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Author Topic: Degree of awareness vs. ability to reason  (Read 2032 times)
clandestino
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« on: September 23, 2002, 11:23:08 »

Hi Patty, I have noticed that the amount of control I have in lucid dreams correlates strongly with how vividly I am experiencing the dream...on some occasions, I know that I am lucid, but I am only "semi in control" ...and at the same time, my recollection is often more vague.

i think that this has something to do with the speed upon which the mind exits the dream state. If the mind exits quickly recollection is low - if you linger in a lucid dream, then the chances are that you will have more vivid recollections.

As for the bed - I haven't got a clue...
but the smell of roses rings a bell....Gabriel garcia marquez uses it quite often as a symbol of death. There is a good short story called "the sea of lost time" that uses this symbol very well.
Mark

 
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ralphm
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2002, 02:25:17 »

I also have been pondering those questions, had a couple of obe dreams over the weekend which I want to post in my thread of obe dreams but have not found it today. There seems to be a strange interface of obe/lucid dream/dream  that I have experienced lately and may be trainng(hopefully). Some things I experienced seems like a wake up call- things just not right to get my attention-however it seems like you were in more than dream awareness.
One thing I noticed in my dream was looking back on my bed(which I have never done in a projection) and seeing an empty bed, with sheets pulled back on my side, however I should have seen 2 bodies in the bed if it was a "real' projection.

 
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2002, 02:25:17 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Patty
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2002, 03:15:39 »

Thank you for the input, Mark and Ralph.

Mark, I think that in general, I have the experience you describe - the more aware I am, the more I can work with what is in front of me. What surprised me about this dream was that in many ways I was NOT very aware. I didn't bother to have a body, I can't for the life of me remember how I got from the ceiling of my bedroom to the door (floating or walking? No clue.) Etc. Nevertheless, I was able to navigate and reason, which in the past has only happened in very aware situations.

Ralph, I have also wondered if this is some sort of training or other. Maybe I want the glitz of a great projection with all the pre-exit symptoms and earmarks like the silver cord. I always thought those were necessary in order to advance or something. Maybe they aren't necessary.

I don't know.

Mark, I will ponder the idea of how fast the mind enters the state and how that might affect things. Thank you for the information about the roses. I should look into that, the symbolism would certainly apply in this case!

Ralph, I have often (well, half a dozen times) not seen what I expected in bed. I don't usually look, but when I do I don't see what 'should' be there. One time I saw my husband and I thought "That can't be right, I'm napping with my daughter right now." So I looked again and I saw my sister. Somehow that was acceptable to me at the time and I didn't question it further. (side note, I have caught myself calling my daughter by this sister's name. So there is a link in my mind between the two.) When I woke up, I was really upset that I had not figured it out at the time, that it couldn't have been my sister. I am not convinced that an OBE has to reflect the real world.  At the same time I hardly understand these experiences.

Patty
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jilola
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2002, 17:05:24 »

quote:
Their bedroom was their sanctuary in my childhood.

Maybe it was missing because they now have a different place of sanctuary?

As for myself, I don't recall a single LD that has taken place in a location know to me in my waking life. I've been aware of my surroundings during the LDs many times but the dreams have aslways been detached form my waking life.

About reasoning:

I seem to have to kinds of LDs, one where I take an active interest in the dream (and have full mental faculties available) and uninvolved where I know I'n dreaming and just dispassionately watch the events unfold.
Sometimes I can turn the uninvolved kind to the involved one by willing myself to replay a set of events.
In the involved kind I can reason and analyze the dream in real time but not always direct the dream (go figure).

I haven't noticed any change in th quality of the dreams over the years except that I have less recurrring ones than I used to.

2cents

jouni
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clandestino
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2002, 17:16:24 »

hey there jouni... i think that all my LD experiences probably fall into either active or passive too. Haven't tried to convert a passive one into an active one, simply because at the time, the idea isn't in my mind.

 
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2002, 17:16:24 »



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jilola
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2002, 18:16:48 »

Patty: What kinds of odd toys? I just spotted that one and felt curiosity raise its head http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>

Clandestino: I've read the accounts of several people here who have a more refined set of LDs, awareness and control wise anyway. For me it's always been aware during the dream or remember the dream later on and have the sense that I was aware at the time but just didn't care.
The somewhat frightening thing about the Lds is that I'm  not quite sure that some memories I have aren't actually LDs. Which brings up an interesting question: How much of our memories are LDs and we just don't realize it?

