carnivores: old topic new(ish) thoughts

[MisterJingo]

The problem is I dont believe the entire world is allowed to know, without a doubt, the truth. Theres never been a successfull highly publicized scientific study on the 'paranormal.' According to results there is no such thing as psychic powers, astral projection, auras, there is nothing according to them.

There have been a lot of studies done into these areas, but people really have to dig down to find them. The problem is, such experiments done under scientific conditions return very poor results, or results which are not far from what chance would dictate.
Something to keep in mind is that science is purely a way of finding consistent  truth using unbiased methodologies. Nothing more or less. Scientists themselves might be biased, but that is a different story.

Well, guess my life is over, might as well kill myself and fade into nonexistence...

I personally believe there is equal possibility of us fading to oblivion on death as I do there is an afterlife. The possibility of  the electrons diffusing into surrounding matter and personal oblivion occurring is not a terrible thought which makes me want to give up on life, if anything, it makes me appreciate the beauty in life even more.
Regardless, oblivion or not, the pinnacle of spiritual development - returning to the source, would be no different than fading into non-existence.

sorry I got carried away  You're only allowed as much as you can handle, correct? What would happen if all the hard nosed atheists out there were shown indisputable, impossible to deny proof of what we believe? It would be too much for them, as such, highly publicized experiments nearly always fail.

What if such experiments fail not because of biasness, but because they simply fail to produce any results in an unbiased environment (unbiased from those with total belief who might be colouring the results with their desire for the results to be true).
Biased-ness stretches both ways. I’ve seen many people who consider themselves open-minded because they believe in energy and auras, but, they are closed minded in the respect that they won’t consider the possibility that their beliefs might be wrong.
True open-mindedness is walking the line between absolute scepticism and absolute belief.

And Selski is right, the tests are always done in a way not conductive to the 'paranormal.' On top of this hot fudge sundae of orthodox sterility sprinkle a bunch of people who purposely sabotage the experiment or its results because they themselves are not able to look the truth in the face.

As above, experiments done by believers can equally be falsified and sabotaged to produce results which will reinforce their beliefs. The brain itself utilises confabulation to construct our world, this means if our belief is strong enough, we will see reinforcements for that belief anywhere and everywhere (this goes for those on both sides of the belief).
I personally don’t believe there is a global conspiracy to keep truth of the paranormal from us. The world has shrunk too much, equipment which could easily validate paranormal activity can be found in near every home, and we are linked by a communication network which could get the truth out in seconds.  I find it increasingly disheartening we still do not have this proof.

Im sorry, I know I totally overdid it, it's in no way directed to you MJ. Im just sorry for all those people who still dont beleive, and agitated I cant do anything about it. So much for keeping opinion out.

Opinions are good, so don’t worry about it . From the age of 16 to around 22 I was a total believer in all these things, but as I personally experienced more, researched more and read the research out there, my beliefs have been stripped away until now I sit on the line between scepticism and belief. I’ve experienced some amazing things, but nothing which an irrefutably justify my previous beliefs. I actually went through a very black period in which I first tasted deep depression after I took a long hard look at what I believed, and removed all the unjustified stuff. I found that a lot of my beliefs in the astral and paranormal phenomena were borrowed from authors because I wanted it to be true, and I held such beliefs as absolute. Dropping them was painful.

[Hans Solo]

Vegetarianism is NOT healthy for you!!

Look at this study:

"The vegetarians of Southern India eat a low-calorie diet very high in carbohydrates and low in protein and fat. They have the shortest life span of any society on Earth, and their bodies have an extremely low muscle mass. They are weak and frail and the children clearly exhibit a failure to thrive. Their heart disease rate is double that of the meat eaters in Northern India. HL Abrams. Vegetarianism: An anthropological/nutritional evaluation. Journal of Applied Nutrition, 1980, 32:2:53-87. The optimal diet for humans can be determined by anthropological research studies that show humans have primarily been meat-eaters. Anthropological Research Reveals Human Dietary Requirements for Optimal Health   by H. Leon Abrams, Jr., MA, EDS"

BTW, Monroe called the vegetarian and low fat activist "Nurtition Nazi's" and persisted on having meat at TMI because he personally loved meat.

[MisterJingo]

Vegetarianism is NOT healthy for you!!

