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Author Topic: Frank Kepple- Astral Projection Truth Newsletter  (Read 11193 times)
Pauli2
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« on: November 30, 2010, 06:34:03 »

Edit: I corrected typo.

(Below I give a grade from 0 - 10, 10 being the best/highest.)

The Newsletters of Frank are on the Internet.

Having read and re-read several of Frank J Kepple's various threads,
answers and Newsletters, Frank has become a riddle to me, an enigma.
There are certain things I can't fit into place.

So re-reading some of Frank's posts, and this time using my critical
"Book's Review" eye, I hoped to find something.

And now I have a theory.


But let's start with the reviews.

I will be a little more lengthy on the subject of Frank's writings
compared to my other reviews, as I think Frank's documents need
some questioning.

The Frank Newsletters are not any lengthy documents, and grades given by me
on each Newsletter Issues should be seen in the light of their shortness
compared to an ordinary book. You can put much more interesting
info into a lengthy book.




Astral Projection Truth Newsletter, Issue 1-4: 2005, Frank J Kepple

GRADE: 6.0

For all four Newsletters in combination I give them a grade of 6.0

See individual issue reviews below.




Astral Projection Truth Newsletter, Issue 1: 21/May/2005, Frank J Kepple

GRADE: 4.0

Frank starts this document with stating that he is about to set up a
Virtual Classroom for more serious-minded people.

He then introduces his concept; Wider Reality. Frank has an idea that in the
near future there will be devices to help people enter the Wider Reality, but
he gives no clues how to do this and I feel that he is just a little to
optimistic on this point. He could have given us some idea on how this
device would work, if at all.

Then there is something disturbing with the way Frank has written this
document (and also the other Newsletters).

Through out his document, Frank again and again attacks something
very ill-defined, which he labels "mystics" or "mysticism". I am having a hard
time just accepting his criticism as it often is so all-encompassing and
unspecific. Frank does very little to explain exactly what he means
with those two concepts, which repeatedly becomes targets.

I don't get it. Why is Frank attacking "mystics" and "mysticism" and
who on Earth are these "mystics" and what is he defining as "mysticism"?
Frank leaves the reader with very little concrete definitions, which lowers
the grade for this document.

Frank talks for example about dropping all the "mystical attachment" connected
to the Wider Reality. He also states that if the Wider Reality is
described in simple terms people would not need to believe in "mystics".

At some points it seems that Frank's criticism of "mystics" are directed
against religions, but reading further down his document it seems to be
a more general criticism of "all" mystics.

This kind of criticism is so vague and fuzzy. It doesn't give the reader any
new info and also lacks some kind of constructivity.

Frank uses so much text to fend of these "mystics" that his document become
burdened, specially when he states that he will unsubscribe people that
are too critical against him. I don't like that tone of Frank.

And I see his mystics-criticism as an alarm clock.

Nevertheless, a few books seem to be accepted by Frank, among others
the book "Seth Speaks", perhaps because it contains a concept called the
FrameWorks of Consciousness, which is divided into 4 areas.

Frank mentions his upcoming book, which he will make into 2 or 3 parts.
Frank requests feedback from people, which he intend to incorporate
in up-issues of his book, as it will become an eBook.

I must say that this eBook intention of Frank is the most positive, he
wants to update the eBook as people encounters new problems, which he himself
has not experienced before. The solution by Frank will then be inserted in
the next updated on-line version of his eBook. The pricing of the book
also seems very modest.

Then something seems to bother Frank, as he lacks confidence in that
people would believe in him even on the more "explainable aspects" of his
astral experiences! I think that statement of Frank is a little strange,
as he actually is writing to a group of believers.

Now Frank say his famous statement; there is no such thing as "out" of body,
because we are never "in" our bodies.

Hmmm...

I've read Frank's famous statement before. So, what kind of experience does
Frank base his assumption on "in" and "out"? I read and read, but on this very
important point Frank gives me nothing. I'm not a blind believer, he has
to put some kind of background into context. Give me something. A clue
to how he reached his "in" & "out" view. Please, give me food!

This lack of background is perhaps the single most weak point of Frank's
writings. He gives so few descriptions of his experiences which have
formed the basis for his world view; the Wider Reality.

Without descriptions of basic experiences, I again lower the grade of this
document.

Frank plainly states that on APing, you are going WITHIN you.

