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Author Topic: memory consolidation(s)?  (Read 997 times)
madmagus
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« on: June 13, 2019, 22:38:05 »

This thread was spurred by the conversation in my adjacent dream memory thread.  The scientific perspective for dreaming that I most often run into is that dreaming is about memory consolidation, a way for our mind to properly order our experiences in long-term memory from our daily experiences. 

I've also read on numerous occasions of people who awaken from coma speaking fluently in other languages.  No one has given much of an explanation for this.  What if the scientists are right in one respect?  What if we do indeed use dreams as a consolidation method, only the memories we are accessing to consolidate are not 'all' from our current time line (dimension)?  This would also explain why we have so many dreams that are snippets of what seem to be past events, only the events are tweaked in ways that are not correct from your memories.  But what if they are correct from another time line?

This would explain quite easily the coma patient with a new language.  During the coma, or from whatever trauma put him/her into the coma, something shifted in their mind that allowed a memory from another time line to infiltrate the current time line.  The patient taps into one of the alternate realities that their other 'Self' exists in and wholly downloads the knowledge of the other language.  Call it a cross-wired event.

The patient doesn't pull the entire personality of the other 'Self'; they just download a section.  Why language rather than something else, who knows.  (ooh, schizophrenics with multiple personalities?)

It is said that if we are not allowed to dream that over time we go insane.  Perhaps what is happening is that we are not being allowed to properly consolidate our various 'selves' by incorporating the events, the learning events, that are being stored during our dreams.  We essentially fragment, and without the defragmenting protocalls of dreaming, we can no longer properly access our memory functions, just as a computer will slow down over time if the hard drive is not defragged to properly order its memories.  Our brain is just a bio-computer, after all, that is accessed by our consciousness.

I'm just thinking out loud here.  As stated, these thoughts ran through my head after getting interesting input from Szaxx, Lumasa, and EV on the last thread.
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EscapeVelocity
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2019, 09:52:37 »

madmagus, this is an excellent extension of your previous thread and a topic I hope can spur some discussion. Over the last several years, my own thinking about this has traveled similar lines of thought. Decades ago, I read some works by La Berge and Garfield and much of their dream exploration opened me to some of these questions.

I remember reading of a psychology experiment back in the early '70's involving college students and REM deprivation. If I recall (somewhat) correctly, the experiment involved waking the students any time they exhibited REM signals. They could have all the non-REM sleep they wanted, just not the supposed dreaming part. The experiment was to last something like ten days to two weeks. Well, it was apparently abandoned after 4-5 days as the REM-deprived students began displaying increasing signs of neurotic and borderline psychotic behavior...it got to the point where every time a student fell back into sleep, they went almost instantly into REM and dream state, whereupon they were supposed to be reawakened. The facilitators quickly realized they would have serious problems the longer they pushed the experiment.

I have long had thoughts about what is occurring during sleep with dream dysfunctionality and particularly REM deprivation, having gone through it myself many times. But it has become an especially acute problem for me the last nearly ten years culminating in a few episodes the last year which seemed to go 'off the chart'. Maybe this is also part of the NP learning process; or maybe just my personal lessons within it. During business trips, I often cannot sleep the first couple days; even during vacation-like trips, I have trouble. These, I can get through, but they are seriously bothersome. Often I get significant NP experiences. The sleep/dream deprivation then becomes just another of several NP techniques, although in my opinion, an effective but difficult one. During two of my three week-long courses at The Monroe Institute (TMI), I was unable to sleep for the first three nights; the fourth night an hour, the fifth two hours, etc. This wasn't a fault of TMI's, it was purely a personal thing with me. And despite numerous over-the-counter and even prescribed sleep medications, they did nothing for me. At a certain point, I began to accept the condition and explore it for what experience it was providing me. I found that I reached a kind of threshold level- Every night I was getting the opportunity for rest and relaxation, but my mind was not shutting down. This brought about a minimal physical recovery with an increasing degree of mental exhaustion and a degree of emotional emergency, but it felt like I reached a 'threshold point' where the physical and mental exhaustion stabilized and I discovered a new operating level for myself. It's hard to put into words and wasn't fully realized until a couple months later where I was in a physically higher-stressed environment and could not sleep for five days yet still had to physically work a 14 hour day. And I found that 'operating level' again and realized it could continue for an extended period of time. For me, it provided a new perspective on awareness and dreaming. In each of these experiences, the several moments that I did drop into sleep, I instantly went into REM and usually lucid awareness...mostly uncontrolled, as all I wanted to do was sleep...and then Bang! I was awake again.

