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Author Topic: And the truth shall be known - You'll see !  (Read 115175 times)
goingslow
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« Reply #175 on: July 01, 2003, 03:58:09 »

13, I agree with a lot of what you said in that last post.  I too thought it was my fingers moving the bob and I was given the answer earlier on this forum 1st or 2nd page its supposed to be your fingers that move it.  It influences your subconscious, and causes it to move.

I personally have to agree its better to learn the truth and the truth usually comes about by being open to all possibilities and ruling out many of them.
Even though I want to believe this is a pure and reliable thing its probably better to see all sides.

I got a few contradictory answers when I asked the bob the same questions in different environments.  For example, at work compared to home.  AFter giving it some thought I saw a lot of truth and the probability we are chanelling things other than just our higherselves or guides.  In fact why wouldnt we be?  The Ouija board is looked down on because it lets in any entity, but didnt we just take for granted the only thing that would come through here would have our best interest at heart.

I wonder what robert bruce thinks about this.  I think this would be a good thread for him to give his opinion.  I personally want to know all theories before chanelling IF that is what this is.  Ive never been interested in chanelling anything because I dont feel prepared.  
Im not saying there's anything wrong with it but that isnt something Im interested in doing right now.

Its just reading the initial arguments I believed (maybe blindly) the only things coming through would be spirit guides etc.  Any thoughts on this (I haven't read this whole thread since its long so sorry if its already been answered)
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13
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« Reply #176 on: July 01, 2003, 04:00:08 »

Novice and GreatOutdoors, thanks for the update on the pendulum work you've done. Frank, thanks for the compliment [Smiley]. I'm glad in a way to see the results are different from my own, strange as that may sound. I guess the first thing would be to confirm what results people get with a strict "firm hand" method - could you ask a series of questions normally, and then ask them again with your entire forearm and hand resting on the edge of a desk *and* with your eyes closed? I literally have only my fingertips hanging over the edge. Novice, you're right in that the "firm hand" test in itself doesn't preclude communication from something external, only that it seems dubious given the mind's own ability to generate pendulum swings. Also, the mind has many generally untapped abilities - guessing the number of paper clips in a hand is very easy for the subconscious...I've met people in the flesh that trained in subliminal dynamics (www.subdyn.com) who can access the intelligence of their subconscious and tap vast, "Rain Man"-like, abilities.

To be honest, I've no firm assumption one way or another, be it subconscious, astral or guide theory. Perhaps a single explanation is not possible, nor reasonable. To use an analogy, I can pick up the phone and talk to either my mother, a criminal, or the Prime Minister with equal possibility (even if not equal probability). The phone mechanism remains the same, but I'd be mistaken in thinking I was always talking to my mother when I spoke to a criminal (although perhaps not so mistaken when thinking I was talking to a criminal when talking to the PM [Smiley]) The question is, is this a bona fide analogue phone connected to the outside world, or am I talking into a little plastic Fisher-Price plaything connected only to my head?

Mayatnik, I realise that the recent flurry of excited debate can seem frustrating, perhaps even pointless. In my consulting work, I know that the *best* ideas are subject to the *most* scrutiny and excitement from people, simply because they are so good. You have every right to be proud of the knowledge you initiated, it has given many people their best experience of the non-physical. But the way forward, like all science worthy of the name, is to allow a group of peers to discuss, experiment and critique. This is all that's happening. I for one am not interested in artificial disputes or ego battles - only at making a best guess at the truth of spiritual topics.
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« Reply #176 on: July 01, 2003, 04:00:08 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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clandestino
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« Reply #177 on: July 01, 2003, 07:03:26 »

Hi 13, good point. the most radical ideas are always subjected to plenty of scrutiny.

I don't think we are debating that the hand is moving the pendulum. This movement is facilitated by a combination of concious / subconcious action.

Perhaps we should be debating the merit of the pendulum, instead of blindly accepting Mayatnik's expertise.

Whilst I recognise that Mayatnik is free to "teach" astral pulse members the techniques of "divination", I feel its very important that people here realise the reality of this thread.

This quote is taken from Mayatnik's first post:

 
quote:
over the centuries to locate water, oil, buried artifacts at archaeological digs, and even missing people – to name but a few of the many uses that Dowsers have turned into an accurate science. A science is not by definition ‘spiritual’; it deals only with that which can be tested and accurately repeated


And this one from the most recent post.

 
quote:
I therefore hurt when this is so because of knowing the person could learn so much from being ‘open’ and receptive to all that is new to them rather than taking a ‘testing’ attitude to the Pendulum which is there to teach. Berating the teacher for the teacher’s perceived ‘inaccuracy’ is to miss the point altogether.


Again, this post is not meant to offend . I just want to be rational !!
Mark
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MAYATNIK
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« Reply #178 on: July 01, 2003, 07:39:51 »

13 -
I’m sorry I’ve not been able to get round to replying to you sooner, but this has been mainly to do with the large amount of time it physcially takes me to respond to any post.  Because of me only being able to see at a distance of 2 inches away it is not only in the time it takes (several hours to read and respond to an average post) but mainly because your posts have had so many questions of me in them that I could not deal with that amount of detailed editing (cut/paste) that would be required to address all your points adequately.  I am my own worst enemy – always have been, so a lesson to be learned there for me – in trying too hard.  I have actually spent hours composing posts to you, but because of your aggressive manner (and my inherent gentless of approach) I didn’t submit them.  It wasn’t because I didn’t have the answers for you or that the questions were difficult to answer, for they weren’t.   It was because I couldn’t put it in the way I wanted to, as I found my answers were matching your questions in tone – and that is not me.  We must all be the way we are, until such time as we may change.  So, this post reflects how I am, in myself, and you must take me as you find me.

I respect the way you are because you are very sincere and conscientious, and even though we differ in our viewpoint I think you are a dynamic asset to the thread, in your own way.  And I thank you for all that you are trying to do, in your contributions, and hard work, here.  You know the old saying, water will find its own level.  Well, that’s the way I look at this thread I started.  It has never been my intention to domineer or impose on the Free Will of participating members; that is never the  way forward.  The instructions given by my guide were to enable an initial stability for progress.  Some of the instructions, it will be noticed, were strict in where the Pendulum should be placed, and as some members have now found out there is often considerable latitude in the positioning of the Pendulum – and it is good to see members proceeding with confidence in that respect. The guides, however, felt that by giving exact positioning it would ensure the maximum number would achieve confidence because of optimum conditions initially, and that was the purpose.

Our initial disagreement, 13, was over the <search> mode, as it was important to have that function for later more advanced work that I have not explained yet, these being only the basics I presented (until my most recent post where I added <compass> and <guided-direction> modes, to assist members in gaining a greater ‘rapport’ with their Pendulum, as well as being positive ways of obtaining verifiable results.  It is important to see that the Pendulum can give very accurate answers, all the more so because at times it will be observed to seemingly give incorrect answers, even patently so on some occasions.  When such answer occur, this is the Pendulum’s way of teaching – because that is its main function for the beginner, as he/she invariably finds out very soon, though they may not recognise it as teaching.  I would ask members, since it does occur not infrequently, to consider this point, rather than assuming that the Pendulum is wrong or even lying.  This is not a ‘theory’, but is the way my guide explained it to me, after much experience at figuring out in my early training what exactly was happening.  I realised it was testing me in different ways,  but as a result of maintaining a positive and patient attitude I learned much for my inner-development.  When, now, on occasions I use the Pendulum it gives me no incorrect answers since it is a tool for my work when required rather than a ‘learning’ tool.  When it seemed obvious that the answer was not right, then I would respond respectfully with such as “I feel that is the wrong answer – do you agree with that assessment?” and it may respond with ‘yes’.  I would then ask it, “Are you just trying to make sure I’m awake?” and – with an obvious sesne of humour – it would often reply with a large ‘cheerful’ swing of ‘YES’, but at other times when I got the ‘No’ response I would follow this up with a question like, “Am I thinking about this in the wrong way?” and very often it would reply ‘YES’ or ‘yes’ – depending on the degree; and, of course, that would lead to further questioning as I tried to fathom out just what it was trying to teach me there.  When I did get to the point of finding out, by continual respectful questioning, the lesson was well learned, and worth the effort.  And, I soon learned the art of lateral and oblique questioning, increasing my skills in addition.  So, I can say from my own experience that the Pendululum never failed me, eve when it gave me what seemed at the time to be wrong answers, because I benefitted enormously as a result of a steadfast positive approach and willingness to learn.

Where we differ the greatest, 13, is in what you and I consider to be  the ‘source’.  Members too differ among themselves, and this is understandable.  My answer to that would be that, in time, the Pendulum will teach the diligent user this anyway, provided that they have respect at all times for the Pendulum.  If this is practiced there is less negativity (such as denial, or berating) and negativity always repels positive entities, whatever class one may ascribe to them, so is unproductive and can often lead to the Pendulum ceasing to function well for the user.  Another point that arises from this, is where one user reports it is their ‘Higher Self’ it is working through whilst another says it is a Being.  There is nothing, in the early stages,  to say that one person is ‘in touch’ or communicating with a higher Source than another except by the Universal Law of ‘Like attracts Like’.  So, the more positive and respectful the approach then a like source will be attracted.  What will be discovered, my guide tells me, will be according to the level of the individual and their needs at that time.

