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Author Topic: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !  (Read 115090 times)
phi
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« Reply #150 on: June 27, 2003, 16:34:28 »

quote:
Originally posted by 13

Just wanted to give a warm thank you to those who posted recently. I can stop holding my breath now...I was unsure whether I'd offended the entire forum by probing too much and taking the shine off such mystical and 'divine' knowledge... Hearing that there are other students who recognise the value of the objective process is assuring.



Well if you need feedback then I'll say I appreciate your questioning nature. Keep the posts coming. [^]
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We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. — Anais Nin
Noxerus
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« Reply #151 on: June 27, 2003, 17:43:36 »

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« Last Edit: June 24, 2011, 10:41:38 by Noxerus » Logged
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« Reply #151 on: June 27, 2003, 17:43:36 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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goingslow
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« Reply #152 on: June 27, 2003, 20:31:22 »

I still think a litle test would be fun like I had asked in the beginning if it was possible.  Something like someone on the forum giving a list of stuff that could be in a box and people using the pendulum find out which is actually there.

Im not really using it much though.  I tried it the first time I read the topic and it worked well.. but after I questioned it it stopped working for me.  I think ever since then I hold my fingers too tight.  I lose interest in things fast, but I might try it again.. it would be fun to have more specific and verifiable things to ask it.
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Squeek
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« Reply #153 on: June 27, 2003, 20:47:34 »

The first slew of questions I asked mine yesterday involved its trustworthyness.  It passed.  And after I questioned it, it continued to give me replies.  I don't remember how I asked or what I even said because I'm like that but I know I asked them.

~Squeek
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greatoutdoors
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« Reply #154 on: June 28, 2003, 03:03:09 »

MAN! So many good thoughts to reply to! 13, I like the idea of a group experiment of some kind and would appreciate the opportunity to take part. I haven't had a chance to try the pendulum yet, but should get to play with it this weekend. It would be fantastic if we could devise some system that gave repeatable, consistent results!

Edi has asked:
1) Who or what are we communicating with when we use the pendulum?
2) Can we be sure of it?
3) How can we be sure of it?


Those are questions I am still trying to answer. I have used Ouija fairly extensively in the past, with some interesting results. They lead me to believe I am "connecting" to something, but hardly a higher being. One example: a friend and I were questioning Ouija while my old and partially deaf dog was sleeping beside us. I asked Ouija if it could prove its reality by waking up the dog. It said "Yes" and proceeded to whirl around the board at a rapid pace. The dog continued to snore. After a few minutes the whirling topped and it spelled out "I can't." It didn't prove the existence or power of Ouija, but it folded us up laughing!

Scientific American and Discover magazines have had interesting articles recently about a field of energy that is everywhere, in everything. That is pretty close to what I believe. Now whether that field is sentient, or contains sentient beings (physical or otherwise) I just don't know. But I believe we are tapping into that energy somehow whenever we are operating beyond the purely physical "here and now". And yes, I know it sounds a bit like Star Wars, but I can brag I had that belief before the Force came to the silver screen.

Lastly, if someone decides to launch another thread, I would appreciate a heads-up from this point -- it's hard to keep up with them all.
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« Reply #154 on: June 28, 2003, 03:03:09 »



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Bad Moon Rising
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« Reply #155 on: June 28, 2003, 04:48:34 »

I just used the Pendulum to find some important documents I have been trying to find for more then a year. They had been misplaced after I moved. I went room to room asking my Pendulum .... " are my documents in this room?" When my pendulum finally said yes. I decided I would take the room apart piece by piece if needed. Sure enough I found what I had been looking for in the bottom of a box in the top of a closet. A place where I had looked before.
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13
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« Reply #156 on: June 28, 2003, 05:22:31 »

For those interested in starting experimental work with the pendulum, and any other effective cross-dimensional communication method, I started a thread under General Metaphysics at http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5264. If you'd like to participate, please reply to that thread instead of this one, and once the group is formed we can start serious planning and comparing notes on some good directions. Initially I had quite a few ideas on capabilities to examine, and experiments to try, but once I started probing via pendulum and in trance communication, I found many entities simply weren't very capable, so I feel the experiments may have to be progressive - that is, first establish regular contact, then teach it some basic protocols, then examine it's abilities and mutually exchange information with it on aspects worth exploring, then conduct fully-fledged experiments between participants on many of the aspects we'd like to know about. I am personally interested in future probability reading (akashic records), telepathy from human to entity to another human, entity remote viewing (physical and astral), magical empowerment and the human-familiar relationship, and other assorted stuff. The only other thing worth mentioning to those whose pendulums seem to have quietened down once you became more inquisitive is, mine did the same thing until I relaxed and communicated the fact that I had no expectation of it's abilities, and didn't get upset or anxious one way or another, I only asked that it be honest, really honest. Since that time, it has worked as strong as ever, and it no longer lies - I openly ask it eg, "Do you have the ability to read this card?" and it will say "No" quite quickly. Mind you, it still tested me initially and I had to berate it for lying when ti did, but now it is open and truthful for the most part. This is the point in the relationship where true progress can be made, I feel. For what it's worth, I've found that astral entities don't really view deceit the way we do - it's not a bad trait in them at all, it's like they're just 'imagining' stuff up like they always do. So establishing the human expectation of absolute truth in them is in itself a task.

Noxerus - yes friend, I do study hermetics [Smiley]. I'm glad to see someone else here knows the name of Franz Bardon, a true Adept of the last century. I practice trance and energetics, and also high magic and earth magick, but focus on the astral effects of magic in trance rather than mere physical rituals. In the vast higher dimensional world we live in, there is so much to learn it staggers the mind.
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goingslow
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« Reply #157 on: June 28, 2003, 09:25:12 »

It would be very interesting to me how most people would handle a mentor or the traditional (non western) way of learning these things.