It occurred to me several years ago, the similarity of how our human minds operate compared to how we have designed computers. Just separating the idea of the mind versus the physical brain, is a discussion for another thread. But the idea of the necessity for 'de-fragging' both a computer and the mind becomes evident in our experience, and ordering and consolidating our experiences seems pretty apparent; along with discarding the unnecessary debris. Not that every night is the same, but often it seems that the first REM period gives us what I call 'house-cleaning' type dreams, sometimes we are literally cleaning house or sorting through rooms, arranging things, looking for things misplaced. These or the next set of dreams often involve local emotional conflicts- the stuff we dealt with at work or during the last few days. This pattern seems to continue throughout our sleep period, gradually moving to deeper and longer-term emotional and relational issues; family stuff. This pattern may persist until morning or we may actually move into deeper, highly-metaphorical and far-ranging personal exploration, even some NP explorations right up to the point of final awakening.

Again, this pattern can change and many of us have found NP experiences and Instructional Simulations thrown in anywhere within this mess at any time.

Coma patients with new abilities having tapped into past/parallel lives...schizophrenics inadvertently tapping into the same...yeah, I have thought along similar lines.

Great thread madmagus! 

 
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2019, 09:52:37 »

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Lumaza
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2019, 01:29:09 »

madmagus, this is an excellent extension of your previous thread and a topic I hope can spur some discussion. Over the last several years, my own thinking about this has traveled similar lines of thought. Decades ago, I read some works by La Berge and Garfield and much of their dream exploration opened me to some of these questions.
Madmagus, I second EV's statement above. This is a excellent extension of your previous thread and one that I wish we had talked about here years ago.


Quote
I have long had thoughts about what is occurring during sleep with dream dysfunctionality and particularly REM deprivation, having gone through it myself many times. But it has become an especially acute problem for me the last nearly ten years culminating in a few episodes the last year which seemed to go 'off the chart'. Maybe this is also part of the NP learning process; or maybe just my personal lessons within it. During business trips, I often cannot sleep the first couple days; even during vacation-like trips, I have trouble. These, I can get through, but they are seriously bothersome. Often I get significant NP experiences. The sleep/dream deprivation then becomes just another of several NP techniques, although in my opinion, an effective but difficult one. During two of my three week-long courses at The Monroe Institute (TMI), I was unable to sleep for the first three nights; the fourth night an hour, the fifth two hours, etc. This wasn't a fault of TMI's, it was purely a personal thing with me. And despite numerous over-the-counter and even prescribed sleep medications, they did nothing for me. At a certain point, I began to accept the condition and explore it for what experience it was providing me. I found that I reached a kind of threshold level- Every night I was getting the opportunity for rest and relaxation, but my mind was not shutting down. This brought about a minimal physical recovery with an increasing degree of mental exhaustion and a degree of emotional emergency, but it felt like I reached a 'threshold point' where the physical and mental exhaustion stabilized and I discovered a new operating level for myself. It's hard to put into words and wasn't fully realized until a couple months later where I was in a physically higher-stressed environment and could not sleep for five days yet still had to physically work a 14 hour day. And I found that 'operating level' again and realized it could continue for an extended period of time. For me, it provided a new perspective on awareness and dreaming. In each of these experiences, the several moments that I did drop into sleep, I instantly went into REM and usually lucid awareness...mostly uncontrolled, as all I wanted to do was sleep...and then Bang! I was awake again.