Therefore, while this thread is a ‘group activity’ in one sense by our interaction, it is support of the individual and sharing by the individual that will show the greatest overall progress.  This is a Free Will world, and all is allowed and should be encouraged in each individual, rather than looking for ‘group consensus’, because each person will learn from the Pendulum in their own way.

These things I say from my guide, because unlike you, 13, I do not have any ‘education’ and never had the opportunity, due to me being Registered Blind and circumstances concerning that, to study.  So, without my guide I would not be here now able to write this and other information (in such as Frank’s <QUESTION FOR MAYATNIK>) and that is why I know my ‘source’, and have dedicated my life to helping others for the last 8 years since my wife’s death and an incredible  shared OBE, the like of which I have never heard described by anyone else.

Earlier in this post, I said I was my own worst enemy for thrying too hard – my guide has told me this time and time again, but that  stubborn old Mayatnik has always fought it.  Now I’ve finally seen sense.  Friends have told me that being online for 48 to 60 hours at a time is stupid, no matter how good my motives may seem in wanting to respond to everyone.  Old Mayatnik has to own up, and say I’ll respond when I can but please forgive me if I’m slow at replying, and I may not reply to all, but but it’s not to avoid.  And I’ll be around, watching whenever I can.  Thank you, 13, for pointing out to me that I hadn’t replied.  You taught me something – to just be the me I was meant to be.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.

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Frank
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« Reply #179 on: July 01, 2003, 08:19:13 »



Mark: I'm glad you made that point. I was thinking along the same lines because the two statements look to be saying the opposite. Plus, there was the other point about guessing cards. I hesitate to ask because Mayatnik has indicated such questions are upsetting: but what's the difference between guessing cards or guessing water?

Yours,
Frank

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« Reply #179 on: July 01, 2003, 08:19:13 »



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13
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« Reply #180 on: July 01, 2003, 11:54:05 »

Thanks Mayatnik, I appreciate your reply and the gracious manner in giving it. I'm sorry to hear about your sight impairment and the effort required to read and respond. I'm disappointed that you might have found my tone abrasive - I've never tried to be, and in fact spend quite some time toning down each response before I post [Smiley].

We do have different, and perhaps irreconcilable, methods. I understand the points you make above, and your general message. To me, without solid insight (examination, reason and objectivity), one can interpret the pendulum as any number of things. I don't mean to imply that rationality is cold, since I know that genuine messages of higher beings can often be cryptic and confusing (to human logic). The problem lies in many inconsistencies - the pendulum saying one thing then being proved incorrect, time after time, or simply not demonstrating what would be minimally expected of higher intelligence. For example, I could fictionalise that the pendulum is actually my alter ego (let's call him 14 [Smiley]) in a parallel universe communicating with me. I could fictionalise that when I hold the pendulum it is in fact me that swings while the pendulum stays still, and that it is simply a device to measure how much the universe is swinging at any one time. Without objectivity, a belief system is a 'fiction'. With total objectivity, a belief system is truly a 'best guess', something I prize in my metaphysical pursuits. When I say "objective", I mean "does not contravene direct evidence or logic", not necessarily "physically verifiable", since many aspects of the spiritual cannot be tested physically at this time.

I wish you the best [Smiley]
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Lasher
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« Reply #181 on: July 01, 2003, 12:26:36 »

quote:
Originally posted by 13
 I could fictionalise that when I hold the pendulum it is in fact me that swings while the pendulum stays still, and that it is simply a device to measure how much the universe is swinging at any one time.



13,

Have you ever read Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco?
If not, then you should check it out.  Your above quote reminded me of this great novel.  I've posted a review below.

Lasher



From Publishers Weekly
If a copy (often unread) of The Name of the Rose on the coffee table was a badge of intellectual superiority in 1983, Eco's second novel--also an intellectual blockbuster--should prove more accessible. This complex psychological thriller chronicles the development of a literary joke that plunges its perpetrators into deadly peril. The narrator, Casaubon, an expert on the medieval Knights Templars, and two editors working in a branch of a vanity press publishing house in Milan, are told about a purported coded message revealing a secret plan set in motion by the Knights Templars centuries ago when the society was forced underground. As a lark, the three decide to invent a history of the occult tying a variety of phenomena to the mysterious machinations of the Order. Feeding their inspirations into a computer, they become obsessed with their story, dreaming up links between the Templars and just about every occult manifestation throughout history, and predicting that culmination of the Templars' scheme to take over the world is close at hand. The plan becomes real to them--and eventually to the mysterious They, who want the information the trio has "discovered." Dense, packed with meaning, often startlingly provocative, the novel is a mixture of metaphysical meditation, detective story, computer handbook, introduction to physics and philosophy, historical survey, mathematical puzzle, compendium of religious and cultural mythology, guide to the Torah (Hebrew, rather than Latin contributes to the puzzle here, but is restricted mainly to chapter headings), reference manual to the occult, the hermetic mysteries, the Rosicrucians, the Jesuits, the Freemasons-- ad infinitum . The narrative eventually becomes heavy with the accumulated weight of data and supposition, and overwrought with implication, and its climax may leave readers underwhelmed. Until that point, however, this is an intriguing cerebral exercise in which Eco slyly suggests that intellectual arrogance can come to no good end.
Copyright 1989 Reed Business Information, Inc.


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Amber
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« Reply #182 on: July 03, 2003, 04:22:09 »

Great books, still wading through Name of the Rose. I amy just give up and watch the movie...lol

Mayatnik,
I wanted to thank you again for the invaluable tool. I used it the other day to locate my keys, get relationship advice and figure out whether or not to drop a class...it's really come in handy. Although I thought it was completely off when it told me my keys were in the living room, but I later realized it had actually been pointing towards the cupboard in the hall where I found them! lol




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13
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« Reply #183 on: July 03, 2003, 14:57:32 »

Hi Lasher - I haven't read any of Eco's books actually. I generally prefer non-fiction but I saw the reviews for Name of the Rose and Focault's Pendulum and I am tempted to being Name of the Rose [Smiley]. I enjoy a good story, and the several fiction pieces in my library are all similar recommendations by friends, for good intelligent novels.
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Gandalf
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« Reply #184 on: July 04, 2003, 00:51:34 »

I would just like to respond to 13's concern (about moving the pendulum) by repeating a point I made earlier in this thread.
IMO the fingers certainly ARE responsible for moving the pendulum, I was never under the impression they were not. But that doesnt mean it doesnt work as described. My view of the pendulum is that it equates to any other divination/oracular tool (like ouija), that is it provides a link to the subconcious. Now, sometimes this will be the only benefit, I use tarot as a tool to start talking to my subconcious. However, sometimes intelligences outside of the subconcious can use your subconcious/unconcious as a bridge to try to get something over to you.

So what am I saying? Well, do your fingers move the pendulum? Of course they do. Your subconcious sends signals to your brain which sends them to the fingers. This way if you keep your mind as clear as possible your subconcious has a means of communication with the awake mind.

Equally a guide or other being may use the opportunity to send signals to your subconcious which then also get transmitted (via finger movement to the pendulum. It is the skill of knowing which is which that is the important factor.

So 13, in my view of how the pendulum works, it is very important to allow the fingers to be able to move the pendulum at a subconcious level, otherwise it will not work. I am not suprised that you have zero results by dangling it from your head or whatever. I was actually suprised when I realised that some people thought it *was* some kind of mystery force moving the pendulum!
However, once it is established that the pendulum can be used for subconcious communication then its function  as a tool for receiving communications from *outside sources* should also be considered.

Regards,
Douglas


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13
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« Reply #185 on: July 04, 2003, 21:41:22 »

Gandalf - thanks, I realised the same thing a little shortly after I posted that. The thread was simply too long for me to bother reading every prior page in detail, otherwise I would have noticed it much earlier. I really don't see much use for the pendulum in my daily practice at all now - as a subconscious communication tool, I have deep trance which is like talking/seeing/being in your subconscious. In terms of receiving messages from one's higher self, I use other oracles combined with energy sensing - eg, when my higher self wants to give me a message, I ask it to flash energy through a particular hand when I pass it over a given rune or tarot that is the answer to a concern of mine, and complex messages can be given in this way with multiple runes/tarots. I have tested this form of divination with many many rational tests - it has never failed at the card-guessing or other similar tests - which is why I felt that at least one of my pendulum sessions I did communicate with my HGA, because afterwards I validated this in an oracle session. I don't make it a habit to seek answers from my higher self - life and its lessons sometimes need puzzling over, and much pain, to be learnt. But just this past week I had good reason to contact him again, and it worked as ever - startling, confronting and a clearly higher message that made everything right again.

My best wishes [Smiley]
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Celeste
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« Reply #186 on: July 05, 2003, 22:46:11 »

Hello MAYATNIK
 
  Sorry I'm about to get controversial. You sound like you are well intentioned but I need comment even though it will go against the current here. Maybe just for some balance. [Cheesy]  
quote:
My guide later explained to me it was that way in ancient times also, for those who learned the CORRECT use of the Pendulum – and my guide, Karek (who incidentally incarnated on this earth in ancient times as both Inanna of the Sumerians and the Godess Isis of the Egyptians) had taught me that correct use


 Your guide claims it was/is the Goddess ISIS?

