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Author Topic: Life is an ego trip controlled by your desires?  (Read 7798 times)
Eliaz
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« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2013, 19:04:25 »

I think you guys just over think this whole thing and just can't consider the possibility that we, who are all selfless, caring, loving etc. personalities, have this very "selfish" motivation deep down in our core to make ourselves feel good.
I mean, it is funny how people react when they are forced to think outside of their comfort zones and how their beliefs about themselves stops them to even theoretically admit the possibility of something that doesn't fit into the picture they have about themselves.
I don't always look for what's in it for me when I help someone, but I can't recall a single case when when helping someone out didn't make me feel good or leave me feel satisfied at least a bit. So, all I am saying that  for me there is always this feel good aspect to it, no matter what the price or the gain is.

Indeed, indeed. And this is what I mean, that "feel good aspect" if that didn't exist I guess people would not bother to do anything good at all. It is that feeling and desire that bring out the goodness of people, but they are really just gaining it.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 19:06:14 by Eliaz » Logged
LightBeam
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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2013, 20:40:35 »

So, Eliaz, if you happen to do something nice for me, would it be ok if instead of thanking you I say " You are so selfish, I know why you did it. I bet you feel real good, don't you" lol jk  grin
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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2013, 20:40:35 »

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Szaxx
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« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2013, 22:24:49 »

The feel good aspect is naturally in all of us that care. If it didn't exist at all then things like procreation would be too much bother. The result is no more humans. There has to be some form of selfless act for humanity itself to survive. Imagine extreme selfishness, no female would want to endure labour and birth. A balance must exist. Cqn you find it in your thinking on this topic?
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Eliaz
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2013, 22:37:45 »

So, Eliaz, if you happen to do something nice for me, would it be ok if instead of thanking you I say " You are so selfish, I know why you did it. I bet you feel real good, don't you" lol jk  grin

Yeah, but that's the thing, we don't see it. You also a part of the dance, so if I'm doing something nice for you are also gaining something by it, but it's me who is doing the dance for my reasons, for the thing which I want to achieve by doing something nice for you. ex If I were buy you a nice lovely present there must be a reason behind that action, right? If the present makes you happy it will make me happy too, we both gain something which makes it kind of a win-win situation. So you have no reason to be mad at me Sad
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Eliaz
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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2013, 23:01:51 »

The feel good aspect is naturally in all of us that care. If it didn't exist at all then things like procreation would be too much bother. The result is no more humans. There has to be some form of selfless act for humanity itself to survive. A balance must exist. Cqn you find it in your thinking on this topic?

Yes indeed it must exist or humanity would be in a much worse state than it is today, that is why I belive that there are different levels of selfishness, it depends on how trapped you are inside of your own ego. I belive that without doing good we would never be able to survive as a civilization. I also belive that there must be a balance between good and bad, as there is a balance in everything else. But is there really anything that's bad or good or is it just our way of labelling things? If you do something good for your own good, and I do something bad for my own good, why would that make you a better person? Yes, in the eyes of civilization it makes you a better person, but in the eye's of nature and survival does it really matter? I think it depends on how you look at life and the meaning of life, but as we can see most creatures on earth strive for their survival. So if a person survive best by doing bad is he really that much worse than a person that survive best by doing good, when both are just striving for their own survival?

Imagine extreme selfishness, no female would want to endure labour and birth.

I don't understand what you mean by this sentence, isn't labour and child birth both selfish acts? Labour is the way of surviving in this world, and child birth is the desire of women to reproduce.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 23:51:42 by Eliaz » Logged
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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2013, 23:01:51 »



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LightBeam
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« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2013, 23:04:20 »

we both gain something which makes it kind of a win-win situation. So you have no reason to be mad at me Sad

I was just joking  tongue, but that was exactly my point because it is a win win situation it wouldn't be called selfishness on either party's end.

I guess, selflessness exists only in theory? What's your take on that?
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Eliaz
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« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2013, 23:32:37 »

I was just joking  tongue, but that was exactly my point because it is a win win situation it wouldn't be called selfishness on either party's end.

I guess, selflessness exists only in theory? What's your take on that?

I don't think that selflessness can be experienced by a human being, as long as you are attached to your body & ego you will always strive for your own survival and well-being, so I don't think it's possible to be absolutely selflessness as long as you attached to yourself and your body. When that attachment disappears, when there is no "self", then one might be able to experience absolute selflessness. So one might say that selflessness = no self.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 23:36:03 by Eliaz » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2013, 23:35:25 »

I don't think that selflessness can exist on earth, as long as you are attached to your body & ego you will always strive for your own survival and well-being, so I don't think it's possible to be absolutely selflessness as long as you attached to yourself and your body. When that attachment disappears, when there is no "self", then one might be able to experience absolute selflessness. So one might say that selflessness = no self.

That about sums it up in my book.
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Szaxx
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« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2013, 00:28:17 »

Extreme selfishness is where one wishes the best for themself, no matter how they gain it. The reference to birth is a long term inconvenience mixed with pain and bodily damage.
Without any care for others this would not take place. Being a mother would never occur.
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« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2013, 00:34:31 »

Extreme selfishness is where one wishes the best for themself, no matter how they gain it. The reference to birth is a long term inconvenience mixed with pain and bodily damage.
Without any care for others this would not take place. Being a mother would never occur.

Yes, definitely, many a brave Mother, has given her life during Childbirth.