Im thinking a mentor wouldnt fly since we all know so much from reading and from being so independent.  Thats one thing I enjoy about the casteneda book I'm reading, the amount of humbleness (if thats a word) among people first learning.  I dont think we in the west could learn the "old way".  I personally wish someone here was a shaman or  a person such as that so they could tell us the difference.  I think a shaman might get chased off these forums for being too set in his ways and getting annoyed with a person's arrogance.  The two shamans I've met in my life were very much like that.  They were older and couldnt stand people who had read so much they questioned them on everything.  Thats just not how it's done among native american people and other cultures.  Maybe thats one reason you dont see a lot of Native shamen online.  mostly western/anglo ones... its a medium better suited for that type of interaction.

If Mirador ever decided to converse with the new agers I think differences in other countries would be interesting to learn.  Unfortunately he seems stuck on sneering.

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Bad Moon Rising
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« Reply #158 on: June 28, 2003, 12:58:48 »

I  believe there is confusion here on this thread. I suggest that readers spend some time and carefully read the thread in it's entirety.
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Novice
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« Reply #159 on: June 29, 2003, 12:30:45 »

Here's my update for everyone.

As I had previously posted, my pendulum had told me several different times that it was my higher self. I also had progressed from having to verbally ask questions, to thinking questions and having it respond. This occurred over a few days.

All of our conversations seemed to be prompted/fed by my thoughts and dreams. I also asked several times if it expected me to believe what it was telling me and it repeatedly told me No. It also expected me to question and 'test' it. And when I asked if it was offended by this, the reply was also No.

I had asked it two different days if I would have a lucid dream or astral travel that night. It was wrong both times. It admitted as such. But maintained that I would have a physical sign of what it was telling me by last friday. Now I can somewhat understand not accurately predicting lucid dreams or astral travel. So my mind was still open at this point.

I then tried the card guessing as 13 described. I mimicked the set-up (3 random cards; even/odd guesses). The first set of 3 it guessed 2/3 correctly. The second time it was 1/3. So overall a 50-50 scoring. I commented that that was not very impressive, it agreed. Again, at this point, I could imagine that perhaps this was not necessarily a good test for my higher self. So I still held my decision.

I asked if it still wanted to hold to the physical sign occurring on Friday. It said Yes. When I asked if it could be wrong, it said Yes. When I asked if it thought it would be wrong. It said No. I told it that I wouldn't communicate anymore until after Friday. And then we would see what happened. I asked if it understood my reason. It said Yes.

Friday came and went, and the sign didn't appear. Saturday, I told the pendulum that the sign didn't appear. It said No. I then asked again if it was my higher self. The answer was No. I asked if it was another entity/being. The answer was No. I asked if I knew who it was. It said No. I then told it that I knew what my thoughts are already. And that what I'm looking for is not someone who can read my thoughts, but someone who can help guide me. I thanked it for its time and wished it well, but told it I would not be contacting it anymore. I asked if it understood why. It said Yes.

Now, I have NEVER tried anything like this before. Although I was successfully able to use a divining rod once to find water when I was a kid. That doesn't really count, but that's the only experience I have with this type of stuff. And yes, it was somewhat neat to communicate with something. But I prefer to know what I'm communicating with.

I'm assuming from the posts on this thread, that its possible to contact more than one entity. So I may try again. But I'll be reading and posting both here and on the link that 13 started in General Metaphysics. My first step in proceeding down this path is being able to verify, with some type of consistency/accuracy, what type of being I'm communicating with. Otherwise I have no intention of pursuing the dialogue. That may sound harsh, but that's my approach at this point.
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Amber
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« Reply #160 on: June 30, 2003, 00:33:43 »

Mayatnik,
thank you so much for the detailed description of how to use the pendulum, I am enjoying it already. (made mine out of a necklace)

I have a feeling that some of the people on this thread would like to prove it's accuracy, but it might be very difficult to do. First, I see the pendulum like I see my Tarot cards: a tool that helps you tap into the part of you that has access to direct knowledge. Note, I said it is a PART OF YOU that has access to this knowledge. But with ego, daily concerns, emotions and our logical mind in the way...we constantly ignore the part of us that knows things without having to assimilate them through conventional methods ie..books, tv , internet ect...

One person commented that the pendulum was only correct when he already had a good idea what was going to be written on that slip of paper. Of course! Part of you knows the answer and the pendulum is just a distraction to let your logical mind relax enough to accept the answer. So, the question really is whether or not your connection with your own inner seer is open and functioning, not whether your pendulum is plugged in or not...lol

Mayatnik, if this varies from your experience with the pendulum, I didn't mean to offend with my opinion here, I just wanted to express my gratitude for your instruction and give my honest opinion of it's true function.
sincerely,
Amber
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MAYATNIK
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« Reply #161 on: June 30, 2003, 04:07:58 »

