Question about Phasing as a explanation model.

[Mustardseed]

Hi James
How have you been . Thanks for the post, yea I have also tried both and settled for I guess what appears to be an in between using elements of both, however that is not my issue. What I am asking about and hope to get clarified is Phasings (Franks) overall view on spiritual phenomena. It seemed to me that Robert provided plausible theories and suggestions to explain things that I know to be true in my life. He never claimed to have the whole truth but merely tried to put into western words what other cultures have their own lingo for. At least that's what I understand. He attempted to describe the phenomena and chose words like energy points or centers instead of Chacra, negs instead of demons etc etc.

It seems to me that Frank is quite inexperienced in the spiritual aspects of these things, and have chosen to postulate that these things only exist in your mind, in other words that they are not real, if we define real something that appears to all. (i.e. the Taj Mahal is real cause we can all see it and experience it by going to Agra)

In other words negs as I previously understood them to work even before I read any of Roberts material, is only in my head, a subjective reality of sorts .

I certainly hope that this is not offensive to anyone especially Frank, but I find it questionable that he seems such a Phasing Fundi, I find it very hypocritical and misguided  for him to say

"I alone know the truth I alone can explain it I alone have the model, all that went before me were mystics frauds and power trippers, so buy my book and I will tell you all about it" This is not a quote from Frank he never used those words but seems to imply this attitude.

Doug re iterates this attitude and it seems so weird that they do not realize that they are guilty of the very things they accuse Mystics of.

Here is a little story for you Imagine........

Robert Bruce Adrian and Frank standing around. Adrian and Robert both with their hands tucked inside their shirts talking.

Robert.......I am Napoleon

Adrian.......WHAT!!! that's not true, you cant be 'cause I AM NAPOLEON

Robert...... No way, what makes you think you are, when I know I am

Adrian.......God told me man

Frank........That's not true, I never said any such thing

A slightly more humoristic way of explaining the point I am trying to make

Regards Mustardseed

[James S]

Umm, Mustard,

You might want to start steering your posts back onto more solid ground. You started out on this topic ok, but comments like your last one get real boring real quick. They're just not worth discussing.

Please consider.
James.

[Mustardseed]

Hi James

I think I will take your advise, ha it seems that I am doing all the talking and no one really wants to get involved in this debate. I wonder why that is. ?

It is my guess that the moderators and maybe others on the AP have too much vested interest in Phasing and maybe this is clouding the issue. No one talks James, no one answers question just..........silence.

One thing is to present a method, as a alternative viewpoint, another thing is to present it as an Ultimate truth. I guess I could soon get an answer that says something like "you want answers read my book", it wont be the first time. How does the green lady fit in James, is she a fiction of your imagination?

I tried for a light hearted approach, but I get the feeling that folks take themselves too serious.......that little burp is actually my favorite joke, I tell it to myself when I get too high and mighty ha.

So help me out here how do you think I should go about steering this back to solid ground, without getting boring? Is this a question I am alone in asking, is this of any kind of interest to anyone but me.

Regards Mustardseed

[Gandalf]

One thing is to present a method, as a alternative viewpoint, another thing is to present it as an Ultimate truth.

But that's all the phasing approach claimes to be... another method. The method is not the ultimate truth, all any method does is allow you to (hopefully) go and discover the ultimate reality for yourself (which will be a long process).  But like all new developments, this method is trying to improve on previous ones. It doesnt cancel out other methods. People can choose whatever method they like. In fact you often see people combining the phasing model with other approaches.. this too is possible.

The reason is that the phasing approach is the boiled down version. It contains the essential elements of all the other methods but is stripped down to bare essentials to aid explanation. That's all that it is. People can add their own 'dressing' and additonal methods to this, including elements of RB's energy work and obe approaches. These all work and Frank himself has plenty experience of 'chackras', energy centres (even if he likes to use alternative terminology) and obe techniques and thus does not contradict RB in any way.

