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Author Topic: Human Evolution  (Read 1498 times)
LightBeam
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« on: August 13, 2018, 06:55:09 »

Hi all,

What is your opinion on the human evolution. Do you believe we have evolve from apes in a natural way - environment and climate changes?

Do you believe the above, but also with alien interference perhaps to change our DNA along the way and give us periodic boosts in intelligence?

Do you believe already "formed" homo sapiense were palced on earth either by God as christianity tends to think or perhaps by aliens?

Do you believe our bodies are designed to eat both meat and plants. I have heard many philosophers arguing plant only eating due to some biological body specifications. But sceince studies show that plant only diet lacks some essential nutrients that can only be supplied by animal products.


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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 09:09:45 »

Jeez!... :-oThat a lots of questions  in one thread shocked
I have a recollection of being curious about the evolution and all that it implies , somehow I still feel that it’s got mystery that we may not be able to grasp in its totality, but worth taking about it , what else is there to talk about when you start digging grin
Hard also to think in linear way. Obviously there is much to observe in nature and see how it evolves  but there is time it actually could show some kind of changes that may not all be explain by the natural laws of evolution , the one that we are told or that were observe in the way science work.
I am only speaking from what I feel to be , not one bit scientifically knowing this  grin If you actually take the messy affaires of what our minds do and influence our body and how we on top of this see it , you can really see where this can get confusing and hard to box it in a nice drawer.
Don’t mind me I am just babbling none sense. Some truth slip in when I pay more attention but really only for me it actually makes sense.  rolleyes
Oh sorry got to go write a intro before I get lost in conversation... can’t help myself ...love chatting  wink
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 09:42:49 »

Plume sounding like me! lol.


hmmm... my opinion on the human evolution.

None of them really fit my type of view of thinking except somehow we  came to be with plan. Something is placed that helps guide you can say.
It can be 99% random but that 1% non random can guied the way with/through the random.

So although climate and stuff are 'random', it helps the 1% Evolution factor further evolve.

Just a thought Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 14:34:17 »

I think that there are multiple plans at work, here on Earth. Some are physical, some are spiritual, in nature. Some plans have been introduced after the initial plans and may be at cross-purposes, thus complicating the situation for those of us who choose to be inhabitants.

Personally, my whole life, I've really not had a problem reconciling the various religious traditions along with ET involvement and what I perceive as the energetic evolution of our consciousness within these human animal constructs. The apparent genetic "missing link" of primate evolution that led to modern humans? Okay, some aliens modified us genetically...as to their ultimate purpose, I don't know...but the history seems to point at that; it's a satisfactory explanation for the "gap". It does seem to benefit the spiritual evolution part of the equation...

What has become somewhat apparent to me over the last twenty years is that MANY of these theories are possible, if not already evident to us.

Context is always important, so I will add some here. This one disturbed me a bit. It comes from a guy named Charles Fort, who spent 20 plus years back in the early 1900's at the British Museum and the New York Public Library, researching scientific reports, magazines, newspapers and periodicals on the rather bizarre aspects of contemporary reporting: UFO's (before there even were such things), fish falls, raining frogs, weird mists and spiderwebs that reached into the skies...all the strange stuff that never got followed up on. He wrote about these strange occurrences in several books, one of which was the Book of the Damned.
Keep in mind that this was before the common advent of the airplane; the majority of people really did not know what existed above and beyond the clouds. Speculation abounded as to people and even entire civilizations living above the clouds, just beyond our sight. The concept of gravity was questionable in just how far it extended beyond their practical, ground-level understanding. Many concepts that we take for granted today remained in question during their time. It is interesting to read Fort's speculations along these lines as it gives us insight into what may be presumed as a somewhat naïve and ignorant view of the world, but also a fresh and imaginative perspective, as well.

At one point in the book, Fort wonders about a distant world named Cyclorea, where the inhabitants visit Earth. But they are so far in advance of us that contact is really pointless- he asks, would we, in their place, establish diplomatic relations with farm animals?

