Goetia

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by Gandalf
After a few sessions noises started to be heard and then the thought form, whom they named 'Philip' began to speak. As the sesssions went on, he grew in power until he was able to do astonishing things like lifting the table up into the air!
One of the most interesting things was that rathr than just being some kind of souless 'energy program' (for want of a better term) which could only fulfil simple tasks, 'Philip' really seesmed to develop his own personality and really seemed to come alive in some way.

A question could be asked here as to whether it was a thoughtform or some being pretending to be "Philip".

quote:
If he did come to life in some way, then what happens when the group is finished with the thought form and no longer call him; since he will no longer receive energy, is it the case that he will fade away into nothingess after a few weeks/months/years? If he is alive in some way, isnt this cruel to bring him to life only for him to fade away?

Unless one knows what one is doing with thoughtforms it can be tricky. Unless you re-absorb the thoughtform back into yourself (made up of your own energy) it can wander around causing all sorts of trouble and end up becoming a parasite/vampire. If it has a certain amount of intelligence programmed into it it will know it needs energy to stay "alive". There is a good example of this kind of situation in Dion Fortunes "Psychic Self-Defense" where she re-absorbes a Wolf-type thoughtform she inadvertantly created.

[Oazaki]

quote:Originally posted by wisp

Oazaki,
Your statements are in harmony with exactly why there was fall of man/woman.  Your choices are based on your timing, not God's. You want what you want before God.Your's is the same story as the commoners (Adam & Eve, as it is written).

If the right choice had been taken from the beginning, the rest of the story would be different. So, as it goes, if you don't get the first truth, you will not understand any truth that follows. For instance, I don't think your correct in who Lucifer represents.

Waiting on God. Why is this such a blow to the ego?

The Tree of Knowledge exists NOW. The things which followed that are written in the Bible has to do with the choice man/woman made at that time, thus the story is written. You can't understand what followed if you don't understand waiting for God. One token of obedience broken by man/woman, effected the rest. Go back to the beginning, read it again. Otherwise, continue on your journey of your own personal power struggle. Your confusing "service to God" with "waiting on God" (a time factor). Your saying man/woman can precede the natural order,and I think your wrong.

Wisp, believe me, I know all about divine timing, probably more than anybody else.  After all, what I have done (see my myriad other posts for details on this) was done through the use of the tools of divine timing and karma.  More specifically, through the manipulation of the relevant karmic threads and the use of the relevant karmic gateways.

Also, I have personally met both Lucifer and the entity once known as YHWH, as well as the all the various true aspects of God (ie the lords of the planes of creation) and so I know that of which I speak.  Have you?  Or do you base your statements on the popularly socially held and propagated ideas and conceptions?  Know that these were never designed to be truth, were always designed to control.  Yet, as ever, believe what you will.  It would be best though if you so believed on the basis of your own deep inveestigation as opposed to on the basis of what you have been told.

Yet this is not a point I'm willing to argue at this stage.  Decide for yourself where you want to take it and decide for yourself what you balieve the truth to be and decide for yourself where you want to place your focus and to whom you wish to give your support.

Btter than giving support to one faction or another though I'd say is to look to yourself, direct your focus inwards and channel thy faith within thine own soul.  But I repeat, the choice is yours.  And, so too, are the consequences of that choice.  So be sure to choose wisely and with awareness.

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Oazaki]

quote:Originally posted by McArthur

Are you saying that you take the story of the Garden of Eden literally rather than as an allegory? What about other Eastern paths that have no mention of such things as "original sin" etc?

Ah, nice question.  []  I am taking the story of the Garden of Eden metaphorically, and I am also answering it / expounding upon it metaphorically. []

quote:
Also i would be interested in what you have to say about Lucifer as this name is only mentioned once in the Christian bible (not the Original Hebrew version) and has proven to be a mistranslation for "Son of the Morning" and was referring to the King of Babylon.

Lucifer does exist, as did the entity formerly known as YHWH, and Lucifer was the good guy ie the one on humanity's side.  I mean, c'mon, check out the old testament for just some of the stuff the entity formerly known as YHWH got up to.  Hardly sounds like a benevolent god does it?  Also, neither was the biblical YHWH a god nor is the biblical Lucifer and angel.  what you have going on there is duplication of already-extant entities / names in the creation for "As above, so below" refers not only to this Earth relative to the heavens and the astral, but also the higher planes relative to the planes above them.  The creation is a set of reflections within reflections within reflections.

The original YHWH btw, the YHWH of jewish mysticism, eg the deity referred to in the Zohar, is the same entity referred to in Sikhism as Kal.  He is the Lord of the causal plane of the creation.  and the original lucifer really is an archangel, the brightest, wisest, most beautiful ever created.  And he really did begin a rebellion against Kal.  Again, reflections within reflections within reflections.  I have given more info on the lucifer rebellion, it's nature and purpose and outcome on my thread “The Lucifer Experiment” located here:

http://www.occultforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=6207&highlight=

all the best man,
Oazaki.