AMBER,
Thank you for your appreciation, and relating your experience as you see it regarding the Pendulum.  It in no way offends me, whatever a person’s experience that they relate; it merely saddens me if the person is closed-minded and negative, and I therefore hurt when this is so because of knowing the person could learn so much from being ‘open’ and receptive to all that is new to them rather than taking a ‘testing’ attitude to the Pendulum which is there to teach.  Berating the teacher for the teacher’s perceived ‘inaccuracy’ is to miss the point altogether.  A teacher is not there to give ‘answers’ as such, but to point the way, and so the Pendulum will avoid anything that will give an ‘easy route’.  You, I feel, have a good grasp of this concept, and so I tell you these things for you to further check and question the Pendulum, and this will put you in a good position to be able to assist others who can benefit from your insight – because people will learn by sharing their degree of development in this (not by checking answers to prove the teacher right or wrong – which is an insult in anybody’s terms).  As such I, as a teacher of the Pendulum the method of which use has been given to me by my guide, do not give answers either but merely point the way and encourage, offering advice as appropriate.  It is for the Pendulum user to address their own inner-development directly with the Pendulum itself; each will progress in their own time and way.  All that my guide asks is for users to have respect, be fully open and explore with many questions, since many of those questions will be about the unknown to them and cannot be ‘verified’ by scientific means.  They can, however, be verified by common-sense – because, as the questions proceed (and there should be many, like a conversation with a Wise Friend) pieces of the jig-saw puzzle will fall into place, giving a much better perspective of the overall ‘picture’.  The Pendulum is also (and this is the priority of the guides, above all else) there to assist in inner-development of that particular person.  So, that person will be ‘tested’ – not the other way round!  It has to be understood, that wrong answers WILL appear to be given from time to time, and sometimes frequently (depending on the attitude of the ‘pupil’); this is deliberately to get the person to rethink certain notions and attitudes, not necessarily directly obvious.  If a person remains open and receptive, then the beginning of telepathy will follow, and they may find they’re ‘hearing’ a fuller answer in their heads.  The problem then arising is, will that person dismiss what they ‘hear’ as their imagination or their ‘cognitive’ processes at work.  Again, common-sense should prevail, since the responses that may be heard as one progresses will often not be in agreement with one’s knowledge accrued through books and the like, but will nevertheless make sense in building a larger understanding.  A point is reached, when the person gets a firm ‘foundation’ and then the exploration really begins to take off exponentially, far beyond any scientific methods the world uses to seek new knowledge and explore new frontiers.  So, the Pendulum can be seen as a starting point, and I graduated from that many years ago. In fact, I have not used the Pendulum myself for over 6 years now, since becoming fully telepathic 24/7 and having instant ‘rapport’ with my guide in a ‘conversational mode’ of communication throughout the day, and is in fact the way I read all posts in conjunction with my guide who listens and comments on them.  It is in that way that I am able to teach, because I am not an educated person and all my knowledge that I write here and elsewhere comes directly from my guide, not from myself.  As regards Channeling, it has been suggested that the Pendulum is a channeling device.  It is not.  And it clearly is not, because the ‘answers’ given to a user are for learning purposes only, and it is only after much learning that a person may possibly graduate further, no longer needing the Pendulum, and be given the great responsibility to channel directly from the guides; part of which responsibility is to not give the answers ‘on a plate’, but to assist the development of others.
I do that here, in my capacity as assigned and ‘gifted’ to me.

You are quite right, Amber, in relating the Pendulum to the Tarot for inner-development.  Neither the Tarot nor the Pendulum are tools for giving ‘answers’ to the future.  The Tarot gives a ‘general’ view, and the Pendulum gives a ‘specific’ view to a question.  But, in both cases they are only a ‘snapshot’ at the present time, and how the future will be depends on the person, interaction and Fate in what will be given in experiences and whether this is dealt with or avoided.  The Pendulum can access the Akashic records through the Higher Self or soul (according to how people term it), and it does this through what I have termed the ‘computer’ (which is a way of describing the ‘mechanism’ by which the Collective Consciousness interacts – rather like a Super Galactic Internet-Highway, if you like). And, the guides can ‘tap in’ at any time to ‘monitor’ and even speak through the Pendulum.  That, broadly is the way it is.  But, of course, you should use the Pendulum to ask more about these things, and in that way your knowledge will grow – but will grow only in proportion to your openness and willingness to learn all things new, putting conditioning aside in the process.

So, proceed with confidence Amber – you are doing well!

NOVICE,
What I have written above applies In general obviously, but to take the specifics of your post, particularly regarding the ‘tests’ you have made and also your observations, I shall comment here on those things.

As you say, you have now progressed from putting questions verbally to thinking them instead.  That is good, indicating that an affinity is growing with the Pendulum communication.  If you progress further, to ‘hearing’ answers in your head then you may have to go back temporarily to verbalising (allowing those incoming thoughts to come out through your mouth just as you ‘hear’ them instantly) until you again become more ‘attuned’ to this further development, should you progress to that stage, and that too will pass and become natural to just ‘think the conversation’.  So, all is well at this stage in that, but bear in mind my remarks in previous posts regarding ‘picking up’ audio around you – your mind can transmit not only your ‘thoughts’ but anything that your ears or senses pick up in addition, so focus on the question in hand if that is the objective; the Pendulum will be aware of what’s going on around you, in any case, but will respond to your focus.

The Pendulum will tend to concentrate on what is uppermost in your needs at the time, maybe uppermost in your mind but at any rate not necessariliy uppermost in the questions you are asking.  So answers will reflect this to some extent.  Regarding dreams, we all dream but are not always aware.  A so-called Lucid dream will only be remembered in any case if the guides wish it, since many dreams are actually ‘virtual experiences’ given to us, into the subconscious, while we sleep.  They are presented to ‘test out’ situations as to how we would deal with them (not in actuality but in ‘type’), and for the guides to evaluate progress and sometimes even present new ideas to the world – many great inventions and new thinking have been presented in this way, and Einstein is a great example of this, along with those ‘creative’ people who suddenly got ideas for science-fiction ‘reality’ in such as Startrek, which introduced a new way of thinking to people.
So, when it is time, you will remember any dreams – because you will be ready, having dealt with other aspects, to grapple with new things to move forward.  The fact that dreams will be ‘set’ for you does not mean that you will be getting them that night or the next, since it depends very much on yourself, and also to some extent on your body-state at the time.  So, what may be ‘set’ (and inttended) may well be postponed.  Therefore, the Pendulum is not wrong, it is merely answering your question ‘as is’ at the time.

