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Author Topic: How to convert Lucid Dreams into an Astral Projections  (Read 11065 times)
paker7
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2004, 11:51:32 »

Quote from: tombodenmann
Quote from: paker7

Let's define what we are talking about:

Dreaming:
Being in a different reality (The Astral) without being aware of this fact.

Lucid dreaming:
Knowing that what you see/experience is not a physical reality and most often believing that it is all created by your mind and happening "inside" (and therefore believing that nothing is real).

Astral travel/projection:
Exploring non physical realities and knowing that everything that you experience is "outside" - and no matter if created by you or not - everything is real.

OOBE:
Two definitions.

1. For me OOBE is every experience that does not involve my physical senses (dreaming,lucid dreaming,astral projection,real time projection etc).

2. For some people being out of body is exclusively being in Robert's "real time zone".



So if you meant to ask how to convert LD to AP - my answer is:

The only difference between LD and AP is a false opinion of being "inside" (LD) and a proper knowledge of exploring the "outside" (AP) - that is why IMHO LD and AP are exactly the same thing (just different terminology).

But if your question is how to convert LD to OOBE definition #2 then my reply would be:

Will yourself near your physical body and/or say loud "i am in the real time zone", be absolutely sure that you are here and you will be.


So, you said that on an Astral projection one knows everything is real while in a LD one believes it is no real (although it is), did I understood you right?


Yes  Cool

Quote from: tombodenmann

So my question then would be: How can I know (see/realize) that everthing in the LD is real? (Since that would make it a Astral Projection, right?)

Cheers Tom


I have a question for you:

What do you think is real and what is unreal ?

My expanded definition of these words :
Everything that happens or exists is real and there is no such thing as an "unreal thing".

For example : imagine a beautiful lady standing next to you - you just created her in the astral dimension and she is as real as you are, she exists in the astral therefore she is real.

You can even create your physical reality - first create something or some situation in the astral and then pump it with energy and will it to the physical dimension.

In the astral reality people very often think that if the environment is perfectly stable then it must be more real than some other completely fluid area.

I have a theory:
The stability of an astral area is proportional to the number of entities in that area.

When you are alone in the astral - you can do everything, but if someone is with you there - his subconsious mind may think that it is impossible to do something that you want to do and this can potentially block some of your creations and your private "reality fluctuations".

If you can, just go to The Park in F27 (always very crowded place) and try to change something big and important - i'm pretty sure that you will fail.
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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2004, 18:31:09 »

Quote
I have a question for you:

What do you think is real and what is unreal ?
My expanded definition of these words :
Everything that happens or exists is real and there is no such thing as an "unreal thing
".

 O.k. I try to answer this delicate question. I agree that everything that you experience is real for you per se. But is it real for others? Real is probably the wrong word to describe what I meant but I'll try:
I consider something real (in the context of LD/OBE) when it is perceivable by two independent consciousness, since it then appears to have a substance on it's own which is not generated by my consciousness.
On the other hand if this is not possible I have no reason to assume it has a substance on its own. I then would it label unreal/ fantasy/ internal experience. Without demeaning this internal experience I want to add.

Quote
For example : imagine a beautiful lady standing next to you - you just created her in the astral dimension and she is as real as you are, she exists in the astral therefore she is real.
If I imagine a beautiful lady and then somebody, experienced enough can go to the astral and find out her hair color how she looks etc.. then I would consider it to be a real lady in the above sense. If that is not possible I would label it unreal lady.

Quote
You can even create your physical reality - first create something or some situation in the astral and then pump it with energy and will it to the physical dimension.

In the astral reality people very often think that if the environment is perfectly stable then it must be more real than some other completely fluid area.

I have a theory:
The stability of an astral area is proportional to the number of entities in that area.

When you are alone in the astral - you can do everything, but if someone is with you there - his subconscious mind may think that it is impossible to do something that you want to do and this can potentially block some of your creations and your private "reality fluctuations".

Nice theorie, It should be possible to test if you are right.

Quote
If you can, just go to The Park in F27 (always very crowded place) and try to change something big and important - i'm pretty sure that you will fail

What is F27?  huh  How can I get there?

Cheers Tom
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paker7
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« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2004, 05:14:27 »

Quote from: tombodenmann
Quote
I have a question for you:

What do you think is real and what is unreal ?
My expanded definition of these words :
Everything that happens or exists is real and there is no such thing as an "unreal thing".


I consider something real (in the context of LD/OBE) when it is perceivable by two independent consciousness, since it then appears to have a substance on it's own which is not generated by my consciousness.

So if you couldn't verify your experience by talking with other astral travellers who were there with you - would you be completely sure that it was only your imagination, only in your mind ?