Then he makes a statement that really struck home for me.

"I think we're property.
I should say we belong to something: That once upon a time, that this Earth was No-Man's Land, that other worlds explored and colonized here, and fought among themselves for possession, but that now it's owned by something..."

That statement hit hard and it may be true. But then I thought about it from a higher altitude and realized that the roughly 7 billion of us on this planet probably chose to be here. Whether we are 7 billion souls or fragments or shards or splinters or whatever we are, we probably, somehow chose to be here. In that sense, this human body that we each possess, may be serving other purposes that we did not initially understand. This human body that I inhabit, that I "think" that I possess, may in fact be somebody's farm animal. I may not like that idea, but maybe that's not important. What is important is that while I am here I can make use of it for my own purposes. I can live and learn and evolve.

It makes the world a far greater place, more mystifying and even a bit frightening.
 
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Phildan1
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 20:13:33 »

Pretty interesting. This reminds me Monroe's loosh experience, at that time when I first read the three book I couldn't find a translation for the word in my language so I was a little bit confused but the whole story tells the core that why humanity is there. Maybe not and it was a misunderstood speculation on his part. But one thing is sure that there are many evidences that the whole humanity is much older than just thousands of years and there are Sumerian tablets pointing back to 400.000 years in time so there could be something to extraterrestrial seeding. If people would know it or if it would spread, humanity would be in great fear, totally misunderstanding this thing. We are ET's to others, right?

Btw even if this is not the first human civilization, money and greed (big hands as I call those groups) are totally ruining it and the masses are too weak to do something. And maybe those billions are really coming here from addiction ("coming back") as we can see it day in and out. But I'm not pleased about what humanity is doing to each other, the general consciousness or awareness level is too low like the most are little kids in a kindergarten. Well maybe we all are to some degree. Good people with kind heart will suffer from them but I guess somebody needs to show the way to change them passively.
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« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2018, 20:13:33 »



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« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2018, 22:25:44 »

Hi Philand1 wink
Just a note to say that you have some cool numbers when you posted 3:13:33 love my numbers you know and you post 144 messages.  rolleyes
Sorry I notice numbers and love to wink at them.
BTw , I don’t really care if I am being farm like the way it may be perceive , we could also be playing games of spitting ourself  just because we can and taking a ride all along. And who is “they “ really ....Huh

I say that and at the same time I see how much pain some have to go to become aware that we all have a say when we power ourselves , it’s a matter to shine and make this a place that we can all express our being in some kind of harmony. The more I look the more I see equally that there is amazing beautiful expression but often that will bore the mass that wants drama to feel alive so we as a mass choose to focus on those aspects and make this come through. Not that we need to ignore those possibilities , just be aware how you give it energy is the key to keep it balanced.
Also the conversation about the reason we chose a special diet is about a choice from what I want to consume so I can be energized now from all it has to offer, the farming industry is awful and honestly cruel , hard to subscribe to that form of consumption. If having to eat flesh was all part of a balanced way to live in a harmonious way I would not see that being a issue and then meat may be part of what I would consider a good source of energy. Then again I don’t like meat, I love chocolate cakes  and would be happy to just eat that for breakfast, lunch and dinner rolleyes I am on strict diet has you can see but boy oh boy it’s worth it.  grin
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« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 22:28:15 by Plume » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2018, 22:42:04 »

Noticed that lol. I'm watching out for them too in my life.



Plume, in a parallel universe, somebody is on a strict "Plume diet" Smiley If not on human vs meat lol. But meat with eggs is a good protein source so meat deniers (no, not you) should consider this as we "evolved" eating everything.

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« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2018, 23:40:23 »

Quote
meat with eggs is a good protein source so meat deniers (no, not you) should consider this as we "evolved" eating everything.
Of course I am for freedom for everyone to eat what they want, and yes, certainly we 'can' eat at least cooked meat, so from this viewpoint we are also carnivores and therefore omnivores.

