Astral sight message about Light & Darkness...

[Blue Light Mystic]

well, a new forumer! well, welcome here! -warm smile- i love your little, "bear with me" comment as you were speaking to kbear. get it? -smile- so, you're from Singapore? is that in China? sorry, i'm not all that geographically smart whenever it comes to cities! -blush-

"I am new to the forum, so please bear with me.  I agree with kbear that we need both good and evil, light and dark.  My friends and I, here in Singapore believed that Hitler had ascended to heaven - because he had united the whole world/humanity against him.  So, on the same train of thought, Osama is an 'ascended master' - he had taught us all what we do not need in our life.
love
jackie"

yes, i also agree with you, kbear and others that light and dark are both necessary to have! without light, there would only be darkness. without darkness there would only be light. without having both, we wouldn't ever know what the difference was between the two! we wouldn't even know of an opposite side! we would be denied the opportunity to be able to choose, learn and somewhat even grow from having the two opposing sides! what if someone who was truly good really whole heartedly love someone who was truly evil? and suddenly, that evil one would be destroyed because evil would no longer be allowed to exist or vice versa? yes, i believe that even evil could know of love! if something or someone has a soul or even a small spark of God's light inside of them, then at least that spark would allow that individual to know of love, um, right? maybe by the good person truly loving that evil one would actually allow this dark one to grow more into the light more quickly or something. love within itself is good, as it can help others grow!

ok, now, i'm sure you've got the point! sorry about all of the babbling!

and, whether or not Hitler and Osama were evil or not, in a way they were great messengers of whatever they were trying to say. i don't know if they were ascended masters, but they in their own dark way did teach us something indeed! i don't really know what it or that may have been, but i'm sure that they had their own important teaching role for all of us.

hmmmm.......about them going to heaven......is there really a heaven or hell? or, does one just pass on and go to wherever they were taught that they would eventually go to after their death while they were once alive? who knows for sure anyway! i'm sure that this would in it's own way work like how the astral plane does. if one believes that they were evil and would go to hell, then they will go to a place probably within an environment that's like how they would perceive hell would be like! if the person felt that they were good and would go to heaven, then that's where that individual would go too. maybe heaven and hell really don't exist, and maybe they do! but most likely, one may just go to wherever they -ultimately believe- they will go to once they die. too bad we can never really just have solid answers to anything on this physical plane, and we always just have to keep guessing about everything! i guess the only way to know the true answers is to........look within ourself! -warm smile-

Blue Light blessings
from Blue Mystic

[Blue Light Mystic]

Hi Winged_Wolf! i like your opinions too! who honestly knows who's right or wrong? i'm sure that this sort of subject has no one answer and we are all right, as whatever that individual believes is right to them, and that person should be respected for whatever he/she believes! right? -smile-

now, good and evil could just be something that man has created from his own likes and dislikes and the things that he may or may not approve of as like you said. what is good to another person may be evil to another. i liked that statement to, as it is very true! there could be so many examples given here, but i'm sure many of you who are reading this could use your own imaginations yourselves! -smile-

and yes, things aren't just black, white and gray, they're all colors too! everything in some way does have its own beauty that is alive and living! if one were afraid of spiders, maybe they were taught and brought up to fear them from their parents! if one were to really observe one and handle them, they would see that there really isn't nothing to fear as their beauty and life would shine forth! yes, there is beauty in a spider! look how beautiful their colors can be and how artistically talented they are in building their intricately detailed webs are! there is beauty in all that lives in their own special ways! -smile-

and, since your named, Winged_Wolf, i can see why you decided to bring up the wolf bit! i've always loved wolves! they are beautiful and intelligent and even very loving and giving creatures! you can see love and expression in their eyes as well as other living creatures in our world! they probably were killing the livestock to have something to eat to survive! if there was nothing else for a human to eat but a cow and we would be placed in the wolves position, we'd do the exact same thing, just to survive! they were only doing what they had to to live!

how are wolves and other animals giving? remember the tale about a baby human boy that was abandoned in a forest and was taken in by a female wolf and she raised him? that's one example! another example of this is, well, Tarzan! he was raised by apes, or was it chimpanzees? i know that's fiction, and there aren't many examples out there, at least none that comes to my mind for now, but the point is, animals at times seem to be more loving than humans are! i could once again go on and on here, but i won't, because i feel that i've made my point now! -smile- however, as there are good people there are bad ones too, and the same thing applies to animals too i'm sure... -smile