 Where's the selfishness in that act?
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Eliaz
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« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2013, 01:04:16 »

Extreme selfishness is where one wishes the best for themself, no matter how they gain it. The reference to birth is a long term inconvenience mixed with pain and bodily damage.
Without any care for others this would not take place. Being a mother would never occur.


There is different levels of selfishness depending on how big of an ego you have, but every act is still selfish. Yes, childbirth involves suffering but that's the sacrifice the mother has to make in order to gain a child that she desires. If she had no desire to reproduce, she would never even bother to get one in the first place right? So it is her own wishes to birth a child and the pain is a sacrifice many mothers gladly take in order to make their wishes come true.

Yes, definitely, many a brave Mother, has given her life during Childbirth.

 Where's the selfishness in that act?

Yes, there is also selfishness in that act. When a mother birth a child the child pretty much becomes the meaning in her life, so she value her childs life much more then her own. So the pain she will feel when she loses something that has more value to her then her own life, knowing that she had the chance to save it, would be too big for her to endure, so she rather give up her life for the child to save herself of the pain that she would feel later on. Which is also a sacrifice many parents gladly take, but it is still in a way, selfish.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 01:15:10 by Eliaz » Logged
Lionheart
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« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2013, 01:26:27 »

Yes, there is also selfishness in that act. When a mother birth a child the child pretty much becomes the meaning in her life, so she value her childs life much more then her own. So the pain she will feel when she loses something that has more value to her then her own life, knowing that she had the chance to save it, would be too big for her to endure, so she rather give up her life for the child to save herself of the pain that she would feel later on. Which is also a sacrifice many parents gladly take, but it is still in a way, selfish.
I'm sorry, but this makes completely no sense at all.  rolleyes

 I have a feeling you are just disagreeing for the simple fact of disagreeing.

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Eliaz
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« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2013, 01:45:14 »

I'm sorry, but this makes completely no sense at all.  rolleyes

 I have a feeling you are just disagreeing for the simple fact of disagreeing.



I'm sorry if I sound a bit confusing, english isn't my first language but I'll try to explain it another way.

Imagine a man who has a lovely child and value and loves his child more than anything in the world, wouldn't he do anything he can for that child, even if it meant giving up his own life for it? So let's say that he and his child got in a car accident and the father were given a choice of two possible scenarios where one of them dies.

He would rather choose the scenario where he is the one who dies and the child lives, wouldn't he? So, there must be a reason for that choice, for the sacrifice he makes for the child. And that reason is that the other scenario, where the parent lives and the child dies, is not even a life worth living, because it would be a life of torture.

So he sacrifice his own life and jump into death rather than the choice of living in a life full of misery and pain without the child. With that said, doesn't he choose the best possible outcome for himself which is in that case, death? Because we don't always value our own life as the most important thing we have, and if we were given a choice, to give up that life instead of living a life full of misery and pain, why woulnd't we give it up?

It's kind of similar to a suicidal man, he doesn't want to keep on living because his life is full of misery and pain which is too much for him to endure, or that he simply found no meaning in life and just wanted to end it all. So when he takes his own life people will say that he made a selfish act to the people he left behind.

And as you can see in the two stories they both choose death because the idea of living in misery and pain and or without meaning simply was not worth it so death seemed like the better option. I mean we're all facing death someday, so giving it up when life really is at its worst state isn't really the hardest thing to do for some people.

So, doesn't both these men now make a choice which they belive is the best possible outcome, which is death?

The only difference is that people is thinking of the suicidal man as selfish, and not the parent who gave up his life for his child, because we judge their actions based on our feelings and worldviews and not based on theirs. But he did it for himself, just like the suicidal man.
If the father were to lose all of his abilities of feelings and empathy for the child before he made the choice, he wouldn't have given his own life for the child, because then it would simply be a choice based on survival and not feelings.
It is the feeling of loss and regret that the he can't stand, the idea that he would keep on living a life where he had a choice to save his child but didn't, that's a life he could not live, the father gains more by giving up his life than he does by keeping it, so death is the ultimate answer which will bring him the most value in that case.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 04:19:58 by Eliaz » Logged
rain_88
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« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2013, 18:51:15 »

It makes perfect sense to me, I think it is a quite coherent package of thoughts, not just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

And what makes you think than women who give birth are all brave and selfless amazons? There are so many reasons to give birth to a child and so many of them are selfish and abusive.

I've got the feeling that the windows on your idealistic bubbles are due to a cleaning.
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Wi11iam
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« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2013, 08:21:48 »

Yes - ego is essential to the ability to express "I Am" as a conscious entity.

What is being focused upon here is more the human ego and there is no reason to undermine 'feeling good' and desire as being somehow absent or something other than love.

The 'trip' is the thing which equates to the environment.  The 'ego' is that which is experiencing that environment and reacting to the environment it is tripping through.

Desire does not control but is often the thing which is allocated the responsibility of control but the ego is the real controlling element because it is part of the consciousness whereas desire is the emotional reflex often produced by the body...ego is ultimately the controller.

It is preference to feel good for many reasons and these are not all necessarily bad - often the feeling accompanies the reflex and expression - it is part of the reflex and transforms to being part of the motivator because it has proved itself to be worthwhile - feeling good by doing something nice, so continue doing nice - not just because it feels good but also because of the consequence which often accompanies the action of being nice...is far better than the feelings and consequences of being nasty - work it.

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