The card-guessing ‘test’ is not a sensible approach to using the Pendulum – and this is quite apart from the other factors I’ve discussed, which will only lead to confusion at the very least.  If you think about it, by laying down 3 cards you are implying that YOU or any source (such as the Pendulum) already knows what these cards are; in effect, you are stating by that that all you do is preordained, and ‘will be’ and therefore be known.  I type these words, having known what I intend to type.  I could, however, just press the keys at random, and the result would eventually appear on the screen – but it cannot be predicted whether I will type $qw9w\ … a#j’5< (in fact, I’ve just found those random characters very difficult to produce, I am so used to touch typing that my fingers refuse to go onto ‘non-sensible’ keys as my fingers are so clearly ‘attuned’ to what my brain instructs, which proves a point about good intuitive, i.e. non cognitive, ‘linking’).  So, it is what ‘appears’ (is turned over) that is relevant, not the putting down of the cards at ‘random’.

How does this then fit in with Tarot, for example, where the cards are said to appear not at random, but to a pattern that enables the person doing the Tarot Reading to obtain the information?  To answer this, let’s take the simple 3-card spread <past-present-future>.  As you turn over each card, it presents a ‘symbolic’ representation of a state of affairs in general, and the reader then reflects on this; in so doing an ‘insight’ is gained.  The key element here is the word ‘symbol’.  It is not an actuality, such as a card number for instance and the relevance is in the interpretation instead. So, when you ask the Pendulum to predict the ‘card’ that will be turned over, you are in effect asking it to reverse the process, if you see what I mean.  The Tarot cards are not put down at ‘random’, and the guides do indeed know what cards will appear in a Tarot spread, but of what benefit is it to you to know this from another source when the whole object is for you to trun them over and ‘interpret’ from the actual cards in a meaningful way?  It is no benefit to you, and the guides will not play such games – apart from making a ‘random’ guess it would seem.  The guides did not interfere in what cards were put down, since the object was to test them, and nothing can be learned from that.  If anyone thinks that the guides are going to allow a person to claim that the Pendulum is toatally accurate with their ‘tests’ then there is a distinct danger that people will rush off blindly believing that what the Pendulum tells them is the absolute Truth. So, you will only end up going around in circles at best, and continually ‘testing’ the guides is a negative attitude and can draw to the person all manner of what some people call ‘demons’, and that is not good; quite apart from the fact that the Pendulum may cease to work altogether until the person is ready, it is very retrograde to the formation of greater  receptiveness,  so the guides will not encourage this in their ‘answers’  as it will not further development of the person.  Better, they feel, for the person to remain in confusion until they are ready, my guide says.

There is one part of your post that appears ambiguous, so it is unclear regarding the questioning session you report.  It is essential to be precise in questioning since the Pendulum will (until you are experienced) answer what you ask, not necessarily what you mean – since this also is part of the ‘learning process’ the guides are attempting to teach.  Always, it is to get you to think deeper, in order to become ready for an increased level of awareness.  So, I quote here that particular part of your post…..

You say:
<< I told the pendulum that the sign didn't appear. It said No. I then asked again if it was my higher self. The answer was No. I asked if it was another entity/being. The answer was No. I asked if I knew who it was. It said No. I then told it that I knew what my thoughts are already. And that what I'm looking for is not someone who can read my thoughts, but someone who can help guide me >>
As the first sentence reads, it implies that you’re asking was the sign your ‘higher self’ – to which you got the answer ‘NO’.  Now, it is likely that you actually asked, “Are you my ‘higher self’…NO.  Some people get a ‘yes’ to that question – it all depends on their level of conditioning and what they can accept, but in any case the Pendulum works through the Higher Self, and until a bridge has been formed this is, in effect, the case.  In your case it is telling ‘no’, this is not the case for you; this is either to ‘test’ you to see how you will respond to that, or to in fact state the fact as given.  In either case, it is up to you in your perception to evaluate (I had all of this in my initial learning, so I know how they work from my own experience, as well as what I’ve been taught since).  You went on to ask if you knew who it was (“Do I know who you are?” would be a clear question) – and the answer was ‘NO’.  You are not precise here, so it could mean, are you asking “Do I know you, personally, as an entity?”, “Have I encountered you before?”, or just in general.  You could have gone on to ask about where it came from (some questions to find out more about this).  One of the things that appertain here, is that guides respond from a ‘pool’ – in other words, in the early stages it is invariably whichever Being happens to be ‘on-shift’ or on duty at that time to monitor the Pendulum and progressing users.  You can ask the Pendulum about such things, but unless you question as much as you can in a ‘conversational’ way, these things will not come to mind to ask about, since they are ‘popped’ into the mind during the course of the flow as appropriate in that session.  A good flow results in a good increase in knowledge derived from a session.

