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Author Topic: BBC: Near-death experiences are 'electrical surge in dying brain'  (Read 3297 times)
Kirkland
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« on: August 13, 2013, 14:55:42 »

What do you guys think of this theory? It seems a bit more plausible than some of the theories I have heard from scentists.

Quote
A surge of electrical activity in the brain could be responsible for the vivid experiences described by near-death survivors, scientists report.
A study carried out on dying rats found high levels of brainwaves at the point of the animals' demise.
US researchers said that in humans this could give rise to a heightened state of consciousness.
The research is published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The lead author of the study, Dr Jimo Borjigin, of the University of Michigan, said: "A lot of people thought that the brain after clinical death was inactive or hypoactive, with less activity than the waking state, and we show that is definitely not the case.
"If anything, it is much more active during the dying process than even the waking state."
Consciousness
From bright white lights to out-of-body sensations and feelings of life flashing before their eyes, the experiences reported by people who have come close to death but survived are common the world over.
However, studying this in humans is a challenge, and these visions are little understood.
To find out more, scientists at the University of Michigan monitored nine rats as they were dying.
In the 30-second period after the animal's hearts stopped beating, they measured a sharp increase in high-frequency brainwaves called gamma oscillations.
These pulses are one of the neuronal features that are thought to underpin consciousness in humans, especially when they help to "link" information from different parts of the brain.
In the rats, these electrical pulses were found at even higher levels just after the cardiac arrest than when animals were awake and well.
Dr Borjigin said it was feasible that the same thing would happen in the human brain, and that an elevated level of brain activity and consciousness could give rise to near-death visions.
"This can give us a framework to begin to explain these. The fact they see light perhaps indicates the visual cortex in the brain is highly activated - and we have evidence to suggest this might be the case, because we have seen increased gamma in area of the brain that is right on top of the visual cortex," she said.
"We have seen increased coupling between the lower-frequency waves and the gamma that has been shown to be a feature of visual awareness and visual sensation."
However, she said that to confirm the findings a study would have to be carried out on humans who have experienced clinical death and have been revived.
Commenting on the research, Dr Jason Braithwaite, of the University of Birmingham, said the phenomenon appeared to be the brain's "last hurrah".
"This is a very neat demonstration of an idea that's been around for a long time: that under certain unfamiliar and confusing circumstances - like near-death - the brain becomes overstimulated and hyperexcited," he said.
Striking
"Like 'fire raging through the brain', activity can surge through brain areas involved in conscious experience, furnishing all resultant perceptions with realer-than-real feelings and emotions."
But he added: "One limitation is that we do not know when, in time, the near-death experience really occurs. Perhaps it was before patients had anaesthesia, or at some safe point during an operation long before cardiac arrest.
"However, for those instances where experiences may occur around the time of cardiac arrest - or beyond it - these new findings provide further meat to the bones of the idea that the brain drives these fascinating and striking experiences"
Dr Chris Chambers, of Cardiff University, said: "This is an interesting and well-conducted piece of research. We know precious little about brain activity during death, let alone conscious brain activity. These findings open the door to further studies in humans.
"[But] we should be extremely cautious before drawing any conclusions about human near-death experiences: it is one thing to measure brain activity in rats during cardiac arrest, and quite another to relate that to human experience."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23672150?print=true
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Lionheart
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 21:32:51 »

 I heard that last night on Coast to Coast AM as well.

 I feel these are Scientists that have never looked at it from any other direction, then everything being Brain related.

 Because of this, they will never really be able to see the truth, until possible one of them (like has happened in the past) undergoes a NDE or Traumatic experience themselves. I don't know why it's so hard for these guys to just try to induce an OBE themselves. There's enough books on he subject to help them do it. They don't even have to make it public. They could just try it and see what they see.

 Put the machines down and use their "God" given talent. Oh this last statement would cause them problems as well, lol.  rolleyes
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 21:32:51 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Astralzombie
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 23:20:59 »

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"[But] we should be extremely cautious before drawing any conclusions about human near-death experiences: it is one thing to measure brain activity in rats during cardiac arrest, and quite another to relate that to human experience."

*DDDDDDUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE by itself totally negates any feasibility from this study if there was even a scrap of it to begin with IMO.

I do thank you for the article as it is showing how desperate science is trying to dispel this phenomenon.
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Sin
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2013, 04:49:39 »

These guys never give up. My dad had an NDE during a cardiac episode. He saw the emergency personnel working on him during the time he was "out" and when he "came back" he was able to describe the scene and the people with great accuracy. And no, he had never seen any of them before.

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Bedeekin
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2013, 07:37:44 »

Ugh  rolleyes

So there is a 'Bzzzzzt' in the meat brain just before we croak. This says nothing about NDEs. It's just a recording taken of the meat before it starts decomposing.

Anthony Peak seems to like it because it may be a DMT surge type thing. May be.




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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2013, 07:37:44 »



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CFTraveler
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2013, 22:35:02 »

I've known for a little bit of time now (thanks to someone in the CTF forums) that the brain 'turns itself on' right before it dies.  It makes sense because the act of living and perception (that is, getting signals from 'outside') actually attenuates braincells- that is, you have to turn off parts of the brain to experience outward stimulus.  So right before death, there is a surge of it all before it goes down for the count.
But if you think about it, what can be the physical reason (from a physical survival point of view) for this?  It certainly does nothing to a species to have a surge before death- unless there is a reason for it.
It has been noted and pretty much established that most people have a life review before death- but what can this possibly do for us if we are only meat robots? 
Now, if you consider that the brain stays 'on for a certain time' as it dies, it would make sense to me, in the context of having a part of us (consciousness?) move on to a different type of existence, and for that you would need some sort of transitional help- such as converting your memories into some other sort of information to 'take' 'somewhere else'- to deal better with the dramatic change to a nonphysical existence, if such things as the stuff that us projectors see when we 'visit' the 'dear passed ones' are actually factual.

So really, to say that what we see before death is explained by the normal brain processes involved in dying doesn't really explain away all the other things (such as what Bedeekin reported) that happen during the process, but IMO support the idea that a transition to a nonphysical existence is something most of us go through, if not all, including animals-if this happens for a reason.
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Projector4life
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2013, 03:03:47 »

So right before death, there is a surge of it all before it goes down for the count.
But if you think about it, what can be the physical reason (from a physical survival point of view) for this?  It certainly does nothing to a species to have a surge before death- unless there is a reason for it.
It has been noted and pretty much established that most people have a life review before death- but what can this possibly do for us if we are only meat robots? 

I think this pretty much sums up what I was thinking too.
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Astralzombie
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2013, 08:32:09 »

CFT has brought up a very good point. Just because science thinks they can explain something, they think this automatically removes the spirituality or "God" factor out of the life equation. To me, science should be defined as the study of "God's" work.

If this so called "surge" is indeed true, however, I don't agree that it serves as the mechanism for the life review. The unfortunate people who have found them selves to close to an explosion that vaporizes them in a single instance, for example, would probably not have the time for this "surge". Unless I have underestimated the amount of time needed for this to occur.

However, this stems more from the theory that our brain serves as a veil from the NPR and as a regulator for the physical body. This is why I believe that hallucinogens and people with Alzheimer are actually dealing with two realities simultaneously that are objectively real. Only the people that are on hallucinogens, sometimes have the benefit of knowing that their experience is not objectively "real" and can thus cope while under the effects.
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2013, 17:59:36 »

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If this so called "surge" is indeed true, however, I don't agree that it serves as the mechanism for the life review. The unfortunate people who have found them selves to close to an explosion that vaporizes them in a single instance, for example, would probably not have the time for this "surge". Unless I have underestimated the amount of time needed for this to occur.
You should read (or about) Anthony Peake's theories, YAD knows them well *waves* of course, it's a theory amongst many others-
Basically part of his theory is that the surge brings you to a state of no-time.  And an explosion takes 'some' time.  But of course it's just a theory.  Or hypothesis.
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Astralzombie
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2013, 18:09:47 »

You should read (or about) Anthony Peake's theories, YAD knows them well *waves* of course, it's a theory amongst many others-
Basically part of his theory is that the surge brings you to a state of no-time.  And an explosion takes 'some' time.  But of course it's just a theory.  Or hypothesis.

