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Author Topic: A simple question  (Read 7074 times)
Starvingpercussionist
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All truths are half truths, or so I've been told.


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« on: June 05, 2008, 03:19:00 »

If truth is reality, then does truth encompass lies?
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THE ANSWER PARADOX
The answer to all paradoxes shows this: "Reality contains logic therefore logic cannot contain reality."
The paradox here is "how can one know this is true?".

If the answer to one paradox is another then the question is the answer.
Vitruvian
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 04:48:16 »

Heck, I don't know, but on the other hand I think I've figured out why you're starving . . .  grin (joke)
Vitruvian
PS - I'm not going to accept your premise (truth=reality) in the first place - I'd go along with the idea that both truth and lies are a subset of reality, though . . . however if you accept that, you're done (because then reality, not truth would encompass lies: the antithesis of your premise), and you'd have to go back to practicing on the drums instead of pondering these types of questions.
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The Astral Pulse
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 04:48:16 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Alan McDougall
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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 05:58:55 »

Well they say "God" is truth and he really allows us to lie, does he not

So my answer is "YES"

"Is that liar telling the truth", yes said he that spoke truth"

It is impossible to imagine an impossibility

Alan
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Alan
candyfloss
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2009, 04:05:52 »

I thought God was against lying?
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2009, 20:37:43 »

If truth is reality, then does truth encompass lies?
Depends on how you define 'reality'.

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I thought God was against lying?
No, the human establishments are against 'lying'.  And possibly lying is not good for a human for many reasons.
But God does not require honesty, because God (at least by definition) is Omniscient.
However, lies affect others differently.  That's why so many systems of religious thought stress 'love' as the driving force.  Then honesty becomes beneficial.

This of course, is my considered opinion.


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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2009, 20:37:43 »



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Leannain
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2009, 23:52:52 »

What when one rejects 'God'? Does the truth of 'God' become the lies of the one who rejects 'God'?
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 00:52:43 »

Accepting or rejecting has nothing to do with truth.  You can reject the sun that's in the sky, but rejecting it won't make it a lie, or affect the sun in any way.  You can reject or accept the sun; the sun does not care, it's light will warm you or burn you just the same.
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Leannain
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2009, 12:08:00 »

Accepting or rejecting has nothing to do with truth.  You can reject the sun that's in the sky, but rejecting it won't make it a lie, or affect the sun in any way.  You can reject or accept the sun; the sun does not care, it's light will warm you or burn you just the same.


If there's a 300 pounds male, and a 150 pounds male, who is the strongest? The truth: the one with the 300 pounds. Yet, the 150 pounds if he works harder etc, becomes as strong, possibly, stronger than the 300 pounds. Where's the truth now?

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Fourthdimension
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2009, 12:45:23 »

I think there is a lot of valid points made here.

Vitruvian said that truth is'nt reality but is made up of lies and truths.

example" Modern day society would choose to be death is the end of us, the stage we "cease to exsist" and if they believe in god they believe we are seperate from god and so far away" - The lie

"Modern day society choose's to believe death is the end/cease stage and that god is seperate from us and so far away yet in our life's god walks every foot step with us and takes every breath with us and as we breath it not only does it fill our lungs with air but it fills god's lungs with  air because we are one with god, we are god and have never been apart from him and because of that we can not really die only shred our shell, our physical body" - Truth (i believe)

but in order for us to experience death or imperfection or god or truth or lies we first have to percieve the opposite something that does nt really exisist and that is why god makes a paradox for us to experience.

So our reality here aint the same of that in the astral/spirit world so mabye different realities are just created for us at  different stages of our delevopment for us to learn

so god does nt allow us to lie instead he creates the lie for us and because he is all-knowing what diffrence would our lie's make to him if he know they are only lies and can read our every intentions.

"What when one rejects 'God'? Does the truth of 'God' become the lies of the one who rejects 'God'?"

There are some abstracts and aspects of god that you can and cant deny for instance like cft said what will the sun care if you deny it it will still be there long after you and still shine upon you.

It all depends on what we have the power to change and deny. Physical aspects of god such as the enviroment or you you cant change you cant make yourself a man instead of a women or women instead of a man. you cant make your self taller or smaller. you cant pluck the sun from the sky or engulf the stars with a blanket of darkness. because these are part of the reality in this life created for us and conditions that cannot be changed

but leanin said
"If there's a 300 pounds male, and a 150 pounds male, who is the strongest? The truth: the one with the 300 pounds. Yet, the 150 pounds if he works harder etc, becomes as strong, possibly, stronger than the 300 pounds. Where's the truth now?"

well i dont believe any of it is truth because none are stronger than they other as they are the same made in god's image and the physical body is just another type of illusion a vechile to travel in and so in this case it does not matter who has the biggest arms but instead its who has the biggest will. who is most motivated. ok you cant change who has bigger arms in an instant but you can change other conditions such as will or motivation and that is how the apparent truth can either be the 150 pound or the 300 pound.

i say apparent because iut is just that it is not the truth but only the truth that we perceive as neither is stronger

so then why can you change this but u canty pluck out the sun its cause rules and laws have been made by god that you cannot break because they are your experience and conditions are nt the same.

just my thoughts and believes. Take care


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CFTraveler
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2009, 14:50:30 »


If there's a 300 pounds male, and a 150 pounds male, who is the strongest? The truth: the one with the 300 pounds. Yet, the 150 pounds if he works harder etc, becomes as strong, possibly, stronger than the 300 pounds. Where's the truth now?


I'm sorry, maybe I'm slow this morning without my second cup of coffee, but what does the ability to transform have to do with truth?  There is truth, which changes with time and space, not 'ultimate', and there is Truth, which is conceptual.  Which one are you referring to?  And what does this have to do with a lie?  I'm afraid I am not understanding your replies/questions.
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 14:57:52 »

I think there is a lot of valid points made here.

Vitruvian said that truth is'nt reality but is made up of lies and truths.


I agree, and that's why I use 'truth' to mean that which is true at a time, but can change, and Truth, which is immutable, and like I said, conceptual.
The word 'lie' is tricky, because it allows for the deliberate misrepresentation of truth.  Or does it?  What are we calling a 'lie' here?  A mistake is not a lie, because oftentimes is honest, based on perception, but a lie is when someone knows they are misrepresenting what they believe to be the truth.  There is choice here, and they have made it.
So, philosophically speaking the Truth by definition is always the truth.  You can see it or not see it, but it is always there.  You can live your truth, and it can be considered someone else's lie, but it is your truth.  So....
I'd say yes, truth can include errors, it can even include lies, but Truth doesn't even care, because it is what it is.
Since this is the philosophy forum, I'm assuming we are free to believe what we want.
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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 20:29:33 »

If truth is reality, then does truth encompass lies?


Looks like you've rediscovered Godel's theorem from the 1930's.  He took the apparent contradiction you raise and did it all over again with pure math,  and proved that calculus (and every single other recursive system imaginable) produces seemingly contradictory statements.


Yes, truth does encompass lies.  The transcendence necessary to see the truth in this statement is also what gives rise to change, time, and all number of other dimensions that are transcendental in nature and can't be understood from the inside looking out.
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