emotions and dare not say a word.
You really want to help the person suffering and don't know how they'd react if you said "Dont be sad ..." or similar.
It's one of those aaaaaaagggh moments.
Frustration in a nutshell, you know, they don't and aaaaaghh.
 I hate that sadness feeling.
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Lionheart
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 23:08:44 »

 There's a time for action and a time for silence. You have to figure out what time it is at that particular moment!  wink
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seapony
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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2014, 21:31:02 »

So true Lionheart....

Whats that saying ?

The true art of conversation is not just to say the right
thing at the right time, but to avoid saying the wrong thing at the
tempting moment ....   

I find it hard to not say anything sometimes...but one has to let people
work through things at their own pace.
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2014, 17:45:02 »

There's a time for action and a time for silence. You have to figure out what time it is at that particular moment!  wink
That's true and I want to comment on something I saw in the recent posts since I participated in this thread.  (*deep breath*)
When people grieve they do for many reasons- that have to do with the relationship with the newly deceased.  Mourning is a necessary outflow of emotion, because, whether there is life after death or not, the type of relationship they used to have with the deceased is over- there may or may not be a different type of relationship after that- they may dream about them, even (if they're lucky) see them in visions in awake time- but they can never hug them again or tell them they love them and know for a fact that they are 'there' to know what they're telling them.
Yes, there is the belief (that I daresay I buy into) that the person may live in a 'bardo' state (with a different type of consciousness) and then either reincarnate or go to a 'heaven'- and we can even have experiences that we go visit them.  But the relationship that we had as incarnate has been changed so fundamentally that it can be said that it has ended, because change has happened to the two parties.
So yes, grief is heart-wrenching, but the pain they feel is real and necessary for them to move on with whatever they're supposed to do here (if anything), and to assume it's some sort of 'unnecessary suffering is very naive.
So make sure that when you console a person who is going through the grief of loss, don't project to them the idea that their emotions are somehow invalid because their concept of life and death are different than yours- that is not really being kind, it's being controlling.
-end of rant and I'm catching my breath.

On a personal note, the times I have interacted with my parents and grandparents have been great, but they don't erase the fact that I can't pick up the phone and talk to them with the immediacy I used to have, and that is real.
--
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jessicalynncp
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2014, 09:23:49 »


I think people need to gauge someones beliefs before they offer peronsal opinion, especialyl when someone is grieving.

I had three people tell me my dads time was up (he was killed in a freak accident) and I wanted to strangle them. One went as far as to say how dare I think otherwise. I'm glad I don't see that aunty very often.

My dad despised his job and he was spiralling down and couldn't afford to quit, and he wanted out for years. My belief is that if you want something bad enough but you don't specifiy conditions the universe will deliver, so instead of him being fired he was taken out. Manifestation if you will. This isn't my concept of everyone's death but anyone who tells you their opinion and refuses to hear another isn't worth talking to at all and for a while I was sad I never got to say that to them, to atleast open their eyes to other possibilities.

There are also tactful ways you can express yourself without harm and it takes trial and error and also a decent grip on social awareness, I have almost eliminated all arguments with my sister by expressing myself differently.
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Xanth
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2014, 19:49:57 »

Some people want to help by giving advice.  Some people are also just incredibly bad at it.  smiley

Perhaps your aunty meant well, she just doesn't inderstand how *YOU* see things. 
That's really the point, you have to allow people to be as they are and not push or force a viewpoint onto them.  This is as much of people interacting with you as you interacting with them. 
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2014, 03:34:18 »

You might as well just tell someone what you know. If they believe you, good. If they don't, oh well.
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Rakkso
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2014, 07:02:08 »

I've found this to be "relatively easier" if you aproach this claims through the ways of science.
i.e.: explain a bit of quatum physics with easy analogies, multiverse theory as the most widely accepted by scientists, life after death Exists, period.
They will ask why are you so sure. Then you just raise more of their curiosity, but tell them nothing they dont ask for.
Just raise a bit of curiosity in them, if they dont ask by themselves, they are not ready.
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Bluefirephoenix
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 12:54:11 »

Grief is a normal reaction even when a strong belief in the afterlife is present. Some people get stuck in a certain stage of grief after a loss and don't progress. Denying the afterlife may in someones mind simplify life and make it easier to cope with and it also may be related to one or more stages of grief that the person is stalled on. You cannot force the person to progress past the stage. It's a developmental issue and like trying to ask a 5 year old to do algebra. Kindly listening and loving support  while maintaining your bounderies so the person who is stuck feels safe and loved is the most effective approach.

Belief helps the coping ability but it doesn't stop grief from occuring. 
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techwulf
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2014, 12:08:39 »

I thought I might enter into this conversation to give a different angle. You see I am one of the such people who doesn't believe there is some sort of afterlife, but that doesn't mean I rule out the possibility. I honestly want to life forever, I guess I would call myself a trans-humanist. If I passed away and happened upon some form of an afterlife, I would be absolutely overjoyed. Every moment of existing is something to be cherished. When someone I know passes away, I grieve, and let time be the healer of wounds.