[McArthur]

quote:Originally posted by Oazaki

Lucifer does exist,

Probably so as a thoughtform that has evolved quite a bit since the translation error in the King James version of the Hebrew bible. But try and ask any Jewish Rabbi if there is a being named "Lucifer" in the Tanakh and you'll more than likely get a "no". The original translation error for the term "Son of the morning" "how thou hast fallen" etc was referring to the King of Babylon. Read Isiah if you don't believe me.

The serpent in the garden is not named "Lucifer" neither is the "Devil". The name used is Satan, which means 'adversary'. As someone else in this thread pointed out the name "Lucifer" comes from a minor Roman deity associated with the planet Venus. SO Christianity probably used this name and demonized it as a way of destroying all competing beliefs to it. The same was done with the Celtic god Cernunnus with the stags horns on his head which is where we get the typical Christian image of a Devil with horns (or the Greek god of nature, Pan) etc.

If you wish to base your personaly philosphy around this "Lucifer" thoughtform that came from a translational error of the Hebrew bible by medieval Christians thats fine with me. I just thought i would point these things out. []

http://www.deeptrancenow.com/paradigm.htm

[Oazaki]

quote:Originally posted by McArthur

The serpent in the garden is not named "Lucifer" neither is the "Devil". The name used is Satan, which means 'adversary'. As someone else in this thread pointed out the name "Lucifer" comes from a minor Roman deity associated with the planet Venus. SO Christianity probably used this name and demonized it as a way of destroying all competing beliefs to it. The same was done with the Celtic god Cernunnus with the stags horns on his head which is where we get the typical Christian image of a Devil with horns (or the Greek god of nature, Pan) etc.

yeah, don't get hung up on names and recorded history dude.  consider: there is a reason that history is recorded as it is, and that includes that which is recorded in religious or sacred texts.

quote:
If you wish to base your personaly philosphy around this "Lucifer" thoughtform that came from a translational error of the Hebrew bible by medieval Christians thats fine with me. I just thought i would point these things out. []

i base my personal philosophy around no established belief system.  i base it on my personal esoteric / mystical investigation.  and where what i discern as truth coincides with what is written in already-established sources, i refer to those parts of the already-established systems to get my points across to others.  and where what i have discovered contradicts established sources, i reject those established sources.  for my stuff i have tried and tested and know that is true and does work.  these certainties are, for me, greater than the certainties of what i see with my own eyes for the higher realms are a more "alive" realm and my truer domain.

oh and btw, the story of the fall from eden refers to the fall in consciousness (and hence dimensional levels) that occurred on this earth with the fall of atlantis.  which leads one perhaps to consider: to what does the "tree of knowledge", metaphorically, refer, and how did "the serpent" tempt mankind with its fruit?  any ideas? []

hope this clears up some of the confusion.

all the best,
Oazaki.

[Gwathren]

quote:Originally posted by Gandalf

btw Lucifer is actually a minor Roman god; he is actually a personification of Venus when she is visable in the Morning sky, ie the Morning Star. For this reason he is given his name  Lucifer= 'light bearer'.

I don't like the perosnification idea/fact. If Lucifer would be only(!!!) a minor God, why would the God not just crush Lucifer. Or is that "God" so weak then that can't defeat a minor(!) Roman god? I don't see logic here, sorry...

[Gandalf]

You don't understand what I'm saying.

The Christian 'lucifer' and the old Roman god of the same name are in no way related. The Christians just used his name for their own 'devil' figure.

Thats it.

Douglas

[Gwathren]

OK, I understood wrong. But still, why did christians then take over the name? If I would have made a lord of evil, I would not have taken over the name of a minor god, because then the fighting idea between good vs evil seems idiotic. And by the way when they took the name, they HAD to choose it. Why did they took Lucifer? Why not..Peter(just a samnple)? If you give someone's name to some one it MUST have some sort of connection? I doubt that someone said:
"Hey, let's take Lucifer!"
" Why?"
"Because...it sounds cool?!?"

[xnedu]

Hello,
I am new to this. I mean both the forum and this weird stuff. It is pretty hard to believe that stuffs like spirits and other things exist. But I fail to deny their existence too because honestly I don’t know. I have a few questions. I hope some of the more knowledgeable guys can help me. what are "familiars" in general? And what exactly is goetia? Can I really call a spirit and talk to it? I mean how would one go about with that? Definitely it doesn’t understand English does it?
Basically I would like to know whether I could summon them in physical form… like can I touch them with my hands…?
Is it possible. If so I would like  to know the names of some friendly harmless spirits…

[aryanknight666]

It means 'bearer of light' I beleive or something to that effect and its a roman translation of....I'm assuming hebrew, one language or another that was an early biblial language, they called him the light bearer and lucifer means this in the latin or roman language.
Satan is a hebrew word meaning adversary yes, but the hebrews came out of egypt and in egyptian Sata-n means serpent in egyptian.