  I make it a policy not to trust any 'guide' that says it was a "god/dess' or anyone famous for that matter(!)  Pt 2 of my policy states not to trust a guide that tells me that "I" am special or chosen in any way or that the information is special.[Wink]
 Hey, but that's just my policy...
 
   
quote:
First though, let’s dispel one misconception that may exist in the minds of some readers; the Pendulum is NOT in any way whatsoever like the Ouija board,


   In fact, the Pendulum can be used in EXACTLY the same way as the Ouija board.   If a person is using it to 'communicate' with spirits/guides then it is being used "Mediumisticly" same deal as the ouja board.  I think it pays to recommend discernment in all things Spiritual. But, hey...that's just me.
   As well  this little 'Kantra'--I'm not sure how fool-proof it is.

celeste
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Mirador
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« Reply #187 on: July 05, 2003, 23:27:36 »

I love you Celeste!  'that's just me' is pretty clever. You will never fall pray easily. Also, rest assured that it's productive to get controversial, plus it's positive to believe we are well intentioned. And most important of all, your wise statement to the effect that first and foremost we have to 'keep our balance'.

Great going!

Mirador
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MAYATNIK
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« Reply #188 on: July 06, 2003, 04:17:36 »

Hello Celeste -

Sorry I'm about to get controversial.
Don’t apologise, you obviously intend it.  But why do you feel you are controversial, I wonder?
You sound like you are well intentioned but I need comment even though it will go against the current here.
You think that comment is not allowed?  There are many contributors to this thread, and each has their own viewpoint – and, in fact, that is the purpose of this thread….. to explore and question – by means of the Pendulum, yes, but also to share viewpoints regarding it….. as you must have seen if you’ve read all through this thread.
It is a Free Will world, and if you feel that you are ‘controversial’ then that’s fine.
Maybe just for some balance.
Too much overall agreement? You are then maybe playing the ‘Devil’s Advocate’?  If so, good thinking.  Thank you for your input.

So, you say…..
quote:
Your guide claims it was/is the Goddess ISIS?

I make it a policy not to trust any 'guide' that says it was a "god/dess' or anyone famous for that matter.


I agree entirely with your point there in general.  I say in general because when you look at the large number of so-called Clairvoyants that are so called ‘Inernationally Acclaimed’ and very often with large Internation Bank Accounts (more real than so-called) there are a considerable number that lay claim to having Godesses or Famous People who once lived, as their guide.  And it does not apply only to that ilk alone – much play is made by some people who report stories of their ‘Past Lives’ as Famous Personages also.  Let’s face it – by whatever name you wish to call it the end product is Marketing.  Whether a person may deny this, and protest that they are utterly genuine, the ‘product’ rings the cash registers very loudly, because some people are still guilible.  You, I take it, are not.  And I would say that none of the contributors to this thread are either, from what I’ve seen in these posts.  In fact, it would be an insult to intelligence to suggest that, given the material that I have presented here.

I do not do this, nor indeed any activity in my life, for money.  I have dedicated my life entirely to this and often work between 48 and 60 hours online in a ‘day’ (due to my extremely poor eyesight) between necessary periods of sleep, either posting here or counselling online – I receive no remuneration whatsoever, and the happiness in my soul from helping people is something that money cannot buy.  My life is simple.  I just receive a small pension for being Registered Blind, and because I am sat at home I can devote my life easily to this ‘job’.  So, I don’t need to wave any prestigious Guide-title as my ‘source’ since I am not marketing anything.  Nor do I have any ego-agenda to become famous; I could easily have my work published and give lectures as a channeler, or have my own website.  But my guide has asked me to come here and tell members at the Astral Pulse about the Pendulum, in the way it was once used and has now been revealed to me to pass on.  I was not even permitted by my guide to pass this method on to the public domain for 8 years.  I would ask, “When can I tell people?”  And my guide would say, “When it is time”.  And when I told in the post the name with which my guide had once incarnated it was, and I used the word incidentally, in contrext to what I was referring to... namely those times.

For a long time I didn’t even know the name of my guide.  It took 2 years before I was told my guide was a ‘she’, and a further 2 years went by after that before  she revealed her name, Karek (which, she said means ‘Bright Star’).  It was about 3 years after I came to know my guide as Karek (her real name) that we were talking telepathically (which we do for hours and hours, a constant joy to me because she is a wonderful teacher and ‘personality’ with a good sense of humour  too) and during the course of our conversation about the Sumerians and Egypt in general she happened to mention that she had incarnated as Inanna and later was known as the Godess Isis – and she told me some private details about Osiris.  The ‘myths’ are not what people think they are, but that is not for me to tell and a person can use the Pendulum to find out more about such things…..even to check if what is written is true – and that applies to what I write also.  Of course it depends on whether a person is using the Pendulum properly or not, and the whole purpose of this thread is to enable a person to Divine Truths correctly (but more on that later).
quote:

Pt 2 of my policy states not to trust a guide that tells me that "I" am special or chosen in any way or that the information is special
Hey, but that's just my policy

I have never said that I am special, nor even implied it.  I am simply giving the information that I am asked by my guide to give.

Chosen?  I did not ask to be a channeler.  I did not ask to be given this gift of telepathy.  I did not ask to be here to explain what ‘chosen’ means.  I was simply chosen by my guide to do this, so that is what I do.  Perhaps you mean it as in “The chosen One?” – as somebody ‘special’?.  People often put ‘colouration’ onto a certain word and transmute it in a kind of verbal alchemy, according to how they view it - rather than seeing it in its full overall context.  I write a whole essay for a post to explain carefully, with humility, what my purpose is here.  But, if a single word fills the page in a person’s perception and conditioning, then by effectively ‘blocking out’ they may well not see those other words and miss the point.

You go on to say:
quote:
In fact, the Pendulum can be used in EXACTLY the same way as the Ouija board. If a person is using it to 'communicate' with spirits/guides then it is being used "Mediumisticly" same deal as the ouja board. I think it pays to recommend discernment in all things Spiritual. But, hey...that's just me.

I explained carefully at the start of this thread about the ouija board, for the benefit of those who weren’t aware that ‘communication’ by that means can be extremely dangerous.  I won’t repeat the details here, since the reader can refer to the full explanation.  Suffice it to say, that negativity is attracted to an ouija board, and can even leave its imprint on those people engaged in such activity, leading to depression and worse, and often affecting the surroundings also.   Invariably, my guide tells me, ‘lower entities’, and those of a negative disposition as well as elementals are attracted to the ouija board and can in no way be relied upon to give answers that will assist inner-development or be of any real worth spiritually.  I note from elsewhere on the forum that you have a manifest and keen interest in Psychic Defence.  I, personally, do not use any psychic defences nor do I need them.  The key is in being POSITIVE, calm and Fearless.  Love and Compassion are the opposite of Fear.  The Universal Law is that ‘Like attracts Like’ – and Fear is negative, while Love is the most Postive emotion that can be sent out, attracting Loving Beings of Light.

You say:
quote:
As well this little 'Kantra'--I'm not sure how fool-proof it is.

If you use a ouija board then you don’t use such a Kantra, and you seem to imply that the use of a ouija board is at least akin to use of the Pendulum, so I fail to see your point here since you would seem not to be concerned regarding the ouija board without a Kantra yet wonder about the ‘effectiveness’ of this Kantra with the Pendulum (presumably as a ‘protection’) so there is fear implied in your statement, and fear is negative and will attract negativity to you – thus creating a vicious circle leading you to seek more Psychic Defence ad infinitum.  Maybe you see this Kantra as being a form of Pyschic Defence – but it isn’t; it is simply an affirmation and dedication.  Also, it was given to me by telepathy from my guide, and is written in no book on Earth, which should say something to you.

Finally, you conclude:
quote:
Hey, but that's just my policy

I don’t have a ‘policy’.  I just receive the message and pass it on – just ‘as it is’.  The rest is up to the reader.   It’s a Free Will World.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.

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« Reply #189 on: July 06, 2003, 14:05:12 »

Thanks for the nice words Mirador!!  

Hello Mayatnik
 
  Now see, you are taking my comments personally---that was not what was intended. I'm sorry if you were offended.  

   I'm not referring to corruption on the human side. I would definitely not not believe "a spirit" that says it was a 'god/or goddess' in a past life.  But like I said, that's just me.... It is not meant as a  challenge of your personal integrity.  Spiritual "guidance" that I trust does not come with impressive names, labels or personalities. It is neutral.

   If the pendulum is being used in a mediumistic type way it is susceptible to the same problems as the Ouja board. The board is just a piece of cardboard--it is simply how it is being used that attracts tricksters & causes problems.

 
quote:
If you use a ouija board then you don’t use such a Kantra, and you seem to imply that the use of a ouija board is at least akin to use of the Pendulum, so I fail to see your point here since you would seem not to be concerned regarding the ouija board without a Kantra yet wonder about the ‘effectiveness’ of this Kantra with the Pendulum (presumably as a ‘protection’) so there is fear implied in your statement, and fear is negative and will attract negativity to you – thus creating a vicious circle leading you to seek more Psychic Defence ad infinitum. Maybe you see this Kantra as being a form of Pyschic Defence – but it isn’t; it is simply an affirmation and dedication. Also, it was given to me by telepathy from my guide, and is written in no book on Earth, which should say something to you.
Huh?

  I will put in this post from Robert Bruce because I think it carries wisdom in it.

 
quote:
G'day Forum Folks!