What if those other astral projectors would agree with you on anything except one small detail.

For example - you saw a herd of flying pink elephants flying around you all the time, but your friends didn't.

Who is able to decide whether you saw something that wasn't there or your companions had trouble with seeing the elephants that were there ?

If their minds couldn't accept the possibility of existence of flying pink elephants, they wouldn't be able to see those elephants.

Quote from: tombodenmann

Quote
For example : imagine a beautiful lady standing next to you - you just created her in the astral dimension and she is as real as you are, she exists in the astral therefore she is real.


If I imagine a beautiful lady and then somebody, experienced enough can go to the astral and find out her hair color how she looks etc.. then I would consider it to be a real lady in the above sense. If that is not possible I would label it unreal lady.

And "experienced enough" would need to mean 100% objective.
If not - he would probably distort the reality and mix your perception of beauty with his.

Quote from: tombodenmann

Quote
If you can, just go to The Park in F27 (always very crowded place) and try to change something big and important - i'm pretty sure that you will fail

What is F27?  huh  How can I get there?


http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/what.html

http://thegatewayexperience.com/monroeprograms/exploration27.html
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« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2004, 12:37:00 »

Quote
So if you couldn't verify your experience by talking with other astral travelers who were there with you - would you be completely sure that it was only your imagination, only in your mind ?

No I actually would have no clue if it is my mind or not!

Quote
What if those other astral projectors would agree with you on anything except one small detail.

Then I would start to believe that it is not created by my mind exept maybe the little detail.

Code:
For example - you saw a herd of flying pink elephants flying around you all the time, but your friends didn't
Who is able to decide whether you saw something that wasn't there or your companions had trouble with seeing the elephants that were there ?

Hmmm, No idea. I guess it is not possible to decide

Quote
If their minds couldn't accept the possibility of existence of flying pink elephants, they wouldn't be able to see those elephants.

Yeah, thats indeed possible

Quote
And "experienced enough" would need to mean 100% objective.
If not - he would probably distort the reality and mix your perception of beauty with his.

Well yeah it probably would mean 100 % objective (if thats possible at all...)

Well you got me confused! Maybe there is no such thing as objective or real in the astral, Maybe it is like a merging scale. on the other hand there seem to be real (Not created by mind(s)) things there like other Spirits, Projectors, guides etc... there.


Code:
http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/what.html

http://thegatewayexperience.com/monroeprograms/exploration27.html
Thanks paker7!

Cheers Tom
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catmeow
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2004, 00:38:36 »

Hi all

LD vs OBE.  Ok, this is a delicate area for some on this board, so please don't get upset if I say anything you disagree with!

Quote from: parker7
Let's define what we are talking about:

Dreaming:
Being in a different reality (The Astral) without being aware of this fact.

Lucid dreaming:
Knowing that what you see/experience is not a physical reality and most often believing that it is all created by your mind and happening "inside" (and therefore believing that nothing is real).

Astral travel/projection:
Exploring non physical realities and knowing that everything that you experience is "outside" - and no matter if created by you or not - everything is real.

OOBE:
Two definitions.

1. For me OOBE is every experience that does not involve my physical senses (dreaming,lucid dreaming,astral projection,real time projection etc).

2. For some people being out of body is exclusively being in Robert's "real time zone".  

Ok, by this definition, everything basically is "real".  There is no such thing as "unreal".  I have no problem with this idea.  In fact many people on this board share this belief that dreams have a "reality" which is just as valid as physical "reality", and I completely respect the viewpoint.

But by this definition of "reality" we have now lost a word from the English language, namely "real"!  It no longer has any meaning, since everything is "real".  There is no such thing as "unreal", and therefore there can be no such thing as "real".  The word has disappeared.

For this reason, on this board I always prefix the word reality with a qualifier, such as "private" or "public".  I use the following terms interchangeably:

private reality = personal reality = internal reality
public reality = shared reality = common reality = concensus reality

So whenever I use the word "reality" (since I know it is contentious) I always prefix it with one of these terms. By doing this, I have effectively replaced the terms "unreal" and "real" with "private" and "public".   For me at least, talking about "private " and "public" is much more helpful than talking about "unreal" and "real".  

Also, I go a little further and use this distinction, between "private" and "public" (in main) as the definition of the terms "subjective" and "objective".  I have posted about this before in the OBE forums:

Quote from: catmeow
Quote from: tombodenmann
Interesting I gave some comments on the problems of definitions in the reply to Xetrov. What do you mean by subjective and objective?

I'm glad you asked that!

