so how do you actually raise your kundalini?

[Xanth]

Selea, if you want to go here... so be it.

People try to engage you in discussion.  *I* have tried to engage you in discussion.  But the general response that people get from you sickens me.  You laugh at them, Selea.  You laugh and then say "you just don't know what you're talking about"... it always comes back to that for you.  You disagree with someone and they're just flat out wrong to you or they haven't bothered to read you correct... excuse after excuse.  The thought has probably never crossed your mind that perhaps YOU are the problem.  Not the people responding to you.

The few tidbits of good information you do provide, simply get lost in the sea of superiority you reflect in your posts.
I don't know what part of the world you come from, but if you are the standard for how they act there... you can rest assured that I'll never visit it.

Stookie wonders "why people get so defensive when Selea posts"... I don't see anyone getting defensive.  I see them getting frustrated due to your bigotry.  All of your "supposed" training aside, they forgot to teach you one thing... manners.

I'm sorry Selea, but (and in a bit of an ironic statement) you just don't get it... and I doubt you ever will.

[Naykid]

I am a girl (well, I would like to... I'm more a woman ). I use to put I'm a male in my facebook address (that I don't either use, I just used once to contac someone) because in some places some people act strangely when behaving with girls.

Silly me, I'd call that lying.  Thank you for making it clear that you are person that will manipulate certain things.  I think I almost have you figured out.

Stookie will and has always found the positive in people, that's what makes him, well.. Him.  And he does not have a problem with people not agreeing with him. 

[Stookie]

I've studied much occult literature and it's not the first time I've seen this stuff, and for me, it's welcome to have it properly explained by someone who knows it. We need experienced people around here - the difference is it's more in an occult tradition than the more modern OBE authors/exercises we normally discuss on this forum.

Yes, Selea is very direct in her approach, but I don't need a pat on the back or an ego-boost or a please & thank you - I'm hungry for knowledge. If I don't agree with something I don't understand and don't have a counterpoint for, I just leave it be.

I haven't seen any AUP rules broken.

[NoY]

people are entitled to disagree

i however do agree with most of what Selea has said
i cant see what the problem is but i do believe its your problem
i think a few of the posters need to grow up abit and stop being so dramatic
its ridiculous

:NoY:

[omcasey]

Noy,

Based on your experience with Kundalini, what point(s) in particular are you in alignment with Selea on?- in regard to the original topic of this thread..  Perhaps we can swing this thing back onto the road.  The only thing I see myself as having done to get the experience I am surfing now, is to park my board in front of an incoming wave.  The wave is now doing the rest.  My sole responsibility is to freak out as less as possible.  And of course enjoy the ride.

[NoY]

she is obviously being bullied over many threads simply because she has an alternate
opinion

and i dont think she is in the wrong i think the bully is

:NoY:

[Xanth]

she is obviously being bullied over many threads simply because she has an alternate
opinion

and i dont think she is in the wrong i think the bully is

:NoY:

I might have read omcasey's post wrong, but I don't believe that was the question.  Please correct me if I'm wrong though. 
I believe omcasey was asking which points of Seleas do you feel you're in alignment with.

I'm curious as well.

[Capt. Picard]

You are a fanatic because you do what we are doing to you, all the time to everyone else. If two people claim to have experienced kundalini, you will discredit them and tell them they are flat out wrong. From an outside perspective, this makes you appear very bigoted. How I behave is signs of mental illness? Your extreme fanaticism and verbal agressiveness combined with the fact that you practice kundalini, known to cause mental illness (unlike breathing, eating, reading and "anything") would seem to suggest that it is you who possesses the unstable mind state.

"Awakening a certain current that enables you to do things you cannot do with normal meditation. Apart this, some effects that are irreproducible in other ways."

Thanks for proving me right with the ever so informative post about the benefits of kundalini. Considering you are an expert with lots of experience, you would think you would have a better answer than this...

"Dreams and Sleep paralysis can coincide (and usually they does) but are not mutual. One can exists without the other. A typical example is Sonnambulism. If it was as you said and sleep paralysis brought dreams than sonnambulims would not exist. You think they are mutual only because you don't know how to discern when one or the other happens."