Just thought I'd drop in and throw a few pennies for thought...

I have had this debate with many people, and it is circular. I am still waiting for anyone to present solid evidence based on experience and not belief and wishful thinking.

First, I would like to preface this post by suggesting that all who take offense to these PPSD related pages, and who accuse others of wallowing in darkness, catching fleas from dogs, and of creating evil beings because they dare to consider and discuss such matters, to avoid this section of the forums. These pages are for discussion of PPSD related matters, including evil spirits and etc. They are also a place where people troubled by Negative spirit type problems can find help and advice. Open debate on these matters is always welcome, or course, but please ease up on the heresy charges and finger pointing, just because the subject matter herein does not fit in with personal beliefs on how the spiritual universe works.

 If one follows the newage love and light approach too far, by refusing to acknowledge Negative entities and their activities, because you are afraid of creating and or attracting same into your life, you end up like a spiritual ostrich with its head firmly in the sand. This is both illogical and dogmatic, where open and progressive thought is required. In time, if enough people followed the love and light approach to the exclusion of hard life experience and other viewpoints, all knowledge of the forces of darkness and their Neg minions would disappear, as would the few methods we have of avoiding and or defending against same. But this would not stop the spread of darkness. Nothing is ever learned about a subject if it is ignored and avoided.

Should we have the bible and other holy texts and spiritual books revised to remove all mention of hell and demons and darkness? Do you really think this would remove all evil spiritual beings from involvement with human life? We know so little about these things, and even less about what can be done to help those afflicted with dark spiritual problems. And our knowlege on these matters will not increase by avoiding the subject or burying it under an unworkable paradigm. Sure, love and light do play a big part in spiritual existence, but this is not the be all and end all of everything.

This relates to the saying ' that the greatest thing the devil ever did was to convince humankind that he did not exist'. Denying the existence of darkness simply gives it the freedom to do whatever it likes, and removes all hindrance to the spread of darkness.

It might seem like one could remove all evil spirits from this world, if one followed the love and light paradigm closely, and by ridding the world of everything that reminds us of evil, or that teaches us about same, so no one could ever think about it. But have you considered what this would do to the world if this paradigm were faulty? Note that I strongly believe this to be a faulty and unrealistic paradigm. Out of sight and out of mind does not necessarily make something disappear. This just makes it easier to live with something one finds difficult to accept.

The belief that all Negative entities and evil spirits are insubstantial thought forms, created by some people having bad thoughts and unspiritual lives, is a totally unworkable paradigm. However, this neatly fits in with the love and light paradigm, and seems to have been invented to cover up serious flaws in same. This is because the evidence of the existence and activities of Negative spirit entities cannot be denied without generous doses of wishful thinking and irrational denial.

As to the 'getting fleas by sleeping with dogs' thing, well, this is partly true. Sure, if you associate with bad company you are more at risk of attracting Negative attention. But what about the numerous cases where people come under Neg attack for no discernable reason. They just happen. Sure, you can say that all these are caused by 'other people's beliefs' creating and feeding Negs, but this theory does not hold water in the real world. We need practical solutions, not high-minded spiritual theories best suited to the heavens and other exalted states of being.

It is very clear to me that Negative spirit beings are heavily involved in the karmic equation, with the application of same. These beings are drawn to inflict negative karma on humans (suffering), just as all of humanity is involved in the application of karma to all other individuals. If this is correct, then it would be impossible to remove Negative entities through high-minded wishful thinking. This would also be contrary to the laws of applied karma, and contrary to the purpose behind physical incarnation. As I said in PPSD, if God wanted us to live lives of spiritual purity and security, He would not have put us down here in the physical universe in the first place. Did God make a mistake? He would, instead, have put is in some lovely heavenly place where everyone is loving and nothing could ever hurt us. But the fact is that He chose to put us here in the dimension of hard life experience, Negs and all. There must be a good reason for this.

I think it is much more realistic to work with what we have down here, rather than to rely on wishful thinking to fix everything about life that we don't like or can't accept.

Please keep in mind that I did not write PPSD just becaue I thought it would be a neat book to write, or because I dabbled and experimented with dark forces. The content of PPSD evolved during a lifetime of ceaseless spiritual attack, that began when I was about 3 or 4 years old. I am not the only one who has lived such a life. Read the books by Whitley Streiber, eg, 'Transformation' and 'Communion', where he speaks of similar things, albeit from a different perspective. But it is very clear to me that Whitley and I are talking about exactly the same thing. What he calls 'visitors', I call 'Negs'. They are one and the same. I would also like to point out that most of the great saints in history also lived lives of strong spiritual attack. This even includes the dear departed 'Mother Teresa', who struggled against darkness all her life, and underwent a number of church exorcisms.

 Any person who makes a strong spiritual statement with their life (or has potential to do same) will immediately attract the forces of darkness in some way or other. This will often happen many years before such a life statement is even conceived, often in early childhood. The reasons for this are two fold: one can be likened to how positive and negative attract, how natural enemies (or predator and prey) gravitate towards each other. The other reason is that to succeed in making significant spiritual progress, resistence is necessary. Neg forces provide the necessary resistence that allows a person to go beyond their normal mortal limits, to reach new heights of spiritual awareness and accomplishment, eg, spiritual evolution.


If my past were changed, so that all dark spiritual attacks were removed, I would not be the same person I am today. I would certainly not have written any significant books or even be writing this post today. The difficulties and torment involved with my life, including dark spiritual attacks, have not only driven me in a particular direction, but have driven me to learn, to adapt, to grow stronger and wiser, and to overcome same."

Take care, Robert.

   
 celeste  



she who marches to a different drum  [Wink]


 
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Parmenion
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« Reply #190 on: July 06, 2003, 21:48:12 »

Hi Celeste,

Just my 2 cents but the way I read it there was no personal offense taken by MAYATNIK to your comments. That is as I see it. You obviously disagree.


With regard to the pendulum. I am glad to see active arguements against what has been said to be the correct use of the pendulum. Personall viewpoint aside, objectivity and nondiscriminatory debate can only be healthy.

As I mentioned in an earlier post I have used the pendulum in the past. I have tentatively began to use it again following the poating of this thread. The results so far have been interesting but nothing I wish to share at present. In the future I may post my progress, once I feel comfortable doing so. I feel it is only fair given the amount of effort put forth by a man who is registered blind (and is indeed almost constantly online), to give us the information as he understands it.

Take care,

Dave
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« Reply #191 on: July 07, 2003, 08:29:54 »


quote:
I was actually suprised when I realised that some people thought it *was* some kind of mystery force moving the pendulum!
However, once it is established that the pendulum can be used for subconcious communication then its function as a tool for receiving communications from *outside sources* should also be considered.

Regards,
Douglas



Douglas: Okay, call me thick but I too thought it was come kind of radiation that came from the chest area (Chakra?) that caused the pendulum to move. I got this idea from Mayatnik's first post, thus:

>>>>The Pendulum should be held for accuracy in use, in front of the body with the ‘bob’ about 6 inches directly in front of the breastbone for the beginner especially to ensure the strongest ‘signal’ to activate it and start it moving in the appropriate direction.>>>

Up until now, when trying to get my pendulum to work, I have been especially careful to make sure my hand and fingers are as still as I can make them so as not to (as I was seeing it) interfere with the "signal" driving the pendulum. Which, as I say, I thought was some kind of radiation.

It would appear that the "signal" driving the pendulum is not radiated from the body but is transmitted through the nervous system and activates various muscles as per normal. Only the difference is, it is more of a subconscious activation as opposed to a deliberate one... am I right?

Yours,
Frank

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« Reply #192 on: July 07, 2003, 11:16:51 »

It would appear that the "signal" driving the pendulum is not radiated from the body but is transmitted through the nervous system and activates various muscles as per normal. Only the difference is, it is more of a subconscious activation as opposed to a deliberate one... am I right?
Yours,
Frank
--------------------------------------------------------------

Frank, I think that this is certainly how the pendulum works. In my own experiments I was able to willfully move the pendulum in any direction I wanted, I then realised that I would have to try to keep my conscious mind blank, this way the subconscious could be allowed to flow as it were, sending signals to the brain which cause minute movements in the fingers.
To me it just makes a lot more sense than etheric energy influencing movement, There doesnt seem to be anything for the etheric energy to do!

Also, if you just try a little experiment and pinch your thumb and forefinger together and concentrate on the pressure. You fill feel all these minute movement sensations, it doesnt take much to influence the swing of a pendulum.
While many sceptics involvement would probably end here, this is where I differ as I don't see how finger movement detracts from the usefulness of the pendulum, anything which can bypass the awake mind and allow the subconscious to manifest is very useful, as the biggest stumbling block to all things astral/spiritual seems to be the conscious mind!

Regards,
Douglas



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« Reply #193 on: July 07, 2003, 11:27:40 »

CELESTE –
quote:
Now see, you are taking my comments personally---that was not what was intended. I'm sorry if you were offended

That is your perception.  And in that you could not be more worng.   When I respond to input addressed to me personally I normally will preface my post with that individual’s name for reference – but, my words in reply are for the benefit of all readers.  Even when I am replying to a specific problem/experience etc.  I bear in mind that each member is coming from their own particular direction, along with their own habituation and conditioning (which all carry, as human beings) and are in process of shedding for a lighter load as they progress along the way.

