Unusual dream : My first Lucid Dream ?

[truth_seeker]

This morning, I had a dream diffrent that usual. Experienced people: was this a Lucid Dream ? My Arguement is at the end.

I think it was my first LD, since after realizing that I am dreaming, I totally remembered following experiments to do (unlike my usual dreams). These are the experiments I think about in waking life that "I will to do during my OBE/LD". Failed to accomplish some, and succeeded for some. Please read on.

In the Dream, I was in an office like place, and on seeing one of my family members there suddenly I felt - hey this person cant be here ! - I am dreaming ! I assured myself in the dream that I was dreaming. After that, I remembered following experiments from waking life that I wanted to do in a LD/OBE (this indicates I became aware ??) :

(1) Came out of building in to its front side garden (automatically). There were lot of people there having like a picnic. It was night time but the garden was very well illuminated with lights. I wished let there be lush green lawn here (I always wanted to do this in waking life). FAILED.

(2) There itself I wished to see/manifest a known person in front of me. FAILED.

(3) I wished to float. SUCCEEDED. Floated around in a city (but it became like evening time rather than night as was earliar - is there no continuation of same place and time in the dream ?? )

(4) While floating I was very scared to fall off (although I told myself in waking life that I wont be). But still, half williingly and fearfully I wished to go to moon. FAILED. (The fear failed it or what ?).

(5) I wished to go to some relegious place since while waking I used to think that when I have an OBE/LD, I will visit a relegious place to see if it has something extra ordinary in ethreal/astral plane. SUCCEEDED. There was also a priest (whom I talked to) and some other people. Started having a conversation with priest and forgot to look around in the place for extra-ordinary things.

(6) I wished let time in the dream be 1/10th of what it is in physical - so that I could spend more time here while my body is asleep in physical. I read this some where and wanted to do this experiment seriously. FAILED. (as there was no way of verifying it).

After this, I was woken up by someone in the home. I felt my ethreal body was activated (felt it surrounding my physical body), but woke up anyway.

MY ARGUEMENT IS : all above wishes were my councious wishes in the dream, I was even aware that since I am dreaming, I should not try to get too excited otherwise my physical body will wake up (I had a proud feeling that I was Lucid Dreaming and I agreed to "let go" whenever a wish failed) - but still I was not "fully" councious - I mean I was not the 100% controller of myself or the dream - I was "being" taken around, "being" dreamt, probably wherever/whatever my subcouncious mind wanted to.

Important : What more can I do to make sure I am convinced that I am having Lucid Dream ?

Experienced people, Your opinion will be very much appreciated.

[Stookie]

It doesn't sound like your doing anything wrong, and your just about there. When I become lucid in a dream it's like this:

"Hhhmmmm, something doesn't seem right... this is a rediculous situation... how'd THIS happen, it's so out of the ordinary... wait a minute... is this a dream?... uh... mmm... (look around and check things out, maybe pinch myself)... HOLY MOLY it is a dream!!!

Once I've successfully convinced myself, lucidity is ON. It normally doesn't last real long, maybe a couple minutes before lucidity disappears. For me, the main trick is looking around and compare things to my normal daily life. When it doesn't fit, I become positive it's a dream. But I always have to do something to convince myself first, and obviously, it has to be done from the hazy dream state. Tough stuff to do.

It sounds like your doing OBE stuff, but for some reason still haven't completely convinced yourself it's a dream. I've had dreams with mile-wide UFO's or living in a sci-fi futuristic city and wasn't able to realize it was a dream. Coming to that realization can be hard. I suggest keep doing what your doing, and soon enough it'll happen. With OBE stuff going on, you can't be far.

[truth_seeker]

Stookie, Thanks for your comments !

Few questions though :

So you mean that when LUCIDITY is on - it feels like real world (with dreamy stuff around) ? Like you can turn right-left, or walk in the dream scenery - at your will - like real world ? Suppose you see a flower pot, you can go to it and see its details like real world (although it might be an altogether strange flower pot since its dream) ? Means in Lucid Dream can you controll your body and your movement  completely and interact with dream scenery as it real world ?

Because as far as I know, in dreams one only sees glimpses of things - we don't overall perceive a person or thing - just a flash of everything - for very short span of time - but you say that in Lucid dream you can see things - including your own hands and legs - and perceive them very well without confusion - like real world - the only difference being that the dreamy stuff will be strange as compared to real world ? Can you continue staring at your hands in a lucid dream for as long as you will ?

[Selski]

was this a Lucid Dream ? , since after realizing that I am dreaming,

Well, the fact that a Lucid Dream means that one realizes they are dreaming (and nothing else) I'd say yes, that was a Lucid Dream.  The rest is irrelevant to your question, but I will respond thus...

(1)  This is normal, in my experience.  Occasionally it works, occasionally it doesn't.  About 50/50.  No idea why.  It doesn't seem to do with level of lucidity.