"Hm, my view's a bit different--I don't think there is such a thing as good and evil--I think that we call something we like and approve of good, and something we don't like and disapprove of bad.  I don't think there are any universal concepts of good or evil--what is good to one person, may be evil to another, and so on.  We can't even agree among our own species, let alone other species.
Things just are as they are--all colors, not black or white.  To me, there's beauty in things as they are--harsh or kind, viscious or gentle--or all of those things in one, at different times.  Humans used to believe that wolves were evil, because they competed for prey and killed human livestock occasionally.  Now, we believe that they're beautiful, and we admire their family values! " Winged_Wolf's quotes

"All this talk about good and evil spirits....it seems to me exactly the same thing.  Spirits are like animals...as above, so below.  (We are animals, too....).  They are not good or bad--they are as they evolved to be, or were designed to be--they do what they do to survive.
There's beauty in a demon as in an angel.  You don't want it around you, perhaps, but nonetheless, it's a unique thing, another type of "life".  I think everyone should have some appreciation for that.  There's no use hating something for doing what it needs to do to survive--you stop it if it's hurting you or yours, but what use to assign the motive of malice to it?
Perhaps this view is too much for most people....I may be the odd one. " quoted by Winged_Wolf

oh dear Winged_Wolf! you are not alone in your kind of thinking! i agree with you too in what you've said! -warm smile- then that will have to make the two of us in "our" thinking! yes, spirits, demons, angels, wolves all have their own beauty. all of them can be both good, evil and even in between if they choose to be! each and every one of us out there have all of these given qualities within ourself! and no, one shouldn't have a spirit, entity, angel or even demon or wolf because of what it has to do to survive! as i've heard, hate could just make things worse! if anything, at the very least, one should respect and find the beauty within the being that makes that being up! and yes, if something's harming you or another, then that is when the individual should have to step in and say, "Stop!" but otherwise, yes, it really does absolutly no good at all to hate anything! unconditional love, acceptence and respect would be the best way to feel about anything in my opinion. -smile-



--Winged Wolf
[/quote]

Blue Light blessings
from Blue Mystic

[Blue Light Mystic]

Hi and welcome here as well Shimewaza. i really enjoy hearing all of these different perspectives and beliefs about good, evil, light, dark and the such. other's opinions and beliefs help me see other ways of thinking about what i feel that i already believe in and know. so, i thank you Shimewaza for your opinions too! -smile-

so, there is no good and evil and is only what our believe systems impose on our realities? i agree with this view in a way. maybe good and evil does just exist due to our own belief systems! maybe the two are just 'man made' beliefs! do animals believe in what's good or evil or right or wrong? no! they just go about doing whatever it is they have to in order to survive! and, furthermore, maybe what we consider to be good and evil light or dark or whatever are also due to what each seperate person not only believes is this way, but is also effected by what they like or dislike in the expression or act of doing something that they may agree or disagree on. right?

and, one must remember, that just because something looks good doesn't necessarily mean it is! such as the examples you gave on light and dark being used in the crusades Shimewaza. something could be portrayed as being good or of the light but really isn't once you see how it chooses to act out something and the reason's behind it's/their actions. well, if one were to put it in your way as you had described light and dark, (which indeed is a neat twist to it!) then one would be wrong in saying that light is good and dark is bad! things, beings, and people can deceptively portray or look like they are something that they really aren't! i guess that good, evil, light and or dark or even saying something is one of these given choices could not necessarily be what they may be 'labeled' as being, especially until one sees their choice of action in the two cases that you had described! -smile-

thanks again for sharing your thoughts! -and a warm smile to you too!-


"Thankyou for making that point Winged Wolf.

To all the people who have posted here having a nice little chat about 'good' and 'evil' - what you call good and evil is not automatically light and dark. You are fooling yourselves if you think that.

Why do you associate good with light and evil with dark? There is really no 'good' and no 'evil'...just what our own belief systems impose on our realities.

Back in the dark ages when all the religious crusades were marching around the place murdering at whim, they called themselves good and represented the 'light'...yet they were 'evil'? Or you could say the darkness is good, it helps the innocent hide from those that would do them harm...?

Just 2 basic examples off the top of my head...feel free to comment.