Please Frank, couldn't you have explained why there is no OUTSIDE of me?

I can see space. I can measure space. I can travel in space. I can
watch from one point in space to another point. Please Frank, you
could have helped this document of yours a lot if you just had
explained what it is that is not "outside".

The lack of explanation is a burden to this document.

Frank goes on with statements on "subjective energy" and "objective reality".
"Objective reality" shall be seen as an "objective translation" of
underlying "subjective action".

His document has at this stage become unclear to me, even if the other
Newsletter provides more explanation.

Frank also doesn't think that there exists a real-time-zone (RTZ),
because he objects to the concept of "real" time and the RTZ is not a "zone".

Surprisingly Frank does very little relaxation before phasing, and he
recommends people reading his FAQ about "Noticing", on the AP forum,
which is quite a gem. At the same time Frank is slightly degrading
towards other methods for doing OBE, calling them "laughable".

Frank denies the existence of astral travel as he thinks we already exist
through all of his 4 Focuses oC. The problem is again that Frank
delivers very little in terms of his own basic experiences to verify
his no-travel-claim.

Frank writes that people doesn't walk around in the astral, they just
walk around in their own minds. Frank needs to provide something more
substantial to make me believe that. How do these minds interact?

And again... Frank takes more hits on the mystics and their "tosh", "blurb"
and "bunkum". Frank claims to know the truth and he also claims that
the "mystics" don't know this truth.

At the end he mentions two different concepts called
"your perception in consciousness" and "your area of consciousness"
and promise to return to these two concepts in a later Newsletter.

To summarize things, in this document Frank gives parts of his theory on
the Wider Reality. He gives little in terms of methods to do phasing.
He uses a lot of words to fend of "mystics" and he offers very little
of his own experiences to support his claims about the Wider Reality.

And something he wrote started my mental alarm.




Astral Projection Truth Newsletter, Issue 2: 15/June/2005, Frank J Kepple

GRADE: 3.0

This document starts with info about Frank's Virtual Classroom and
how he will be helped by a friend regarding PayPal issues.

(I wonder if anyone has managed to get in contact with this friend
of Frank, to find out about Franks whereabouts?)

Frank again attacks the "mystics" and their "tosh", partly from an
anti-religious viewpoint. Frank also thinks that many "mystics" just
makes up descriptions of the astral, which in fact turns many "mystics"
into frauds or con men, who just are getting fat on people's money.

Frank sees the astral as an extension of your mind and not as
a place, the astral is not as if it was another world.

Frank objects to the existence of "possessions", "psychic attacks",
and dismisses the idea to use garlic to ward off "evil spirits".

It then seems to me that Frank doesn't really know the background to
Monroe's Focus Levels. In this youtube clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoRbumsJVu4&feature=related , H. "Skip" Atwater
describes the Focus numbering background, specifically at 7:37 - 8:05.
The Monroe Focus Levels are something that match specific brain wave patterns,
and don't necessarily correspond to Frank's "FOCUSES OF ATTENTION".
Also to my knowledge, Monroe left the exact interpretation of Focus Levels
open.

Frank introduces the idea of a Primary Focus, which doesn't change when
we project our focus of attention to another area of our "consciousness
continuum".

It disturbs me that Frank often uses expressions like "wierd and whacky".

Frank describes some aspects of Focus 2 oC and mentions that it holds
our belief constructs. Frank says that Focus 2 oC is also the region
where people meet all their devils and demons. I guess he disregards
the BST Hells (*) and similar places in this context?

(*) BST = Belief System Territories, Monroe Focuses 24 to 26.

Frank calls Focus 3 oC for the Transition Area.

Frank answers some questions from his Newsletter readers, and some parts
of his answers are good and others are not.

But to summarize this document, it is kind of lacking content. And I
think Frank is bashing the "mystics" a little to much with very little
gain.




Astral Projection Truth Newsletter, Issue 3: 1/July/2005, Frank J Kepple

GRADE: 5.5

Franks states that the further out in Focuses oC you come, the more
difficult it is to describe your experiences in words, specially as
your 5 physical sense are not enough to understand Focus 4 oC.

Frank both praise and criticize Monroe for his system of Focus Levels.