Look at this study:

"The vegetarians of Southern India eat a low-calorie diet very high in carbohydrates and low in protein and fat. They have the shortest life span of any society on Earth, and their bodies have an extremely low muscle mass. They are weak and frail and the children clearly exhibit a failure to thrive. Their heart disease rate is double that of the meat eaters in Northern India. HL Abrams. Vegetarianism: An anthropological/nutritional evaluation. Journal of Applied Nutrition, 1980, 32:2:53-87. The optimal diet for humans can be determined by anthropological research studies that show humans have primarily been meat-eaters. Anthropological Research Reveals Human Dietary Requirements for Optimal Health   by H. Leon Abrams, Jr., MA, EDS"

BTW, Monroe called the vegetarian and low fat activist "Nurtition Nazi's" and persisted on having meat at TMI because he personally loved meat.

The population of southern India were shown to have low iron stores, which increases the risk of heart disease greatly. The Indian population to the north had normal iron levels which explains the difference. Indians who are vegetarian and live in the US/Europe show no difference in heart disease or life span to those who eat meat. This is because they generally have a much more iron rich diet.
The study you mention is quite skewed against vegetarianism as it misinterprets why the lifespan was lower and heart disease higher (purely to do with iron - not vegetarianism or high carb intake).
 I've been vegetarian for 10 years now, I give blood regulalry. If my iron levels were low they wouldn't allow me to give, and they check them before each donation. Also, i'm 14.5 stone (6'2"), go to they gym 3-4 times a week and am very healthy. A balanced diet is what it's all about (for vegetarians and meat eaters).

[Astir]

And cats.  They know when a storm is coming.  And they sure as hell know when electric gadgets are about to blow.

They especially know right before they're about to barf into them. The family cat barfed into the cable modem last month and took out both the phone line and internet. A cat we had before her barfed into the back of a TV and destroyed it. They're funny creatures. 

Oh, and I agree with what was said in your post.

[Alaskans]

I was just being sarcastic about the whole oblivion thing  I consider us still being in the womb, and 'death' is birth to me. I dont even consider our bodies as our property, we are only borrowing them from the physical universe.

I think the reason you got depressed after all that research is I dont believe it is about knowing but the journey itself. When you listen to someone explain how they perceive things to be it will stick the world in a box, but you may get out of a rut, things may get going for you again. But on the other hand, if you answer them for yourself then you create a connection with the universal mind. You experience fascinating sensations. You get a deep sense of accomplishment. And you can discover rare things not commonly known. I developed a complex of chaos from it though (crazy? maybe  ). But really, it is actually quite destructive to yourself to ask humans how things function rather than asking within yourself.
It stands to logic that the astral isnt exactly like the physical, so everything that is known via the universal mind is not concerning the physical. I think this whole 'you create the universe around you' thing is getting out of hand. To some extent it is true, but I think it is the astral that the idea pertains to, the physical is already being imagined, but not by us, where as the astral is for the most part being imagined by us.

[kiwibonga]

From Rosalind McKnight's book, Cosmic Journeys: My Out-of-Body Explorations with Robert A. Monroe

Rosalind McKnight is sitting in a CHEC Unit (Controlled Holistic Environmental Chamber) with binaural sounds that Robert Monroe is playing from the control room. She has a microphone and can relay to Robert what is going on while she is in a state of trance. She acts as a channel between Monroe and "Invisible helpers" who give them insights about the greater reality.