My definition of subjective is "private" and objective is "public". In other words a subjective experience is a personal, private experience, not shared by others, occuring in a private reality. On the other hand an objective experience is a public experience, occurring in some sort of shared or concensus reality. There has to be a very strong degree of concensus for something to be classified as "objective", in other words a lot of people have to share the experience, not just two (as in the dream I shared with my mother).

The physical world is truly objective, since we all agree on it. By and large our dreams are subjective because we tend not to share them with anyone. Occasionally two people may share a dream, but this can be explained as two private dreams linked together by ESP. So a shared dream like this would probably rate as "subjective" by my definition, because it isn't shared by everyone.

According to many authors, and also a number of people on this board, LD and OBE are quite (even utterly) different experiences.  

I think LD=private and OBE=public.  LD takes place in a private world, with constantly shifting fantasy elements.  OBE on the other hand takes place in a public world with less fantasy elements and more stability.

There are other differences of course.  I have never heard of anyone experiencing 360 degree (spherical vision) during LD, whilst I have read a number of reports of this occurring during traditional OBE's.  Also, as I recently posted, if you try to read and re-read a street sign during LD you will always see a different street name every time you look at the sign.  Try it!  During OBE such shifts do not tend to happen.

IMHO there is a definite, meaningful and significant difference between LD and OBE.  They are different experiences.  It is logically incorrect  to say that since these are both "real" experiences they are therefore both the same experience.   This simply doesn't follow.

I also happen to believe there is a biological difference (LD=physical/etheric consciousness, OBE=astral consciousness) as taught by RB, but this is a different discussion altogether. Cheesy

catmeow
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Little Star Orion
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2004, 09:54:23 »

Hi,
I have had lucid dreams since I was a small child. I had always believed I was in a different world, a real world somewhere out there in a different dimension.
Then I began to read about the theme, I found it quite frustrating how everyone told different things. Because of what I red, I have believed for a while that lucid dreams where noting more then dreams with more consciousness.
But it had a very negative effect upon my lucid dreams, they did disappear.
When I found back my believe in lucid dreams, that it is just like an out of bod experience a way to explore a whole different world, that my lucid dreams did come back.
I did a course to learn to astral project/or induce a out of body experience, but till now I did not had one.

But now I even believe it more, that one can astral travel, and it does not matter if one enters the astral by a lucid dream or an out of body experience.

regards,
Little Star Orion
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Tombo
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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2004, 11:54:46 »

Thank you every body for the input so far. I'm very aware that one should not demean the Lucid Dream by itself and that a lucid Dream and a Astral Projection are probably two sides of the same coin. Therefore I think I'll reformulate my initial question into...........

..............What techniques do you use, once you notice have a Lucid Dream, to heighten your awareness and gain more control and clarity and/or to shift from a mainly self-created world into a more "public" area and/or to shift into specific realms such as the RTZ or upper Astral.

I guess this is the  less restricting and more useful Question  wink
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« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2005, 04:34:32 »

i may have a way to "convert" LD into OOBE. u must have "power", power is intent and along with clarity they become more. soo... take an object in your dream, prefibly one u can "hold" ur attention on easly, then be calm, feel urself and the object keeping it to far to tutch, feel it with ur mind. after that let everything fall away.  

this works well with windows in a dream look into it, then beyond, then further, next thing u know ur somewhere clearer. another way is to assume the possision that u do when sleeping, let ur dream continue then fall asleep within ur dream then dream u wake up, still dreaming but think to ur self that (what, where ever) u r is real intend ur destination

the most poerfull things wile dreaming are clarity, attention, intent, no fear, faith in one's own self.
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Potential
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« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2005, 09:41:59 »

My method for converting LDs into OBEs is that in the LD, I just concentrate on my third eye area, the dream disappears, all is left is the blackness, I feel the consciousness pull up to the third eye area, connect it to the top of head, feel the pop, feel the vibes, then I come out.
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« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2005, 09:43:53 »

Quote from: Potential
TIBETAN YOGA
AND SECRET DOCTRINES

BOOK III
THE PATH OF KNOWLEDGE: THE YOGA OF THE SIX DOCTRINES

CHAPTER III: THE DOCTRINE OF THE DREAM-STATE


(1) The third doctrine, concerning the Dream-state, consisteth
of four parts: Comprehending; Transmuting; Realizing the Dream-
state to be Maya; and meditating on the Thatness of the dream-
state.

[PART I: COMPREHENDING THE NATURE OF THE DREAM-STATE]

(2) The first part, Comprehending [the nature of the Dream-
state] compriseth three practices: Comprehending it by the Power
of Resolution, Comprehending it by the Power of Breath, and
Comprehending it by the Power of Visualization.