Frank enumerates the Monroe Focus Levels, but to me at least, leaves
out the Monroe Focuses 11, 18, EC 27, 33, 42 and 49. (I have to add
that I have found very few sources mentioning these "excluded"
Focus Levels, and I have by mail got the info that TMI uses these
Focus Levels in some of their courses. EC = Earth Crystal Core)

(It's also interesting to me that Frank doesn't mention Monroe's
concept "the Interstate" or the "M-Band noise".)

I think Frank is attributing statements to Monroe, on matters, which I either
remember Monroe left open or statement I can't remember Monroe having
said. My opinion is that Frank attributes these statements to Monroe
in order for Frank to further validate his Wider Reality model of
the 4 Primary Areas of Consciousness, Focuses of Attention.

This document is probably the one where Frank attacks the "mystics"
the most. Frank warns the reader from "mystics" who are
"trying to manipulate your thinking". Franks also suggests to the
reader not to use the term "focus level" as it makes people think they
need to progress to "higher places".

Frank also attacks the idea that people need to absorb non-physical
energies in order to reach the astral. Frank doesn't care much for
ideas about chakras, "vibrations" and kundalini.

Attack. Attack. Attack.

Frank really attacks mystics in this document. Those name-less mystics
are out to get peoples money. Frank is very clear about how bad these
"mystics" are.

I'm not saying that Frank's criticism on mystics are particular
constructive, but in this document, his criticism is more specific
than in his previous Newsletter Issues, which raises my grade.

Frank also has some interesting and specific ideas about Focus 3 and
Focus 10, which may not follow TMIs definition, but Frank's ideas
are still worth reading.

To my surprise I discovered that in this document, Frank regards the
Monroe Focus 3 and Monroe Focus 10 to be within Focus 1 oC! This is
a different definition compared to the Frank Kepple Resource page.

Frank gives perhaps his best explanation of Focus 4 oC in this document.
Frank still should say exactly on-what-basis, or on what experience
he bases his description of Focus 4 oC. This document contains a few
very good questions from readers, and Frank does his best to explain,
but I can't say that his words ring absolutely clear in my ears.

Certainly, Frank gets a hard time answering some of the intelligent
questions about reincarnations and linear time, from his Newsletter
readers. He answers to the best of his abilities.

Interesting enough, Frank states that for doing a RTZ projection you
create (yes!) an "etheric-body", which you then shed when you move
your focus of attention back to your physical body. I'm surprised,
because this RTZ projection seems to be different from the other
phasing exercises Frank has been talking about. This body-creation
statement also raises some kind of alarm in my mind.

To summarize things, Frank repeats some stuff he has talked about before.
This is the best Newsletter Issue by Frank. He explains some things
about Focus 4 oC and his criticism of "mystics" is more detailed.

He also shortly says something about Focus Z oC.




Astral Projection Truth Newsletter, Issue 4: 16/July/2005, Frank J Kepple

GRADE: 3.0

This document of Frank is kind of poor and very long. I would describe
this document as; words, words, words, but very little content.

Frank start with making some PR for his fairly price up-and-coming book
and then thanks for all mails he got.

AP user Selski explains in an interesting message how she uses her
"trampoline run-down". To some parts the trampoline is like
R Bruce's ROPE technique or Moen's peeling-the-orange technique.

At one time Frank says something about F 3 oC, which caught me by
surprise:

"But 99.99% of the time, you come across situations that there are no
real answers to."

I wonder why 99.99%? Could Frank have been without a guide so often?
Strange.

I really think that Frank should have explain better what he meant
by "individual consensus reality" as consensus is a group thing. Also,
the next response by Frank becomes unclear to me. I don't know
what to believe.

Having read it several times, I realize that Frank repeatedly has
stated something like; F 2 oC is where our dreams come through. This
really gives food for thought, but probably not in the way Frank intended.

It's also interesting to note that Frank mentions running through
all his lovely childhood memories, which could be at Monroe Focus 15.

Frank's claims about Monroe Focus 3 are strange, it almost sounds like
you need to do some kind of Frank-exercise to get to the Monroe Focus 3.

Monroe's Focus Levels are originating from specific brain wave patterns.
And I don't think Frank investigated if his brain wave patterns
corresponded the TMI Focus Level patterns, And thus I'm in doubt to what
degree I want to trust Frank's identification of the Monroe Focus Levels.

Franks also tries to explain something about chakras, but I don't get the
impression that he is completely competent.