He does not even say 'negs' do not exist, as you suggest he does. On the contrary, he implies that whatever you believe you create. They are not just 'in your head' as if you believe in them they are *very real indeed* and take shape in specific areas of reality and can affect the afflicted. However, what Frank does suggest is that in his experience, 'negs' are *products* ie created by the afflicted themselves and the best way to avoid such situations is to increase one's own knowledge and experience of the wider reality and in this way to understand how thought equates into reality. Armed with this, you can learn to avoid neg situations. But, it is up to people to confirm this for themselves. He doesnt just ask people to accept it, but to go and find out for themselves. Anyone with a bit of experience soon starts to realise the thought = reality nature of the world. Once you see this in effect, it becomes pretty clear, at least to me, how 'neg experiences' occur. That doesnt mean they are not real and are not a serious issue, they are. But the best way to combat this issue is to understand how it comes about.

Once again, Phasing is the 'latest' approach and the most open in that it offers a bolied down approach so that everyone can undertand it and then use it to go and find things out for themselves. There is nothing in the phasing approach that contradicts what RB or anyone else has to say. It just offers a no frills approach and in some cases, a means to bypass methods that may not be strictly nececery, although some people like to continue to include them if they find them useful or enjoyable, which is just as good, each to their own. But as phasing is the new thing, it is only right that it be given a platform here. Other techniques are also covered and have dedicated forums elsewhere on the internet. Go with what you find useful, or even 'pick and mix' methods in order to find what works for you, I do.

Doug

[Mustardseed]

Hi Doug

I totally understand your post and I am glad that my understanding of Phasing is correct. This very idea is what I find a claim. That Negs just to mention one issue are nothing but a fiction of my mind, or indeed a fiction of someones  life. This makes them un real to my definition of them, in so much that they can be combatted by manifesting a attitude of non compliance (non belief).

In a way this very approach is what many people say about sickness, that it is all in your mind. Like the Christian Scientist said to a guy with a cold on the bus, "its all in your mind my friend" to which the guy replied holding his nostril open "no it ain't see....its in my nose".

The approach is in my opinion a mind trip and it is in contradiction to most other approaches, as it claims to be the underlying principle of them all, and the "Real" explanation of how it all hangs. I understand the phasing teknic and it works ok, it is the wider reality, the context if you will, that I find problematic. It seems to me that out of a teknic has grown a understanding of the world, that goes something like this.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The world as you know it is just the reality that you have chosen, it is the focus of consciousness that you have chosen to adapt, (for reasons not even known to you) nothing is real, its Maya, an illusion, in some way it is in nature as a giant lucid dream, in which you play the main part.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If this is the case then there is no right no wrong, you can do whatever you want, and like in a dream there will be no consequence to the choices you make, be selfish, unkind, aggressive egotistical it does not matter, cause it ain't real. One have to enlarge ones vision and see that its all about ONE SELF, you are number 1 the main player.

As I said phasing in itself as a teknic is fine but in the wider reality it does not address life and the issues life is made up of properly, all it does is provide people a means to live for themselves, something I believe will come back and bite them some time in the future. It seems to me to be more a product of someone wanting to write a book, and having run out of stuff about the teknic, have decided to play the "what if game"

Imagine there's no heaven its easy if you try as John Lennon sang ...............imagine. No consequence, no right no wrong no light no darkness, no God no Devil no negs, no fear nothing to be afraid of, it all is ok you are ok I am ok, lets sit back smoke a joint more and listen to a few more songs, hey look at that candle man heavy......

I am an old Hippie Doug I heard it all, this sounds a lot like old second hand hippie philosophy, nicely packaged but same old stuff.....cheech and chong "its all in your head man"

What do you think

Regards Mustardseed

[Lente]

Hi Doug


I totally understand your post and I am glad that my understanding of Phasing is correct. This very idea is what I find a claim. That Negs just to mention one issue are nothing but a fiction of my mind, or indeed a fiction of someones  life. This makes them un real to my definition of them, in so much that they can be combatted by manifesting a attitude of non compliance (non belief).

Hey Mustardseed,

I'm not Doug, but I like to say something about this.

What makes something real or unreal, in my mind everything that effects you is reality and is real, so maybe you do create those negs yourself, BUT they are real. However because they are your own creating, you can choose not to have them in your reality anymore, though this might not be as easy, because for some reason you have created them, you might be completely unaware how and why you did that, so it might be hard to actually stop creating them.

In a way this very approach is what many people say about sickness, that it is all in your mind. Like the Christian Scientist said to a guy with a cold on the bus, "its all in your mind my friend" to which the guy replied holding his nostril open "no it ain't see....its in my nose".