[Practice I: Comprehending It By The Power of Resolution]

(3) With respect to the first, Comprehending it by the Power
of Resolution, that which has been called 'the initial
comprehending of the dream', referreth to resolving to maintain
unbroken continuity of consciousness [throughout both the waking-
state and the dream-state].
(4) In other words, under all conditions during the day [or
waking-state] hold to the concept that all things are of the
substance of dreams and that thou must realize their true nature.
(5) Then, at night, when about to sleep, pray to the Guru that
thou mayest be enabled to comprehend the dream-state; and firmly
resolve that thou wilt comprehend it. By meditating thusly, one is
certain to comprehend it.
(6) It hath further been said [in this connection]: 'All
things are the result of causes; they depend wholly upon
resolutions [or motives]'

[PRACTICE 2: COMPREHENDING IT BY THE POWER OF BREATH]

(7) In the second practice, Comprehending it by the Power of
Breath, the methods are: Sleep on the right side, as a lion doth.
With the thumb and the ring-finger of the right hand press the
pulsation of the throat arteries; stop the nostrils with the
fingers [of the left hand] ; and let the saliva collect in the
throat. {As a result of these methods, the yogin enjoys as vivid
consciousness in the dream-state as in the waking-state; and in
passing from one state to another experiences no break in the
continuity of memory. Thereby the content of the dream-state is
found to be quite the same as the content of the waking-state, in
that it is wholly phenomenal and therefore illusory...}

[PRACTICE 3: COMPREHENDING IT BY THE POWER OF VISUALIZATION]

(Cool The third practice, Comprehending it by the Power of
Visualization, consisteth of these processes: The visualization
itself; deriving the Greatest Benefit from the Visualization; And
preventing the Spreading-out of the Dream-Content (this last
process refers to overcoming the tendency of dreams to lose their
coherence, or to be lost to memory upon waking.).

[THE VISUALIZATION ITSELF]

(9) In the first, the Visualization Itself, the method is as
followeth:
Thinking that thou art thyself the deity Vajra-Yogini,
visualize in the throat psychic-center the syllable AH, red of
colour and vividly radiant, as being the real embodiment of Divine
Speech. (Midway between the heart psychic-center and that of the
throat, in a space about four inches long, a tube-like psychic-
organ is said to exist. If the vital force be quiescent within it,
sleep ensues; and if the vital-force be in motion within it, dreams
occur. Hence the visualization chiefly concerns the throat
psychic-center.)
(10) By mentally concentrating on the radiance of the AH, and
recognizing every phenomenal thing to be in essence like forms
reflected in a mirror, which, though apparent, have no real
existence of themselves, one comprehendeth the dream.

[DERIVING THE GREATEST BENEFIT FROM THE VISUALIZATION]

(11) In the second, for Deriving the Greatest Benefit from the
Visualization, the method is as followeth:
At nightfall, [strive to] comprehend the nature of the dream-
state by means of the visualization just described above. At dawn
practice the pot-shaped breathing seven times. Resolve [or try]
eleven times to comprehend the nature of the dream-state. Then
concentrate the mind upon a dot, like unto a bony substance, white
of colour, situated between the eyebrows. (The visualization of the
dot is, in this practice, chiefly for the purpose of attaining
mental concentration, or one-pointedness of mind.)
(12) If one be of plethoric temperament, the dot is to be
visualized as being red of colour; If one be of nervous
temperament, the dot is to be visualized as being green of colour.
(13) If by these means the nature of the dream-state be not
comprehended, then proceed as followeth:
At nightfall meditate upon the dot. In the morning practice
twenty-one 'pot-shaped' breathings. Make twenty-one resolves (or
efforts) to comprehend the nature of the dream-state. Then, by
concentrating the mind on a black dot, the size of an ordinary
pill, as being situated at the base of the generative organ, one
will be enabled to comprehend the nature of the dream-state.

[PREVENTING THE SPREADING OUT OF THE DREAM CONTENT]