[Nita]

Hello Everyone
   There seems to be posts missing from this thread but I will comment on a few things anyway. Anyone who enjoyed this discussion should read about duality and non-duality. I really believe they exist at the same time.
  Oazaki people do not subjugate themselves to God or any positive spirit. They praise him. All of the work being done is because we are on this earth and have to see what the difference is between good and evil. Anything we go through and learn will happen not to give us servitude to God but to teach us what we are about by our correct decisions. It also shows us what not to do by the incorrect decisions for us.
   It is why Satan is called adversary some people are more suited to his path. It is the path of the individual. The ones who are out for themselves and believe their personal power is all important. The ones suited to God or the All are working to join a unity where they will be joined together with everyone else working for the betterment of the human existence.They are a conduit of God and do things for the greater good. It is the difference between white and black magic. Contrary to popular belief. One source for this information is A treatise on White Magic by Alice Bailey. She is long winded but a worth while read as she has many gems of knowledge in her book.
   The goetia is a dangerous book especially for newcomers with out any control. Demons do what they want if they feel they can get away with it. The reason for this is their adversary position again.
   They fulfill their purpose by giving us a chance to bring out the best in ourselves. To know the difference between what right and wrong choices in our Path and our lives. They were created by God for this purpose. They can not evolve or change.
   I have noticed a lot of propaganda out there about evil lately. It is getting just as bad as people trying to convert others to good. All the comments about Lucifer, and spiritual satanism. Demons evolving and becoming good. I know some people may want to believe those things but I have experienced things first hand. I am not proselytizing or trying to change others. I do know what I will not do and that is the right decision for me. These are my personal views upon the subject but I do feel everyone should research these things and decide what they want to be instead of being guided into the wrong thing for them.
   Nita

[aryanknight666]

The goetia is dangerous if you are an idiot. Sadly, that is the case for most people here.
Look nita, if you have never had any experience with the goetia and goetic demons which is obvious, then you really can make no valid comments on it.
Just remember one thing: The demons are no longer bound or cursed. They are GODS. They have been freed from the wretched curses of the revolting parasite YAHWEH so mistreat them and you are inviting DISASTER and this is rightfully so because people who abuse spirits especially GODS deserve to be punished.
My recommendations to everyone is not to swallow the bovine excrement new age dogma or anything like that. Spiritual pipe dreams and pseudo-intellectualism are nothing compared to true experience. Don't listen to what anyone else says unless you are absolutely sure that is the truth, this is most easily determinable by your own experience.

[aryanknight666]

It is why Satan is called adversary some people are more suited to his path. It is the path of the individual. The ones who are out for themselves and believe their personal power is all important. The ones suited to God or the All are working to join a unity where they will be joined together with everyone else working for the betterment of the human existence.They are a conduit of God and do things for the greater good. It is the difference between white and black magic. Contrary to popular belief. One source for this information is A treatise on White Magic by Alice Bailey. She is long winded but a worth while read as she has many gems of knowledge in her book.
The goetia is a dangerous book especially for newcomers with out any control. Demons do what they want if they feel they can get away with it. The reason for this is their adversary position again.

Demons don't do what they want if they feel they can get away with it. Honour and ethics are very important to them. They are also very proud.
SATAN is a hebrew word which literally means Adversary. Satan is the adversary to the judea-christian 'god' yahweh/jehova and the angels. He is the adversary to enemy gods. The hebrews come from Egypt. In Egypt, SATA-N means 'snake' or 'serpent'. The snake or the serpent represented the egyptian God Ptah who was the sumerian God Enki. The garden of eden is taken from sumerian myth, its actually a literal place, in mesopatomia. It no longer exists anymore, as far as I know. In this place it is said in Sumerian myth Enki (represented by the serpent) advanced human beings, he gave them knowledge. His work was not finished.

Remember, Lucifer told Adam (Adappa) and Eve that if they ate from the fruit, they wouldn't die like yahweh said. They didn't die. Yahweh was a liar. For this, yahweh cast them away from the garden of eden. Never has there been a war fought in the name of Satan. Satan is meant to be a liar, betray and murderer. Yahweh fits the criteria for all three in his holy books. Satan doesn't.

[Nita]

Hello Arayan Knight
   I was trained as a Solomonic Ceremonial Magician in a large group in LA. I spent 12 years dealing with goetic demons by cleaning up the students mistakes. Yes I was a high ranker also.
   I have been dealing with demons, ghosts, and psychic vampires for 34 years now. I have seen physically manifested demons and some weird stuff no one ever believes. The reason why they do not want to believe it. I can truthfully say I have seen demons and what they do on a personal upfront basis.
   I have an informed opinion due to personal experience. I doubt any of you have met, summoned or dealt with as many demons and negative entities as I have in removing them from others.
     Nita

[Nita]

Hello Arayan Knight
   Now for the second comments. The bible has been rewritten so many times that no one knows what God really told Adam and Eve. I am sure Lucifer was twisting things and lying because that is what he is the Father of lies and also Lord of Flies.
   Demons have pride and ego. The problem is the pride and ego normally is about how much they can twist and say to make people believe them. I do feel that people should realize that demons can not give them anything that God and hard effort can not give them.
         Nita