I guess if everything that has been, is now, and will be can all exist in a single moment, then an explosion has nothing on it in regards to time. grin

Thanks for the reference. I will read into his theory. smiley
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dotster
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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2013, 06:55:33 »

*DDDDDDUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Dr. Eben Alexander's NDE by itself totally negates any feasibility from this study if there was even a scrap of it to begin with IMO.

I do thank you for the article as it is showing how desperate science is trying to dispel this phenomenon.

Negates feasibility? I hardly think the recounting of a man's personal inner experience negates the research done by the group that worked on this study.

I think perhaps a lot of people are reading into this way too much. It sounds as if everyone here looks at science and therefore scientists as evil soul capturing illuminati reptilians or some other similar awesome mash-up of wickedness. Scientists are just looking for answers, just like everyone here. Not a single place in that entire article does it give any kind of indication that they are trying to disprove NDE's and the like; in fact the very first paragraph of the article about it (here: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130812153553.htm) reads: " The "near-death experience" reported by cardiac arrest survivors worldwide may be grounded in science, according to research at the University of Michigan Health System."

The simple fact of this entire ordeal is that there has now been measured a significant surge of stimulation in the brain after cardiac arrest. Period point blank. What does that say about consciousness? Absolutely nothing. Why? Because as much as we like to think we are an all knowing super advanced civilization, consciousness is still an unknown variable in science. It does exist as a variable though, and through different theories we can see how it could relate to other variables in a sense. In this way we can experiment with the known variables to help find the unknown but still to this day it itself remains elusive and hence undefined. These scientists are only trying to gap that bridge between the material world and consciousness, they're just trying to solve for X, if you will. Technically we do the same here. Most people here are of the mind that consciousness is non-local anyways, so we could appreciate this interesting little tidbit of geeky neurobiology but consciousness only uses the brain, it doesn't exist IN the brain. All this shows us is how consciousness withdrawals it's tendrils as the body ceases to function.

One step closer to solving X in my opinion, so good on them. Not all scientists are as close-minded as most think; they're still human ultimately.
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2013, 16:21:15 »

Most people here are of the mind that consciousness is non-local anyways, so we could appreciate this interesting little tidbit of geeky neurobiology but consciousness only uses the brain, it doesn't exist IN the brain. All this shows us is how consciousness withdrawals it's tendrils as the body ceases to function.
excellent point! that's the way it is. if you're using a computer (even if you're starting to 'melt' with it via bio-tech-interfaces in a transhumanism fashion) it is still you as user and the computer being two different pairs of shoes entirely, the scientists look from a material perspective at how the computer works, that's all
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Astralzombie
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2013, 16:41:29 »

This group is suggesting that this surge is responsible for the NDE. Dr. Alexander had zero brain function for about a week according to the monitors and his Doctors.

No one knows when the NDE occurs but if you believe the person who had the experience, they can sometimes relate the events going on around them at the time. Most don't stick around the hospital though when there is a whole universe to explore.

It's just not possible to explain our philosophy of life on every post so it is possible to come away with the idea that most people here just don't trust science. You would, of course, be wrong if you did.

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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2013, 18:02:32 »

This group is suggesting that this surge is responsible for the NDE. Dr. Alexander had zero brain function for about a week according to the monitors and his Doctors.

No one knows when the NDE occurs but if you believe the person who had the experience, they can sometimes relate the events going on around them at the time. Most don't stick around the hospital though when there is a whole universe to explore.

It's just not possible to explain our philosophy of life on every post so it is possible to come away with the idea that most people here just don't trust science. You would, of course, be wrong if you did.
Thanks for saying what I wanted to in a better, more articulate way, and with more facts- and in less words.
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Lionheart
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2013, 21:01:28 »

It's just not possible to explain our philosophy of life on every post so it is possible to come away with the idea that most people here just don't trust science. You would, of course, be wrong if you did.
...and the Five Star quote of the day goes to (drum roll, please) Astralzombie! *****
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