How to convert Lucid Dreams into an Astral Projections

[Tombo]

Hi there!

Converting Lucid dreams into Astral Projections seems to be a promising way for people like myself, who do have great difficulty to relax completely when awake. This is especially the case since LD's are way easier to achieve then conscious Projections (at least for the average Person).
I raised this subject also cause it comes up time after time and seems to interest a lot of people.

So...

-Which techniques do you think are the best, to convert a Lucid Dream     into an Astral Projection?


Please feel free to add Experiences, Comments, Advice etc...

To make a start I share My own experience:

When the LD's ends I try to lay still. If I manage to stay mentally and physically relaxed, the vibrations may hit about 10-60 Seconds after I wake up. (I only did it 4 times yet)

Below I posted The reply RB gave on the subject: (Don't fear to re speak though )

1) What techniques do you recommend to convert a LD into an OBE? (Or were can I get Info on that matter ?)

2) Do you think this conversion-approach is something promising to do?

3) Is there any certain test I can perform while out of body to unfailingly determine if I'm having an Astral Projection or a LD?


G'day!

1. One way to convert is to 'feel' for your body. Another is to fall backwards in an LD. But conversion is hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

2. Yes, its worth trying.

3. The only way to be certain is to induce an OBE exit from an awake state of consciousness and then to return for deliberate reentry. The dream mind is capable of producing almost perfect OBE dreams from start to finish, eg, you'll dream you wake up then make an obe exit, etc, but its all a dream. The only way to tell for sure is if there is no break in consciousness from start to finish.

Robert Bruce.

[clandestino]

Hi Tom,

For me anyway, "converting" to a lucid dream is simply a case of getting more clarity, or to put that another way, increasing my level of awareness until it is on a par with that I experience during waking conciousness.

To do this, I demand to have more clarity, just as the textbooks* recommend. As strange as it sounds, stating out aloud a demand like "Clarity -NOW !" whilst in a lucid dream, can have the desired effect. It doesn't always work, but you'd be surprised how effective it can be.

Converting to an OBE in the real time zone....now, I've never done that before...

Kind regards,
Mark

* Off the top of my head, I can't remember what "textbooks" these may be....My memory is shockingly bad. Though I'm sure I've read this "clarity" command somewhere (perhaps in astral dynamics) & it certainly works.

[Leo Volont]

Lucid Dreams can be wonderful things in and of themselves. The Higher Self goes through a great deal of effort to make Big Lucid Dreams the pivotal points of one's Spiritual Development, and so I would be careful about nullifying each and every single Lucid Dream that would come along. However, I suppose that the Higher Self would be able to somehow effect the Astral Projections so that the same Spiritual Advancements could be attained... one way or the other.

Anyway, I was once able to turn a Lucid Dream into an Astral Projection. I think I used Sylvan Muldunes technique of once having become lucid, I put myself into the same position that I would think corresponded to the position of my sleeping body -- in this case I levitated up horizontally belly-up, back-down. And then I willed myself to rise up into the air. The Technique presupposes that this rising up will take the Astral Body up and away from the physical body, out of range of where the 'silver chord' which connects the two bodies can likely cause interference (I believe that they all say that one should get at least 20 feet from the physical body, or there is the problem of being whipped back into the body from any even minor emotional disturbance).

Anyway, I went upward like a rocket. In the Dream it was broad daylight and so it seemed that I went up so fast and high that I got above the atmosphere and could begin to see the black sky and the stars. This is when I crashed through to the Real Astral. It was still dark, but it was cloudy and I was only a few hundred feet above my house. There was a bit of the Mind-Split thing going on, and so when my maid in the kitchen rattled a few pots and pans, it woke me up for a second... but since I was well above the body I was not pulled entirely back into the body, and was able to re-establish my awareness in the Astral. I decided to get away from the house altogether and go to the local downtown Rail Station and Town Square. There were some subjective elements. Apparently the Local People were more proud of their Town then they ever let on, because in the Astral they have this huge Statue of an old town Hero. And near one store there were these demonic imps playing about. So in the future I made it a point not to shop at that particular store.

[paker7]

IMHO Lucid Dreams are Astral Projections.

The only difference is in the perception - if you think that you're in the astral - then you most probably are in the astral.
Thought = Reality  

Another interesting thread:how to go realtime?

[cainam_nazier]

Okay I am trying to put this into the correct words so forgive me if it comes out wrong.

I have experienced several LD to OBE instances.  Each time it started with me in a dream and realizing that I am dreaming.  To make it fully understood, I could at that moment in time be experiencing a dream and not just know I was asleep but could feel my body sleeping.  This being to the point where I could think in my dream that it was time to roll over in bed.  Then do so and continue my LD.

Now when I take an LD to an OBE I usually stop ever thing I am doing in the dream.  I take a very careful look around to see if I might want to stay first before going on.  When I have decided the dream just drops out and I find myself on the 3D blackness.  From there I go on an OBE trip.