I still think the 'good for evolution' argument is debatable imv. It is still often quoted this way from a 'science' view but seems outdated.

Newest discoveries showed that our ancestors were mainly on a plant-based diet (entirely or mainly herbivores) and only as exceptions did the hunting for meat. Also our digestive system and the chewing mechanism is more apt for plant- than meat-based eating and more similar to animals of this kind (herbivores). So it shows we rather 'evolved' as herbivores.

Also our nearest ones on Earth, the apes, are not really carnivores either. They eat also almost plant-based and always were, meat with a few insects are also the exception.

Here's one link I just found quickly: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

 cool

Cannot find more links now, had a few studies, but I remember I read it here and there. Of course, opinions on this may differ, also among so-called experts.

(Btw. I do not believe in the strictly Darwinist theory evolution but this is a topic I do not want to debate any longer here or elsewhere  wink ).
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 01:38:20 »

Hmm, I don't think we evolved from apes at least not all of us. I actually think we evolved or were genetically modified from a variety of earth inhabitants. Yes that includes apes, lol.

I don't think human intelligence evolved though. If that were true then this type intelligence would be more wide spread than just within mankind. So my thought is that yes indeed we were manipulated - by God(s), Aliens - who knows. Likely a mess of everything you can perceive.

I think we are capable of consuming pretty much anything as a collective. Of course we have to be careful as although your neighbor might can consume motor oil it doesn't mean you can. My point is that this points to a huge diversity that only a few other native Earth animals posses. This tells (me) we should eat whatever our bodies will allow. One thing we do is obsess way too much about diet.

If anyone has ever been in a starvation (or nutrient dire) situation they could probably tell you that your body KNOWS what it needs. If there is a chance IT will eat IT whether your brain agrees or not. I know I've been there.
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 04:10:58 »

Well my body thinks I need sugary stuff and it works since decades lol. But it can be addictive and causing bad choices indeed.

Just people need to ask one thing from themselves. Where the human race fits into the food chain on this planet? Not mentioning accidental or stupid deaths by stronger animals lol. The human body is not really similar to any other animals by look and accuracy. It was designed, right? Right Cheesy
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2018, 07:43:06 »

Well my body thinks I need sugary stuff and it works since decades lol. But it can be addictive and causing bad choices indeed.

Just people need to ask one thing from themselves. Where the human race fits into the food chain on this planet? Not mentioning accidental or stupid deaths by stronger animals lol. The human body is not really similar to any other animals by look and accuracy. It was designed, right? Right Cheesy

1. Looks are deceiving

2. The reason rodents are used as models in medical testing is that their genetic, biological and behavior characteristics closely resemble those of humans, and many symptoms of human conditions can be replicated in mice and rats

3. A sugary diet will sicken you badly, even if you take your sugar only from organic fruits.

4. Definitely a diet lacking the nutrients the human body needs isn't healthy, and will yield bad heath.

5. It would be nice to have the answers to all our questions, but we have to concentrate, in my opinion, on the practical ones: Why am I here now; what am I supposed to try to accomplish during my life? Why are humans here now; what are humans supposed to try to accomplish during their lives?

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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 09:58:08 »

Quote
What is your opinion on the human evolution. Do you believe we have evolve from apes in a natural way - environment and climate changes?

I think the system we are living in now offers sufficient explanation for how all of this happened. I think the standard view of evolution is sufficient to explain the current state of affairs. We evolved through small incremental changes which usually offered a major survival advantage, or else were neutral changes, that nonetheless set the stage for other useful changes later. Each small gain in intelligence made the individual more fit to survive and reproduce in the environment. You can add quite a lot of intelligence before intelligence stops leading to more surviving children (we seem to possibly be at that point now, but it can be argued that it is because the majority is being propped up by the intelligence of the few excellent among us now).

Now I also tend to think that this apparently physical system is embedded in another system, but while I think it was implied by your question, it is outside the scope.


Quote
Do you believe the above, but also with alien interference perhaps to change our DNA along the way and give us periodic boosts in intelligence?

