Raduga's Phase is LD-ing, not OBE!

[Pauli2]

I thought Raduga was teaching how-to-OBE and used his own label;
"The Phase" on OBEs, but apparently he is teaching some kind of LD
technique, which is NOT an OBE technique.

To Raduga, the Phase is all in the mind, and NOT related to physical reality,
not even a bad copy of reality.


From Raduga's book School of Out-of-Body Travel, page 159:

"For example, in the phase, it is not possible to fly around to locations in physical world,
although it may seem so, the locations that are experienced are produced within the mind.

Nor is it possible to pinch someone in the phase and then to find a bruise on the person
while in reality."


I find this very interesting, as I thought Raduga was teaching something else,
but to find that his method is more a kind of LD, unrelated to the RTZ, was an
eyeopener to me.

Raduga goes as far as invalidating Monroe's pinch!

The Phase - it is ONLY in the mind!

Makes me laugh.

[Xanth]

What's with the crusade, Pauli?

[Astral316]

I thought Raduga was teaching how-to-OBE and used his own label;
"The Phase" on OBEs, but apparently he is teaching some kind of LD
technique, which is NOT an OBE technique.

What is this technique that is different from an OBE technique? You go on to quote this random guy's beliefs about the "phase" but that has nothing to do with your opening statement. It doesn't even clarify a distinction between LDs and OBEs.

[Stookie_]

Pauli, I think most of us know that AP involves both subjective and objective experience, that one can seem like the other, and that a subjective experience can be turned into an objective one with some focus and control. So what are you trying to convince us of?

[Pauli2]

There is a blog entry made by Ulysses Ronquillo, who brings this matter into more light.
He knows some more facts and writes:

"...Michael Raduga. ... He does not believe that OBEs are real. ...
He believes that NDEs, alien abduction and all the rest are identical “simulations”."


When I read further, things may not be as clear cut as I first thought. In fact, it seems
that Raduga leaves the door open for OBEs to be real, but he holds a skeptic mind about
this issue.

(Also, some of the blog entry comments were insightful.)


Stookie_, The Phase method has attracted some attention and I am one of those who
has believed it to induce OBEs. I would have liked to know a little better exactly what
I was expected to experience in advance. And yes, I read the methods in the book last
year, but had difficulties with absorbing the content (perhaps due to translation?).

Assume the following.

* I read Monroe's JOOB, and wanted to figure out if I can have an OBE.
* I find a book, which uses the concept out-of-body.
* I start to practice the book's method.
* I'm very poor at the method and it also requires a lot of time from my side to get any kind of success.

I later find out that the creator of the method, doesn't consider OBEs to be real.
And the method, isn't it aimed at inducing LDs instead?

Would I have wanted in advance to know the foundation for the method? Certainly.
If my foundation was Monroe, and I later tried to use a method which could be
considered to be invalidating the Monroe path, I would have wanted to know that.

Stookie_, is that an answer to your question?

[Ssergiu]

What he actually means is that everything is simulated. Even the reality you see in an OOBE is not the real one, which is kind of true. Hardly can someone see a person in reality exactly what he or she is doing and also to be true. You're more likely to see the thoughts from that person manifesting in your OOBE. I guess he believes that OOBEs are just a thing of the mind and nothing else. However, I believe we are somehow connected, but we cannot see exactly what's going on in reality when in the Phase.

EDIT:

I later find out that the creator of the method, doesn't consider OBEs to be real.
And the method, isn't it aimed at inducing LDs instead?

No. Just because Raduga doesn't believe OOBEs are real, it does not mean his methods are for LD's and that he has never experienced OOBEs. You do not need to believe in OOBEs to experience one. Many people have OOBEs without even having ever thought about it. I can show you how to pray to God, but I can't tell you if He is real or not, but this does not mean the method I showed you was for something else.

EDIT 2:

Also, for the last time. OOBEs do not feel like LD's, they are totally different, I agree, but they, in general, are the same one thing. The awarer you become and realize it the better your experience gets, that meaning LD's turning into OOBEs. Objectively, dreams, Ld's and OOBEs are the same one thing. Subjectively, they're not. Each of them feel totally different. It is all a pie, it only depends how much sugar you put in it.

[Volgerle]

To Raduga, the Phase is all in the mind

he is right, it is all (in the) mind as consciousness is the base of all realities, where's the prob?

[Xanth]

Pretty much.
Even this physical reality happens ENTIRELY within your mind.

Everything you experience in this physical reality is just data that enters your mind via the 5 physical senses and is processed by the brain/mind/consciousness.