There are many forums here on the Astral Pulse, each with it’s own very good purpose – to increase spiritual enlightenment.  Why else should they be here?  And why is a person is drawn to a particular forum at any one time – often that person does not consciously know why they stumbled across a particular forum, nor indeed what they are looking for very often initially.  But all are guided, unseen, in this way.  So it is, that we interact, as members enter debate on issues they are suddenly confronted with as they come across a thread.  So it is with you, Celeste.

You still don’t seem to have got what I was explaining in my previous post, because you reiterate the very same things and in that way there is no movement forward.  It is not about agreeing, it is rather about positive addressing of issues.  What I was explaining was not about guides but about how people ‘colour’ their perceptions,  and how understanding is further clouded for others by misuse by some people of ‘facts’ for their own ends.  That situation is very real and tangible – not some astral ‘presence’, but what certain people take on.  Face it, whatever any astral being may say it is up to the person how they take it… because it may very well be an ‘ego test’ for them, and so many succumb to this, as I pointed out.  My mention of a particular incarnation of my guide was purely incidental and had no bearing whatsoever on the validity of the thread nor indeed of anything said in it.  Neither my guide nor I  have any need to use any ‘title’ from mythology to pursuade people of anything.  Had that been the case, then it would have been prominent from the start, as it always is in the case of those who make extravagent ‘spiels’ for the purpose of ego-enhancement, pushing a point or – most often – to ring the cash register.  Yet you do not even acknowledge this in your reply, which would have been a positive interaction by you because the existence of that situation in life is widespread and only serves to distort perception and restrict growth by those who are thus beguiled.  All those facts, and any others can – not incidentally but definitely – be verified by users of the Pendulum who have a positive and enquiring attitude.

My object in starting this thread was to present the ‘basics’ and for members to grow as they encounter from their own experiences with the Pendulum, and to discuss those things freely regarding that.  If you wish to participate, then you will have experiences to share with others.  If you are speaking from a ‘ouija board’ perspective then it is clearly a different experience (whatever that may be).  To take a ‘stance’ from a different perspective on another ‘activity’ is akin to glowering over the garden (or in this case, forum) wall and commenting on their garden with regard to yours.  By definition, a stance is an obstruction in the doorway of learning, and I would say to you – as also to all others – Come in, and look around… but be positive in your questioning, not negative.  There is much to see here and absorb for ongoing thought in this thread.  It is members’ contributions that make this thread, and I am merely presenting guidelines for safe exploration.  Two things are paramount in this – (1) that contributing members should have read carefully ALL the material here presented.  I realise that the thread is long, and a summary is in process of being written by myself on the ‘basics’, and which will take into account points raised by members.  (2) This thread is only in its first ‘stage’, and members’ positive input as they participate and experience will carry it forward – so I have presented here only that which is necessary for this particular stage, and members themselves will progress to the next stage…..each in their own time and at their own pace, sharing along the way if and as they feel an inner prompting so to do.  As this happens I shall expand further with explanations and guidance given.

Because I do not mention Psychic Defence in this thread does not mean I don’t know about it.  On the contrary, I am fully aware of the issues that Robert Bruce and others raise for awareness and to help people who have problems in that area.  I have the greatest respect, and indeed applaud all that Robert Bruce is doing, but I would suggest that you don’t know him for he is far more than he presents, and if you had walked his difficult path then you would know the more that he is.  And you certainly don’t know me, even if you were to read and carefully think about all that I have written up to this moment here.

I have not mentioned my knowledge in other spheres, since I wish the focus to be on Positve Progress in applying the Pendulum - but I will now point out here that I have successfully dealt with many situations to do with ‘entities’ and other things that arise due to people having a lack of true knowledge in such as magick for instance.  And, in my role as a Therapist and Counsellor I have where necessary undertaken House Cleansing and also such as the removal of spells from talismans and the like.  I have also been called out late at night by church ministers even, to perform exorcisms.  I do not participate in those forums on the Astral Pulse that are dealing, each in their own way, with those topics, nor in any other topics of which I have experience.  My purpose here at the Astral Pulse is to present and deal with ongoing experiences concerning the Pendulum – and I wish to keep it at that.  As I said earlier, each forum has its purpose and exists to help members who feel drawn to each topic.

You have quoted from another source in your reply above – but I wonder how much you understand of what you’ve quoted there.  As Robert Bruce so rightly puts it (to quote from your quote):
Robert Bruce states clearly:
quote:
Open debate on these matters is always welcome, or course, but please ease up on the heresy charges and finger pointing, just because the subject matter herein does not fit in with personal beliefs on how the spiritual universe works.
Quite right, Robert!  Now think about those Wise Words when considering the writings of anyone else.  The keynote is respect at all times for what has been built, at whatever level of perception.  Whether it is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ is in the perception of the reader as they progress - and perception changes as it will with growth.  Full participation is fundamental and essential to grow and ongoing positive experience is the teacher of the inner-self, whether it is in interaction with other people or non-human.  One thing is certain – that negative interaction will bar the way forward, as well as presenting obstacles that can confuse and slow the progress of others who may read any negative input thus causing a need to go over ground that has been previously laid.  So, Robert Bruce is quite right – because he seeks to move members forward and avoid any disruptive and therefore unproductive ad-hoc input from those who are not participating.  So, I say again to you – You are welcome to participate, but this is an a Ouija thread.  I am sure that members would welcome any expertise or even experiences you might wish to share; but, a thread of your own would be the best place for an alternative ‘method’.  That you state it is the same indicates clearly that you have not studied the subject of Divination fully, however – and that quite apart from your need to apply Psuchic Defence particularly because of dangers in areas of such experimentation that methods like Ouija lay one open to.  I have to again here caution any members who use ouija board ‘methods’ about the very real dangers inherent in such practices, and they are well advised to keep away from such or to learn about Psychic Defence.  This Pendulum method does not need Psychic Defence (in fact it is counter productive, as there is inherent safety in using it, and negative attitudes will only serve to make the Pendulum malfunction and even stop working altoghether as it has its own ‘safety cutout’). Divination Dowsers, over the centuries, have never found any need to use Psychic Defence in its use, nor has it ever when properly used been the cause of any Psychic Attack.  Whilst this ‘advanced’ method I present here is not the same (not as ‘basic’) as the Traditional Dowsing Technique, it should be noted that the ‘source’ of Divination (what makes the Pendulum actually work) is the same, and over those many centuries has been found to be trustable even when many Dowsers have not known exactly what that source is.  The Ouija board, on the other hand, has brought people to my door who have suffered greatly as a result of its use, and I have had to remove negative entities that have become attached to not only them but their house causing severe dpression and even irrational behaviour affecting others along with manifestations and/or persistant negative influences.  If this pertained to the Pendulum I would indeed incorporate such defensive methods as were needed.  But they are NOT neede here, nor will any negative influences in a person’s life affect the Pendulum, although some (like yourself) may indeed be prone to negativity and perceived attack in other spheres of life, and those people should continue to employ Psychic Defence to those other things as and where they feel appropriate.  Those who have not encountered a need for Psychic Defence do not need to pursue it.

Since you bring the subject up, with reference to Robert Bruce, let me make it quite clear here….. that negativity is a necessary part of life to encounter.  It is in encountering resistance that we are ever impelled forward.  Lack of resistance means stasis, and in that condition the Universe would grind to a halt.  Push creates counter-push in all living things (in fact, in all of creation).  But this does not mean that counter-push has to be aggressive, in fact aggression only serves to increase the opposite push, and is akin to the notion that some have of ‘imposing peace’.  If anyone finds themselves dealing with ‘lower entities’ then the approach of a good parent to a child is worth bearing in mind – Respect teaches respect at all times, so do not use force for it will only result in opposing force.  Order in the Universe is created out of chaos, and deep rational thinking directs the irrational onto a path of positive and therefore productive creativity.

The words of Robert Bruce, from which you quoted, puts it into context admirably here:
quote:
if God wanted us to live lives of spiritual purity and security, He would not have put us down here in the physical universe in the first place. Did God make a mistake? He would, instead, have put is in some lovely heavenly place where everyone is loving and nothing could ever hurt us. But the fact is that He chose to put us here in the dimension of hard life experience, Negs and all. There must be a good reason for this.

Neg forces provide the necessary resistence that allows a person to go beyond their normal mortal limits, to reach new heights of spiritual awareness and accomplishment, eg, spiritual evolution.

Prime Creator (as the Pleiadians term the God of all perceived ‘Gods’) is the Source Of All.  So, Prime Creator made all – and that includes whatever resistance that is encountered.  That applies to ALL realms of creation, each playing their part.  ‘Negs’ come from Prime Creator therefore, in his Infinite Wisdom for us to learn.  ‘Out there’ are infinitely vast reaches of exploration far far beyond Man’s ability to comprehend, but we are promted to ever seek forward – not too ‘bar the door’ with inappropriately huge defences, for that only increases Fear of the Unknown in our minds.  Consider where you live….. do you need defences against what is happening in your neighbourhood?  In some places there is great danger, and in others much less so.  For some, even, there is virtually no danger at all.  But that does not mean that there is no ‘resistance’ factor in our lives, because we are constantly being presented with resistance to our inner growth, and it is there in the ‘scenario’ of our life experiences to aid us in reaching ever onward and upward.  We have the choice to ignore, skate round, things.  But they will be re-presented at another time, for us to confront without fear… to deal with issues in life’s lessons.   Again, alluded to in the words of Robert Bruce…..:
quote:
I think it is much more realistic to work with what we have down here, rather than to rely on wishful thinking to fix everything about life that we don't like or can't accept.
Very true!  Positive action will achieve, though it may be through personal pain or having to come to terms with things that were once thought ‘absolute’ and therefore a seeming comfort.  This is exactly where the Pendulum comes in, because it is a learning tool first and foremost for inner-development.  Though it gives answers, and these answers will be found to be more and more ‘accurate’ as the person progresses in their inner-development, there is no ‘answer on a plate’ and the answers are only part of a much greater whole which must be worked through as perspective increases and habituation and conditioning drop away like scales from our eyes.