I don't think we need alien intervention to explain what we currently have.

Quote
Do you believe already "formed" homo sapiense were palced on earth either by God as christianity tends to think or perhaps by aliens?

No, same answer as above to both.


Quote
Do you believe our bodies are designed to eat both meat and plants. I have heard many philosophers arguing plant only eating due to some biological body specifications. But sceince studies show that plant only diet lacks some essential nutrients that can only be supplied by animal products.


I have a bias here, since I am a vegetarian.

Looking at the evidence, based on what our nutrient-based needs are, it seems pretty clear that our genetic past expects us to be omnivores. We have adaptations for eating fruit over and above what most animals have, and we have clear needs for animal-based iron and B12.

In the modern age, we can synthesize these compounds, and so no longer have the need to obtain them from animal sources.

My argument is that animals are harmed in the production of animal products, so if we can obtain the same nutrients from artificial sources that don't lead to harming animals, that is the ethical choice.



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LightBeam
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2018, 02:17:26 »

Thanks for your input everyone. I really enjoyed reading your opinions. I placed this topic here because I meant to discuss  the most optimal healthy eating habits according to the design of our bodies, but then I tied it to the evolution because I watched a bunch of documentaries about the primates, Neanderthals and modern humans and how they hunted and gathered, how they started discovering edible grains and eventually learned how to harvest. But before that they relied mainly on meat, at least from the cavemen on, not the monkeys. For example, the people that lived in harsh winter conditions had mostly meat available and not vegetation. So, the argument that we are not designed to eat meat is inaccurate. Even nowadays the Eskimos cant possibly eat variety of veggies. There is only snow and animals/fish around. I think we can digest well animal products and vegetables, unless anyone has various allergies or digestion issues for certain products. Moderation is a key to healthy habits. I think we need to eat variety of vegetables, a few fruit, very little sugar products, and some meat. No processed food with additives and artificial stuff, because that for sure we can not digest properly and it sickens our bodies overtime.

Evolution wise, I think that you are all correct as we may have come about as a combination of factors. I have no problem with extra-terrestrials monitoring and interfering with our DNA. They may have had an extra planet to spare and decided to try a few things LOL, and here we are Smiley. Do you think that if we had the opportunity to scout space and find planets, we wouldn’t have done a similar thing? Of course we would have. We can do it now, engineer a new intelligent species, but we still think this is unethical.
Environment and climate played a role in the development of skills due to the survival instincts. There are evidence of skeletons found for different species from ape all the way to Neanderthals showing a slow change of posture and physique, development of tools and skills. However, there is a gap and the scientists cant find a common ancestor between the last prehistoric human like creature and modern humans. There were the Neanderthals, but they lived the same way for thousands of years not changing anything in their skills. At the same time there were modern humans already creating art and living in a more sophisticated ways. They interbred with the Neanderthals, because there is a trace of their DNA in people from Europe, but modern humans did not develop from the Neanderthals. Our DNA shows no other traces. So I am inclined to think that someone modified the DNA of our closest prehistoric ancestors because they were not developing as fast. Also, in the last 200 years we may have been given another boost, because we have achieved in these last 200 years a million times more than in the previous 2000 years, not to mention the past 2 million years since the rise of the homo erectus.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 02:52:12 by LightBeam » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2018, 05:46:39 »

Quote
They interbred with the Neanderthals, because there is a trace of their DNA in people from Europe, but modern humans did not develop from the Neanderthals. Our DNA shows no other traces. So I am inclined to think that someone modified the DNA of our closest prehistoric ancestors because they were not developing as fast. Also, in the last 200 years we may have been given another boost, because we have achieved in these last 200 years a million times more than in the previous 2000 years, not to mention the past 2 million years since the rise of the homo erectus.

Cro Magnon seems to be the primary lineage we descended from. The Neanderthals do seem to factor in, but only at 10-25%. Humans also have curious genes here or there that we seem to share only with pigs. 2% or so of our genome has this overlap. There are some wild theories that chimps somehow bred with boars to produce the hominid lineage that lead to Neanderthals and Cro Magnon (there is one place in Africa where the two species coexist).