(2)  Ha - I fail every time!  Try to manifest someone (as in anyone).  This works better (but not always).

(3)  Great - floating is good.  I do it most times.  In my lucid dreams, dreamlike things do happen, even if I feel I am 100% lucid, such as switching environments at the drop of a hat.  My advice?  Go with it and don't question it.

(4)  You were scared to fall off what?  I suspect fear played a big part in this failure, yes.

(5)  Quite normal.  That wish you believe you will go to/experience, can be a reality.  Not always.

(6)  As there was no way of verifying this, how do you know that you failed?

100% control I'm not actually sure is possible.  100% lucidity is, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have a blank canvas to play on.  I suspect that we enter a different reality when we dream.  And when we are lucid, we are more able to interact rationally with the other characters, who are not our imagination.  Therefore, we would never be able to play God.  And quite right too.

As for your latest post - yes, yes and yes.  Even the dreamy stuff can be realer than reality.  Lucid dreams can be far more 'real' than how you feel whilst reading this.

Sarah

[truth_seeker]

Selski,

Thanks for comments. They were very helpful.

Analyzing, I don't think it was a completely lucid dream, since the dream was still like the usual dream, the things and scenes and events were coming and flashing - I could not stick to a particular scene and in fact did not continuously have the intelligence/wish to do so (like in usual dreams) - I just flowed with the dream and kept remembering to do those checks at various points - so overall partial lucidity and occasional realization I might say.

Overall, I think I missed the basic command after realizing that I was dreaming - "CLARITY NOW!" Does that help ? Or the dream turns Lucid and clear as soon as you realize that you are dreaming ?

[Selski]

Hi truth_seeker

Lucid dreams are hard to define totally.  I've been what I would term 100% lucid (although of course there is no way of measuring this) and having a rational, logical conversation with someone I know to be dead.  Then out of the blue, some strange event will happen that doesn't seem to 'fit' with the situation. 

It's difficult to know what completely lucid really is.  Even in waking reality, we are often not focused on the moment.  How lucid would you say you are right now?  Dreams are similar.  You can have a lucid dream but be, say 50% lucid.  The dream can still be fuzzy even if you feel 100% lucid, just like waking reality can seem fuzzy at times. 

"Clarity Now" may or may not help.  I've never used it.  When I become lucid, I am then able to look at things in a totally different perspective.  It's not so much that the dream becomes clearer, it's you that becomes clearer.  That's how it works for me anyway.

One thing that I do if I want to get rid of the more 'dreamier' aspects is to find the nearest door/window/wall and go through it.  As I'm going through I place intent that I will now be in a 'real' place, rather than my own imagination.  You can term this place 'astral', 'F3' or whatever you wish, doesn't really matter. 

On the other side of the door/window/wall, the environment tends to be more stable and the characters you come across have their own agenda and seem to be going about their business regardless of you.

Hope this helps.  Any further questions, just ask!

Sarah

[Mez]

Awesome, your first lucid dream! I had one this morning... sooooo much fun.

Dream control can be difficult at times and the more lucidity you have the more control you can muster. The first thing I do when I become lucid is fly... it has to be my all time favourite thing to do, ever. I had a lucid task I wanted to complete which was freezing time but I failed at it. No biggie, i'll just have to do it next time.

Looking around and interacting with your environment in a lucid dream is one of the beauty's of being lucid Infact when lucid dreaming all the areas of your brain are actually MORE active than in waking consciousness except for your frontal lobes of course but the more you can convince yourself you're dreaming, the more active they become.

A few things you can do to maintain and increase lucidity areee...
Look at your hands, they will start to melt and you'll know you're dreaming
Spin around really fast, a new environment usually weaves itself (my next lucid task)
say things like increase lucidity now! (never worked in my experience)
Hold your nose and try breathing, if you can breathe then you're dreaming.

As far as DC's (dream characters) go... people report I wide range of characteristics from being flat or 2D in personality to being a slightly more indepth character but still not a complete or convincing person to being a full blown character with a personality. In my experience yes these are creations of our mind (because I have "played god" and controlled a DC before haha fun stuff) although I believe its highly possible that maybe the more indepth characters are real but that im only speculating and im going to do my own research into the world of DC's.

[Selski]

Hi Mez 

Are your dream characters ever 2-D?  Only, I've been thinking about mine and in any kind of dream, mine are always full 3-D normal everyday human characters.  There is an exception which is when I observe a dream, rather than be in it.  Which is just like watching a film but you are fast asleep.

When I use the term 'more dreamier aspects', my aspects are people that I know are alive, or famous people and so on.  These are what I would term my imagination getting in the way of my real dream, if you like.

What about you?  It's interesting isn't it?  We all think we know what we mean when we say dreaming, and yet it can be different.  Someone who has lucid dreamed all their lives would assume that everyone can do this and so on.  I always dream in colour and assumed everyone did.  And yet another person I know believes that you are in the 'astral' if you dream in colour.  Round and round we go.