(14) Preventing the Spreading-out of the Dream-Content hath
four divisions: The Spreading-out into the Waking-State, the
Spreading-out because of Fatigue [from the exercises], the
Spreading-out because of Physical or Mental Affliction, and the
Spreading-out into negativeness.
(15) The Spreading-out into the Waking-state occureth when one
is about to comprehend the dream, in view of thinking that it must
be comprehended, and then waketh up.
(16) The antidote for this is to eat nutritious food and to
perform bodily work [or exercise] until fatigued. Thereby sleep
becometh deeper; and that cureth it.
(17) The Spreading-out because of fatigue occurreth when a
dream recurreth frequently without any change of content.
(18) The antidote here is to meditate often upon that dream
and to resolve most firmly to comprehend its essential nature;
amalgamating in the process the 'pot-shaped' breathing-exercise
with the visualization of the dot between the eyebrows. (The
purpose of this combination of exercises is to gain better control
of the mind, for indomitable mental control prevents and cures all
the various spreadings-out of the content of the dream.)
(19) The Spreading-out because of Physical or Mental
affliction occureth when one dreameth many dreams and recollecteth
nothing of them upon waking.
(20) The antidote here is to avoid pollutions and impurities,
to take the initiation of Samadhi, and to visualize the dot as
being inside the root of the organ of generation. Thereby this
spreading-out will be cured.
(21) The spreading-out into Negativeness is the
disinclination of dreams to come.
(22) To overcome this, visualize, whilst meditating upon the
'pot-shaped', the dot as being in the root of the generative organ;
and, in particular, with propitiatory offerings the Viras and the
Dakinis.

[PART II: TRANSMUTING THE DREAM-CONTENT]

(23) In the second part, the Transmutating, as it is called,
the process is as followeth:
If, for example, the dream be about fire, think, 'what fear
can there be of fire which ocurreth in a dream!' Holding to this
thought, trample upon the fire. tread under foot whatever be
dreamt.
(24) After having gained proficiency in this, then turn the
thought to the various Buddha Realms [thinking that they are
attainable].
(25) Accordingly, when about to sleep, visualize a red dot as
being within the throat psychic-center, and firmly believe that
thereby thou shalt see whichever of these realms thou desirest to
see, with all its characteristics, most vividly.

(26) By concentrating the mind thus, one beholdeth the Buddha
Realm which one hath wished to behold--The Tush:ta Heaven, or the
Happy Western realm. or that called 'Happy to Know', or any other
of the realms.
(27) This practice serveth as a test of efficiency [in the art
of transmuting dreams.
(28)

[PART III: REALIZING THE DREAM-STATE, OR DREAM-CONTENT, TO BE MAYA]

(28) The third part, Realizing the Dream-State [or Dream-
Content] to be Maya, hath been expounded as followeth:

'At the outset, in the process of realizing it to be Maya,
abandon all feelings of fear [or dread];
And, if the dream be of fire, transform the fire into water,
the antidote of fire.
And if the dream be of minute objects, transform them into
large objects;
Or if the dream be of large objects, transform them into small
objects:
Thereby one comprehendeth the nature of dimensions.
And if the dream be of a single thing, transform it into many
things;
Or if the dream be of many things, transform them into a
single thing:
[Thereby one comprehendeth the nature of plurality and of unity.]
Continue such practices until thoroughly proficient in them.'

(29) Then by visualizing one's own body as seen in the dream-
state, and all other bodies similarly seen, as being Maya-like
bodies of deities, they will be realized to be so.

[PART IV: MEDITATING UPON THE THATNESS OF THE DREAM-STATE]

(30) The fourth part, meditating upon the Thatness of the
Dream-State, is, as hath been said, 'to meditate upon the real
essence of the thatness'; And thereby, the dream propensities,
whence arise whatever is seen in dreams as appearances of deities,
are purified.
(31) By concentrating the mind upon the forms of the deities
seen in the dream-state, and by keeping the mind free of thoughts,
in the quiescent condition, the forms of the deities are attuned to
the non-thought condition of mind; and thereby dawneth the Clear
Light, of which the essence is of the Voidness.
(32) If one attain mastery of this process, then, whether in
the sleeping-state or in the waking-state, one realizeth both
states to be illusory [ in so far as their content are concerned];
and all phenomenon will be known to be born of the Clear Light
[which is the noumenal reality sustaining the Maya],

[Here endeth The Doctrine of Dreams.]
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2005, 15:48:32 »

Here are some more techniques I found in the internet. I hadn't a chance to try them yet but thought I'd share them anyway. If anybody tries one out please report your experience, thanks.

1)
Quote
"Please be forewarned that I have not checked spelling or grammer in this...


  What is  found in this  document is a method  that has, for some  time now, worked
very  well for  me. Unfortunately, I do not know if  this method works  as a trigger
just for me, so I've decided to release it to the public. Hopefully people will find
it works well for them as well.

  To begin with, I'd like to quickly explain a little about a herb named Salvia
Divinorum. Please don't make any false assumptions, the actual method has little to
do with Salvia, however, knowledge of it is needed.

