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Author Topic: causal/mental/astral where does the ego go?  (Read 1591 times)
« on: January 19, 2003, 17:10:10 »

The physical body is made up of physical matter. The etheric body is made up of etheric matter. The astral body is made up of the substance of the astral planes. The mental body is made up of the substance of the mental planes. As far as higher planes and higher bodies are concerned, what I have read is not consistent.
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2003, 12:38:33 »

About death and the question.....


As soon as you allow for past lives, you open up the question of what happens in between each lifetime.

This could be called the between lives area.

In the Tibetan book of the dead, they call this "The Bardo". A literal translation of the Tibetan title would be something like "A Roadmap of the Between Lives Area".

In 1952, during the first brief period where Dianetics was used to run whole track engrams, there were attempts made to run PCs through this period. The immediate and obvious discovery was that some sort of an implant was being used on the PC in between lifetimes. This would explain the forgetfulness and loss of identity.

But this area is impossibly difficult to research. First of all, there is generally heavy charge on the immediately preceding death. And there is a tremendous loss of havingness, which all by itself could make one feel unreal and disoriented (just look at people wandering around in a daze after their house has burned down, for example).

Furthermore, in dying, the person often feels that he has lost the game and wants to forget the whole thing, so that he can start fresh.

If you mix a heavy implant into this mess, then its not surprising that its all a complete blank.

When an incident has too much charge on it, you get all sorts of dub-in and unreliable information when you first try to run it. If the incident can be flattened by repetitive passes through it, then you can get past this and find out what happened. But if the incident is too late on a long chain, it wouldn't flatten, and instead will start pulling in charge and pictures from earlier similar occurrences.

The between lives is extremely heavily charged, is very late on a long chain of earlier similar occurrences, has implanted commands which give one wrong dates and times, tell one to forget, and otherwise mess one up, and furthermore the implanting uses heavy force on the spirit (whatever energies and masses that he's got left after dropping the body).

I do not have an adequate roadmap for this area. And I don't think that anybody has the complete picture (although I will be happy if somebody can prove me wrong). What we do have are various pieces of the incident, which might be right or at least half-right.

The area is so over-charged that it doesn't tend to show up in lower level Dianetic auditing (you tend to skip over things that are out of reach and too deeply buried). The only time I got a PC into any of this stuff was one time when I was running somebody through birth and asked for an earlier beginning and they found themselves flying through a long tunnel and coming down to earth and into the body. And its hard to say if the incident was real or dub-in even though it cooled down and key-ed out once we got that part of it.

Deaths, on the other hand, show up quite easily in Dianetics and it is quite common to run an incident of dying and then floating up above the body. But its rare to get any further.

I occasionally tried scanning through the incident of dying in my previous lifetime, and moving into my current body. Both of these seem to be fairly real and easy to reach, and at first it was hard to even be sure that anything happened in between. It just seemed to me that I might have drifted around a bit, etc. But I could always get a long fall on the E-meter needle on going through a between lives implant at that time, and the date of it reacted very heavily.

This was not, by the way, the day I was born. It was right after I died in my previous lifetime, and my current body was already 4 years old. I have always had a remembrance of a moment when I was 4 when I suddenly "woke up" and became myself and wondered what I was doing here and looked around with a sort of strange remembrance of the things that had happened in the previous year and yet knew that I was seeing everything for the first time.

As I kept digging out vague bits and pieces of my previous lifetime, I eventually found that I ended up sick and senile in a nursing home. While I was there, I would dream of having a new life and being a little child again. And in those dreams, I saw the first few years of my current lifetime in this body. The two lifetimes overlapped by about 4 years and I was sort of drifting between the two bodies during that time period, and everything was sort of vague and unreal.

In retrospect, I think that at some level, I had the postulate to avoid the between lives by already being connected to a new body before I was willing to let go and die in the old one (it was very sick, but I wouldn't let go because of fear). But this didn't work. When the old body died, I was dragged into the between lives sequence and bashed around before I snapped into the new body.

Eventually I managed to run some sections out of the between lives incident, but I'm sure that I don't have more than the smallest part. I also have a lot of vague ideas, and there are various clues to be found in other materials. But everything here is highly speculative.