The approach is in my opinion a mind trip and it is in contradiction to most other approaches, as it claims to be the underlying principle of them all, and the "Real" explanation of how it all hangs. I understand the phasing teknic and it works ok, it is the wider reality, the context if you will, that I find problematic. It seems to me that out of a teknic has grown a understanding of the world, that goes something like this.......
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The world as you know it is just the reality that you have chosen, it is the focus of consciousness that you have chosen to adapt, (for reasons not even known to you) nothing is real, its Maya, an illusion, in some way it is in nature as a giant lucid dream, in which you play the main part.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If this is the case then there is no right no wrong, you can do whatever you want, and like in a dream there will be no consequence to the choices you make, be selfish, unkind, aggressive egotistical it does not matter, cause it ain't real. One have to enlarge ones vision and see that its all about ONE SELF, you are number 1 the main player.

There are no consequences outside of YOU, but you will make consequences for yourself.

Why is the idea that there is no thing outside yourself creating your reality so treatning?

As I said phasing in itself as a teknic is fine but in the wider reality it does not address life and the issues life is made up of properly, all it does is provide people a means to live for themselves, something I believe will come back and bite them some time in the future. It seems to me to be more a product of someone wanting to write a book, and having run out of stuff about the teknic, have decided to play the "what if game"

Well if you believe something you do will always come back to you it surely will.

Imagine there's no heaven its easy if you try as John Lennon sang ...............imagine. No consequence, no right no wrong no light no darkness, no God no Devil no negs, no fear nothing to be afraid of, it all is ok you are ok I am ok, lets sit back smoke a joint more and listen to a few more songs, hey look at that candle man heavy......

A little bit simplistic, but yes, about right, ain't it groovy?

I am an old Hippie Doug I heard it all, this sounds a lot like old second hand hippie philosophy, nicely packaged but same old stuff.....cheech and chong "its all in your head man"

Haha mustardseed the hippie, is that really true? Well I'm sure its not a new thing, but I don't think those hippies really had it worked out, there is more to it than "its all in your head man".




Greeting,
Rob

[Mustardseed]

Hi Rob
Sorry about the mentioning of Doug, ha glad you answered , it is naturally open for all to do so. Yep my friend just a old recycled hippie, hitchhiked to India and lived all over the Mideast Afghanistan in the early 70s, did LSD in Goa, with the full moon parties. Had my share of the vierd and vonderful vorld of the hippie, note the German accent, there were a lot of Germans there then. We had folks specializing in smoking Cobra poison Datura seeds peyote and experimented with alternative realities and altered states of consciousness daily. Had my first OBE meditating in a Buddhist temple on the slopes of the Himalaya chatted with the Dalai Lama (before chatting became something you do on a computer) Yep you might say I have been 'round the block.

No bragging but you just stirred up old memories. Part of my old memories are the experiences of Spiritual phenomena, elevating swamis, moving furniture, and talking to spiritual entities in English, through the mouth of someone who was not aware that there is a world outside of Nepal. So all in all I remain cautious. How I wish you were all right, but I am pretty convinced that this is no more than a convenient belief system invented by charlatans who care not for anyone, not really, and who have very little real life experience and compensate by living and inventing fiction.

That is my opinion so far, but I realize I could be wrong so I wait and try to stay open.

Regards Mustardseed

[thesickmoon]

Hold up-- I wanna hear about the people smoking cobra venom.

[Mustardseed]

Ha what a world, here I try to elevate the conversation to higher levels. as advised by the moderators and all folks wanna hear about is smoking poison.

Ok here goes.

Find a snake, cobra is best but I imagine your local diamond back will do nicely  milk the poison without getting hurt, this is where most folks drop off. Smoke it by the drop laced on a pipe of tobacco. Ha

Hey its POISON PEOPLE, it will kill your nervous system, actually destroy your brain cell and do unspoken damage to your liver kidneys and balance nerves. Beats sniffing glue 1 to 1000 in a weird high of senseless babble, and the effects are not reversible, you will die from this.

Instead why not get a bottle of whiskey and drink it in a couple of swigs, the high is comparable but I somehow imagine the damaging effects may be less, but then again I might be wrong.

Honestly stay away from even thinking about it. Maybe I should delete that part, hmm .....think think think.

Nah If you are that stupid you will die soon eventually

Regards Mustardseed

[thesickmoon]

But wait! I don't wanna know HOW to smoke cobra venom-- I wanna hear stories of people who've actually smoked it.