  Salvia  Divinorum  is an herb used  by the  Mazatechs to induce  visions and allow
shamen to travel to 'the  shamens world'. Use of  a relatively large  dose of Salvia
will  distort the  real world, however, upon  closing  your eyes, the user  will  be
flooded  with  different  colored shapes  and patterns, moving  and twisting  around.
After this, the user  actually begins  to see  vivid imagery and  can live the  life
as someone else, somewhere  else, at a  different time. Salvia has been  labeled the
substitute for Astral Projection, however, the two experiences are not the same.

  The  method is  simple and straight  forward, but it requires  being lucid in your
dream. If you do not have the skill of becomming lucid in your dreams yet, you won't
be able to do the following steps.

  So you've become lucid, what's next? Sit down  in a chair  somewhere near by. Tell
yourself you've just taken  Salvia sometime  in the  close past (five minutes or so).
If  you've ever  experienced Salvia, you may even feel a few of the  effects comming
on. Now lean  back and close  your eyes. Watch for any  patterns or colors  that may
appear. Very soon after, vivid imagery should start to appear, for a very short time.
Within ten seconds of closing your eyes, you should start hearing the  buzzing noise
that accompanies  astral projection. Personal  experience : Do not let this frighten
you the slightest bit, or you will fail to Astral Project.

  At this point  you will  actually find that  you are going back and  forth between
the  dream world  and real life. This  is really tough to  explain, and my memory at
this point in  time  is hazy (as  I'm sure it will  be for you). Continue  with your
eyes closed  in dream, and don't  think about anything that you're  experiencing too
much. Just  tell  yourself  that you  want  to leave your body  temporarily. At this
point, you will probably  not even be dreaming  anymore, but in a deep  trance state
which is extremely easy to leave your body in.

  Hopefully  this method works  well for you. I guess  you could say it's  a way  of
turning a deep  sleep into a deep trance  from within  your dream. Maybe  everything
that  I do  here is  irrelivent. Maybe the only  thing that has to be  done is  this
change in  concsiousness  while sleeping, but  the salvia  method works well  for me.
Maybe you will find something that works better for you.

 
  This is a recall of my first time doing this  method. This was not the  first time
I had ever Astral  Projected, but  the buzzing  still screwed me up, because  it was
so unexpected at the time.

In my dream, after closing my eyes while sitting in a chair with a few of my friends
nearby, I saw a black and  purple spiral, spinning  around just like I have  seen on
Salvia. This  was  all on a  black  background, so there  weren't very  many visuals,
only this spiral.

  I began to get vivid flashes of random images within 5 seconds  of closing my eyes
(in the dream). The come on was fast, and I assume this is because I'm already asleep.
The vivid images flashed  for a bit. The only actual  image I remember seeing was an
ocean sunset from a bridge over a stream.

  After about two seconds (so I'm rougly estimating 7 seconds after closing eyes), I
began  to  hear the  famous 'buzzing' or 'static' noise that comes  along  with  the
beginning of an Astral Projection. It  was going directly into both my  ears, and my
body begain to feel light. Along with the buzzing came the sleep paralasys. As I sat
in my chair, desperately  trying  to move due to  panicking, I scrunched  up my face.
Suddenly, I saw vivid images of my body in  real life, real  time, with my  face all
scrunched  up on my bed, and me trying to move my body. I was experienceing the same
feelings  in the dream  as I  was in real  life. It  was almost as  if it  was  dual
conciousness. I went back and forth between the dream and the real world a few times
before I managed to get out of the feeling.

  After  thinking  about it, I  realized that the  buzzing and  paralysis I  wasn't
used to feeling at that time scared me, and I panicked. There seemed to be, at this
point, some duality in conciousness between my dream and the real world.

  I have attempted this method lately, and it has worked out quite well for me, but
as I say, it may just be a trigger for my brain. Hopefully you'll get something out
of this document, maybe even an Astral Projection
. "

Quote
2)
Just flying upwards at a very fast rate did it for me, several times. Smiley?
Weeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Quote
3)"Personally I have had quite a few experiences from the Lucid Dream state, I will list what has worked for me.

-Simply stating the intention saying “Astral Project” After that I feel a change in awareness it sharpens and I feel lighter and usually the scene changes.

-Asking a question, or making a statement “I want to see everything!” has worked.

-Again mentally saying wile flying “I wish to OBE in real time and space” opposed to the dream environment.

-Sitting and meditating in the dream until it ends at which time you enter the black void and can do as you please.

-Being shot through the heart and feeling death, not so nice but it did work.

Well that’s just a few ways I have triggered an Astral Projection."