And there are other strange Frank comments like:

"You are totally free of it and free to simply wander about in a
kind of 3D space "within your head" so to speak. This is focus 10
."

or comments that make no sense:

"Colour is a Truth. Meaning, there is a representation of colour within
all dimensions. Energy has specific qualities that objectively translate
in particular ways, and one of those ways in which we objectively view
these particular differences or translations is in terms of colour.
"

Franks views the existence of Focus 34/35 with scepticism.

Frank claim that it's possible to get a F2/F3 oC overlay. I would be
interested in hearing from anyone who has managed to do that kind overlay,
without involving F 1 oC.

This document is fairly free from Frank's regular stabs at mystics,
but some criticism still shines through.

In this last Newsletter of Frank, he is mostly answering questions
from people, which should be a good thing to do, but I also get
the feeling that this 4th Newsletter somehow is running out of steam.

"Where do you point your focus of attention?"




The Frank Kepple Resource, 2007, Frank J Kepple & Douglas Eckhart (Gandalf)

GRADE: 7.0

This document is a condensation of selected pieces of text written by
Frank probably from the years 2002 to 2005. The condensation was made
by Eckhart. The high quality of the document must to some part be
ascribed to Eckhart.

Frank's criticism of "mystics" is toned down. Frank is presented
as a researcher, which becomes a weak point as I again request
what experiences Frank used to reach his model; the Wider Reality.
The document aims at describing Frank's world view and Frank's method
of phasing. The document has a very pedagogic layout.

The document makes some claims about Monroe which I can't really
recognize, so I advice the reader to go to Monroe's books as a
primary source and also watch the excellent youtube clips from TMI.

For example, to my knowledge, Monroe used something he called the
"quick-switch method", where he stretched out to his destination,
then let go of his origin and snapped away like a rubber band.
I would have liked Frank just say something about that method, instead
of claiming that everything Monroe did at the end was "phasing".

Frank claims there is no Time and no Space and all of the Wider
Reality is contained in the same point. I would have liked a little
more scientific approach, starting with definitions. If Frank considers
himself a researcher or scientist, definitions are a basic starter.

As noted elsewhere, the definition of F1/F2 oC differs from one of
Frank's Newsletter Issues. And there may be other differences compared
to the Newsletters, for example where to expect the 3-D darkness.

I think this document otherwise contains the best description of
Frank's Focuses oC. The big strength of this document is that it
contains lengthy explanations of all 4 Focuses oC.

Frank may have been influenced by others, for example the sections about
the BST Focuses, emotional loops and the cannibal seem to come from Moen.

Interesting is that Frank seems to have visited some kind of Locale III,
in Monroe style.




========================================================

Now, some of my thoughts as a reviewer.

Frank didn't like to go to the RTZ, and sometimes I actually get the
impression that he didn't manage to enter the RTZ, ever.

Frank avoids some expressions, like "reality fluctuations" or
Alice-in-Wonderland-Effect, which are related to the RTZ.

Frank didn't seem to get the energy body vibrations, which sometimes
fore goes RTZ OBE.

Frank didn't enter Focus 10 or Focus 12 until quite late in his
phasing development.

Frank seems to have met very few ETs on his ways in the astral.
He doesn't seem to have used F 12 as a way to meet aliens, the
Monroe way.

Frank did try to go to TMI-There to see the crystal, but I can't find
any message that he succeeded, here is one attempt reported:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_projection_experiences/frank_how_are_the_retrievals_going-t2037.0.html;msg13314#msg13314

Frank didn't get the concept of an I-There/Disk, see for example:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/reading_monroes_fjs_ithere_question-t4150.0.html;msg27961#msg27961

It's a little strange that Frank talks about 4 Focuses oC and by
that Frank excludes his "fifth" Focus; Focus Z oC. Quite strange indeed.

Frank seemed to reject the idea of Focus 34/35 and quite unscientifically
dropped the idea of ETs as being silly "green men".

Frank didn't seem to believe in PUL or experience PUL.

I can't find any story by Frank where he got his energy or energy body
cleaned or worked on in the astral.

Frank never found anything similar to Monroe's "Interstate", a connector
between the different Monroe Focus Levels.

And quite important, Frank seemed to fight against "mystics" in his
Newsletters. Why did he attack these "mystics" so often?

Frank claims that everything happens at once. On what experiences does
Frank base this claim?