There's no frakking way I'm catching a rattlesnake. My uncle always used to tell me, "Dave, don't ever- EVAH try to catch a wildcat with yo' bare hands." I think this advice also holds true to catching venomous snakes.

[Nay]

Ha what a world, here I try to elevate the conversation to higher levels. as advised by the moderators

Ha, I'm guilty..

Smoking venom..heheh..new one on me, but my second step mother claimed she was bit by a rattlesnake and seeked no medical help, and lived.....Honestly, she has a MO that tends to lean towards the seeking out of  attention, and at her age of 52yr...wow

Nay

[Gandalf]

I am an old Hippie Doug I heard it all, this sounds a lot like old second hand hippie philosophy, nicely packaged but same old stuff.....cheech and chong "its all in your head man"

What do you think

I think that I don't agree with you and I think that you need to look at what the phasing model is *actually* trying to say before making judgements which you appear to base on your past 'hippie' experiences. Also, you might want to think about the idea that your views on your 'hippie past' may not apply to everyone. I have talked to a few 'ex-hippies' who have only positive views on their past 'hippy-experience' and still believe it was the right thing to do, even if they eventially had to get older and get on with having kids etc!

Doug

[Lente]

Hi Rob
Sorry about the mentioning of Doug, ha glad you answered , it is naturally open for all to do so. Yep my friend just a old recycled hippie, hitchhiked to India and lived all over the Mideast Afghanistan in the early 70s, did LSD in Goa, with the full moon parties. Had my share of the vierd and vonderful vorld of the hippie, note the German accent, there were a lot of Germans there then. We had folks specializing in smoking Cobra poison Datura seeds peyote and experimented with alternative realities and altered states of consciousness daily. Had my first OBE meditating in a Buddhist temple on the slopes of the Himalaya chatted with the Dalai Lama (before chatting became something you do on a computer) Yep you might say I have been 'round the block.

No bragging but you just stirred up old memories. Part of my old memories are the experiences of Spiritual phenomena, elevating swamis, moving furniture, and talking to spiritual entities in English, through the mouth of someone who was not aware that there is a world outside of Nepal. So all in all I remain cautious. How I wish you were all right, but I am pretty convinced that this is no more than a convenient belief system invented by charlatans who care not for anyone, not really, and who have very little real life experience and compensate by living and inventing fiction.

That is my opinion so far, but I realize I could be wrong so I wait and try to stay open.

Regards Mustardseed

I see you HAVE been around the block! I respect that, but perhaps that is your problem, all of your past building walls around you. Or perhaps it is wisdom you gained, honestly I don't know, I can't say I have a lot of live experience (or any experience) backing up my story, but I believe and we will see where it goes.

I'm a little disappointed that frank doesn't want to respond on this, because he should be in the right position to answer your questions whit all his experience.

Yes mustardseed keep an open mind, but more importantly, test these things for yourself.

[Lente]

Major Tom,

I think the ideas are intermingled whit each other, besides don't be so strict, just let to discussion go its way.

[Mustardseed]

Yea I guess I have been around the block however I do not believe it has made me build walls. I have had OBEs all my life since childhood, spent many years trying to make them stop, to no avail, so I have learned to live with them. I am one of the unfortunate few who does not have to fight to have one but fight against having them too often. What irony.

For a good many years I have worked as an Missionary/Exorcist, I and worked for the best part of 15 years in India and Nepal, so people believe me. I don't buy into the head stuff, these things are real, negs exist, and no amount of pretending they don't are going to make them go away.

That is why I would be so pleased to discuss this with "the man", but it seems he is busy, so let it be. It does not seem that Frank want this exchange of information. If he does respond I would hope that this would not degenerate to become somewhat a exchange of rhetoric's, but a honest exchange of experiences.

What I desire is that we all sit down together Adrian Frank Robert whoever (all of you guys) and compare notes. No one is the enemy no one the adversary, all just friends trying to find the way through, lets compare notes in respect with kindness and may our motive be to learn and help the one who by chance will pass the way we have all ready gone, and may we be a blessing, one to another.

No ego no pride no right wrong or "I told you so". I would be ready for that conversation, to learn from you, would you be ready to learn from me and everyone else who might join in as well????Or do you all ready have all the answers?? Those who know me will know what is in my heart. All I desire is to be a help to someone, that's all.

Regards Mustardseed