Quote
4)"Look for a bathroom mirror in your dream.You can find mirrors in washrooms if you are in a public place, youcan also find them in peoples house if you are lucid outdoors, or make one on a wall. The bigger the mirror the better, the faster you enter the mirror the better. You have to wait for your reflection to appear. Then say "Increase lucidity 100 %" and press yourself into your reflection. Your lucid dream will end right then and their. I can not say what type of OBE you will have, but I can say You wont be disapointed."
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-St John of the Cross
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2005, 15:49:31 »

Here are some more techniques I found in the Internet. I hadn't a chance to try them yet but thought I'd share them anyway. If anybody tries one out please report your experience, thanks.

1)
Quote
"Please be forewarned that I have not checked spelling or grammer in this...


  What is  found in this  document is a method  that has, for some  time now, worked
very  well for  me. Unfortunately, I do not know if  this method works  as a trigger
just for me, so I've decided to release it to the public. Hopefully people will find
it works well for them as well.

  To begin with, I'd like to quickly explain a little about a herb named Salvia
Divinorum. Please don't make any false assumptions, the actual method has little to
do with Salvia, however, knowledge of it is needed.

  Salvia  Divinorum  is an herb used  by the  Mazatechs to induce  visions and allow
shamen to travel to 'the  shamens world'. Use of  a relatively large  dose of Salvia
will  distort the  real world, however, upon  closing  your eyes, the user  will  be
flooded  with  different  colored shapes  and patterns, moving  and twisting  around.
After this, the user  actually begins  to see  vivid imagery and  can live the  life
as someone else, somewhere  else, at a  different time. Salvia has been  labeled the
substitute for Astral Projection, however, the two experiences are not the same.

  The  method is  simple and straight  forward, but it requires  being lucid in your
dream. If you do not have the skill of becomming lucid in your dreams yet, you won't
be able to do the following steps.

  So you've become lucid, what's next? Sit down  in a chair  somewhere near by. Tell
yourself you've just taken  Salvia sometime  in the  close past (five minutes or so).
If  you've ever  experienced Salvia, you may even feel a few of the  effects comming
on. Now lean  back and close  your eyes. Watch for any  patterns or colors  that may
appear. Very soon after, vivid imagery should start to appear, for a very short time.
Within ten seconds of closing your eyes, you should start hearing the  buzzing noise
that accompanies  astral projection. Personal  experience : Do not let this frighten
you the slightest bit, or you will fail to Astral Project.

  At this point  you will  actually find that  you are going back and  forth between
the  dream world  and real life. This  is really tough to  explain, and my memory at
this point in  time  is hazy (as  I'm sure it will  be for you). Continue  with your
eyes closed  in dream, and don't  think about anything that you're  experiencing too
much. Just  tell  yourself  that you  want  to leave your body  temporarily. At this
point, you will probably  not even be dreaming  anymore, but in a deep  trance state
which is extremely easy to leave your body in.

  Hopefully  this method works  well for you. I guess  you could say it's  a way  of
turning a deep  sleep into a deep trance  from within  your dream. Maybe  everything
that  I do  here is  irrelivent. Maybe the only  thing that has to be  done is  this
change in  concsiousness  while sleeping, but  the salvia  method works well  for me.
Maybe you will find something that works better for you.

 
  This is a recall of my first time doing this  method. This was not the  first time
I had ever Astral  Projected, but  the buzzing  still screwed me up, because  it was
so unexpected at the time.

In my dream, after closing my eyes while sitting in a chair with a few of my friends
nearby, I saw a black and  purple spiral, spinning  around just like I have  seen on
Salvia. This  was  all on a  black  background, so there  weren't very  many visuals,
only this spiral.

  I began to get vivid flashes of random images within 5 seconds  of closing my eyes
(in the dream). The come on was fast, and I assume this is because I'm already asleep.
The vivid images flashed  for a bit. The only actual  image I remember seeing was an
ocean sunset from a bridge over a stream.

  After about two seconds (so I'm rougly estimating 7 seconds after closing eyes), I
began  to  hear the  famous 'buzzing' or 'static' noise that comes  along  with  the
beginning of an Astral Projection. It  was going directly into both my  ears, and my
body begain to feel light. Along with the buzzing came the sleep paralasys. As I sat
in my chair, desperately  trying  to move due to  panicking, I scrunched  up my face.
Suddenly, I saw vivid images of my body in  real life, real  time, with my  face all
scrunched  up on my bed, and me trying to move my body. I was experienceing the same
feelings  in the dream  as I  was in real  life. It  was almost as  if it  was  dual
conciousness. I went back and forth between the dream and the real world a few times
before I managed to get out of the feeling.

  After  thinking  about it, I  realized that the  buzzing and  paralysis I  wasn't
used to feeling at that time scared me, and I panicked. There seemed to be, at this
point, some duality in conciousness between my dream and the real world.