---------------------------------------------

Some thought regarding Frank's simplification of the Monroe Focuses.

Assume some kind of ET came to Earth and tries to put animals into
three groups. Then this ET shows an Earth animal to you and want
you to put it into the appropriate group. You point out to the ET
that the grouping is over-simplified:

Group 1 = Small animals like insects, birds and mice
Group 2 = Big animals like crocodiles, elephants and Big Foot
Group 3 = Water animals like sharks, whales and penguins

You then tell the ET that its grouping of animals has some flaws.
Animals on Earth are divided differently, in groups of mammals, birds
and other. You also point out that Big Foot probably doesn't
exist.

To me, the Frank model is like the Animal Grouping above. It is
over-simplified.

I also wonder if there is some other reason to why Frank used five,
yes, five, groups (not four as he states). My conclusion, and I may
be wrong, but my conclusion is that Frank's Focuses oC may
correspond to Monroe's Focus Levels in a manner like:

Focus 1 oC = Monroe Focus  1
Focus 2 oC = Monroe Focus 15
Focus Z oC = Monroe Focus 21
Focus 3 oC = Monroe Focus 22
Focus 4 oC = "Unknown"

This may seem like a surprise. Frank never got beyond Focus 22!

You may ask: "How could it be like this? It's very different from
what Frank stated!
"

Well...

Frank never did verify, by comparing his brain wave patterns to TMI's
patterns, that he indeed entered the corresponding Monroe Focuses.

Frank never knew for sure what Monroe Focuses he ever reached!

You may also argue that Frank put the RTZ into his F 1 oC. I counter
argue, that he seems very seldom speaking about his whereabouts in
the RTZ. He never understood the "reality fluctuations" and disliked
the concept Alice-In-Wonderland-Effect, which are part of experiences
in the RTZ. Also, Frank didn't get the vibrations, which many report
when they go OBE in the RTZ, but which you don't feel if you phase
into a non-physical/astral environment.

So most likely, we can exclude the RTZ from Frank's F 1 oC.

Further, Frank seemed to get to know F 10 & F 12 very late in his
astral development, and he also placed F 10 in either F 1 oC or in
F 2 oC, as he seemed to have trouble making up his mind. So we can
on good grounds, disregard F 10 and F 12 from Frank's model, as he
wasn't too familiar with those Monroe Focus Levels.

But he seemed to reach F 15 as he wrote that he enjoyed being in
his childhood environments, which make me say that F 15 was Frank's
F 2 oC!

Most likely Frank reached F 21, but seemed to have some troubles
with moving further form there. So I believe him when he says he
thinks it's appropriate to put F 21 in his F Z oC, and I don't
suggest any change on that Focus oC.

But then we come to F 3 oC. Why do I think it is the same as Monroe
Focus 22? Because it is dreamland. When I read Frank's texts they contain
a lot of words, but sometimes lack content. Franks seemed to have too
little experiences from F 23 and the BST Focuses. I'm afraid that
Frank's experiences in F 3 oC was a result of his own imagination.

Frank fought and slayed dragons for many years in F 22. I think
he was so used to be in F 22, that when he started to experience
other things than dragons he had got stuck in F 22. But he knew
how to modify it and most likely, his subconsciousness worked to
keep up with creating things he expected to see.

Frank became the Master of F 22!

Now you may object: "Frank did retrievals! He must have been beyond
F 22!!!
"

Perhaps, perhaps not...

I think that Frank was brought to F 23 by his guide Harath, but
think of it, how many times did Frank relay experiences on his
own from Focuses above F 22? I mean, real experiences that was not
Frank's own imaginations?

Frank didn't seem to find TMI-There or the Crystal. I also think
that Frank doubted some of his experiences which he thought was
from "F 27". Why doubt? My guess is that he felt that something
was wrong. Why? Because he was still in F 22 and being tricked by
his own, extremely well developed and creative subconsciousness, which
created look-a-like F 27 environments.

Also. Frank never experienced PUL. If he _regulary_ was above F 22,
Franks should have discovered PUL, because PUL rock your world
so good, so goooood!

Frank attacked nameless "mystics". My guess is that Frank could
never verify experiences by other skilled astral travelers, who
reached above F 22. Frank was most likely stuck at F 22 for most
of his time, except perhaps on a few times when his guides helped
him move to "higher" levels.