I know Mr. Bruce that the dream mind can re-create an OBE experience but to me the 3D blackness that I end up in from a LD is the same as when I have experienced my few traditional OBE's.  It could just be a matter of awareness.

[shaman]

THe way you described the passage from LD to OBE is by actually starting to wake up. You can do exactly the same with everyy single normal dream every morning. As you notice that you are waking up, just stay in bed and don't move an inch and reach for that feeling of "sleep" and "dream" in which you were just before. Then start to reach for the sensation of free fall and the vibrations will come. I myself did that twice, but haven't much time in the morning to do that. The other problem is that of being unconfortable and having a need to move in bed or to go to the bathroom... Otherwise it should work. From normal sleep into OBE....

[clandestino]

IMHO Lucid Dreams are Astral Projections.

Agreed ! But I have noticed that even during a lucid dream, I will carry on pursuing the most bizzare set of circumstances. For example, 3 or 4 nights ago I woke up & realised "hang on, I'm dreaming", yet I continued to float high in the air of a chapel, bouncing between the wooden beams, chasing after some kind of insect(? can't really remember). At the time, I knew I was dreaming, & I knew I had full control, but I was still engaged in an activity that I wouldn't normally pursue under 100% waking conciousness. I "chose" to carry on with this strange dream.

I see OBE's as differing from lucid dreams, only in the level of awareness. The "astral" as such is just as real, in a dream, a day dream, or a full-blown OBE in my opinion.

I have experienced several LD to OBE instances. Each time it started with me in a dream and realizing that I am dreaming. To make it fully understood, I could at that moment in time be experiencing a dream and not just know I was asleep but could feel my body sleeping. This being to the point where I could think in my dream that it was time to roll over in bed. Then do so and continue my LD.

Hi Cainam, hows things !

I've had this happen several times. I'll roll over, then slip into the same dream. Though, this leaves a blank patch in my memory. Its almost as if my other persona has been carrying on with the dream scenario, without my knowledge !

Sorry for getting a bit off topic....
Shaman, you say "reach for that feeling of sleep..." however, I have tried this, & (for me anyway) it only ends up with me being fully awake !! Have you got any more ideas that might help me (and others) here ?
thanks and kind regards,

Mark

[Tombo]

IMHO Lucid Dreams are Astral Projections.

The only difference is in the perception - if you think that you're in the astral - then you most probably are in the astral.
Thought = Reality  

Another interesting thread:how to go realtime?

What does you make to believe that? I mean, it is very well possible that the two are the same thing, but just to say it is so, is a bit easy I think. So could you please explain your viewpoint? After all it is certainly not a matter of course since there are quite some experienced Projectors like Robert Bruce as well as others who seem to be sure it is not the same thing!

Cheers Tom

[paker7]

IMHO Lucid Dreams are Astral Projections.

The only difference is in the perception - if you think that you're in the astral - then you most probably are in the astral.
Thought = Reality  

Another interesting thread:how to go realtime?

What does you make to believe that? I mean, it is very well possible that the two are the same thing, but just to say it is so, is a bit easy I think. So could you please explain your viewpoint? After all it is certainly not a matter of course since there are quite some experienced Projectors like Robert Bruce as well as others who seem to be sure it is not the same thing!

Cheers Tom

Let's define what we are talking about:

Dreaming:
Being in a different reality (The Astral) without being aware of this fact.

Lucid dreaming:
Knowing that what you see/experience is not a physical reality and most often believing that it is all created by your mind and happening "inside" (and therefore believing that nothing is real).

Astral travel/projection:
Exploring non physical realities and knowing that everything that you experience is "outside" - and no matter if created by you or not - everything is real.

OOBE:
Two definitions.

1. For me OOBE is every experience that does not involve my physical senses (dreaming,lucid dreaming,astral projection,real time projection etc).

2. For some people being out of body is exclusively being in Robert's "real time zone".



So if you meant to ask how to convert LD to AP - my answer is:

The only difference between LD and AP is a false opinion of being "inside" (LD) and a proper knowledge of exploring the "outside" (AP) - that is why IMHO LD and AP are exactly the same thing (just different terminology).

But if your question is how to convert LD to OOBE definition #2 then my reply would be:

Will yourself near your physical body and/or say loud "i am in the real time zone", be absolutely sure that you are here and you will be.

[Leo Volont]

Now when I take an LD to an OBE I usually stop ever thing I am doing in the dream.  I take a very careful look around to see if I might want to stay first before going on.  When I have decided the dream just drops out and I find myself on the 3D blackness.  From there I go on an OBE trip.

Interesting.  I'll have to try that.

[Sampson]

Hi Everyone,
Hi tombodenmann, as requested I have copied my post from the 'A different view on OBE/AP: an article' thread over in the OBE Discussion forum to here:

Hi!
 

I would be extremely interested in knowing how any of you know the difference for sure.