It occurred to me several years ago, the similarity of how our human minds operate compared to how we have designed computers. Just separating the idea of the mind versus the physical brain, is a discussion for another thread. But the idea of the necessity for 'de-fragging' both a computer and the mind becomes evident in our experience, and ordering and consolidating our experiences seems pretty apparent; along with discarding the unnecessary debris. Not that every night is the same, but often it seems that the first REM period gives us what I call 'house-cleaning' type dreams, sometimes we are literally cleaning house or sorting through rooms, arranging things, looking for things misplaced. These or the next set of dreams often involve local emotional conflicts- the stuff we dealt with at work or during the last few days. This pattern seems to continue throughout our sleep period, gradually moving to deeper and longer-term emotional and relational issues; family stuff. This pattern may persist until morning or we may actually move into deeper, highly-metaphorical and far-ranging personal exploration, even some NP explorations right up to the point of final awakening.

Again, this pattern can change and many of us have found NP experiences and Instructional Simulations thrown in anywhere within this mess at any time.
So, many great points made above. As usual EV, you were both informative and articulate in your delivery!  smiley

 I have found that "everything" in our lives happens for a reason. I developed Trigeminal Neuralgia a few years, during what I could call at the time, my "peak" with my NP explorations. I thought it was a curse. Every time I went to close my eyes and go to sleep the Trigeminal Nerves would become inflamed and cause spasms. This kept me Lucid for hours while attempting to fall asleep. This also led to a understanding of Tibetan Dream Yoga. I would be conscious not only into the first Dream cycle, but actually a number of Dream cycles. I saw that my first Dreams had to deal with what I was experiencing in the "now", as in, what my activities of the day or even the last few weeks were. Chores I had to do, etc. My next cycle had to deal with the "past". Reliving past pleasant and not so pleasant experiences, personal (deep) healing. From there I moved onto a "anything goes" cycle, where as the phrase says, "anything goes". Then came the "other". This was more directed at helping others, as in "recovery/Retrieval/Hero" experiences. Every cycle had it's own level of "teachings" and lessons. I would wake up in the morning/afternoon and immediately log my nightly experiences. After a few years of this, I don't log them anymore, unless I find them to be incredibly bizarre. Then comes the "other". This category, I find has to do with experiences of a "unearthly" level. This is where the real training, per se, occurs.

 This has also led to experiences of actual OBEs, in the true sense of what a OBE is, "Out of Body Experiences", whereas I am completely consciously aware that I am "exiting" my physical form, in more of "etheric"/real time experience. Those experiences are usually the same, with me awaking just before SP or during it. Sometimes I will just become aware of the "Astral winds" or mild vibrational waves approaching. A full exit doesn't usually occur until the Astral winds and vibrations become a constant. Then there is usually a raising of my legs/tug on my ankles. Next, I am out. I can set and intent and go, but usually I just try to be a observer and find out the "whys" of the exit. I have slowed the process down and done all kinds of experimenting on it. I have attempted to strengthen the vibrations or sounds. Many times I have purposely "aborted" the exit just to see what happens next or log something important about it in my Journals.

 I find all kinds of patterns in my experiences. These patterns have completely opened me up to discussions on "parallel universes". Constantly I find myself in areas where I am known to those there, but I have  no clue who these people/entities are or where I even am. My family/friends are usually different. The situations I find myself are completely foreign to me as well.

 All of this was revealed from the onset of Trigeminal Neuralgia. I believe that it has been more of a blessing, than a curse. It can still be quite painful though!  sad

 At first, I would become Lucid and immediately wake up. Then I went through a period of becoming Lucid in the "simulations" and trying to alter the scenario I was experiencing. Many times that led to a failure and immediate physical awakening. But, this also led to immediate "reboots", where I woke up and found myself back in the same experience over and over again. Then I learned to just "observe", without reacting. After awhile, I would know when it was time to engage in the scenario. I use this same process when I do my daily Phase sessions too.
 I would have many experiences that would result in what I call "re-scripting". This re-scripting though, didn't seem like it was being initiated by me, at least at the conscious level I was at the time. It always led to some sort of lesson or teaching. It could happen as many times as it would need to, for me to finally get it right. I have questioned many times, who was judging whether I got it right or not. This led me to the conclusion after awhile there is some kind of "system" or management/Overseer at play here.