According to the Tibetan materials, you have a little time floating above the body with clear perceptions before stuff starts happening to you. They see this as the moment when you can make it out of the whole trap if you fully confront everything. But failing in that, they say that various beams will push and pull at you. They advise you to resist these and go the opposite way, because these beams will lead you to your fate and your karma.

I think if you do go along with one of these beams that pulls at you, you will find yourself rushing through the tunnel that is so often described in near death experiences here in the Western world.

After this, the Tibetans say that the 7 "helpful" spirits or entities will show up. But different versions of the book of the dead describe these differently, and some have completely different mythologies. In the western tradition, you are met by old friends and family as you reach the light at the end of the tunnel. And in the old Christian tradition, you see angels and pearly gates.

I suspect that these are all picking up vague recollections of the same thing. And I would point out that the most powerful implants (such as the penalty universes) always begin with a nice section to suck you in before they get rough.

In the Tibetan book of the dead, after the nice entities are done with you, the nasty ones get their turn, and this includes being judged (and they advise you to reject the judgment). Since this judgment idea also shows up in Christianity, I would imagine that the implant has some sort of a scene of being judged and condemned (or maybe they really have somebody "judge you").

After that, it gets rough. The Tibetans advise ignoring it all and refusing to be scared into a body or pushed into one (pushed into the womb) because that will be the life where your karma is waiting for you, and you'd rather avoid it and continue on with religious studies instead, hoping to achieve enlightenment and becoming free before your fate catches up with you. They say that eventually all these attacks will die down and then you can take your time and look around for a good life to be born into, one where you will be born with some money (so you can pay for lessons) and in a place where you can continue your studies.

Ron's first attempt to research this in 1952 came up with the person going to Mars, seeing the eye in the pyramid, and getting a short (15 minutes) implant where a wheel full of pictures are show to be flying away from him and he is told to forget.

Nothing further was done on this until 1963 when he found a different sequence, taking place in a valley on Venus, where the person passed alongside of a telepathically sensitive screen that showed him his own pictures, misdated and otherwise messed up, and laid in various stuff. See the tape called "Between Lives Implants". He describes the shift to Venus as being a sort of sudden jump where the sun changes size (suddenly being much larger).

In "The Path of the Masters" (written in the 1930s by a Jesuit who studied in India), when they do their astral walking, they see between lives administrative centers on all of the planets (and a city of a thousand lights above the entire affair). They consider that these are all on the astral rather than the physical plane. They don't think that these places are harmful. But they do run into troublesome entities while floating around there, but they say that if you tell these entities that you are a traveler who is serving a higher power, they will back off and leave you alone. In modern times, Paul Twitchel took this path of the masters and mixed in a bit of Scientology and a bit of his own stuff and came up with Eckankar. His list of astral places to visit pretty much matches Ron's list of old implant stations in this area.

There is also a rumor of a late remark by Ron that there are implant stations on all of the planets.

Putting this all together, I would say that you are shifted from planet to planet and receive a short implant sequence at each one. At this point, I can't say if these are physical in a 4th dimension (sideways of the reality we know) or on an "astral" plane (and maybe these both mean the same thing), but they are certainly not in our physical framework. But I do think that you are jumped around from place to place and some funny stuff happens to you. Its even possible that you are only being shown pictures of going to different planets and that it all takes place in one location.

On this basis, the stuff that Ron came up with on between lives implants on Mars and Venus might both be part of the full picture, and there might be a lot more.

We might also find a partial basis for astrology in this mess, not so much on one's current horoscope but on the exact character of the implant one received, with some variation being introduced as the planets shift through the 12 signs of the zodiac. Letting the stars determine the course of your life might well be part of the implant.

It does seem like you rush through a tunnel at the beginning, and again at the end when you're shoved down into a new body.