[ether2]

i dont know exactly what this phase is as i dont or havent read any books on phaseing or what ever ya call it i was lucky enough to be shown the minds abilities without the use of books and CD's...

but some of these pricks that teach how to raise energy/meditate etc in certain ways are stealing the energy/processes that one trys to do, it's like sexual energy vampires same shlt man thiefs ripping ya off...
anyway they are pretty well shut off now as work over the last few days clarifies this ...

BY NO-MEANS AM I MAKEING ASSUMPTIONS TO THIS PARTICULAR PROCESS!...

good luck

love all

[Summerlander]

Raduga uses the term "out of body experience" to be exactly that: an " " " EXPERIENCE.

You have to understand that he is not concretely claiming to know what it is. I have spoken to Raduga and it has come to my understanding that, from his personal experience, and the many Phasers he has come across, that he deems such experiences as PROBABLY products of the subconscious. He bases this on the fact that we literally know more than what we think we know and he holds that our minds can create environments many times better than objective reality.

He may not be a big fan of theory but he is not affirming that "it is all in the head" as the absolute truth. His experiences lead him to think it's the most likely possibility. Each one to their own, Pauli.

As for Robert Monroe...Raduga is not necessarily discrediting him. The woman Monroe pinched in the Phase was indeed bruised in actuality...but whether one of her kids pinched her while she wasn't looking or the possibility that she bruised herself prior to meeting with Monroe in order to please him is subject to debate. Even Monroe himself stated that he didn't exactly know what had taken place...

Now...recently I heard that Bedeekin has had some sort of breakthrough with the Phase state. To cut a long story short, remember my PowerPoint analogy as to how reality could be structured (inspired by Campbell's TOE)? Well, it turns out that he's been reading the TOE too and now he claims that in Slide Master, he had the "apply to all" option that allowed him to make changes to Normal View...in plain English...he reckons the nonphysical template allowed him to make direct changes to physical matter reality.

I'm dubious of his claims. Recently, I've been experiencing accurate replicas of my house - even smashed up things in my neighbours' kitchen - nothing like this happened in reality or affected the course of events in the space-time continuum in anyway, of course. Another thing I was wondering - and I'm calling Bedeekin out on this one! - if in the Phase I get Stacey's house keys from her purse (where she keeps them most of the time) and place them in the backgarden, will she suddenly say to me in waking life "honey, sometimes I put the keys outside so burglars won't find it in the house"?

I'd like to hear what other experinents he's done that made him arrive at this conclusion and have a sudden paradigm shift after 20 years of experience, or if he's just getting excited with Campbell's big toe...

I only have 3 years of experience with the Phase state...so far the only evidence I've experienced is the possibility of telepathy and precognition...never the possibility of altering physical reality.

But, me, being the open-minded sceptic that I am, will attempt to recreate such experiment...

The only thing that is making me want to explore this is the fact that I experienced "poltergeist activity" and was even "possessed" at the age of 7 (which coincided with my parents' turbulent relationship at the time and I've got my theories on this) - something that Bedeekin scoffed at when he first heard of it because he hadn't experienced it himself. I repeat, wish brings me back to the point I was trying to make in this thread...HE HADN'T EXPERIENCED IT.

Well, there you go...that's my two cents.

[Astral316]

he is right, it is all (in the) mind as consciousness is the base of all realities, where's the prob?

I'm pretty sure he's trying to put over the idea that LDs and OBEs are clear cut, metaphysically defined states of consciousness... poorly, however, because the "it's all in the mind" debate is irrelevant to proving the theory valid.

No. Just because Raduga doesn't believe OOBEs are real, it does not mean his methods are for LD's and that he has never experienced OOBEs. You do not need to believe in OOBEs to experience one. Many people have OOBEs without even having ever thought about it. I can show you how to pray to God, but I can't tell you if He is real or not, but this does not mean the method I showed you was for something else.

Spot on. Do we need to explain the difference between interpretation and truth? The latter isn't something you're going to be able to quote from a book.

[Summerlander]

BINGO, Astral!

[Pauli2]

Another thing I was wondering - and I'm calling Bedeekin out on this one!

Maybe you could start another thread on that subject?


Regarding Raduga's method, what's important to me, was if he's invalidating the
Monroe concept: "I'm more than my physical body."

If so, I would have liked to know that in advance of spending time on the Raduga method.
If the phase is only in the mind/brain/head, then there is no afterlife and nothing outside the
physical world. But perhaps Raduga has more to say on this matter?

[Summerlander]

Maybe you could start another thread on that subject?