Robert Bruce makes this further highly significant point:
quote:
Any person who makes a strong spiritual statement with their life (or has potential to do same) will immediately attract the forces of darkness in some way or other
This is something for readers to ponder deeply upon.  Because in that quote lies the meaning of what life is all about.  Throughout History, those who have stood up and proclaimed their Truth have been attacked, vilified and even put to death.  And yet Man has still not learned the lesson.  Religion has taught people to “pray for Salvation to end this ‘strife’ of the ‘mortal coil’” – therefore Religion teaches avoidance and puts the onus on others, usually a ‘Saviour’ to come and tidy-up the playroom of Man’s kindergarten.  It is time to grow up now, and realise that those who stand up and proclaim the Message they have been given to teach will always be vilified and obstructed from doing this by a cloak of confusion that forces of ‘darkness’ would throw over that Light.  Darkness’ means simply ‘ignorance’ in whatever form it may take, and however ‘well intentioned’ a person may feel in their conditioned reflex to maintain the status quo when something appears to challenge their ‘comfort zone’ of perception which may be avoiding further enLIGHTenment.  There are always higher and higher perceptions to be reached, and an open and receptive mind is the means by which that ladder will be climbed.  Nothing is the way it seems from the ground, or even higher…..so we must ever seek with unblinkered vision to see more than the closed confines of habituation.  And, until respect for all that is new is reached there will always be those who will attack.

I have been attacked many times (by both Black Magick and Voodoo 'illwishers' as well as both physically and mentally), and been vilified to try to ruin my life and discredit me so that none would believe a word I said.  In fact, I have had assassination attempts on my life, having been shot 5 times – on two of which occasions I have been very close to death.  Such has been the ‘resistance’ to my revealing of Truth, and the uncovering of what certain ‘organizations’ behind the governments seek to subvert in our society.  My dear wife died at the hands of such people, to try to shut me up.  They will not succeed.  As I have said before elsewhere, “If they should kill me, then I will open every file from the other side”.  The attempts have stopped several years ago now, beause they know I mean exactly what I say.

To quote Robert Bruce’s words of Wisdom for the final time here:
quote:
If my past were changed, so that all dark spiritual attacks were removed, I would not be the same person I am today. I would certainly not have written any significant books or even be writing this post today. The difficulties and torment involved with my life, including dark spiritual attacks, have not only driven me in a particular direction, but have driven me to learn, to adapt, to grow stronger and wiser, and to overcome same.
My sentiments exactly!  From my earliest childhood I was given suffering in the form of abusive ‘parents’ and who kept me imprisoned, not allowed to go out and play with other children and beaten if I spoke even.  I never knew my natural parents, who are Russian, and was brought up by an old couple who should never have had children.  Apart from being virtually blind I was, later in life crippled on 2 crutches for 20 years as a result of my hip being smashed… plus knowing things claivoyantly about what really goes on behind the closed doors of those that are the true power behind governments, and which led to incredible suffering as I was forced by circumstances to engage with those ‘dark forces’…. finally the death of my wife, my “little lifetime-pal”.  That is when I decided to dedicate my life and existence here on this Earth to what I now have done for the last 8 years – to Channel the Pleiadian Beings of Light who ‘gifted’ me with abilities to do this job….. and I shall continue in that for what there is yet to do as long as there is life in my body and beyond.

Therefore, I thank God for all the suffering He has blesed me with for my inner-growth and I am truly grateful for all that I have been given to experience and deal with, for those things have made me the person I am today.

To sum up – It should be noticed, that I have answered your post in a positive, embracing manner…to add constructively to what I have said before, and to add further to the excellent words of Robert Bruce – rather than adopting some defensive, negative and potentially destructive comment which would at the least confuse those who may have suddenly come across this thread without reading the preceding posts carefully and thoughtfully to get a better overview of what it is all about.

So, Celeste, it is with love that I say these things to you, and for all members to ponder on my words and those of Robert Bruce here because much lies behind them – and for you to always be positive, because that is the way forward, no matter what you may encounter.  Even more than that, respect all in the Universe – for everything has a place and a purpose..... whether it be the topics here on Astral Pulse, the wider world or even realms beyond our perception... all is there that we may learn from and grow.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.
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« Reply #194 on: July 07, 2003, 12:43:10 »

Well, first off, Celeste, I would have to agree with Parmenion and Mayatnik. I didn't perceive any negativity in his response to you at all. Although you may have been expecting that type of response. Not sure. I do have to agree with you on your points however. I also distrust anyone/thing that tells me either they are famous or special/chosen or that I was famous or am special/chosen for something.

Mayatnik-
I guess that's my dilemma with the pendulum. A lot of what it says feels intuitively right. But then other things it says feels extremely far-fetched and unbelievable. What do you recommend when determining what to believe as truth and what to believe as a test? It has given me incorrect responses in the past and when I ask, it will tell me it was testing me. That's fine. But I've been doing this for two weeks, and every few days, I'll ask it some questions regarding the 'improbable' stuff it told me in the beginning, but it always gives me the same answers. It has yet to say that those responses are 'tests'. I still don't believe the answers its given me though.

I've even gone as far as to ask "could these answers be a test"; response YES. "would you tell me if they were"; response NO. "Should I continue to try to verify what you are telling me"; response YES. The problem is I really don't have a cut and dry method for determining if what its telling me is true or not. I would very much welcome any recommendations/guidance you may have in this matter. And it could be that the only way to verify is to keep asking and waiting.

Frank-
I'll join the 'thick' league with you. From Mayatnik's initial description of the pendulum I too thought it was affected by not only the heart center, but also the 3rd eye. Since the length of the string he described, at least for my body type, would line the end point at my 3rd eye, with the bob level with my heart chakra. ANd the 3rd eye is associated with psychic powers and what is termed the Christ Consciousness and the heart center is to be the seat of unconditional love; once an individual is functioning through purity in line with divine will. (Caveat - these are my associations to those chakras and could deviate from other's perceptions of them.)

What I have noticed though, is strong energy movement. I hold the pendulum between my thumb and forefinger. And when I'm using it, I can distinctly feel tingling and energy movement in those two fingers, right where I'm holding on to the string. Unlike Gandalf, I don't hold it tightly though. In fact, I hold it very loosely. But I have very strong energy surges/movement during the time I'm using the pendulum. So I know that its not energy radiating from the two main chakras directly, rather energy being sent to my fingers to move the pendulum.

Do others feel this type of sensation? And if its the sub-conscious, should I be feeling energy? I thought it would be simply minute muscle movements.

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« Reply #195 on: July 07, 2003, 13:53:35 »

FRANK and GANDALF -

Good to see your enquiring minds comparing notes in your posts  there.  I am sure that you both – and any other members of a scientific or investigative nature – will be interested in examining the ‘modulations’ put out by various bodies, be they animal or human, when I write further on this in my proposed Summary.  In it I shall be explaining some Traditional Dowsing Techniques that are designed to examine ‘radiations’ emanating from not only ‘living’ (and that includes plant life) but inanimate objects, all of which have an electromagnetic ‘signature’.  Only that which is living gives out a ‘dynamic’ and modulating energy, and such as rocks have a ‘static’ signature.  Of interest also, should be the fact that certain stones – such as those at Stonehenge and similar ancient sites have a specific radiation ‘pattern’ unique to themselves, and with additional ‘information’ in their electromagnetic vibration that ‘points’ in a particular direction, and that being towards another stone; thus a ring of powerful electromagnetic energy is concentrated at these ‘Sacred Sites’.  It has been found, also, that such sites have a ‘finger’ of energy emanation that points over a wide distance to another site, and so on.  In addition to this, the energy detected in ‘ley lines’ has a connectivity to these sites.  All this, of course, is detected with great and consistent accuracy by using certain weel-defined tried and tested Dowsing Techniques by those who have carefully researched the findings of others and extended the knowledge thus gained by discovering new facets over time.  By special Dowsing Techniques using the Pendulum, it is possible to ascertain, for example, not only the strength of energy radiations, but also their height, and a feature called their ‘banding’ which is proportional to the height of a stone, plus being able to quantify the other features I have briefly described.

Another thing that will be of interest to the serious investigator with a scientific-bent is the fact that stone that has been ‘worked on’ by such as stonemasons in ancient times has an ‘imprint’ of the person who hammered that stone into its shape.  The sex of the person who hammered the stone can be verified - and even the time period when it was done to very close limits, due to this ‘imprint’.  This has been verified many times, and also independent testing by expert Dowsers who have hammered stones at different times and then got other Dowsers to ‘inspect’ those stones to reveal the sex of whichever Dowser had done the hammering and also when.  It has been found that a single sharp blow on a small stone is sufficient to leave this ‘imprint’.