You are denying very, very basic facts regarding sleep. There is a specific chemical released when the body falls asleep, that paralyzes it so you dont act out your motions in the dream. Are you suggesting that you astral project and walk around in the real world carrying on your normal life? Sounds like kundalini psychosis. As for the terminology, I realize the differences, I just call trance and SP, SP because to me personally (here we go deny what I have experienced myself   ) I dont notice a big difference and I can project just as easily whether I induce trance from a councious state, or wake up in it.

"Try this. Stay for 1 and half/2 hours perfectly still. You need to do nothing specific. You will see your body will go to "sleep", i.e. it will be in what is better called "automatic rigidity", e.g. sleep paralysis. Would this mean you will have an OBE? Absolutely not. You will have to do something to start dreaming. Same happens if you conquer an Asana, much faster. Naturally when the body doesn't give signals to the brain is easier to shift attention, but the two things are not mutual."

And... what about councious projection? What do I do to "start dreaming" when I exit the body immediatly after entering paralysis? Not sure what youre trying to say here but phasing into the astral or counciously projecting outwards are both very easy to accomplish from the "trance" state.

"I already told you. If then for beneficial you talk about dating the girl you like so much, then not, I'm sorry, for you there are none, I guess."

What are you trying to get at? This is completly irrelevant and sadly your intuition has failed you once again. You are a grown woman? Shocking, I think most people here can agree that we assumed your were quite young and immature.

"So you define yourself a troll. Good to know."

You are looking from implications in places where there were none. I was simply pointing out that a troll could take advantage of you very easily, as you are clearly not very perceptive.

[bardips]

I have to ask questions:
The internet (in general) and this website (in specific) are places that curious, motivated people go to earnestly find the truth and put it to action in their lives.  If there are misunderstandings, why fight about them?  If there are disagreements, why not discuss them?  If you are in a tribe of similarly motivated people, why not brainstorm and work together to solve these problems?  If the truth is hidden, how will in-fighting help you to uncover it?

..................

we definitely should question new age mumbo jumbo; but that does not mean that we should dismiss it out of hand.  for instance; many hunters come back empty handed but that doesn't mean that wild animals don't exist.  in fact, the worse they are at hunting, the more they talk (and speculate) about the elusive game animals and the more they imitate successful hunters.

see my point?  The New Age Movement is predominately populated by unsuccessful seekers - hence the parroting of popular ideas, and the confusion. 

so why fight about it?  we have the blind leading the blind already; now the blind fighting with the blind?

[Stillwater]

There are people whom seem to have exhibited symptoms kundalini literature traditionally mentions, without any history of meditation or esoteric practice.

People Like El Collie suffered their entire lives from these symptoms, with severe gastric and nerve troubles beside. She also related, like many others, that her body would be directed to take specific poses.

There are also the writings of Gopi Krishna relating his similar life-long experiences.

I don't have a problem with people saying that Kundalini has been trumped up, and is billed as a metaphysical cureall, since it seems to bring more suffering than anything, but it is clear, at least to me, that people, especially those with meditative practices, have been experiencing a phenomenon of physiological changes, regardless of what you want to think about the phenomenon.

[omcasey]

Stillwater,

Thank you for bringing up El Collie, thank God for her- had she not taken the time to write out her experience(s) and through whatever means gotten them online I would have been lost.  Kundalini literature is often written/phrased in such an esoteric way as to not be entirely clear in the practical sense.  I would have had no idea what was happening with me if not for El Collie, what I was experiencing was EXACT to her relays and it was such a relief, beyond anything I can say to have found someone (else) who was experiencing this. 

For those unfamiliar with El, this is a website in dedication to her-- 
http://www.kundalini-gateway.org/

She wrote many great articles (and I think books), the most known being "Branded by the Spirit"--
http://omtalks.yuku.com/topic/610/t/Branded-by-the-Spirt-El-Collie.html

Also, "Breakdown or Breakthrough"
http://omtalks.yuku.com/topic/612/t/Breakdown-or-Breakthrough-by-El-Collie.html

If interested, you can find many of her articles and more in the Kundalini forum on my talkboard:
http://omtalks.yuku.com/forums/84/t/Kundalini-Shakti.html

[Selea]

Selea, if you want to go here... so be it.