The Pendulum is not there to read your thoughts – though it does that automatically to understand you better than you know yourself!  The last part of that quote I extracted is very true, however, where you say: what I'm looking for is not someone who can read my thoughts, but someone who can help guide me --- Look at ait this way..... A Wise Friend can help a person, because they look deeper than the surface in what a person is saying or asking – in effect they almost read your mind, and in the case of the Pendulum it DOES read your mind, but responds in a way that will help you in stages to see clearer…..so the guide can, and is willing if you are receptive, to help you in all that is your potential, firstly with inner-development and then according to how you progress; it is an individual thing, not a ‘group’ process.  And never will you simply be handed the answers ‘on a plate’, because you must work towards understanding, after which – like any good and diligent pupil – you will know the answers even without asking.  As a simple analogy, an answer at the back of a higher mathematics textbook will tell you nothing about the process that led to it, and so you need to walk that path.  Good luck, and keep on posting for all to share.

I am happy to respond to all who are following this thread, and who have a positive receptive attitude for personal growth.  This thread is a group activity only insofar as there is sharing of experiences, and they can take many forms, rather than a rigid approach that may be employed elsewhere.  To that end I am interested in seeing input, and will respond if and as appropriate only to give extra help when things are not clear, as instructed by my guide to do.   So, it is up to the individual, to swim freely in these new waters, with the security of the ‘advanced’ method outlined here to aid confidence because it is the method given directly by the guides through myself to pass on, and not some derived ‘learning’ from books, or any notion of myself.  All that I give here has been channeled via Telepathy (and not the Pendulum) to assist in this.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.

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psaunder
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« Reply #162 on: June 30, 2003, 09:12:24 »

Hi,
I have  had an interesting result with this Pendulum exploration.
Below is a message I posted to the 'General metaphysics' forum - I didn't get much response there, so I've put it below. I would appreciate if anyone would care to post there thoughts on this.

Excuse the extraneous introduction, though I felt it necessary.. Smiley

My personal gratitude to Mayatnik and others who share there experiences on this forum.

Regards, Patrick.

========== original post =========
I'm not really sure where to start with this, as I can proudly say I have had _my_ first verifiable psychic experience!

I have been visiting these forums, and others for approx 2 years now and have a great deal of appreciation of the knowledge presented here, and am interested in experimenting and learning. The only fly in the ointment is that up until know, I have been relying upon other people's verification - the difference between licking a picture of an icecream vs the real thing IMO.

Well, lucky me, I came across the introduction to the Pendulum by, Mayatnik , in the 'Astral Consiousness' forum, so very excitedly I created my first pendulum out of shoe string and 2cm bolt.

Imagine me sitting there on the first night, saying "Go pendulum!" , "Show me YES, please", "Show me NO, please" , but all to no avail, my pendulum hung like overcooked spaghetti.

Not to be put off, the next day I sat down and talked to (through) my pendulum again, but this time I relaxed & concentrated, and what I observe is that my Pendulum starts swinging, but only when I push it with my mind! The short version of this story is that I can make my Pendulum swing front/back , left/right or even around in circles though to this point, though have not had any responses to questions from it!

So, my dissapointment at not having a responding pendulum is greatly dimminished at my excitement of manipulating using newly found PSI ability. Question is, what steps are suggested to begin receiving communication through my pendulum?
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« Reply #163 on: June 30, 2003, 12:29:54 »

Thanks for the response Mayatnik!

I do understand what you are saying regarding telepathy and the pendulum. And I was a bit dissapointed that I had to actually form mental sentences in order for it to respond. I would expect that at some point, it will simply be thought forms/feelings to which I receive responses.

However, during our conversations, there is a constant flow of dialogue. One question leads to another. The pendulum follows my as we proceed (I don't have it stop between questions/answers). The answers are continuous as I think them. I can tell right before it changes directions, and I'll wait for that to occur.

And, as I implied in my last post, I do recognize that the 'tests' I were doing were probably not good representations of my higher self. I fully acknowledge that. However, the 'sign' it mentioned to me was regarding inner development. So my thought was that at least that should have had some sort of validity to it.

My biggest hesitation is the information that its telling me. If it were reasonable, I would be more apt to believe. But the information I'm getting is like something telling me one day that I'm going to become President (of the US) within the next 20 years. Something that, while possible, is extremely improbable. Now this isn't what its telling me, but its a comparable analogy. This is what's forming the basis of my hesitation in continuing to utilize this. I'm not an ego centric individual, and do not have grandiose dreams/aspirations of any kind. So I'm not real sure where to go from here with it. Does that make sense?

Given my analgoy above, what would be your recommendation for trying to determine the validity of what was coming through? As I described in my last post, my conclusion was that this was some other entity trying to 'stroke my ego' with illusions of grandeur. This is why I stopped. I'm not interested in that at all.

Thanks for the advice!
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« Reply #164 on: June 30, 2003, 14:18:48 »

Hi Patrick,

You need not feel any disappointment, because your Pendulum is indeed responding – and responding well to you!  What you describe in your post shows me that you have distinct psychic ability in the way that you are able to get the Pendulum to move from your mind. It shows that you have already formed a ‘link’ with it.  where your confusion comes is in the way you are looking at this.  You are expecting it to conform and work automatically in the way you presume it should from what you’ve read.  Yet, at the same time, you are getting it to do things simply by ‘willing’ it to move – something that the beginner does not usually think of.  I often say, if I’m looking at a new Pendulum, “Circle please” or “move left to right” etc. and I put it through its paces as it were, to see how it responds, since weight and shape are factors in how a Pendulum will respond.  But, you have gone straight to that way of operation quite naturally, and so proved that it is working fine responding to your mind, rather than needing verbal instructions to it to do so.