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ralphm
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2002, 19:15:02 »

Well, I guess I could put my obe dreams here since it is the same type of topic. For the last week or so I have awakened at night and and experienced varying degrees of vibes and exit sensations but no obe(must have been that pre full moon energy). On saturday night I had obe dreams- the first I went straight up out of bed, looked back and saw a different bed than I sleep in, went up a ways, saw this crab-like being coming at me, then I went back to my body, had the thought(while still asleep) that i should not have freaked, could have just blasted the critter or could have asked him what he was. I don't remember waking after this one, next one I was in a VW bug, laid back and took a few deep breaths and went out of body( seems like the phaseout scenario that Frank has talked about). I flew up a small valley, went to some building like a forest service headquarters, talked to some guy, maybe about a key, looked around, when leaving I remembered to ask if my guide was around, looked back and the guy I talked to was looking at me around the corner. This all took a while, was wondering if I should be gone from my body for so long. Woke up back at the VW, Then was talking to someone I was traveling with and got angry that they lost a few of my tapes(Jackson Browne was one I remember) , I think having the anger woke me up. The visuals were comparable to what I experience while obe -foggy and just enough detail out of the fog to make sense of it.Seems like my conciousness is storing info and I am trying to use it .Maybe if I could stop to stare things may become more lucid or obe.

 
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In the world in general and in this nation
May not even the names disease, famine, war, and suffering be heard.
May virtuous qualities, merit, and prosperity greatly increase
And may continuous good fortune and subline well-being perfectly arise.
Patty
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2002, 02:53:54 »

Hi everyone,

I had a more-or-less lucid dream this morning.

Possibly astral, i don't know----

I was in between wake/asleep (but mostly asleep) and tried to get up out of bed --- felt the carpet under my feet, and thought "Well, this *feels* like waking consciousness but who knows, maybe I'm still dreaming" so I jumped and flew up to the ceiling.

"WOOHOO!" I thought. "I'm having a travel. " The ceiling felt very real under my fingertips. I went over to the closed bedroom door (My bedroom seemed to be an accurate reflection of the 'real thing' in my current home)and as soon as I went through the bedroom door, I was in the hallway of my childhood home. At first I was upset "This isn't the layout of my house!" but then I reasoned (I actively "reasoned" in this dream!) that I could explore what this environment had to offer. I decided to go to my parents' bedroom. They have both passed on, and so I thought that their bedroom might be a place in this environment where I would be able to meet them and 'see' them again. (So I hoped.) Their bedroom was their sanctuary in my childhood. (household with 8 kids, we weren't allowed in the bedroom.)

I went into the bedroom and it was more or less correct - but the bed was conspicuously absent.

Why do you suppose that was? I have a few ideas but you guys are always good at seeing new angles. Why was the bed missing? I stood and stared at the empty spot for a minute. then I inhaled and smelled some rose scent. I don't recall mom wearing that, but it was most distinct in the dream. Maybe she wore it when I was real little or something. I remember that she DID have a rosebush outside her bedroom.

I then had a conversation with someone who was not visible. Just a voice. I don't recall the conversation but I think it surrounded 'why' no bed, what the bedroom might symbolize ---

I looked out the window and noticed some odd toys on the windowsill ---

and that is all I remember.

***************************************

So. Apart from the question of what the missing bed might mean.

I am thinking in a larger sense of how my sense of awareness has changed over the years in dreams. Four years ago when I started trying to become fully aware in dreams, I succeeded --- and I saw a clear correlation with the degree of awareness that I had in the experience, and my ability to reason. In other words, if I was *fully* aware in my dream, I would know my body was asleep, be able to recognize what elements didn't make any sense in the experience, I had a 'body' that mirrored my physical body, etc.

If I was only slightly aware, I would think that I was having a lucid dream, but would not note the inconsistencies. For example, four years ago I wouldn't have noticed if my current bedroom exited into my childhood home until I awoke, at which point I would question the whole thing.

Today, I was moderately aware. No body, not certain if it was a dream, a lucid dream, an astral projection, or what. I wasn't concerned about any of those things. There were elements from all of the possible dream categories. I didn't feel hyper-alert or even aware of a body. Rather, I felt sort of aware of my surroundings but able to immediately recognize inconsistencies, and able to easily reason how to navigate the environment. Able to ask in the context of the experience what this or that might mean (Although I don't think I received any meaningful answer.)

Do you have any thoughts on awareness, consciousness, reasoning ability ---- how these things interrelate in dreams? I am not saying that my experiences today are better or worse than they were four years ago (I still wish to have a fully conscious hyperaware OBE where I can validate projection of consciousness separate from the body; today's 'dream' was definitely not THAT. But it did have a lot of value in other areas.)

Thanks for any ideas!

Patty
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