ROMC (Rosalind McKnight): I'm lying here trying to figure out what is going on. The new sound that you have, Bob, I think is affecting me differently. I feel nothing happening. However, I heard a voice that said, "Unless you are really willing to work with us on some serious disciplines, we are going to have to withdraw from working with you."
RAM (Robert A. Monroe): Ask them what they mean.
ROMC: I hear the words, "We are trying to get across the point that you must get into the right balance within your systems. With the right energy balance, you can be in contact with other dimensions at any time. There are many dimensions around and within; it is a matter of being in the right state of consciousness to come into the proper communication with them. The goal should be to keep the channels open at all times, to be in constant communication. Certain things cut off communication. One is cutting off the vital energies that help produce the right state of consciousness.
"The message that we want to get across to both of you is that, if you take this work seriously, you should be willing to work carefully with your own vehicles and your own energy systems by following disciplines. You must follow the disciplines that you know within yourselves are the important ones to help accomplish the work that is to be done. It is important to set an example to yourselves, as much as to anyone else. It is not important to be concerned about what others think; it is important to be in contrrol of, and to be respectful of, your own decision-making process."
RAM: Yes, we have been remiss in not understanding this. We will certainly attempt to change the pattern.
ROMC: "It can be done in a slow process. You will find that the body has its habits as well. The body is a separate being in and of itself. It gets used to certain habits and types of food which makes change difficult. When you give up things that you have taken into your system for many years, cravings will occur. To switch habits creates a withdrawal that is not easy for your bodies. It is important to take on one main discipline at a time, and to stick to it. Do not take on more disciplines than you can achieve. You will overload your system in trying to put too many changes upon it at once."
RAM: Is there one critical food that is most detrimental to our system?
ROMC: "The problem is with the amount of food that is taken in. Also, the important foods to eat are the natural foods--foods that have not been tampered with by humans. Artificial ingredients that enhance a food's taste and appearance are detrimental to the energy system.
"Many of the diseases that are a part of modern life on the earth come through the foods that have artificial, man-made ingredients. What happens is that the energy balance in the food is thrown off, and important vitamins are often destroyed. The artificial ingredients, in turn, throw the energy balance off within the body. Many people in societies such as yours, where there is plenty, are victims of vitamin deprivation and starvation, even though there is plenty to eat. The body becomes starved for its natural sources of energy; if it is not satisfied, disease sets in. Disease occurs when the body gets out of balance. The mind and emotions also have a great deal to do with the energy imbalance and disease.
"An important rule to follow is to seek the natural flow of energies--natural foods, your own natural flow of energies, your own natural thoughts. Stay away from the artificial--that which is not in tune with your energies--food-wise and thought-wise. This also includes humans. Do not let artificial humans have control over your life. Anthing that is artificial is not in touch with its own energies."
RAM: What foods are especially good for the system?
ROMC: "Fresh juices are excellent for the system. It is good to cleanse the system with fresh juices. Citrus juices are especially helpful to the body. The body can receive natural sugar through all types of fruits.
"In your society, dyes and sprays are put on the fruits; therefore, it is important to cleanse carefully everything that you eat. It is preferable to eat foods that have not been dyed or sprayed. If this is not possible, careful cleansing is important.
"Back to the amount of food taken into the system: Those who tend to eat from an emotional level often take foods into the body to overcompensate for emotional deprivation. This is detrimental to the body. One must eat from a mental level, having control over the food that is taken in. When the emotions are in control, then the body is often abused.
"The body will crave the kinds of foods it is used to. When it is cleansed of the wrong food vibrations, it craves only the live foods. This is why it is important to put the body through cleansing periods called fasting, so that the body can get in touch with its own energies.
"We stress fruits and vegetables because they have most of what the body needs for proper energy. It is important to get in tune with the foods that you eat, as well as foods being in tune with you. When you eat the natural foods, you are eating live foods. Live foods are foods that have the vital life energy source still in them. The live elements in each cell in the body crave the live elements in natural foods. It is the like-attracts-like principle. When the consciousness levels of the self becomes stagnant or dead, so to speak, they attract dead foods. When the self is vibrantly alive, it attracts the live foods. When humans are really in tune with themselves, they will get the most mileage out of their systems."
RAM: Other than citrus fruits, is there any other food that can cleanse us with some rapidity?
ROMC: "Eating green, leafy vegetables is another good form of cleansing. Also, the yellow vegetables are good for cleansing. You will find that all live vegetables have a puriying effect upon the body; the more of the live vegetables and fruits that you eat, the better.
"However, do know that there are combinations of these live foods that can create an imbalance. One rule is not to mix fruits and vegetables at the same period of eating. It is important not to overload the system with large amounts of meat products. Some systems cannot handle meat products. And some systems do not need meat products. But there is no system that should have a large amount of meat products, for they can affect the digestive system in an adverse manner.
"Meat products are heavier in vibration and put a great load on the digestive system. People who overload the system with meats will have more energy problems, because the body is spending most of its energy digesting these products. Meat energies take away from the bodily energies. But the live foods, being lighter in vibration, do not put a great strain on the digestive system--therefore giving the body more energy for external functioning."

Well, I'm not going to copy the whole chapter... I am wearing out my fair-use rights They basically go on to say that it's good to grow your own foods, to "build a connection with the foods you grow" so that they are in tune with you, and are full of good vibrations. Being thankful for your food when you eat also helps.