So, why is it not responding to questions?  Well, first of all you need to establish with the Pendulum what is ‘yes’ and what is ‘no’ for you, otherwise nothing is valid, for any response would be meaningless.  Two things are important to understand here - and they are fully explained in various posts in this thread, so if you haven’t read all the posts then I would suggest you do so for full details, and extra ‘tips’ are given in stages as the need arises.  But, briefly, the Pendulum responds to questions in the way you would expect a computer to respond; in other words the question or statement must be clear and unambiguous.  I notice from your profile that you are a computer programmer, so you will readily understand this need for preciseness.  You asked the Pendulum (to quote your words), “Show me YES, please” and “Show me NO” please.  The Pendulum can’t do that, because ‘yes’ and ‘no’ response depends on the person, and you haven’t asked it to give a response that is right for you (left-right is YES for some, but not others, and in-out is of course the other response).  So your first question should be phrased, “Give me a YES, please”, and the Pendulum should then decide what is YES for you (depending on your genetic make-up) and respond accordingly.  You should also give the Pendulum a couple of second to ‘settle’ after picking it up, and this is the equivalent of ‘logging on’ to a server; in fact, if you watch closely, you will see the Pendulum do a little kind of ‘twirl’ before settling into a standing position, or into a YES swing (which is normal with many people once the Pendulum is attuned to them).  Once the ‘logging on’ is complete, then it knows all about you, because it has ‘identified’ you in just the same way as your unique password identifies you on the internet.  You are, in every sense, in touch with the Galactic super Highway of communication and Knowledge – and it is through this connection that guides can communicate with you through the Pendulum, or just ‘monitor’ your use of it because their ‘computer’ is capable of answering most questions since it is beyond anything that you can imagine as a programmer.  In my various posts I have referred to ‘default’ mode and ‘advanced’ mode.  This thread is about using the adanced mode, whilst Dowsers (without knowing it) actually use the default which is simply through the ‘computer’ automatically which is programmed to give ‘standard’, but very accurate, results to a Dowser for the type of work that they do.  I shall not describe the ‘default’ or  so-called Dowsing methods here to avoid confusion, except to say that they are very different - one example will suffice… to determine sex with ‘default’ mode it is necessary to have the thread a different length for each sex you wish to test for, and with the ‘advanced’ mode it is merely necessary to ask, “Is this female?”, having observed the other basic advanced rules set out in this thread, although it may be necessary in certain cases to use what is called a ‘scan’ first (I have not yet explained this ‘scan’ process, since members are still on the basics and that will come later).

It will be to your advantage to have read carefully all the way through this thread, because there are many subte points to be absorbed in it, as well as the experiences of members which should give further food for thought as to how you can apply the Pendulum in your own way.

I will outline here a couple of extra methods that I have not given up to now, and you can try these to see how the Pendulum is responding, and they are very useful additional features…..

The first one is to use it as a ‘compass’ pointer.  Ask the Pendulum, “Point North for me, please”.  It should respond by starting to spin.  This is <search> mode, it is looking to find North for you, from your position.  When the spinning (search) stops it should then settle into a swing, like the ‘yes’ or ‘no’ swing, but this time the direction of the swing will be North-South.  The point (pardon the pun) is which end of the swing is North?  Here’s a ‘knack’ you can incorporate, and which will be useful for other things to as you progress:  Flick your eyes in the direction you think may be North, and ask, “Is it that direction?”.  The Pendulum should then respond (assuming it is set up correctly) by changing it’s swing to a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ (left-right or in-out, whichever is the case for you).  If the answer is ‘no’ then obviously South is the direction you indicated with your eyes, and North is the other direction.  Repeat the instruction, “Point North for me, please” if you need to get an exact bearing to head towards – and in this way you should never get lost.  The Pendulum can similarly point in the direction of a specific town from your location using, “Point towards New York, please” or whatever place you wish, and it will <search> and then settle into a compasss-type swing in the appropriate direction.  But, be careful with this one!  Because, there are many towns of the same name, so specify (as you would need to also if using a search engine on the internet) the state or county if there might be ambiguity.

The Pendulum can also find things or people that are lost.  Bad Moon Rising reported recently having found some lost documents by using the Pendulum.  The first thing that might come to mind would be to ask it to point in the direction of the object or person, but there is another method and that is to ask it to guide you to the object or person/animal being sought.  To give an example of this, let’s say that you want to locate your cat.  Now, it may be upstairs sleeping in a cosy corner out of sight, and let us say that you are downstairs in the living room.  Just asking the Pendulum to ‘point’ will give the direction but does not indicate whether it is downstairs, upstairs (since the Pendulum can find the direction no matter what the height), or even in the garden or street. So, it is often best to proceed by asking the Pendulum to guide you to wherever it is.  Say simply, “Guide me to my cat plese” (if you have more than one cat it is sensible to specify its name, unless this is very clearly in your mind).  The Pendulum will then <search> to find the cat, and then settle into the most appropriate direction to head towards it, which will be of course the door out of the room.  Observe the Pendulum as you steadily walk in the direction indicated, and you will notice it turns appropriately as you get to the hall.  Follow the direction indicated.  If the cat is upstairs, then as you reach the stairs it will point in that direction, and so you proceed, following the Pendulum as you would follow a compass needle.  This should then lead you to the cat, or whatever it is that you are seeking if it is nearby.

The Pendulum can also locate from a great distance, using a map in front of you – but that is a technique for another time, after the basics have been assimilated, and as I said before, a thorough reading of the whole thread is essential to a full understanding.