- Shimewaza." Shimewaza's quoted statements

Blue Light blessings
from Blue Mystic

[Blue Light Mystic]

Hi and welcome here to you too Adrian! -warm greeting smile-

i really liked your comment of saying that in order to base what we know we do this by gaining personal knowledge and experience we gain from our own true spiritual paths! that is another neat way of putting it! -smile- however, in Shimewaza's point of view, it also is true that good and evil could be just another belief that we all have as well as exist in other ways other than mere beliefs. i'm sure that both of these views are correct, but only up to a certain point. now, in the case of a demon vs. an angel. that's where i'd have to draw the line and say that this is where another kind of good and evil exists, outside of mankind's belief system! if the bible talks about them, then they must exist as well, um, right? -smile-

"A couple of comments - many of us here do not subscribe to packaged "belief systems", preferring to discover our own true spiritual paths and realities based upon personal learning, experience and knowledge rather than dogma.

Regarding good and evil specifically - how do your regard Angels vis a vis Demons, for example?

Best regards,

Adrian."

Blue Light blessings
from Blue Mystic

[Blue Light Mystic]

Hello again kind Inguma! -smile- yes, i also tend to feel that good does things in regards to others other than self, and evil does things for self disregarding others, especially for self gain, cruelty and superiority as you said.

hmmm, witch burning was for the good of the witch. all i can really see with that sort of act is a selfish act of fear, evil and murder. can issues like that really just be solved by killing the living person off? look what we do today with mass murderers! we murder them in electric chairs! that is just as wrong as what the murder was doing! right?! can there really be no other possible way to just resolve things other than just by killing others, mostly to protect ourselves? yes, i can definitly see why mass murderers get the electric chair, to rid the public of being victimized by the murderer, but, why isn't there another way, right? this is a selfish way to protect ourselves and our children from that person, but we're just as guilty as he is doing the murders by killing him and not finding another way to have him stop doing this, right? or, is there really and honestly no other way for this to be resolved?

yes, i tend to agree with you Inguma that light seems to be associated with things and people and the such as being good and dark seems to be things that are more on the mysterious, mishevious or bad side of things. but, as Shimewaza said in his comparison with the crusade battle with light and dark being opposite of what they were saying they originally were, maybe what is light is sometimes bad and what is dark is sometimes good. i feel that maybe it all depends on our own perspectives of what each of us feel and believe is right and wrong. the general masses do seem to think that murder, rape and sexual abuse and the such is bad, dark or evil. why? look at our law system and tell me that this isn't true! our law says that those things are bad or evil because many of us must 'believe' that these acts are! um, right? do you ever see the law punishing those who save a child from a burning house or does the law prosecute acts of heroism and goodness like how we saw our country come together more to support those who were in our recent terroism acts? no! oh yes, there is good, light, dark and evil and there are many acts we can see with our own eyes that we know deep down inside of ourselves as being right or wrong! do you feel good or bad in taking that last cookie off of the counter after you have eaten 11 and there being 12 cookies total for you and you brother that your mother had baked? maybe yes and maybe no! i know that i would, and i'd feel guilty too! this is where our mind's come into play! even our minds or our own consciousness tells us what to do and what not to do and what is right and what is wrong! if we can't at least have these feelings inside of us that tells us these kinds of things, then that person must be in a bit of trouble, right? -smile-

and yes Inguma, there must be a reason why angels choose light and demons choose dark. dark is void of light and light always clearly shines through dark no matter what! since angels are good, of course they'd choose the light, right? if demons are bad and like to hide especially from the light that can shine through them then of course they'd choose the dark! -smile- it kind of makes sense to me!

hmmm, i'm glad you've never met a demon too! -smile, and a small chuckle too!- i also don't agree with evil acts like possession and the such that demons, negs and even people would choose to do and would also act against whatever they'd try doing to me the best way i could too. and yes, maybe they are so bad that they have to do these things to survive too. that's probably the kind of bad energy they need in order to continue to stay black souled and not have their sparks of light inside of the core of their being grow. maybe they have to remain this way until they choose on their own to either want to grow to be more good or, change will happen to them just like it does to us whether we want it to or not! i mean, could a demon, neg or person really never change or grow? i'd go insane if i couldn't! change and growth is what makes things happen! -smile-

it's such a shame that we can't really seem to just get along with all kinds or opposing forces! i guess in case of both sides that would be asking too much! as this would be like God asking Satan to make peace with him! -now, that's a laugh on that comment- but, what if two people or beings or whatever were to be attracted to one another and both would actually love each other? what would this do or cause to have happen? would this not somehow benefit both, or would this just do nothing for both? now, those really are questions! -smile- i say at the very least, maybe we should at least not hate either good or evil and just except both as they are. hating and maybe even in the case of loving evil won't do a darn thing. we should just except what is and maybe not dwell on either side!