I did manage to map out a bit of this, as follows:

The relative order of the segments is Mars, then Jupiter, then Venus, and then the Moon. There are other segments besides these.



a) First you are above the planet falling into the great red spot (the eye of Jupiter).

b) There is heavy pressure and velocity. The sky is bright red. Then a white oval appears (energy) and expands and you fall into it. Then energy waves begin tearing and pushing at you from various directions. There is the impression of a grid overhead with pylons and rods.

c) Then you become stuck between two poles which both pull at you and a rotating disk slices through you repeatedly until you stop pulling back together again. it slices you into either 8 or 16 (?) fragments.

d) Then your fragments are tossed into the soul storm in the middle of the red spot. You are within each fragment and there is the feeling that you have lost yourself.

e) Then you (in each fragment) are buffeted around, and there are thousands of souls whirling around with you. You seem to be in a murky sort of cloud, the colors of the cloud shift around sometimes being green or muddy looking or red or orange etc. but the colors always look dirty and faded. There are also endless pictures and symbols, generally from the penalty universes, which fly around and explode at random.

f) Your 16 fragments have a vague correspondence to the 16 dynamics. An implant is run on each of the 16 simultaneously. The first item, in each of the 16, is "To Be Curious About ...", but a different end word is filled in the blank for each one.

The 16 different implant endwords (one in each of your fragments) are as follows:

1. Sleep
2. Sex
3. Orders
4. Rules (laws)
5. Bodies (or "having a body")
6. Energy
7. Entities
8. Death
9. Pain
10. Pictures
11. Sensation
12. Mass
13. Emotion
14. The Past
15. Unconsciousness
16. Time

The same platen of items is used for each of these. The items seem to be whispered in your ear by a soft female voice as you are buffeted around. Each of your 16 fragments receives this at the same time, each one getting the same item but with a different endword from the list above. (its possible that somebody who had been a woman would hear a soft male voice instead?).

The item platen is as follows:

2. TO DESIRE ....
3. TO NEED ....
4. TO CRAVE ....
5. TO BE HIT BY ....
6. TO BE HURT BY ....
8. TO RESIST ....
9. TO REJECT ....
10. TO HIDE FROM ....
12. TO BECOME ....

g) After this, your fragments (and those of other people) are all drawn together at the emitter which is a radiating globe mounted at the top of a great green pylon which extends up into the center of the storm. It is the only calm area (sort of like the eye of a hurricane) and you fall into it. You feel tearing radiation which makes you unconscious.

I think that at this point you are beamed off to Saturn.



I don't have too much on this one. I had trouble running it originally because I didn't have the "point to the being you divided from" process, which might make this easy to handle.

This is a very slow and quiet one.

There are, I believe, 8 gates or archways in a circle around an empty plane of lunar dust. You and 7 other people, in your old (previous lifetime) bodies (but its just a mockup, no spacesuits or trouble breathing or anything) walk out from the gates and approach the center (there may be a series of poles there?).

Each of you is divided 8 ways and the pieces are recombined to make 8 new individuals (a piece of you and 7 others in each of the 8 new people).

There are 8 positions, a central one and 7 entity locations. The 8 pieces that you are fragmented into each go into a different position, so that on one of the new people, you are the center, on another you are the right side entity, etc.

In theory this causes you to become somebody else because you are now a different mixture of entities than in the previous life. But its only partially true. Your main theta line is the center line through these recombinations.

You can, to some degree, remember the last lifetime for each of these 7 major entities that you were combined with, but it is a shadow compared to your true last lifetime (where you were also the center).

This continual shuffling is peculiar to the prison planet mechanics and is how they implement the idea of "dead forever" because you are in theory continually ending as a being and becoming somebody new. There is also the idea that this is prison rehabilitation, because you are made to get along with a varying mixture of other beings by being packaged up with them.

But the whole thing doesn't work very well. Only secondary characteristics shift around, and you get a bit of help or hindrance depending on whether these lesser pieces align or conflict with your own goals and abilities. But your core personality carries forward on the center line and the current actual GPM pattern remains intact etc. One of the foolish reasons that you hold onto various aberrations (and especially your own GPM goals and items) from lifetime to lifetime is a mistaken idea that you need to do this to ensure that you will remain yourself despite this attempt to reshuffle thetans between lives.

I will offer an odd speculation that might illustrate this. A bit more than a decade after Mozart's death (he might have hung around disembodied for awhile), four famous composers were all born within a year of each other (Chopin, List, Mendellsohn, and Schumann). Perhaps they all received fragments of Mozart. As for the core personality, Mendellsohn is the most likely candidate. He was born rich (almost unheard-of among great composers and probably an attempt to solve his previous financial problems), he starts off (age 11) picking up where Mozart left off, reaches his peak at age 17 and then decays, and he dies (without warning or reason, of nothing more than a cold) at the same age as Mozart did. Of course I am just guessing at this.