In the meantime, members can try these things out and hopefully  report their findings for all to share.  But don’t forget, that first and foremost the Pendulum is a tool for inner-development and the exploration of all things new to give a higher perspective (and that is the main theme of this thread).  Above all, have respect for it, because it can teach you many things.  Lack of respect, or constant ‘testing’ of its validity will lead to it failing to respond well to you, and may result in it ceasing to respond altogether until that respect and open receptivity returns with a willingness to learn what it is capable of giving you.

Patrick - Hope this helps you, and look forward to hearing further from you with your experiences.

Novice - i've just spotted your post as I came to submit this, so I shall respond to that in another post just as soon as I can.  You will appreciate that, due to my eyesight it takes me some considerable time to actually read a post and respond. But, having briefly glanced at what you've written above, it seems that you are getting well attuned to the Pendulum and it is responding well to you, though not always in the way you expect; I shall deal with those points when I reply, because they're important to address. In the meantime thank you for your open input which is valuable.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK

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« Reply #165 on: June 30, 2003, 17:00:13 »

What I don't get is why some people automatically assume just because the pendulum moves that it is psychic ability, or someone communicating with them.

Surely it is your subconscious communicating. It produces movements in your hand so tiny that your conscious mind can't percieve them without some form of amplification (i.e. a pendulum).

I think this is infinitely more preferable than communicating with some muppet spirit of dubious provenance. If you want to chat to some spirits, get lucid, go OOB. Easy - why bother with a boolean pendulum?

However, if you're sitting in an exam, quickly scan the paper with your eyes and go through the questions with the pendulum and let it guide you to the right questions. Etc.

What I am saying is I think it has far more mundane and practical uses.

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« Reply #166 on: June 30, 2003, 17:26:03 »

Mayatnik, I'm glad to see you decided to return.

I have been using the pendulum several times daily, for the Experiment thread in General Metaphysics. Something that made me stop and reconsider all my assumptions, was when I held my hand *absolutely* still. Merely resting one's elbow does not ensure your hand is stationery. For people who doubt this, try holding the top of the pendulum thread to your forehead (something that isn't liable to the minor movements of the forearm). Press your hand into your forehead to ensure there is no extraneous movement. Better yet, rest your entire forearm, hand and fingers on the edge of a desk, dangling the pendulum from your (now very) fixed fingers. What do you get? I got nothing, absolutely nothing, and that was after getting 5 inch swings moments before...Makes you wonder what's really at work...if the pendulum really is being moved by something other than me, why does it look, feel and seem in every way to be my own hand doing all the movement, unconscious or otherwise?

Here's something else...close your eyes during a pendulum session. Mine stopped moving straight away, and all I got was the natural movement of a bob on a string. With my eyes closed, no matter what verbal, mental or other pressure I exerted, that pendulum couldn't move. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 (ie, my hands, my eyes) together...I asked it "Are you my subconscious?" and it said "Yes"!! What is one to make of that?...needless to say, it was quite an eye-opener.

You haven't bothered to reply to any of my other questions, but I guess there's a first time for everything... Simply because a question is difficult, it doesn't make it or the questioner 'negative' or 'closed-minded'. I began by taking all your instructions and guidance at face value - the only difference is I tested them, as honestly as one tests one's computer, for faults. Is it right to present some knowledge to an open group, but then dodge any serious concern that is raised? I'm glad to see in your recent posts you are now won on the virtues of 'group effort'. If that's so, I'd appreciate your very experienced answers on the questions above.

As for the theory that any inaccuracy on the part of the pendulum is a 'test' by one's higher self, aliens, etc... this is rather spurious don't you think? You say that the 'pendulum' can access the Akashic records, yet any time a person has so far used the pendulum for precognitive questions, it has never once succeeded, including both mine and Novice's questions. Are these all tests? How long does the higher self, aliens, etc require such testing for? And what is it's purpose - is this really the form that 'guidance' takes? Do you think wrong answers are more likely to guide us, or confuse us?...If only I could go back to my Uni exams and explain to my lecturers that I was simply 'testing' them with my 'guidance'. Your guide says she is an evolved alien being, delivering knowledge of higher dimensional learning via direct telepathy, yet to date she still fails to locate someone astrally and report their initials... Does this sound right to you? I'm writing so bluntly for a reason - your writing is influencing students, and you should be accountable for the accuracy of your statements. I myself teach classes of students in psychic development, and we should both know the responsibilities of a teacher are significant. If people blindly trust this pendulum with matters of consequence, you are partly karmically accountable for the results. I sensed you very briefly saw the possible truth in the objective comments I raised, but the conclusion was simply impossible to accept, and Karek was very quick in giving reassurances within the belief parameters that you are now accustomed to. The belief system you have is very hard to break out of - it is self-validating (ie, no external validation) and you have constant extra-sensory affirmation. Could the possibility of the pendulum being the subconscious explain various people's weird dialogues, the failure at objective testing, the limitation to one's own eyes and hands for it to be effective at all, and the general lack of real intelligence? Could it also explain the uncanny ability to locate missing (forgotten?) items, make intimate personal statements, or invent excellent fiction? Is this remotely possible?

Just some thoughts friend... Although I have chosen to write more harshly than usual, I can tell that you have a good and giving nature, and you are genuine in your desire to spread such valuable knowledge. I only ask that you consider the possibilities. Like I said before, Karek will resist this process, both overtly and covertly (through offering more 'guidance' and 'encouragement' to examine things, but still within your current beliefs). You sound like you're opposed to book-learning of any kind, but you might want to look at Prometheus Rising by R.A.Wilson, a truly mind-expanding practical examination of the nature of thought, both normative and abberative, and it's ability to invent and affirm itself. Check out the reviews on amazon if you don't believe me.