sorry, i'm kind of stuck on not choosing a side to be on! i don't see why one has to really choose a side. i tend to be neutral and only choose at my decision to sway on both sides to do whatever i want to choose to do! of course, i don't sway too much on the good, light, dark or bad though. i'm too wise to do something like that......
-smile-

"This is just a quick thought, I may be off point in places but I am trying to establish what makes something "evil":

I think, that good respects other peoples boundaries and perceptions of good/bad, whereas evil works solely for the self and does what it wants, often simply to cause suffering (cruelty, say for superiority).
Ultimately, there may be no good or evil, but in the physical world, IMO these things do exist. It could be said to be simply a matter of perspective, but part of the mystic path is to release yourself from the boundaries of "I" (subjective) and look at situations from a completely objective point of view. From this vantage only other people's belief systems become important (not your own), because they are what define those peoples realities. If someone does something which they believe is right to another, but that person does not want done, this can cause serious "discomfort" (assuming both those people are equals, eg not father/son situation where it may actually be for the good of the son). The person who believes themselves to be in the right is still acting in a wrong, even evil, way because they are disregarding the others rights to decide what is thrust into their reality (eg witch burning, they believed it was for the good of the witch, but it was still murder of the most vile kind)

As for the good/bad = light/dark situation, I am still trying to figure this out. I think, that both the light and dark can be acting as evil, but dark is more likely to. Although dark can be good (absorbing), just as too much light can be a bad thing. Experientially, negs always seem to work with the dark and angels light, so there must be a reason.
 
Winged Wolf: Yes I respect demons (though I have never met one, thank God!), I can even love some aspects of them for helping create the world we live in. But I would always fight against them, because I believe their motives are not for the best. Eg demonic possession where that "person" is then seen murdering their whole family (RB interview) - you cannot argue that this is pure evil for its own sake. On a lower level, negs which psychologically condition children and babies with corruption, OK they may be doing it to survive, also that person may grow older and because of ridding themselves of the influence grow stronger, but I cannot accept or agree with their mode of operation. I would always fight against it." Quotes by Inguma

Blue Light blessings
from Blue Mystic

[LadyLea]

I love the various opinions in this thread.  My viewpoint is a mixture of things.  Maybe everyone does not agree with each view of "good" and "evil" but some insightful observations were discussed.  I agree with Winged Wolf: just because something wears black or looks evil does not make it so and the same thing can be said about good.

If your focus your life on hate, anger, and regret, it is only your fault for what you get.

[Shimewaza]

Adrian said:

"Regarding good and evil specifically - how do your regard Angels vis a vis Demons, for example?"

I haven't had too much experience with so called 'angels' and 'demons' myself so can only theorise on this at the moment...

I regard both as not existing how Robert Bruce sees it..I don't think there is any hierachy to it, or order or things, with different grades of angel or demon...when I say this I mean no natural order, if there is an order to it it has come about due to the human belief systems and nothing else.

I think there are beings you perceive as demons and angels, but again I think it is more to do with your belief systems than anything else...ie. a religious person out of body might see an angel, another projecter nearby might see something else entirely.

It could also be the case the entity chooses to manifest as either an angel or a demon to conform more to someones belief system and so interact with that person in a better way.

What could be a better way to control religious people out of body than to appear as an angel and start telling them things they want to hear..?

Whichever way is the true way, I would warn it is best to always take things with a grain of salt as it were. Never assume anything. I'll be able to talk more about this subject as I get more information myself.


To blue light mystic: You are posting an enourmous amount of information replying to everyone, and I just get too tired reading though it all, sorry... Reading through all your posts just puts me off and I skip over most parts of them.

- Shimewaza.

[Adrian]

Greetings Shimewaza!

As you say, ultimately the only way is to find these things out for yourself and arrive at your own conclusions.

But I would not be so quick to put the existence and ranking of these powerful beings down to "religions", when many of us do not follow a packaged belief system, only that which is a direct result of our own knowledge and experience.

Additionally, if you became familiar with the principles and teachings of the sacred text the "Kabbalah", you would gain alot more insight into these areas.

Best regards,

Adrian.