People try to engage you in discussion.  *I* have tried to engage you in discussion.  But the general response that people get from you sickens me.  You laugh at them, Selea.  You laugh and then say "you just don't know what you're talking about"... it always comes back to that for you.  You disagree with someone and they're just flat out wrong to you or they haven't bothered to read you correct... excuse after excuse.  The thought has probably never crossed your mind that perhaps YOU are the problem.  Not the people responding to you.

No, I'm sorry but this is how YOU see it. The problem is only that you don't like someone telling you are wrong. This disturbs you in a way that reveals much more of you than anything else.

If I would say it is my opinion I'm sure nothing of this will happen. Do you know why? Because in this case the option that there's still a small window open for you to be right is still there. Instead if one directly say you are wrong it is all another thing.

I already said this to you but I repeat: in practical things one person is right, the other wrong. There are no ways outside of this. Degrees apply only when staying on the general, but when going to the specific this is the way things works, in EVERYTHING of a practial origin. Then there are terms that are open to generalizations and those that are stricter, and as I said to you Kundalini is VERY strict.

Naturally in normal life and for what concerns your knowledge you agree (just because you show it all the time either in your "indirect" way), it is just too difficult to admit it.
Then I repeat this to you: you always disagree but you never explain why or what specifically (with examples, PRACTICAL) you disagree upon. That way it is easy I know. Throw a sentence that takes the argument from a wide angle and you always win. However the question remains open, and this is not good, either for you and for others that would like to learn.

The few tidbits of good information you do provide, simply get lost in the sea of superiority you reflect in your posts.
I don't know what part of the world you come from, but if you are the standard for how they act there... you can rest assured that I'll never visit it.

I come from the world where hypocrisy doesn't exist. I am not offended if someone says I'm wrong in something I'm not sure about. Sure I don't take it for granted, but I neither react as a schoolgirl having lost her preferred toy. I'm much more concerned that, indeed, I can be, in fact, wrong.

Stookie wonders "why people get so defensive when Selea posts"... I don't see anyone getting defensive.  I see them getting frustrated due to your bigotry.  All of your "supposed" training aside, they forgot to teach you one thing... manners.

Manners are pretty but all in all useless when talking about these things. We are not here to take tea and talk about the weather. What counts are only arguments.

And then, for one time, I would like someone of you reacting to my posts the way it should be. Stating why for you what you do is right and you suppose that I'm telling you idiocies. Then going to the end of the same, and reflect upon it, is this that difficult to do?

I'm sorry Selea, but (and in a bit of an ironic statement) you just don't get it... and I doubt you ever will.

Yes, you get it and I don't, as always.

[Selea]

You are a fanatic because you do what we are doing to you, all the time to everyone else. If two people claim to have experienced kundalini, you will discredit them and tell them they are flat out wrong.

It depens on what they say. If what they say doesn't coincide with that experience called Kundalini, then yes, elsewhere not.
But I suppose if someone will relate a typical Focus 2 experience insisting that it was the RTZ you will tell them they are correct, isn't it?

There's nothing wrong on achieving Kundalini, and neither in not achieving it. It is just an experience. However, Kundalini, as every other practical experience has a structure that it is easily recognizable. So why should I cheat about it? Do you think that apart your ego something else is concerned about this?

From an outside perspective, this makes you appear very bigoted. How I behave is signs of mental illness? Your extreme fanaticism and verbal agressiveness combined with the fact that you practice kundalini, known to cause mental illness (unlike breathing, eating, reading and "anything") would seem to suggest that it is you who possesses the unstable mind state.

I just told you that being too emotional can cause what you suggest. See how you reacted. You take everything I say as an insult, but it's not that "maybe" this is a problem YOU have and not me? Was I really offending you?