I know this may be a surprise, but please try to re-read Frank's
posts and you will start to see a new pattern, which you may have
missed before.

Master of Focus 22.

That explains a lot of things.

That also explains why Frank was against the idea of motion and
space. In F 22, you are in your own dreamland, you don't need
motion or space, because you are everywhere at all times. You are
in your mind, your dreamland! You only move your point of awareness,
you never move out through the noisy Monroe "M-band", you never
ever travel on Monroe's "Interstate"!

And certainly, you never reach F 34/34 or other places outside ELS.

But there is one exception. Franks seemed to encounter his own
version of a "Locale III". Well, yes, perhaps, but that world
seemed very simplified. Couldn't it be just another creation of
Frank's own mind? Yet another F 22 creation, emanating from his
desire to walk in Monroe's foot steps?

Frank encountered very few ETs otherwise. Did he ever write about
ETs when going into F 12 (which is the first Monroe Focus where
you can meet ETs, see Monroes 2nd book)? Did Frank ever speak
about how he reached other energy systems from F 21/F Z oC?
Did he ever talk about going above F 27? No, I don't think so.

Frank was in F 22, and he didn't like the idea of small green men,
so his subconsciousness never created any ETs.

Why didn't Frank talk about his five Focuses oC? Why did he
always exclude F Z oC from the count, and only stating that
he had 4 Focuses oC? Well, I think he found F 21, but never
managed to go beyond F 21. Instead Frank ended up in F 22, ever
so often.

Didn't seem to get to terms with the Monroe I-There/Moen Disk, which
also is an indication that Frank never did make it out of F 22.
 
Monroe/Moen/Buhlman/Peterson/R Bruce all state some kind of experience
to back their claims. Perhaps Frank has state his experiences of
No-time/everything happens at once/no-reincarnation, but I haven't
found his backing up of his claims. What stories does he have that
back up these claims about F 4 oC? I don't demand evidence, I just
demand to know, what Frank has experienced to come to his conclusions
regarding F 4 oC. What are the background? I find none, nothing!

Repeatedly Frank claims to hold the truth: "People have been deceived
about the wider reality for far too long and it's time they were told
the truth for a change."

I would put a warning sign on any claim, to be the only truth.

And... Yes Frank had a guide. You may ask, why didn't Frank's guide
tell Frank the he only was iterating in F 22? Answer is that perhaps
the guide hoped for Frank to discover his situation himself?

Remember, Monroe's guides never gave Monroe the answer, instead they
let Monroe have the same lesson over and over again, until Monroe
managed to figure out the right answer.

I think the same applied for Frank. He was supposed to find out
why he was so limited compared to Monroe. Frank was supposed
to discover that he had ended up in F 22 repeatedly.

I think I'm right, but some stories of Frank still creates doubts
in me, about my theory. So...

Frank, if you read this and I'm wrong, my apologies.

Frank, if I'm wrong, please forgive me.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 20:16:00 by Pauli2 » Logged

Former PauliEffect (got lost on server crash), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauli_effect , the only case where Murphy's Law doesn't apply. And, oh btw, just remember that OBEs (and NDEs) are NOT the same as LDs.
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 10:34:03 »

Where can i read these newsletters?
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Naykid
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 12:44:43 »

I don't understand why people are surprised when they find that their hero isn't what they thought.  Just because someone writes a book, stars in a movie, etc, does not make them more than a mere human.  Frank was knowledgeable about this stuff, but so are a lot of people.  And what if all of this stuff is so personal that following someone else actually does more harm than good?  I'm just saying.  I wish people would stop worrying and comparing themselves to all these other guys with fancy books out. 

Oh, and his whole mystic issue was with Chakras, auras...etc.  He didn't think it was necessary.  Some people like to do chakra work and cleanse their auras, and so what...let them.  That was a big mistake by Frank, thinking he knew better than everyone else.

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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 14:49:57 »

Pauli,

I was gonna write a quick write-up regarding your review here.
But it was, very quickly, turning into a huge novel-based reply... so I deleted it.

Suffice to say, I think you severely missed many things in regards to his work... and seem to now be hugely influenced by outside opinions on Franks ideas (and now that I've read that post over on Moen's forums, I fully understand your newly formed bias).  As I always say, that's all well and fine... we're all allowed to our own opinions, but I just want to put it out there that after reading your "review" I was very disappointed, as it's not even a close reflection of what Frank's ideas were about.