[Blue Light Mystic]

Greetings again Robert Bruce, moderators and others on the forum. i love the site's new look! what a very wonderful and well done job in choosing the cool looking and calming color combination choices for the site! i also love all of the different options and links and folders we can no go on on the forum instead of it all just being a bit bunched up like on the other one was. winkle twinkle

well, to start out one of my first posts, i'd love to share with all of you an astral sight experience that i had had sometime this morning as i was beginning to wake up. i saw something that i feel may be a tad bit important for some of us on this forum to know, as well as to others in general. it's about light and darkness. we can not have one without the other as i've heard many others during my life say and have been told by others in person too.

so, what did i see as i was coming back into the waking state? i saw nothing but darkness, the darkness that is very cold and void of light that each and every one of us can see whenever we close out eyes to try to fall asleep.

as i was lying there in my bed this morning, i began to see something very distinct and clear that was suddenly beginning to come into my
astral sight's focus that still surprises me to this very second! i saw a very large and empty cave like place and quickly soon after seeing inside of this large and empty spaced cave and even more surprisingly, what looked like two cave men but they didn't totally look human but were in the main form of one. they had the basic human features such as eyes, ears, hair on their head, nose, arms and legs and so on, but they still kind of looked a little like something else as well. it's a bit difficult to describe on here in mere words but is the best i can do here. what i then had noticed was there were two of the cave men beings who were walking in the darkness of the cave towards the area of the cave that i was at and was lying there viewing. i don't believe that i was really astral projecting or
anything, but do feel that i was just 'viewing' the cave like area as well as the two cave men like beings. they kept walking towards me until they for whatever reason decided to stop, stand and stare down at me with a slightly angry expression within 5 feet of where i was viewing the inside of the dark cave at. maybe they had this angry expression because this was their cave, they were territorial and i
had just showed up there inside of their cave and had upset them.
at the time i was seeing them standing there scowling at me, i wasn't thinking about being there to upset them and just continued to stare right back at them in wonder. i believe that the two of them and i were just staring at one another but didn't necessarily feel threatened by each other's presence and feel that we were all
just curious about looking at each other too. as they were standing there staring down at me, i also had quickly noticed that they were wearing fur like clothing and weren't as hairy as many of us would think a cave man would have looked at one time whenever they were alive. they did have brown hair on their heads and was cut rather short but their faces kind of had a slight non-human look to them.

after a short while as i was curiously staring at them and they were
staring at me, the one who was standing in the front of the other had one very noticeable object that was sitting directly on the middle of his forehead that looked like some kind of large white circle that
glowed very beautifully and brightly in the darkness of the cave. it seemed to behave as though it were some kind of flashlight that the one cave man person was wearing directly on his forehead. maybe this really wasn't a flashlight or object as i had first thought it was was really just there on him to allow me to offer others an important message instead.

now, what could the message be in what i've seen this morning just by
seeing a dark empty cave full of darkness and nothing inside except for two built and tough looking cave men like people? here is the main message i feel that what i was suppose to get from seeing all of that.

darkness is cold, empty and full of nothingness and the light, no matter how small it may be that's within much darkness will always shine through as beautifully as can be.

as for light, it's something more, it can help us see through the
darkness and shows all of us that it's there to help us find our way through our darkest times we are having in our life and it can be there to help us as well if we are willing to embrace and except it.

now, i won't put darkness out of view completely. i've seen darkness
in many many of it's monsterous and even sometimes hideously demonic looking forms including it's one true form over many years now. one must realize though, that it's good to not completely reject or hate
-either- the light or the dark as both are -equally- just as important to have and even know as the other. both sides exist within all of us and is one of the reasons why we should not hate either one as well. in order to fully be able to understand the light one must explore it. in order to understand the dark, one must explore it as well, but in doing this, it wouldn't necessarily be wise to explore the dark too much, as it can lead one to great confusion, it can get one lost and it can even lead one astray, astray from the light and even one's own purpose or path. darkness can be beautiful and even for
awhile, but it can't hold it's beautiful form forever, as it must soon return to it's more true form, which is dark. one should not hate the dark though, and dark should not hate the light. we should learn to at least accept both, as both need one another to exist.

everything that i've now said here is what i know and believe about
light and dark and are just my own personal opinions and feelings on the matter. i'd love to hear how others on the forum as well as others who don't normally post on this forum feel about the two opposing sides. what do you feel you know about the two opposing forces? do you also agree that we should have both and that both need one another to continue to exist? i wonder why both sides can't just find a way to at least respect and accept one another. why must they always have a need to oppose each other and create battles with one another? is there not any way we can find a way to just get along peacefully?

Blue Light blessings
from Blue Mystic

Edited by - Blue Light Mystic on 20 February 2002  07:25:36