No. Not really. I don't think it is worthy of a thread. But I will add this though (and Bedeekin will know what I'm talking about): I've been getting a six pack too! but not because I've been listening to some "oversoul" in the Phase state. I've been working out everyday. No pain no gain!

Regarding Raduga's method, what's important to me, was if he's invalidating the
Monroe concept: "I'm more than my physical body."

Raduga is not even there. In fact, Raduga is very pragmatic about this and he clearly states his thoughts on this. There is no evidence for this, but, at the same time, he doesn't rule it out.

If so, I would have liked to know that in advance of spending time on the Raduga method.
If the phase is only in the mind/brain/head, then there is no afterlife and nothing outside the
physical world. But perhaps Raduga has more to say on this matter?

uh...the afterlife...Raduga won't have much to tell you on this other than the fact that there is no real evidence for it (though he states that it is not his wish to disprove it). I had a lot to say on the matter though and I will show you what I posted there on the subject:

"The afterlife...hmmm...

I have been pondering over this concept for a long time now and if someone was to ask me if there is an afterlife, my answer would be: "Maybe". I can’t be sure even though I experience the Phase. I suspect that, when we die, we go back to being in the same state that we were before we were born, whether existent or non-existent.

Many people fantasise about an afterlife of otherworldly exploration, contact with other beings and the eventuation of their wishes. The Phase state is often surmised to be a glimpse of the immediate afterlife even though it is very much a condition of being alive in which the brain is active - more so than the delta waves of deep dreamless sleep - and the cerebral areas associated with waking states are often found to be functional during lucidity.

If death really is the cessation of being - and thus the end of experience and cognition - then it is also the end of suffering. You won’t know that you are dead, you won’t know that you are not suffering, you won’t know that you are not perceiving, and you won’t know anything. In conclusion: there is no you!

People find this hard to imagine and some even go as far as to say that such notion is more incredible than the idea of an afterlife in the spirit realms. Some even say that non-existence makes no sense. But the truth is that we were dead before we were born, alas, we already know what death is like. This could mean that death is simply going back to the pre-birth state.

Theoretically speaking, what constitutes us becomes something else which gives rise to the possibility of rebirth. I’ll use the computer analogy in that, if death means deletion of a file (sentient being), the information it contains goes in the recycle bin, where, overtime, the data that constitutes it gets reconfigured. Being absent from life or any sort of interaction is a notion that can convey a sense of much needed rest from the living perspective, but, in death, you are not even resting - you are beyond that!

When something as important as the cerebral cortex is damaged, for example, one may very easily slip into a long-term coma. Individuals who have woken up from these were oblivious to how much time had passed due to their lapse in consciousness. Because they were unaware of the time that passed while unconscious, the coma experience from their experience was losing their senses in one moment and regaining awareness the next.

Confusion manifests as soon as they become conscious and suffering usually begins when they realise how much time has passed and wonder how much they’ve missed and how things have changed. Their nightmare begins in consciousness and effort is required to get used to their newfound status of loss and overcome their problems. If death is the cessation of being, then it is also the end of all problems.

On the other hand, consciousness could survive death if we consider the possibility that the existence of “I“ is not dependent upon brain or bodily functions and that thoughts may operate on another frequency of reality. An afterlife then, would perpetuate experience and everything that comes with it. Do we tap into this hypothetical frequency of reality when we enter the Phase or is it all an illusion produced by brain chemistry and physics? Here’s an interesting story for pondering purposes:

"My stepfather Sergio was an alcoholic who developed cirrhosis. Eventually he committed suicide and I started to have a series of strange vivid dreams, one in particular where he confirmed to me that the afterlife is real. In others he seemed unhappy and appeared to carry what looked like phantom black bags attached to his torso.

Then I learned about OOBEs and I set myself the goal of making contact with him. The first contact with what seemed to be him, after having entered the Phase, seemed to show me that he was living out some fantasy in a summer landscape which looked like Portugal and the sky was deeply blue and surreal.

I had separated into what looked like my bedroom and had the urge to fly at high speed in one particular direction. I found myself in an airport hovering as a floating head. I descended into the ground and went right through it. Underground I saw people in some kind of basement and they seemed to be cooking something. Embedded in some wall, I also saw a mouse or a rat scurry past me through some passage. I wished to leave that place and found myself elsewhere. There was a room and two people asleep on a bed. I then thought that perhaps I could visit Sergio and thought about nothing but him.