I'm not saying this because I liked Frank's stuff... but I do urge you to re-read his posts and his newsletters, because I truly do believe you've missed the point ENTIRELY.

Maybe later, when I have more time I'll respond to each of your queries above... but, seriously, if you HAD read his stuff, you would have found all the answers for all your questions there.  I'm actually FLOORED that you asked most of what you did in your review.  

Where can i read these newsletters?
You can find them at the below links:

http://www.imged.org/72/issue1_21_may_2005.txt
http://www.imged.org/72/issue2_15_june_2005.txt
http://www.imged.org/72/issue3_01_july_2005.txt
http://www.imged.org/72/issue4_16_july_2005.txt

Oh, and his whole mystic issue was with Chakras, auras...etc.  He didn't think it was necessary.  Some people like to do chakra work and cleanse their auras, and so what...let them.  That was a big mistake by Frank, thinking he knew better than everyone else.
Frank also never said not to do any of that!  He simply relayed his personal opinion that it was a complete waste of time if your goal was to do astral projection.
And really... he *DID* know better.  He was the one out and doing it... he was the one who WAS NOT doing chakra or energy work and yet still seemed to astral project just fine.

I don't do any of that stuff either and I project.  I'm even on the verge of conscious exits now too (I've actually had plenty of semi-success)... What does that tell you?  Hey, perhaps the guy was right... and it's not required and perhaps you're just wasting your time and effort that could be better put to actually doing astral projection.  <-- NOTE: that's *MY OPINION*, I'm not ordering or telling you not to do it.
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 16:38:41 »

i'm not gonna talk about how i feel about frank, but Pauli, I bow to your dedication to reviewing. 

you put a lot of effort into it.
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 18:53:45 »

Quote
Frank also never said not to do any of that!  He simply relayed his personal opinion that it was a complete waste of time if your goal was to do astral projection.
And really... he *DID* know better.  He was the one out and doing it... he was the one who WAS NOT doing chakra or energy work and yet still seemed to astral project just fine.

I don't do any of that stuff either and I project.  I'm even on the verge of conscious exits now too (I've actually had plenty of semi-success)... What does that tell you?  Hey, perhaps the guy was right... and it's not required and perhaps you're just wasting your time and effort that could be better put to actually doing astral projection.  <-- NOTE: that's *MY OPINION*, I'm not ordering or telling you not to do it.

Don't get your panties in a wad Xanth, sheesh.   cheesy   

I am telling you that Frank would get upset if he wasn't agreed with, that is based on my actual interaction with him... I don't know why you continue to tell me what Frank and I spoke about on or off the boards.  I'm not saying that Frank was a bad, mean ogre, I'm simply telling you how it was.   And don't forget that this forum has had many crashes over the ten years I've been here and much was lost.  And apparently you aren't paying attention to what I say, because I've never said you have to do energy work, chakra work or any of that stuff to have a OBE.  I don't know where you got that idea about me.

It'll be alright Xanth, life will continue whether or not everyone thinks Frank walks on water.  grin
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 18:58:10 »

Some notes:

From how it reads to me, it assumes that everything Monroe has said and did is 100% correct, and all of Frank's information is in comparison to that. That's exactly what Frank was trying to get away from. While he was heavily influenced by Monroe, he was trying to come to his own conclusion of what he was experiencing.

Also, these newsletters were released while he was on the forum, and much of it is in reference to topics that were being discussed a LOT at the time, so he didn't feel the need to explain much of it, just expand on topics already being discussed.

Frank did visit the RTZ, but when he discovered the astral proper, he had no interest in the RTZ, and I COMPLETELY understand that. Physical reality is limited. While the RTZ may seem like a big playground, compared to other states of consciousness, it's materialism with boundaries.

Frank never really got around to explaining F4 too much. It was still fairly new to him and he wanted a well-rounded way to explain it first. Having had F4 experiences myself, I understand this completely. It's an unexplainable state of consciousness that exists outside of space/time.

3D blackness is not a focus level. It's more of a "buffer zone" between focus levels.