Basically, "eating right" is important for the energy body. On the one hand, heavy foods put a strain on your digestive system which will wear down your ability to come in contact with higher energies. This would probably not prevent one from having an out of body experience, but doing serious energy work or attempting to travel to higher planes, contact "higher entities" would be problematic. On the other hand, there's the simple fact that we need this "life energy" that is contained in live foods. Fruit is alive even after it has been picked off a branch, it contains seeds and can still give birth to new plants. Meat will not produce new cows if you plant it into the ground

I'm not much of a vegetarian, and really couldn't care less about what I eat, but I do believe there is some truth to all this. Good physical and emotional balance always leads to a better ability to fulfill one's goals... If you let the small things hold you back -- things as stupid as your eating habits -- you'll keep stumbling along the way.

[Stookie]

So a balanced diet, exercise, and positive attitude are keys to living healthy. That sounds correct (and simple) to me.

[Alaskans]

This is undoubtly the best thread on this subject so far, I have found it very enlightening. I especially liked the arcticle kiwi, thank you. it puts into words what my heart was trying to say, all answers can be found in your heart, it is just a matter of converting the cloudy whisperings from your heart to thoughts in your head. That is one (of the few) advantage of hearing thoughts from someone else, it can sometimes show you what your heart knew but you never formed in your mind.

According to kiwi's quote, the idea of energy connections with the food you eat isnt so crazy. It makes perfect sence to me that dead food with decaying energy, would suck energy from your bodies.

Meat generally has the same molecular makeup no matter what it is, it is not especially good or bad for you (exept for fish, wich is good for you). Fruits and vegetables have a more varied makeup, and can give bennifits that meat cannot.

I wont talk much on the important and illuminating thoughts everyone has put forth on this thread (ya.. I shrank my post). But leave it up to the reader.

[kiwibonga]

I need to write to Rosalind McKnight to find out why mixing fruit and vegetables is bad :p I'll keep you guys updated if I succeed!

[Alaskans]

That would be great Kiwi, thanks. And thanks again for the book quote, it was very enlightening. I'll have to check out some of Monroes books.

I didnt want to mention this early in the tread, but what sparked me to start this discussion happened while trying to do a remote viewing for someone. I had just had some steak soup over at my brothers and decided to try to help this person out. It wasnt going too well.. then I saw the steak cubes that had been in the soup. I had to make a mad dash to the bathroom, where I got to see dinner a 3rd time. I didnt feel like continueing after, so I dont know if it helped. My brother and his gf didnt get sick from it.

[kiwibonga]

Well, her website disappeared, can't seem to find anything about her besides stores that sell her books... I think I'll write the monroe institute and see...


In related news: http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=1174716213

A study finds that vitamin supplements are actually harmful! I wonder if it could be explained with the "dead food/live food" idea... You take in good nutrients, but your energy remains dull, so you are not able to make the best of it, and starve!

[kiwibonga]

An excerpt from George Adamski's book, "Inside the Spaceships" where he shares his conversations with aliens.

Here, George is aboard a Venusian spaceship listening to a being called "The Master":

I understood clearly all that this great teacher of other worlds was saying, but a question
entered my mind. I wondered how they viewed killing for food, if they did kill, or even
consuming fruit and vegetables, since these too were living in their own form of expression.
And as always, the answer came without my speaking.
“There is nothing illogical in this, my son. When you eat a lettuce leaf, it becomes a part of
you, does it not? As a result, from then on it begins to experience things with you. So what
you have actually done is to transmute one form into your own form. Had this not been the
case, the lettuce leaf would have matured, then gone to seed in order to replenish its own kind
again, and that would have been its total experience. But by serving you, it has been elevated
to a higher service through you.
“Motive also enters into this principle. If your motive is to destroy or injure or exploit, then it
is wrong. But if your motive embraces the service you can render another form by bringing it
up to your standard, through you, then it is right. For you are really transmuting a mineral
from one state to another that it may be of still greater service. In doing this, you are acting
according to the law of growth or development, ofttimes called ‘evolution’ in your world.
This is the law of your Creator.
“The people of your world make much of form—disintegration—not realizing the law of
elevation, because they have begun to think that the form is all there is. But the form is only a
channel through which life, or intelligence, expresses. All-Inclusive Intelligence cannot
express through a lettuce leaf. So the lettuce leaf must be transmuted by gradual stages into a
higher form through which to express greater service. That is the way it is rewarded.
“When this law is fully accepted and lived by your Earth men as it has been accepted and
lived by inhabitants of other planets and systems, the atmospheric conditions of Earth will be
sweetened. For every form will then give off joyous radiations from itself that will permeate
the air within which mankind lives.