 After a few years now, this has become "automatic". I keep the fact that I know I am in a "Dream simulation" in the back of my mind. I know what it is occurring, but I completely engage in the experience/scenario at hand.

 I still use almost the same nightly affirmation that I developed years ago. It has undergone some minor tweaks. Here it is for those that wish to hear it. You don't need to use mine. Mine works for me because I tailored it to me. The main point is the "intent". Also, you must say your affirmation in a "already done" mindset. Here's mine.
 "By my act of will I "RELEASE" my focus over my physical body. "PLEASE TAKE ME" to your desired destination. "SHOW ME" what I need to "SEE". "PLEASE TEACH ME" what I "NEED TO LEARN". I am "CONSCIOUSLY AWARE, KNOWING" my physical body is lying safely in my bed. "I LEARN" from, "ENJOY" and have full "MEMORY" of them when I awaken for the day."
 
 All the words in capitals above, I visualize completely, letter by letter. That affirmation may seem lengthy, but only while you are reading it. It really doesn't take much time at all. It works for me though and that's all that's important.

Quote
Great thread madmagus!  
Once again, I second EV, "great thread"!  cool smiley
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 01:24:41 by Lumaza » Logged

“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."  Nicolai Tesla
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2019, 18:22:06 »

 grin
yes, nice thread.
not much for me to add, love reading your thoughts. BTW my dreamcatchers are starting ti take shape .... coming soon on this channel rolleyes wink
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Nameless
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2019, 10:23:37 »

Interesting and entertaining thoughts Madmagus. I tend to feel pretty much the same way as you, EV, Lumaza and Szaxx. If/when I come up with something intelligent to add I'll be back. Great conversation.
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2019, 10:23:37 »



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Szaxx
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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2019, 18:22:00 »

Quote;
This would also explain why we have so many dreams that are snippets of what seem to be past events, only the events are tweaked in ways that are not correct from your memories.  But what if they are correct from another time line?

This is a tad one sided, some of us have had dreams of future events where the precision is overwhelming. Nobody has explained these satisfactorily. I've been searching for answers for over 40 years. A mysterious concept indeed.
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Volgerle
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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2019, 20:29:55 »

I feel inclined to give your letter visualisation of your affirmatory statement a try, Lumaza.

Quote
"By my act of will I "RELEASE" my focus over my physical body. "PLEASE TAKE ME" to your desired destination. "SHOW ME" what I need to "SEE". "PLEASE TEACH ME" what I "NEED TO LEARN". I am "CONSCIOUSLY AWARE, KNOWING" my physical body is lying safely in my bed. "I LEARN" from, "ENJOY" and have full "MEMORY" of them when I awaken for the day."

Maybe even print my own version of it out and hang it on the wall over my bed (I often do similar things, e.g. with targets I wanted to reach).

Normally I always wanted to be 'in control' and set my own targets, I know we talked about this also a while ago here, maybe it is time to really try the guidance by HS thing and go with the flow whereever it carries me for educational purposes (hopefully).

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Lumaza
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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2019, 00:29:24 »

grin
yes, nice thread.
not much for me to add, love reading your thoughts. BTW my dreamcatchers are starting ti take shape .... coming soon on this channel rolleyes wink
Awesome Plume, I can't wait!  smiley cool

 This is what I have been working on lately. If you click on the pictures, you will get a description of each piece, plus a little history on the Art of Bonsai.
 https://beta.photobucket.com/u/Lionheart78/a/e67c6b48-9426-49b2-ba89-5861112d284f
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 00:52:20 by Lumaza » Logged

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