All of my out of body experiences have so far been into what is called the RTZ (Real Time Zone) below are a some of the symptoms and attributes that I feel separate this experience from a dream for me:

Precursors to the projection are clear crisp sounds that resemble ripping Velcro and a sound similar to somebody walking on a gravel path - I experience sounds in my dreams but these are quite unlike the above and do not share their clarity.

I always exit through my head - I never experience this strange phenomenon when I dream.

I always have the same dimensions out of body, which are about the size of a tennis ball - In the dream state my body feels as if it has the same dimensions as it does in the physical, although on occasion this can change.

I always project into my bedroom - I rarely have dreams about my bedroom and when I do they are never as clear and vivid nor as simple and ordinary as when I leave my body. Another note here is that I have had an RTZ projection whilst staying away from home in a hotel, I projected out of body directly into the room in which I was staying.

Awareness and sensitivity to my environment is extremely heightened in all aspects - Although I experience my senses in the dream state they seem dulled in comparison to when I am out of the body.

Projection ends with a blackout - My dreams either tend to merge or fade into the next or I awake naturally after a REM/Dream cycle.

I suppose one could argue that an experience with characteristics of the above could be said to be a ‘special kind of recurring dream’ with very specific qualities.

I have had lucid dreams where I have projected too, these dreams served as a good comparison to what I would call my true RTZ experiences. The lucid dream projections shared all of the characteristics of a real projection but were much more toned down and felt false and a weak copy in contrast.

In these lucid dream projections it’s almost as if I am applying my own interpretation of how I feel the projection experience should follow rather than experiencing the associated phenomena as a separate accompaniment to the true experience. The lucid dream projections also took place in locations other than my bedroom, these locations were vague and unfamiliar and very dream like.

I feel that dreams always serve a purpose of some kind, but when I project I tend to just sit in my tennis ball like form near my head, feet or in another part of the room in the quiet and just peacfully observe, this is quite unlike my dreams and is a very conscious experience.

I feel that I know the difference between the two for sure mainly through having the experience itself, I wish I could share that feeling with others but unfortunately I can’t   .

Cheers

S

[Xetrov]

Hello people,

Just a quick question

Bruce stated that "The only way to tell for sure is if there is no break in consciousness from start to finish. "

Does he mean here that to be sure it is an OBE, you have to be sure there is a continuous flow of consciousness? Or not? (im confused)

[catmeow]

Hi all,

I think OBE and LD are quite different.

OBE = public reality (ie a stable shared collective environment)
LD = private reality (ie an unstable private individual fantasy)

Try this simple test, whilst LD/OBE.  If you find yourself in a street, look at one of the street signs and read it.  Then look away and look back at the street sign.

Now if you are LD then each time you look at the street sign you will see a different name.  I absolutely guarantee it.  However, if you are OBE you will always see the same street name.

I don't know why this happens, but it does.

In laboratory experiments, some OBE'rs have been able to read numbers placed out of physical sight and report the number back to the experimenters.  However, if every time they looked at the number it changed, then they would not be able to do this.

In LD the number changes every time you look at it.

Try it!  
catmoew

[Tombo]

Let's define what we are talking about:

Dreaming:
Being in a different reality (The Astral) without being aware of this fact.

Lucid dreaming:
Knowing that what you see/experience is not a physical reality and most often believing that it is all created by your mind and happening "inside" (and therefore believing that nothing is real).

Astral travel/projection:
Exploring non physical realities and knowing that everything that you experience is "outside" - and no matter if created by you or not - everything is real.

OOBE:
Two definitions.

1. For me OOBE is every experience that does not involve my physical senses (dreaming,lucid dreaming,astral projection,real time projection etc).

2. For some people being out of body is exclusively being in Robert's "real time zone".



So if you meant to ask how to convert LD to AP - my answer is:

The only difference between LD and AP is a false opinion of being "inside" (LD) and a proper knowledge of exploring the "outside" (AP) - that is why IMHO LD and AP are exactly the same thing (just different terminology).

But if your question is how to convert LD to OOBE definition #2 then my reply would be:

Will yourself near your physical body and/or say loud "i am in the real time zone", be absolutely sure that you are here and you will be.

So, you said that on an Astral projection one knows everything is real while in a LD one believes it is no real (although it is), did I understood you right?
So my question then would be: How can I know (see/realize) that everthing in the LD is real? (Since that would make it a Astral Projection, right?)

Cheers Tom

[Tombo]

Hello people,

Just a quick question

Bruce stated that "The only way to tell for sure is if there is no break in consciousness from start to finish. "

Does he mean here that to be sure it is an OBE, you have to be sure there is a continuous flow of consciousness? Or not? (im confused)

As I understand it, he means that your conscious never blacks out (Falls asleep) Meaning that you are awake then you lay down induce a Projection and afterwards you come "back" stand up and remember the whole thing without a gap.
On the other hand I don't see any difference between WILD and Astral Projection then (I'm confused too...), so I might be wrong here.
Cheers Tom