I found him in the Portugal-like environment. He was driving a car really well and fast, like a kid. When he was alive he was a terrible driver. Every time he drove accidents did or almost happened. But he always wanted to drive because if he didn't he'd feel worthless as a man. My mum and him would argue over this. In my Phase experience, he drove at an incredible speed and I could feel his excitement. He swerved away from obstacles and he was in total control, it was like his own lucid dream. He also had passengers in the car which he spoke to and they seemed to admire him and his driving skills.

I saw what was happening from the outside and then I was inside the car next to his passengers. They ignored me. I was still a floating head. Then I shouted his name. He turned and looked perplexed. Then I felt this huge force pull me back before waking up. I felt as though I had been a 'ghost' in his world.

The next encounter was in a strange room and he was crying. I asked him if he was alright and he told me he regretted many things he had done when he was alive. I patted him on the back and told him that everyone makes mistakes and that no one blames him for what he did. This put a smile on his face. Then he turned to me and asked in bewilderment how was it that I could visit him. I told him about OOBEs and he seemed interested.

The next experience was a lucid dream where I was observing a great landscape from a strange room which seemed to be the top floor of a tower. The sky outside was pink. Suddenly there was a knock on the door and this took me by surprise. I did not expect to see anyone. I opened the door and a strange man, who seemed Portuguese, told me I had a visit. I looked behind him and saw Sergio. He told me he was visiting. I asked him who the other man was and he said that it didn't matter, what mattered was that he was there. The other man entered what looked like a bathroom and disappeared.

Sergio's skin was white and slightly shiny. He then told me that he would have been “42” if he was still alive. He seemed wiser, there was something about him, almost charismatic. We started talking and I can't remember what was said as it seemed like we communicated through a mixture of words and telepathy. He seemed to be getting more out of the conversation than me.

Then we started to go down some stairs which appeared to never end and descended into darkness. He suddenly stopped and stayed at the top, smiling. I continued to go down as I looked back at the same time. There was light where he was but I was descending into a dark void. Sergio remained, as if the lit area was his world, and he was not coming with me because he simply had nothing to come back to. After a falling sensation I woke up.

I knew it had been his birthday recently but didn't know how old he would have been. When I asked my mother how old he would have been she said "42”. There have been other experiences but this, so far, could be interpreted as pretty convincing evidence of an afterlife. Still, the uncertainty remains. What if it was all imagined and subconsciously I already knew how old he would have been? Whether real communication with the dead in the Phase state is possible or not, nobody knows, but such experiences are certainly exhilarating, and, at times, emotionally intense."

Koi, I understand where you are coming from. I have also visited people who are alive and they either told me that I had appeared to have seen what was on their minds (their thought forms) or even slightly inaccurate replicas of what they were actually doing at the time (the Phase seemingly provided the gist) and my experience appeared to make more sense to them than me.

But we must consider that our Phase visits are subject to a wide range of interpretations. What one might consider significant, or a validation, another might see it as coincidence, and, the latter, believe it or not, happens more often than you think in general - if it didn't it would actually be weird.

Then you have the subconscious as Michael pointed out...you know more than you think you know, koi! The subconscious is like a massive storehouse and holds information that you are not even aware of - so it is possible that in my story above I already knew how old my stepfather would have been. Have a look at this possibility too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptomnesia

I am not trying to disprove the possibility of an afterlife, by the way, but I am trying to get everyone to consider all possible venues and I know exactly where Michael is coming from. Whatever the truth, just enjoy the experiences. You can try to see if you can manipulate the speech of a dead relative or even change their appearance in the Phase - which would be indicative that it is your creation, or, regard such presences as being the spirits of the dead and treat them accordingly. Your choice."

Then again, in some cases, there has been no measurable brain activity and the individuals reported HD NDEs when, in theory, if it was all in the head, they should have been unconscious as there was less activity than in delta (deep sleep). On the other hand, bursts of energy have been observed in the brain a few minutes after an individual has died. Perhaps the "spiritual experiences" manifest and only last for the duration of those bursts. I don't know. Quite frankly, I don't care. If death is the cessation of being, so be it.

[Xanth]

Maybe you could start another thread on that subject?


Regarding Raduga's method, what's important to me, was if he's invalidating the
Monroe concept: "I'm more than my physical body."

If so, I would have liked to know that in advance of spending time on the Raduga method.
If the phase is only in the mind/brain/head, then there is no afterlife and nothing outside the
physical world. But perhaps Raduga has more to say on this matter?

The point here is *YOU CAN'T EVER KNOW*.

You're asking for a definable TRUTH... a 100% guaranteed TRUTH.

I'm sorry Pauli, but if you're looking for something absolutely concrete, I HIGHLY SUGGEST you stop learning to astral project and take up knitting.