  I have attempted this method lately, and it has worked out quite well for me, but
as I say, it may just be a trigger for my brain. Hopefully you'll get something out
of this document, maybe even an Astral Projection
. "

Quote
2)
Just flying upwards at a very fast rate did it for me, several times. Smiley?
Weeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Quote
3)"Personally I have had quite a few experiences from the Lucid Dream state, I will list what has worked for me.

-Simply stating the intention saying “Astral Project” After that I feel a change in awareness it sharpens and I feel lighter and usually the scene changes.

-Asking a question, or making a statement “I want to see everything!” has worked.

-Again mentally saying wile flying “I wish to OBE in real time and space” opposed to the dream environment.

-Sitting and meditating in the dream until it ends at which time you enter the black void and can do as you please.

-Being shot through the heart and feeling death, not so nice but it did work.

Well that’s just a few ways I have triggered an Astral Projection."

Quote
4)"Look for a bathroom mirror in your dream.You can find mirrors in washrooms if you are in a public place, youcan also find them in peoples house if you are lucid outdoors, or make one on a wall. The bigger the mirror the better, the faster you enter the mirror the better. You have to wait for your reflection to appear. Then say "Increase lucidity 100 %" and press yourself into your reflection. Your lucid dream will end right then and their. I can not say what type of OBE you will have, but I can say You wont be disapointed."
Logged

" In order to arrive at a place you do not know you must go by a way you do not know "

-St John of the Cross
scarecrow
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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2005, 11:01:47 »

What an excellent thread!

Tombo, in answer to your reformulated question Smiley I would just like to add that apart from the times that I find AP occurring by itself (which isn't as often as I'd like), the best way for me to get into AP simply from a dream/lucid dream is to WANT to do it and to prepare for it before I have even gone to sleep. I know that sounds like an obvious thing to say but if something has been troubling me then (as with most people) I can either give myself a sleepless night over it or I can prepare myself to "fix" it during my sleep.

As an example I have gone to bed deciding that I wanted to resolve the inner anger that I seem to carry around with me and an amazing yet very scary AP ensued from which I managed to resolve a couple of issues.

Even if nothing is currently troubling you, focusing on wanting to get to know yourself better, improving yourself and to get to the root cause of any problems you may have (whether you are aware of them or not) tends to make dreams clearer (for me at least), which itself increases the chance of turning it into AP.

Doesn't always work though. Smiley
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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2005, 11:35:38 »

Good you like the thread! I started to doubt if it was a good idea to make it a sticky  rolleyes

Quote
Even if nothing is currently troubling you, focusing on wanting to get to know yourself better, improving yourself and to get to the root cause of any problems you may have (whether you are aware of them or not) tends to make dreams clearer (for me at least), which itself increases the chance of turning it into AP.


Interesting Technique!
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-St John of the Cross
Elew
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« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2005, 20:08:20 »

Ok, here's something I shared with a friend while trying to explain the ways I use to reach a dream walk/LD -->OBE. Don't laugh now  wink   Remember, I had no help along the way and had to make this stuff up...but I wanted to run it by you all and ask you if it rings a bell at all. It works, so I'm sure it goes by many names now and there must be an easier way to do this. My friend mentioned Theta Undertones. I had never heard of these before, but I think I'll be learning about them soon...

It's something I don't know if anyone really does, but I have always done it and I think it helps...humming, but with something. A motor of some kind works well. I discovered this in a radio station with the ticker-tape machine, it's large (but I was small) and you can feel/hear the vibration. So, a large machine, or at least one you can feel the vibration of when it's running. If you can, put your back on it and feel the sound vibration. Then hum it's same note, and then try an octave above/ below till you find one that's easy for you and remains in harmony. And then the tricky part is to hold that note clear, then shift your voice to almost a flat. If you can do this it will create a swirling buzzing which is the meeting of your voice and the machine vibration. I know this sounds odd, but it's just the way I learned it. Then when I'm in a LD I can recall the buzzing feeling and it helps me get beyond/outside the dream. The void space between can be darkness, but for me it seems to be more of a 3D whiteness.

Once I had a friend who used to go sit in a gallery with me and sing. (I'm no great singer, I'm just fascinated with sound vibration) We were friends with the artists and we could go in any time it was empty. There was a skylight, but it was way up high in a...well I don't know how to explain it, but if you were to go under it and look up it would look like a long rectangle box with the window at the other end. But we would play with the sound there and if she would hold a note I could shift my voice and the buzzing was incredible. You can feel it all through you. It's this same vibration which can bring you places. So if this rings any bells, I would greatly appreciate knowing what this is really called, if there is such a thing... Your thoughts?
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