PS: I just noticed boomy's posting on the next page...how synchronous [Smiley]
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« Reply #167 on: June 30, 2003, 18:02:02 »



Wow, this thread is starting to get *really* interesting. That's one heck of a post Mr-13, and I too was glad to see Mayatnik return.

As regards your post, I particularly liked, "If only I could go back to my Uni exams and explain to my lecturers that I was simply 'testing' them with my 'guidance'". That was sweet.

Credit to Mayatnik, too (which I realise you recognise). This promises to be one heck of an interesting debate. AstralPulse is just the best, and the quality of the postings here prove it.

Yours,
Frank

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« Reply #168 on: June 30, 2003, 18:52:29 »

Mayatnik: Welcome back! I know you took some "hits" in logic, but a far exchange of ideas is never a bad thing. The danger lies in refusing to look for the real meaning in what is being said, and in refusing to allow for the possibility that your own horizons an be expanded. And believe me, I have more than a little experience in folks' calling me a dunder-head because of some thought I've thrown out. But it's just a philosophical difference and it can be sorted out.
13: Don't give up so quickly! Sort of on the same line as above, honest inquiry can yield surprising answers. I don't know right now if the pendulum is responding to my mind, or to the energy field I have tapped into, or to something else entirely. I do know that 100% accuracy is not to be sneezed at! (I posted more on this on the general metaphysical thread). You say you expect the pendulum to move entirely by itself -- maybe, maybe not. From my perspective, I am willing to accept that I am causing the movement, though I try to keep it minimal. When I ask a question, I try to stay "in tune" with the Chi (for lack of a better word). And as Mayatnik says, I try and keep my questions very clear and concise. What I want to know first is whether their is actually a connection to anything. If my answer to the "What" is yes, then I'll start working on the "How" and "Why".
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« Reply #169 on: June 30, 2003, 19:30:15 »

13-
Interesting comment. I also was concerned that my fingers were moving the pendulum. But, from previous posts on this thread, it was suggested, if I understood correctly, that the higher self was influencing the sub-conscious to move the pendulum with some kind of very subtle energy being transferred to do so. Although I could be wrong in my understanding.

Not to throw a wrench in your post. However, I also just attempted what you described. And this time my results are different from yours. I held the pendulum string to my forehead (over the 3rd eye) with my finger. I then asked it a question mentally and it responded with a noticable swing. Not as strong as with my fingers, but definately movement. Then I asked a question to get a negative to response. And the bob swung back/front only for No (which is consistent with my NO using two fingers).

I also tried asking questions with eyes closed and the pendulum in this position and that worked too. The only difference is that the movements were no longer the 2-3 inch swings, but smaller 1/2 inch swings. However, they were still discernable and consistent with the responses I've had using 2 fingers. Although I had begun using the pendulum with my eyes closed and holding the string between my thumb and finger. That would produce the larger swing answer.
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« Reply #170 on: June 30, 2003, 19:41:35 »



Well, it was Mayatnik who proclaimed himself, in capitals, from the start... that the "truth" shall be known.

Go for it, old chap.

If there truly are aliens visiting this planet on a regular basis whom you are in touch with, then by all means send them to me. I don't mind. I'd love a quick trip to Alpha-Centuri and back.

I'm being totally serious.

Yours,
Frank

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« Reply #171 on: July 01, 2003, 00:32:37 »

I realise this is over 11 pages long, but i just wanted to report my findings.
I grabbed the first thing i could find to use as a pendulum last night (it's around 11:30 am next day now). It was a set of ear-phones you use for a discman or the like [Cheesy]. I picked it up, held it all in a bundle in my right hand, and let one of the ear pieces dangle. I asked it to give me 'yes' and it gave me a definite across-the-body motion. 'No' was the opposite. I tested it on further questions and i was happy with the results.
I've just now written out the numbers 1-0 (1 2 3... 9 0) on a piece of paper, and tried to find out what year galileo galilei was born and what year he died (something i couldn't for the life of me remember).
In the end i got 1567-1643. The real dates are 1564-1642. I don't think that's half bad for my first attempt at finding out something i didn't know. I believe i would have got the correct results had i double checked all the letters and not been so careless.

I'm pleasantly surprised at the success of an ear piece in guiding me to a near-correct answer! At the moment i am of the idea that it works by channeling into my sub-concious mind, or the universe (when i read that poem out i thought of the universe as God) and gets me the answers from there.

Thanks for the help MAYATNIK!
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Links Shadow
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« Reply #172 on: July 01, 2003, 01:40:00 »

Ah finally I have some solid swinging going.  Today after asking questions for about 20 minutes the swings started becoming more pronounced about an inch past vertical to both sides.  Although I have yet to find a question that requires "searching", I really want to see what the circular motion looks like.  Does anyone have any ideas of what questions I could ask that might require searching?

Thanks,
Links Shadow
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« Reply #173 on: July 01, 2003, 01:53:16 »

Links Shadow, i simply say "show me a searching motion, please." and it cirlces (anti-clockwise by default, although it does circle clock-wise if i tell it to).
Sorry if this has been covered already, but i also found out it can swing diagonally, in both positions (outward-inward left-right, and outward-inward right-left. outward being away from my body, inward being towards my body). I'm not sure what these directions could be used for ('maybe'? [Tongue]) but they are certainly there.
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« Reply #174 on: July 01, 2003, 02:42:51 »

An inch past VERTICAL?  As in vertical being 90 degrees either direction past the bottom point?  :O  Mine goes about an inch either way.  But 90+ degrees seems like whoa.

~Squeek
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