Yet another use of the Pendulum by Dowsing Archaeologists (you would have to be an archaeologist to have access to such artifacts) is in the examining of skulls.  From such Pendulum ‘examination’ it has been proved to be able to quickly ascertain the sex of the person or animal, their age until death, and a very accurate indication of the time period in which the once inhabitant of that skull actually lived.

To clarify the point you both refer to, regarding ‘radiaton’ and what I said in my first post (and a couple of others)…….
 
My aim in those posts was to give very simple instructions that would work with the vast majority, if not all, of members when they first tried the Pendulum.   I knew, and it was desirable, that members experiment for themselves – but they would have a ‘reference point’ to return to should results not be consistent.  As some have already noticed, it is not necessary, when one is ‘attuned’ to the Pendulum, to keep it rigidly in one position and there is some degree of latitude (within a few inches) where good results can be obtained.

So, it will be realised, that my reference to the breastbone (or the ‘heart chakra’ position) was only a guideline.  Furthermore, it is not the chakra nor any radiation as such that causes the movement.  However, the chakras (particularly the heart chakra) are involved indirectly.  I spoke earlier in this post about ‘dynamic’ energy – and this is in fact a two-way flow of energy.  Everything, from plants upwards both receives and gives out electromagnetic ‘signals’, and in this way the electromagnetic field of the body ‘modulates’.  The Pendulum operates as you both have ascertained (and as I have said is the case) by minute movements of the hand, subconsciously transmitting impulses originating in the subconscious and being transferred through nerves into the hand, creating the ever so tiny muscle movements that ‘transduce’ into the physical world in a way that we can observe.

Where the chakras come in, is as receptors – the interface from the non-physical – for the subconscious level of awareness to these signals.  In that respect, the ‘healthiness’ of the chakras does affect how well the Pendulum moves; the more ‘open’ they are in general the better the reception – but also, how we perceive answers is governed in a subtle way by the ‘balance’ of those chakras too).

Our knowledge of radio transmission, and even microwave modulated emission would lead a person to thinking along the lines of signals being ‘beamed’ towards us, or at least being radiated from a source.  However, this is not the case.  We are dealing here with interdimensional concepts beyond our technology to comprehend.  There is, no matter what the spatiality no falling-off of receptivity regardless of ‘distance’.  In fact, the energy is not carried in that way, and furthemore ‘travels’ at greater than then speed of light.  In terms of interdimensionality, the ‘source’ can be anywhere, and distance is irrelevant in the brain’s ability to receive via the subconscious which resides in the body’s confines but is not of the body.

Just some more food for thought, and I look forward to your further ‘explorations’.

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.

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« Reply #196 on: July 07, 2003, 15:30:08 »



Thank-you Douglas and Mayatnik for your responses. I think I'm slowly beginning to get my head around this pendulum business. Problem is, as I've said a number of times before, it always seems to take me ages to get my head around any kind of non-physical stuff.

Yours,
Frank

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« Reply #197 on: July 07, 2003, 20:04:45 »

Novice –

You ask me:
quote:
What do you recommend when determining what to believe as truth and what to believe as a test?

Firstly, I’d like to say – because this really helps me see what is happening in Pendulum sessions - I find the way you structured your post was very clear in its explanations of what you were able to do with the Pendulum, even your thoughts regarding what you don’t understand are very helpful….. because results to whatever degree can then be examined by others and compared with what they are experiencing.

It is going to be different for each person, and is therefore all the more important to share thoughts and findings wherever possible.  Since the primary aim of the Pendulum is initially to focus on the person’s inner-development this also means that the person may not wish to make public the exact line of questioning, as it often tends to feel highly personal or, due to the answers they receive, stretches their mind beyond a point they are willing at the moment to step across out of conditioning and perhaps even fear of going ‘over the top’ in being seen to follow a line of questioning.

When I was learning the Pendulum I went through many experiences in my questioning sessions…..so, I know exactly what members can expect, and why it is that way.   I have some suggestions that will help in this, but first I’d like to draw members attention to the excellent, balanced and postive questioning line you are using when uncertain, that you explain in your post…. so, worth repeating here for others to employ in situations as needed.
(I quote from you here in blue)

"could these answers be a test"… response YES.
"would you tell me if they were"; response NO.
"Should I continue to try to verify what you are telling me" …YES.


The user, in this inner-development stage, is meant to ‘play out’ each questioning line and see where it leads by continuing to ask positve questions. The answers may indeed be true (even if they appear to be far-fetched) and no indication will be given as to whether it is a test or not.  You can indeed, as the Pendulum says, “continue to verify” what it’s telling you; that is your Free Will right to do so if you wish – but it is not always likely to be productive, depending on what the answer is and whether it is even possible to verify it.  the whole point of inner-development is that a person’s perception of what is true is relative to their perspective – and the very nature of ‘development’ means that perception will alter. What the Pendulum is therefore teaching is how to examine those areas within in a fresh light, and you will do this by asking as many questions as possible.  The old Native American Indian saying that you can’t know a person unless you have walked in their shoes for a full month is a very profound statement.  If you think about it, by casting off the shoes of habituation and ‘playing out’ the ideas that start to flow as those answers come and which prompt further questions you are getting into your inner-self, starting to walk in new shoes.  So, you will find that this takes on a kind of 'role-playing’ as you go along with the answers instead of discarding them.  Essentially, just go with the flow.  I know, because I’ve been there in that learning situation.  Even if you suspect it is a ‘test’ then still go along with it, to see what will unfold – and, as I keep saying, you will find questions just ‘pop’ into your head.    The Pendulum is far more than a ‘yes’ / ‘no’ device, and when those answers indicate something that is incredible (non-credible to you) then don’t dismiss those answers but explore them as an intrepid traveller on what may seem a Madrigal Mystery Tour but has a purpose because what you are being told may be a Truth that you at present do not see in its correct perspective because of the ‘colouration’ that the world has put onto what it calls ‘status’ in society (the imposed need to conform to an ‘image’ of you, whether it be beggar or king, or any shade of societal expectation for that matter).  

Even ‘words’ have become distorted into connotations imposed on the mind, and in today’s society do not mean what they say but rather what ‘image’ they evoke as a result of conditioning.  The recent misperception in this thread of the word ‘chosen’ is a prime example.  When I use the word chosen to describe that I have been asked to impart Pendulum knowledge here it means just that, and not any self-agrandisement by using that word.  I could have said I was ‘selected’, or even asked (although that does not imply that I accepted, so is incomplete).  I certainly did not ask for this job.  I was chsoen/selected and given it.  Yes, I had the Free Will to refuse it.  And my initial reaction, and for a time remained, “Why me?  I can’t do that, I’m not capable”.  But I was told by my guide that there were two good resons why I had been ‘chosen’ for this job.
(1) “We know better than you – and we know you will be able to do it”, I was told.
(2) “There are two things you need to learn for your inner-development.  And doing this channeling will create the situation to  teach you what you need to come to terms with”.  Still very uncertain that I would be good enough, and other factors, I agreed to do it if my guide felt it was for the best.

You see, I know I have two things in my inner-development that have needed to be worked on, and I’m still working on them even now.  I have always been my own worst enemy in trying too hard, and I was told I had to learn to have some leisure.  I’m afraid I’ve not done very well at that, although I’ve cut down ever so slightly the amount of time I spend online.  I still want to answer everybody, and my guide still reminds me “When are you going to have some leisure and do some of your guitar and accordion playing?”..... “Soon” I tell her, “When I’ve finished this batch of posts”.  But then another batch comes in.  So far, I’ve spent 17  hours today writing this latest batch of posts.  I just love my work so much, but I have to learn to spend time creating music from my soul again.  The other thing I know I have to learn is to not want to ‘hide behind a pillar’ as I put it.  I much prefer others to take centre-stage while I work in the background – but this job does not allow me to do that, and I realise my guide was very crafty in choosing me to do it.  So it is, that I have to respond, having started all this off at my guide’s requret, and take all the brick-bats as well with no pillar to hide behind. “Chosen”?  Yes, with a purpose in mind by my guide to aid my inner-development, and I have no feeling of ‘status’ that I attach to it, because left to my own way I’d much rather run away and hide. These guides sure know what they’re doing, believe me!

You say:
The problem is I really don't have a cut and dry method for determining if what it’s telling me is true or not.
Well, as you’ve found out now… there’s no way that the Pendulum is going to give you ‘answers on a plate’ every time, and certainly the guides’ priority is for your inner-development in the early stages at least.  You will find that for certain things you can accept the answers – in such cases as asking it something that ‘rings true’.  Other times you just have to keep on asking further questions and as you progress you will find that more and more you are developing an ‘intuitive feel’ in how to proceed with your questioning line.  You are, in that way, building a foundation, higher and higher at each stage that feels ‘firm’ and which you can then use as a background in other sessions or the next line of questioning.  I found that the quickest progress is always when the Q/A sessions are long, as short sessions do not give enough time to get deep enough into things.