Thanks for proving me right with the ever so informative post about the benefits of kundalini. Considering you are an expert with lots of experience, you would think you would have a better answer than this...

It's the answer I can give to YOU. If you would have experience in Samadhi I would give you another one. In your particular case, however, it would mean even less than the above.

You are denying very, very basic facts regarding sleep. There is a specific chemical released when the body falls asleep, that paralyzes it so you dont act out your motions in the dream. Are you suggesting that you astral project and walk around in the real world carrying on your normal life?

What the hell have this to do with what I said? I just said that sonnambulism is a proof that sleep paralysis and dream are not tied togheter. That there are specifical chemicals released when the body falls asleep doesn't change this absolutely. I told you, in fact, than when the body doesn't give signals no more to the brain it is much easier to start dreaming, but it is not automatic (or maybe only at beginning) nor it is necessary to have the body asleep to start dreaming.

Again, SP and dreams usually coincides (for various reasons), but one can exist without the other, and you can experience one without the other, so one is not needed to obtain the other, it can be useful, but not necessary. And then, it also depends on what you want to do.

And... what about councious projection? What do I do to "start dreaming" when I exit the body immediatly after entering paralysis? Not sure what youre trying to say here but phasing into the astral or counciously projecting outwards are both very easy to accomplish from the "trance" state.

I was saying that you can enter sleep paralysis by just staying still enough time but that will not mean that you will start dreaming. They are two SEPARATE processes.

What are you trying to get at? This is completly irrelevant and sadly your intuition has failed you once again. You are a grown woman? Shocking, I think most people here can agree that we assumed your were quite young and immature.

It was just a joke, child. Again you are overeacting.

You are looking from implications in places where there were none.

Again I was joking. I just did to you what you always do with my posts. It is not so good, isn't it? Let's see if now you understand it.

[Selea]

There are people whom seem to have exhibited symptoms kundalini literature traditionally mentions, without any history of meditation or esoteric practice.

There are some people that experience rising of Kundalini in only certain chakras (usually only the root or spleen) but this is not properly awakening. However as I said there are predisposed people that can awake Kundalini unconsciously given the means. But in this case the result is much worser.

People Like El Collie suffered their entire lives from these symptoms, with severe gastric and nerve troubles beside. She also related, like many others, that her body would be directed to take specific poses.

Again, rising the Kundalini in the root chakra is not awakening her. It is all another thing. There are some people that think that just because they can "see" a snake rise, or because they do meditation on the chakras only they are "awakening" Kundalini. Meditation is not enough, you have to really stir a determinate current, identify with it and raise throught the top of your head. You need specific practices to do it, it doesn't come by itself not is reproducible in other ways (or better, there are others, but they are even more difficult to produce).

There are also the writings of Gopi Krishna relating his similar life-long experiences.

Yes, but after he really awakened Kundalini himself, before he only had brief risings of the same.

I don't have a problem with people saying that Kundalini has been trumped up, and is billed as a metaphysical cureall, since it seems to bring more suffering than anything, but it is clear, at least to me, that people, especially those with meditative practices, have been experiencing a phenomenon of physiological changes, regardless of what you want to think about the phenomenon.

If Kundalini brings suffering then or you haven't awakend but only rised her in the root (or at best the spleen), or you exchange a thing for another. To awaked Kundalini you need at last Dhyana (better Samadhi), and with it all these emotional discards should exists no more.

[Selea]

Silly me, I'd call that lying.  Thank you for making it clear that you are person that will manipulate certain things.  I think I almost have you figured out.

Yes, you are right. I'm lying just because I don't want to be pestered by idiots asking me to make friends or wanting to chat all the day.

I manipulate others because I always expose myself explaining totally what I mean by things, this is just what somebody that wants to hide something does. How not, you have really all figured out, above all what you figured is not biased but what you want to see at all, I see.

But, as it always happens with you, have you said ANYTHING AT ALL constructive on the arguemnt apart attacking me personally? It is possible that really you have nothing better to do, like pheraphs replying on what you think is incorrect on what I said about Kundalini?