How to convert Lucid Dreams into an Astral Projections

[wizkitten]

IMHO Lucid Dreams are Astral Projections.

The only difference is in the perception - if you think that you're in the astral - then you most probably are in the astral.
Thought = Reality  

Another interesting thread:how to go realtime?

For me, at least, there is a huge difference. I've had dreams that were lucid for as long as I can remember quite regularly.
My first OOBE was mindblowing.. and appeared to be completely in the physical world with a complete waking consciousness and sense of awareness and orientation.

[Stookie]

.. and appeared to be completely in the physical world with a complete waking consciousness and sense of awareness and orientation.

Some of my lucid dreams are like that.

Everybody seems to report different things when it comes to the level of awareness in lucid dreams. I notice little difference between dream and lower astral environments. I believe they are very similar states of consciousness.

[thirdeye26]

This one is really confusing me, but when you are having a really good LD, aren't you in fact lucid dreaming? Perhaps you could even walk up to your body and have a look at it peacefully asleep. Or leave a sign for yourself.

[BlueTone]

I tried to read just about this entire post, but its difficult with 4 pages, and being so anxious to leave my response. Now, i'm sure 90% of you have heard of this technique, but i'd like to leave it here for the 10% that might not have!!

Lucid Dreaming used to be something i was blessed with about 4 nights a week. I loved that. I was anxious to find a way to use that as a short cut to perform an OBE. The best way for me to do this, and it has worked for me ( Or so it seems so vividly ) is the following.

At a moment in the dream, I will attempt to clarify the area around me by aggressively demanding so. Whatever affirmation you find comfortable. I just scream " Clear and Bright...NOW!.....Focus And Clarify! ".......Once i get to a brightly comfortable point.....I tell myself that when i turn around, there will be a standing mirror, close to my width and height (Having something behind you when you turn around, is alot easier than having something appear right infront of you. Not sure why, But it just seems easier to " know " it will be there, than to create it). Then, i simply turn around, look at the mirror...smile.......a walk into it, with the full knowledge it will trigger an OBE.

Now, in my experience, It causes such a jar and change of your surroundings, that its just too difficult to create a whole new " Mirror Land ". So i just find myself floating above myself. This has had to have worked for me half a dozen times. The mirror almost feels like your pushing yourself through a layer of leathery skin, ripping your way through.

Anyone that has a great effective rate of LD, i recommend giving this a try. In fact, I would love to hear others experiences in this!!??


Thank you!,
               ~ Ryan D.
               ~Za Hourou Iki~

[embrace]

As many have said, I'm still now sure whether or not Lucid Dream equals OOBE. Some of my experiences would suggest that they are the same, while others would confirm the opposite.

[blidge]

As many have said, I'm still now sure whether or not Lucid Dream equals OOBE. Some of my experiences would suggest that they are the same, while others would confirm the opposite.

As i understand it from what i have read on pulse is that the only difference between lucid dreams and OOBE is the level of frequency. Im guessing dreams where you are not aware of anything i.e. dreaming, are at the lower end of the spectrum and OOBE in the RTZ are at the higher end. Having an OOBE in the RTZ real time Zone is always going to be different than a lucid dream. As mentioned there are established realms of built up areas created over time that cannot easily be changed by will alone unless your in a lucid dream and in that case your not having a true OOBE. 

A lucid dream with enable you to change your environment at will so long as you focus your will/intent, this isnt the case in the RTZ, from my experience.

Hope this helps, happy travelling. 

[Xanth]

As i understand it from what i have read on pulse is that the only difference between lucid dreams and OOBE is the level of frequency. Im guessing dreams where you are not aware of anything i.e. dreaming, are at the lower end of the spectrum and OOBE in the RTZ are at the higher end. Having an OOBE in the RTZ real time Zone is always going to be different than a lucid dream. As mentioned there are established realms of built up areas created over time that cannot easily be changed by will alone unless your in a lucid dream and in that case your not having a true OOBE. 

A lucid dream with enable you to change your environment at will so long as you focus your will/intent, this isnt the case in the RTZ, from my experience.

Hope this helps, happy travelling. 

What if that is something you simply "believe"? 

Then, when you're experiencing what you're "referring" to as the RTZ, what if your belief becomes reality? 

That would mean you're causing your own inability to change the reality frame you're experiencing... which then further reinforces your belief that this "RTZ" is an unchangeable reality... which then further reinforces your belief... which then reinforces the unchangeable reality... which then FURTHER reinforces that belief...

See where I'm going with this?  You've now got yourself stuck in a belief trap and you've closed off any chance of further exploration.

It all boils down to this: "Belief equals a trap"

So how do we fix this?  Don't believe.

[ange.connell]

Hi Zanth

re your resonse to Blidge. You'll have to forgive me in my ignorance but I don't quite get your statement "Belief equals a trap and So how do we fix this?  Don't believe. Ok I get this to a degree but then I am reading Dreamgates and Robert Moss says Shamanic dreamers tend to be quite literal minded about dreams. Surely then this is their belief. He also says that is dreaming traditions the dreamworld is the real world. He also talks about the Ojibwa and that they include remembered events that have occurred in dreams. The Australian Aborigines believe they receive guidance and messages from ancestors. So? is what your saying that all these peoples shouldn't believe because they would fall into a belief trap? Can you please put your reply in any simpler form? Or is it just me?

[blidge]

What if that is something you simply "believe"? 

If you don't have some kind of belief as everyone does then what do you have instead?

Then, when you're experiencing what you're "referring" to as the RTZ, what if your belief becomes reality? 
IF my belief becomes reality then it does, but what your referring to is also something that you 'believe in'.

Its all about opinions

So how do we fix this? 
whats there to fix?

[Xanth]

Hi Zanth

re your resonse to Blidge. You'll have to forgive me in my ignorance but I don't quite get your statement "Belief equals a trap and So how do we fix this?  Don't believe. Ok I get this to a degree but then I am reading Dreamgates and Robert Moss says Shamanic dreamers tend to be quite literal minded about dreams. Surely then this is their belief. He also says that is dreaming traditions the dreamworld is the real world. He also talks about the Ojibwa and that they include remembered events that have occurred in dreams. The Australian Aborigines believe they receive guidance and messages from ancestors. So? is what your saying that all these peoples shouldn't believe because they would fall into a belief trap? Can you please put your reply in any simpler form? Or is it just me?

I'm not saying anything.  At no point am I saying "this is how it is".  I'm simply trying to open minds and provide a possible alternative to consider.  There could be many possible alternatives that I haven't even come to realize yet.

In any case... is the RTZ a real place where you can't "change" things?  Who knows... I sure don't know the answer to that question.  And I'd bet all your star wars menz that nobody else on this planet can either.

My open mind simply asks: What if it's just your belief (that the RTZ is unchangeable) that makes it so? 
What if the RTZ is only unchangeable to you because you believe it's unchangeable?

I don't know about anyone else here, but that very idea boggles my mind.