Sarah

[Mez]

I used to believe dreams took place in the astral. I dont think so anymore although all consciousness is connected I think shared dreams are possible. Some people dream in black and white and some people dream in colour... why that is? anyones guess. its fairly illogical that only colour dreams would take place in the astral seeing as you're brain is fully capable of creating its own colour images and not just black and white ones.

Some of my DC's can be fairly 2D... some do nothing and say nothing, they're simply there. Others are people that I know to be real people but they're just there in my dreams, often a faithful representation if I know them well enough but still not the real thing. I do have DC's that are also 3D characters like real people in every day situations. Im very keen to experiment in my next lucid dream.

[Selski]

I used to believe dreams took place in the astral.

Out of curiosity, what would you say is the difference between a dream environment and an astral environment?  If they are different focuses, how do you tell one from another?  If they are different places, again how do you tell them apart. 

I find that with my experiences, they do tend to overlap each other and what I used to all an 'astral' experience was based on level of lucidity.  So, if I was more lucid than normal, I'd determine that to be astral.  However, I've had some dreams which were even more lucid than I'd ever been, and so I revised my beliefs. 

Now my belief is "I have no idea".  However, I also believe it doesn't matter what label we put on an experience.  It's the experience itself that counts, in my opinion. 

Sarah

[Stookie]

In my experience, if I have to question whether I've lucid dreamed or not, it's a big huge NO. The experience of it and my memory of it afterwards is not like the memory of a dream. It's more like a memory of yesterday.

Dreaming, lucid dreaming, day dreaming, visualization, (for all practical purposes) take place in the same area of consciousness. Day Dreaming? Yes... Day Dreaming. The difference between all of these is nothing more than how much of our awareness is separated between our physical consciousness and the subjective area of consciousness the event takes place in. Phasing is a controlled lucid dream, until you use it as a launchpad to reach other states of consciousness. IMO, there is no difference between lucid dreaming and AP.

What makes a dream lucid is dependent on how much awareness is lent to the dream. What area the dream takes place in is inconsequential. When I'm lucid, there is no doubt about it. Awareness makes it so. If it's questioned, there was not a sufficient amount awareness directed toward the dream. In a lucid dream I'm not always in control, but there is still the huge factor of awareness that makes it so.

[Mez]

Lucid Dream = Focus 2 (private reality)

Astral Projection = Focus 3 (public reality)

[Selski]

Hi Mez

I see you fully subscribe to Frank's model.

I still don't get it though.  How do you know if you are in F2 or F3? 

I can only deduce that the one way of confirming your belief is through validation with another living person.  If you believe in dream-sharing (which you mentioned), then this would really confuse things. 

So if you see your best mate and have a conversation which you both remember afterwards - this would be F3?

What if it's a shared dream?  Then surely you are in F2 by your standards?

I'm not knocking Frank's model, not at all.  At first I went along with it, but after quite a few more experiences under my belt, I've come to the conclusion it's inadequate.  At least for me.

Sarah

[Stookie]

I've always assumed that both F2 and F3 are part of the "astral realm". It doesn't matter where you project to, it's still an astral projection. The focuses aren't real boundaries, they are just labels to help understand the level of subjectiveness/objectiveness in the span of consciousness. If you encounter another real being in a lucid dream, part of it is most likely an overlay into another focus, which is what can also cause "reality fluctuations", making you perceive that other being as someone they are not or as a bucket or something. Normal dreams could potentially have F3 overlays, yet no way of really knowing it.

Frank spoke about overlays quite a bit. There's no reason that you can't be on the cusp of F2/F3 and experience a little of both. Or F1/F2/F3/F4 and really blow your mind. He said at one time that he figured about 10 more years of practice he could probably do a conscious F1/F4 overlay. I believe that this is more than possible as our entire being stretches the entire span of consciousness at all times, it's just we're normally unconscious or subconscious of F2 through F4. Our physical consciousness, even the physical world in whole, is dependent on them.

[Mez]

Normal dreams could potentially have F3 overlays, yet no way of really knowing it.

exactly.

you see a shared dream would be a F2/F3 overlay IMO. Same with REAL dream characters IE ones that are not a creation of your mind (if there are any? some people believe there are however... im in the proccess of seeing for myself)

When we dream being in Focus 2 we have our own little world to ourselves but some people seem to project from inside lucid dreams thus shifting to Focus 3 although this isnt exactly the most reliable technique due to the fact that how would one tell what Focus level one is actually in anyway? Objectivity being the key I guess... a validation or something.

[Selski]

Mez

So if I have a lucid dream about a dead relative (for example) and they give me information which turns out to be true (having no prior knowledge), would you term that I was having an F3 overlay in an F2 experience?

And if I have a traditional OBE where I 'separate' from the physical and walk through the nearest wall into the same experience with the dead person... what would you call that?  Straight into F3?  Or is it F1 with F3 overlays (as Frank placed RTZ OBEs in F1)?

Sarah