Trying to fit everything into a scientific box is just not possible with AP. Everyone is going to have different experiences. Monroe's description of the "interstate" is just his analytical mind having to put everything in a definable way, whether it's definable or not. The more dead-set definitions you apply to your experience, the more limited your experiences will become. I suppose a trip to TMI and learning with people who have experience is one thing, but when you haven't had any experiences and only have books to go by, it's very easy to want everything to be 100% definable. It's just not that way.

At Frank's F4, you realize what consciousness is. That the entire ELS is just consciousness. Frank is right... there is no "outside". Perhaps it's Monroe that never figured this out. I don't know. All kinds of presumptions can be made - they are both gone.

I highly respect Monroe, and I highly respect Frank. Both had amazing things to share. But I'm not going to try to replicate their experiences. I've got my own.
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 19:00:28 »

from what i gather, frank was a novice in metaphysics compared to most of us.  he had only put in a few years of in depth investigation of anything besides his AP experiences right?  

i mean, i've got more than 10 years studying spiritual traditions from around the world and i feel like that has helped me to better understand the application of AP from different perspectives as well as the common thread through all of them.  i really think that this knowledge has helped me to be better aware of all the variables involved in AP.  Granted, I really do appreciate the simplicity of someone like Frank who wasn't bogged down in the mysticism before he got into AP.  But at the same time I feel like a comprehensive understanding of the experience through human civilization is quite helpful.

bottom line, he was just a dude who was good at critical analysis of his experience, and i'd expect he should be, considering he was what in his 50s or something?  it sounds to me like he was quite young in his journey as a seeker of growth.  who knows.
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 19:07:57 »

Quote
I don't do any of that stuff either and I project.  I'm even on the verge of conscious exits now too (I've actually had plenty of semi-success)... What does that tell you?  Hey, perhaps the guy was right... and it's not required and perhaps you're just wasting your time and effort that could be better put to actually doing astral projection.  <-- NOTE: that's *MY OPINION*, I'm not ordering or telling you not to do it.

But Frank knew that the energy system and chakras existed. He experienced them and talked about them up to a certain point, and then said due to his feelings in "mystics", he wouldn't talk about them anymore so people wouldn't get the wrong ideas. If chakras exist (which he agreed with) and each one has certain qualities, and they are accessed and "fired off" (Frank's words), the idea of balancing them and utilizing them doesn't seem too far fetched. I just think Frank was a natural and had no reason to explore it. He said himself that he read a Monroe book in the 80's and immediately was able to do it. That's very rare. I believe David Warner has said something similar himself regarding his first time.

Frank was a bit of a hypocrite - he wanted to define his own experiences, but then expected others to define theirs based on his.
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 19:08:43 »

Well, Stookie pretty much said everything I was going to... in a much shorter post as well.

Pauli,
As the points that Nay and PR have been trying to drive home with me lately... I really think you should just concern yourself more with having an experience than trying to categorize that which you haven't had yet.

It's my new motto, experience first... then if you feel the need, compare notes.
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 19:19:21 »

I always enjoyed reading franks posts as theres alot i can relate to in it, but i never really agreed nor liked his accusation that all being/entitys we encounter are fabrications of the mind.
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 19:24:38 »

I always enjoyed reading franks posts as theres alot i can relate to in it, but i never really agreed nor liked his accusation that all being/entitys we encounter are fabrications of the mind.
Because he never said that.
Focus 2 oC entities are created of your mind.
Focus 3 oC "people" are real beings.
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2010, 19:30:15 »

I will go quote the post where he said "I have no hesitation to say any entity man encounters is a pure fabrication of the mind." i will look for it later though. And im talking about Non-human entitys in general, Not just spirits/ghosts that some people encounter outside of the astral. tongue
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« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2010, 20:08:37 »

I will go quote the post where he said "I have no hesitation to say any entity man encounters is a pure fabrication of the mind." i will look for it later though. And im talking about Non-human entitys in general, Not just spirits/ghosts that some people encounter outside of the astral. tongue
I found it:  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/language_in_the_astral_world-t17500.0.html

You're not quite taking the quote out of context (you are and you aren't), but you are adding your own definitions to Franks words.  Which is completely understandable when you read the post in question by itself.

Although, if you read on, he's speaking about his Focus 2 oC, which, of course, everything you encounter there is a fabrication of your own mind.
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« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2010, 20:22:52 »

I would say that in F2 it's much more possible that it's a fabrication of your mind. I wouldn't rule it out altogether though.
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