I guess my idea or hope is that if time travel was possible. The people of the future would have the ability, and desire to reach back, and save everyone. I suppose that is my current hope for something that could be after death. But as of now, I don't feel that anything that I have read or researched has been convincing enough to convince me there is life after death. So I will remain anxious for the advancement of technology in prolonging life.
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Szaxx
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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2014, 14:24:08 »

Technology can only extend life.
There's far more involved in this than you know.
Consider reincarnation, you can return again.
Consider the future being able to fix the past by saving everyone. They may save someone who kills them before they saved everyone.
A corrupt timeline?

Learn the art and you'll not change a thing, you'll only want to make others aware of their decisions.
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techwulf
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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2014, 21:35:52 »

Technology can only extend life.
Currently this is the case, but as technology advances at the perpetual rate at which it is increasing. I see no reason to believe that it couldn't maintain existence for at least as long as the universe is around, and can sustain the technology.
There's far more involved in this than you know.
We are in agreement here, there are many things I don't understand. Else why would I be here investigating an area in which I highly disagree and lack understanding. To learn as much as I possibly can.
Consider reincarnation, you can return again.
Perhaps one can reincarnate in another life. The only problem I have with this is that I wouldn't want the memories of who I am now to fade more than they do, or even become near non-existent. I feel like the idea of reincarnation is letting go of a large chunk of who I am, as in the progression of events that have led up to the person typing this message at this moment.
Consider the future being able to fix the past by saving everyone. They may save someone who kills them before they saved everyone.
A corrupt timeline?
There is many different ways of looking at time travel. I think the reason we haven't seen any time travellers is because its not possible. I think paradoxes are impossible, and if time looped then paradoxes would be a reality. Unless when something or someone went back into time, they simply formed a parallel time line. So for example the Grandpa paradox that everyone likes to bring up. If you went back and say killed your grandpa before he had a chance to ever have your father, than you wouldn't disappear. You would simply be existing in a time line where you would never be born.

Also I don't think people truly take the butterfly effect into full account. You could probably go back in time a year before you were born, wave your hands in the air, and that would likely be more than enough to prevent you from being born. If you didn't keep a connection to the time line with which you came from, you wouldn't be able to get back to it. It would become unreachable.

When I say go back and save someone, I was thinking more of in the sense of right when the person passed away. In the nearish future, we will have the ability to have computers that can scan and simulate all of the functions of the human brain. So to save someone, just simply go back scan their brain, then upload them into the future. After that simply let them decide what they want to do from there.
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Blue Glitter Neon
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2014, 00:46:08 »

I'd rather believe in an afterlife sooner than transhumanism. Never seen a theory so full of gaping holes as that. Strong AI? Uploading your consciousness? Come on, it's not possible. It never will be possible. And long before it would be possible, the world is going to run out of fossil fuels, artificial fertilizer, fresh water, everything.

"Rapture of the nerds", indeed.  wink

And just imagine it. Say it would be possible to upload your mind and exist forever in some computer simulation, or worse still, live on in this horrible world forever. And all the while there are incredible paradises just laying in wait around the corner if you only tune in your consciousness to their vibration. But you are never permitted to go there cause you're stuck being hooked up in a virtual reality machine on the physical plane...
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Szaxx
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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2014, 06:23:51 »

Good replies, think bigger though.
Techwulf, you are thinking from a physical viewpoint. It looks ad if you have assumed this physical reality is the central hub of existance. It isn't by default, if you can reincarnate it then becomes apparent that it's a cyclic event. The returning to the physical without any previous incarnate memories shouts out that its this physical existance that's the trip away from home. Different address, different people, different lifestyle. Sll things condidered, it may be an experiential learning zone.
If we assume the above from the basics we know, staying alive forever would be one serious mistake in our overall development.

Given many thousands of experiences in the NP, you'd be looking in the general direction of the source. That's one tough cookie to even attempt to comprehend. It's everything in no time and it's way above our primitive minds capabilities to readon with. Still, there's ways around everything and getting familiar with the NP communication methods is an absolute must.
You then start to see the difference of what we term physical life is all about. It's extremism in it's limitations and so slow paced it's almost frustrating. We are here though and it's my guess through choice or perhaps necessity.
A video game where you explore requires a few games to complete. One game will NOT do.
Welcome to life. cheesy
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EscapeVelocity
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« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2014, 06:36:45 »

This is such a good post no amount of money can pay for...

Thank you Szaxx.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 06:53:56 by EscapeVelocity » Logged

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dreamingod
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2014, 15:02:13 »

There are a few videos available which attempt to explain that you - consciousness, the omnipresent creative intelligence
continues to exist in another reality frame/paradigm/context, usually corresponding to the soul's belief systems, comfort zone and awareness level.

Zia Films Dearly Departed (Trailer)
Dearly Departed is a fictional documentary composed of documentary-style interviews with "dead people"
in the spirit realm to get their take on life after death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8phJCRDU_g

Cloud Atlas

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_news_and_media/cloud_atlas_trailer-t38308.0.html

Tom Campbell: What Happens After We Die?
Thomas Campbell, physicist, and author of My Big TOE, and consciousness expert,
explains the transitioning process after death, from his own knowledge of the spiritual realms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXSHl78vFpM


Alternatively, you can encourage them to play RPG games like "Second Life" and ask them to relate
their experiences of multiplayer virtual online gaming
as an analogy to what may happen after one departs from this current Earth RPG game Wink
http://secondlife.com/




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« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 15:45:28 by dreamingod » Logged

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