I don't know much about this one, but it seems to include setting up a lesson or lessons that you are going to learn in your next life.

Needless to say, these lessons pretend to be helpful and try to get you to pull in bad stuff by twisting around your own good ethical nature.

For example, you might be talked into postulating that you will become disabled in your next life so that you can learn compassion. Or you might postulate being tortured by the enemy in a war so that you can learn courage and fortitude.

In truth you learn nothing from these things and it just messes you up further.

The end result is that either you degrade yourself further, or that you say "the hell with ethics" because it has been turned against you, and that is an even worse degradation.

In the long run, these lessons will totally destroy a being's ethical sense.

For now, the only solution is to hold onto your own ethical sense and ignore everything reality does to teach you differently.

Real ethics is doing something because YOU believe its the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with obeying rules or moral codes (and often results in breaking them). It has nothing to do with doing things that others think are good. And most important, it has absolutely nothing to do with learning lessons.

Where real ethics fails (and it often does), it is not because of the person's lack of goodness or because he didn't learn some lesson. It fails because the higher dynamics are screwed up. Ethics is the lowest of the "theta" dynamics (things you do to survive as a being rather than to survive as a body). If you are totally blocked and misguided on higher dynamics such as aesthetics, constructive effort, and reason, then your ethical actions may be aimed at wrong targets. This doesn't mean that you should abandon ethics (that is just sinking further into the morass), it means that you should expand out into a wider zone of creation.

Never cut back your abilities or decide to learn your lesson because you have failed or made mistakes. Instead, vow to do better next time, raise your abilities and awareness so that you can do better, and expand into a broader sphere.



There are other sections which I have not mapped out thoroughly but I've spotted bits and pieces.

In one section, you go through various trick scenes like the following:

You see a stream and rocks in a garden with a fountain at the center. You are drawn to the fountain and you're told that it is the fountain of youth and you will live forever if you drink of it. So you drink, and as you do so, you realize that it brings about youth by making you forget everything so that you can forget aging. It is really the waters of "Leath" / forgetfulness. And you agree to forget everything so that you can

Source: the pilot's super scio....
(search for it on the internet)


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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2003, 12:38:33 »

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« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2003, 21:09:00 »

Hi there!

It's amazing how many things a being can go through between life times(or what is BELIEVED a being can go through). I am a bit confused though with the "sneaky" entities that try to mislead you into becoming what your karma wishes to put you into. I always thought that when a person dies, they hover around for days to weeks even, then go into higher planes (like Robert Bruce describes). Sure the person's spirit will run into some wierd and downright evil spirits[}:)], but then where is God, or The Great Spirit that protects the spirit? I thought that a person is much stronger and more powerful as a spirit and can have a great potential of wisdom and choice of where he/she/it wants to go in its next lifetime, with regards to the level of love and consciousness (karma and life habits) the spirit has reached through other past lives. Also, if a spirit loses total memory of its past life, how can past life regression be possible?

Sorry if the above sounds a bit rude, I'm just really curious and confused with the actual direction and path one takes in general and if there is possibility of "finishing" Earthly lives to become a being of the whole universe or become one with The Great Spirit.

Where IS our home?[xx(]

Best wishes.
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2003, 03:19:40 »

I was just curious if anyone has any material as to how we're put together as we step down into the physical.

Is the so-called (first?) higher self on the astral level? Beyond? At what level would all the ego's related to me re-integrate into a higher self, if that's how it works. Which level keeps track of past/future/synchronous selves, etc?

Are there an infinite number of physical universes in a probabilistic sense? Or are there just other unrelated physical universes besides this one?

Is there a single God (or group!) that created humanity that in turn was created by the underlying One? Kinda amazing that we humans seem to have access all the way to One with enough effort, isn't it?

Along with spiritual writings, what are people's experience with the structure out there? What kind of information has been told to you or you've experienced?

Does a more or less un-interrupted ego exist after physical death? When I say more or less, I mean no more interruption then, say, waking up in the morning.

Thanks! Just curious. [Smiley]

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