And it could be that the only way to verify is to keep asking and waiting.
Exactly!  See, you arrived at the answer, even though it only hovers there at the moment, but it is beginning to crystallize!  Be aware though, that the word ‘verify’ should be taken as ‘intuit’, and even then it is only a stage of perception.  Remember, that new frontiers of discovery lie ahead, where scientific ‘verification’ is not possible, but you can nevertheless ‘know’ it is true because it will feel right, since answers will correlate and mesh together to form a picture you can relate to in the new landscape of knowledge you will increasingly explore.  Regard it as a ‘paper chase’, with clues along the way.  Each ‘clue’ (i.e. a new dawning perception) may be the result of a whole long session, and the thought processes it will encourage are the journey between each successive clue.  Along this road you can also use the Pendulum for purely ‘factual’ information – such as verifying whether statements, as you read them one by one, are ‘true’ or ‘false’ – and of course many questions can come from reading each statement.  The Pendulum is truly a ‘learning curve’.  And all this quite apart from it’s use in such things as Food testing, finding missing items or pets, and many more ‘practical’ applications (I leave you to explore those possibilities for now).

So, though there’s no ‘cut-and-dried’ way through inner-development in using the Pendulum I can honestly say that, having been there, it is an Adventure you’ll look back on and say it was all worth the effort and patience – and where it can lead, well…..that will be different for each individual.  But one thing is certain, you’ll be guided along the way as you were indeed guided to come across this thread.  There’s no limit – and the truth shall be known, you’ll see!

With Pleiadian Love and Light,
MAYATNIK.

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« Reply #198 on: July 07, 2003, 22:01:44 »

I posted this in the "Question for Mayatnik" thread the other night but feel I may have placed it in the wrong area. This seems to be a lot more focused on the pendulum and such so I thought I would cut and paste my introduction and notes on the experiences I've had with the pendulum here. I just want to make sure as many people looking for answers will see it and maybe get a spark of excitement or passion for learning. I wish nothing more than to be of service to others and I hope my little part in this wonderful discussion helps at least one person in this wonderful journey called life. Please take a look, it's a bit long but worth the read. Thank you in advance!  

=======================================================================

 Wow. Well I guess I should introduce myself first. My name is Daniel and I have been a friend of Edwards (Mayatnik) for almost a year now. The circumstances of how we came to be friends is a story in itself but I will skip the big intro and get to why I am here (It's almost 4 in the morning here and I'm running on empty!)

I have been struggling for a long time now. Edward has helped me through some dark times and he's been with me through some facinating, wonderful moments as well. It has been a long and drawn out battle for me but I have finally stopped struggling and have let go. I have been reading his posts and posts of others on here for awhile now but have been in a state of confusion for a long time. I quit my high paying job, left many friends behind and decided it was time to do God's work. I struggled. I got worried, depressed, I drank, and pretty much ran away from what I knew I had to do.

The real "shock and awe" began a long time ago when I started to use the pendulum. At first it seemed hokey to me ... "yeah right" i thought. I started out with a friggen bathtub plug on a shoestring as Mayatnik helped me create. Silly I thought. Struggling to let go of my skeptism I finally got fed up and ended up throwing the damn thing accross the room one day. Weeks passed and I didn't even give the pendulum a 2nd thought. Edward would always ask me if I was practicing or what not but I'd always say "Oh i'm going to go out and buy a REAL pendulum. Low and behold time passed and I never put much effort into finding a "real" pendulum. Well one day, buy TOTAL chance and Synchronicity I ended up at a new age shop about a 2 MINUTE drive from my house! (I've lived here 5 years and had no idea this place existed) To my suprise I found an assortment of beautiful Pendulums. One specifically caught my eye. The man at the counter asked me how it felt, if I felt a connection bla bla bla I said yeah give it to me! So here I was with a real pendulum ... no bathplug dangling in front of me to make me feel silly. A real shiny beautiful Pendulum! And the circumstances that brought it to me were surreal, synchronicity at it's finest. There must be something to this I thought!

So with Edwards help I practiced. At first it was still silly to me and I felt I was fooling myself. But with time I started to get a sort of raport or connection with my pendulum ... hard to explain ... like when I went fishing as a kid and could feel the fish nibbling ... I knew when the pendulum was moving on it's own but it still was hard for me to believe. At first I asked silly fear based questions ... unimportant things. With time and Mayatniks help I learned to ask better questions. Then came the panic. All of a sudden I really started to believe. I got excited. My God I thought. A yes or no answer to ANY question in the world I wanted. It made sense. In my past I had met Wayne Dyer and he told me I could have a yes or no answer to any question I ever wanted, I just had to keep moving forward on my spiritual quest to find truth. I wish I was that wise I had thought back then! Well now it was all starting to making sense. The puzzle pieces were fitting together. Then the panic. I fell. I fell hard. I started to go out more with my friends, spent all my money, got drunk waaay to often, I was becoming an alcoholic. I stopped doing spiritual things. I stopped meditating, I stopped living and eating healthy. I had fallen apart. (This is when I decided it was time to quit my job and focus on getting myself back on track) I quit and the first few days were good ... I visited old friends, tried to organize, but then *boom* something really bad happened. I did something Aweful that I still have not told anyone to this day and still seems surreal in my mind. I screwed up. Big time. Days went buy and I lived with FEAR. Thinking I was going to get caught. There was no way I could get away with this. But the days came and went and nothing happened. God saved me. This was not the first time but this time I knew it. It was God showing me I need not worry ... just to let go. I tried. But I was so depressed that weeks had now gone buy, I'd quit my job, had NO money (still have 0$) and people were starting to question me and think I had lost my mind. I became a hermit. Did not leave my house much, drank, smoked marijuana, I ran ever deeper away from truth. But then, very recently, I had a moment, I looked at myself in the mirror and said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

So I am back. I am more alive now than I ever have been! In just days my life started to transform! I let go. I had a conversation with God and told him I was tired of fighting, tired of struggling. I asked for his will to be done. I let go. I've been flying ever since!

Now. Back to the Pendulum. I ran away because of the answers I received, they scared me, I did not want to here the truth. Everyone says they want truth but the truth (no pun intended) is that most people are too afraid to here the real truth. So they hide. They lie to themselves. They run away, as I did. No more. I have started work with the pendulum again and it is amazing! Whooo i'm so excited I just can't hide it! Step by step i'm slowly losing my fears!! Amazing! Following my heart and my intuition combined with my Pendulum things are happening that I cannot even put into words!!!! Magic! It's alive like never before! I can feel changes! big changes! BIG changes! This is what I have been waiting for ALL MY LIFE! I am awakening to things! realizing things. remembering things .... i feel like a kid again! Whoooooo!

The only word of advice I have for those starting out with the Pendulum is this. Have an open heart and an open mind! Judge nothing! If you are skeptical ... the pendulum will not work for you right away until you lose that skeptism and trust! Trust in God! My hope is that I have given some of you a spark to open your hearts and give it an honest try. People have opened there minds to stranger things and found joys and wonders that words cannot express. If you believe with an open heart that you will receive the answers to your questions this is what you will receive! Ask and ye shall receive! This is truth! I just wanted to jump on and say thank you to Mayatnik and hopefully help some of you find a treasure that may change your life and bring you much joy and truth. Anyhow it's really late now, I've gone on and on so I will leave you now and end this with a thank you. Thanks for listening my dear friends and may love and joy find you wherever you are.

- All my love
- Daniel

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« Reply #199 on: July 07, 2003, 23:30:22 »

Mayatnik-
I honestly didn't expect an answer today. So thank you for the quick response. But please feel free to take a day or two to respond next time! [Wink]

My line of questionning for the pendulum has pretty much been focused on spiritual growth/development. I've been asking about past lives, dream themes/symbology, astral experiences, as well as current life purpose/goals/lessons. I really haven't used it much for anything beyond that. However, you are correct, I'd rather not go into details at this time regarding specifics of what I'm asking and what answers I'm being given.

Suffice to say that the guidance regarding dream symbology all 'fits' together. The spiritual concepts/discussions I've had is pretty much in line with what I perceive to be "true", although with a few modifications on my side that intuitively feel 'more right' once I got some additional information.

So overall the concepts and answers I'm given completely make sense and I intuitively understand them.  Its not so much the answers I'm being given, as it is the specific people involved. That's where I have a lot of hesitation (difficult to believe). I also keep asking if it expects me to believe what its saying. It keeps telling me NO. So I keep telling that I'll continue to ask questions, but I won't believe what it tells me until I can check this some other way.

In fact, it can also match my humor and sarcasm one on one with my own (which I guess is all mine since its my higher self). But at one point, in midst of a debate, I blurted out that it would be more likely that I'm mentally or emotionally imbalanced than what you are telling me is true. To which I received an emphatic YES. And then I simply laughed at it and asked if it thinks I'm mentally or emotionally imbalanced and it said NO. And then earlier today it threw another wrench at me. I was getting flustered and said "you're killing me, you know that" and it said YES. So it definately has a sense of humor and can 'hear' mine as well. ANd, as I've illustrated above, often times I'll use other slang terms/words and it seems to understand what I'm saying just fine. I'm assuming that this has more to do with telepathically undestanding concepts as opposed to finite word definitions?

But I did discover last week that often times I'm led into questionning. Answers to questions will prompt additional questions that appear in my head but I don't think originated from me. I recognized this right away and understand that as a step in telepathy.

And I pretty much knew what your response would be before reading your post -- "wait and see". I do realize that a lot of the information can only be 'verified' by intuition. I'm very comfortable with that route. And that's how I've been doing it up to this point. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious.

Thanks again for the advice!
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