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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2018, 09:16:25 »

I could not agree with you more LightBeam. I think there is no one way or one answer to your questions. I've ponder these same thoughts myself so many times. There is something different and evolution alone just does not add up.

The simple fact that we can consume just about anything tells me there is no 'single' diet for mankind. Fighting about it is just ridiculous. And mankind does have a unique intelligence that can't all be credited to just having an opposable thumb.

There are so many mysteries. I personally don't think we are the first of the intelligent human or humanoid on this planet. Also don't think those ancient ones were the first either.

Very good topic and conversation. smiley
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« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2018, 10:27:07 »

There are so many mysteries. I personally don't think we are the first of the intelligent human or humanoid on this planet. Also don't think those ancient ones were the first either.


Yes, absolutely! Mind boggling though when you think of millions of years. The earth's climate and look had changed so many times as well as the species of animals, vegetation, intelligent creatures over such a long period of time that I cant even comprehend. Who know what the continuum will be. Fascinating though.
 
Another thing I thought of for optimal health is movement. Our bodies were designed to move and keep blood circulating to cleanse our organs. However, the technological revolution sort of lead us to a very static life styles. Today the kids play videogames and communicate with friends through social media instead of playing outside and meeting friends. Grown people too sit and watch TV after 8 hrs at the office sitting at a desk, sitting in a car. Some people schedule 1 hr workouts 3 times per week typically, but that's not nearly enough to keep our blood circulating and our muscles and joints strong and flexible. I do have an office job, but I make a point to stand every half hour and walk around, stretch my legs and arms, lift some small weights that are at my desk. I take a walk around the neighborhood in the evening. You can perform leg movements and twists even while you are sitting at your desk.

Also what I have noticed with my eating habits is that when I stop eating around 5 or 6 PM, the next morning I feel so light and energetic. Our digestive system needs a longer break especially while sleeping besides digesting to focus on repairs if needed and toxins removal. If there is no break or too short of a one, the body will never have a chance to regenerate itself because digestion is its number one priority. I think in the past people did not eat so much, such a big portions and so frequently as we do today. This is another problem with eating habits.
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« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2018, 12:57:10 »

All about the food  rolleyes I did a watermelon fast for 4 days boy oh boy that was hard .,,
so ...If we do have the capacity and the possibility to influence our body needs and to be nourished wouldn’t you want to do it in the best manner that you feel fit for all and equally respectful to all creature that you become aware of , obviously it depends on our intelligence and our choice and in what environment we live now  also how we are all supported . We could be making big change in this present so we can have the future we would dream to have. Not much to sacrifice when you become interested in what we “really need” and respectively how we understand our past makeup , at the same time feel that’s it’s not what set the rules ,  we can live differently now when so much alternative is available. A matter of personal choice ...hard to ignore when those thoughts have materialized now in my awareness. Jeez! Much easier to just be and not wonder to much ...
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« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2018, 13:11:06 »

Not much to sacrifice when you become interested in what we “really need” and respectively how we understand our past makeup , at the same time feel that’s it’s not what set the rules ,  we can live differently now when so much alternative is available. A matter of personal choice ...hard to ignore when those thoughts have materialized now in my awareness. Jeez! Much easier to just be and not wonder to much ...

Yes, the past should not set the rules, as we are everchanging. But the statistic shows that nowadays people are so much sicker than in the past when the food was cleaner, simpler and there was more physical activity, not to mention cleaner environment. Yes, today's life expectancy is the highest but this is because of all the meds that are keeping people alive, however in more suffering. It would be so nice not to worry too much. When I was young I ate everything I pleased and stayed thin and healthy. I never thought that when I start getting older my body will start reacting if I dont change my lifestyle. So, that's another life's challenge I guess, but again we should not be too obsessed. Moderations and wise approach to keep the balance and enjoyment of food and life.
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