Consciousness without brain activity

[catmeow]

Dr Bruce Greyson speaking about how the brain does not equal the mind. References NDEs. I'm amazed how he can talk in such length and detail without notes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_qBIw7qyHU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[dreamingod]

~

Walter Russell's book: The Secret Of Light


Chapter 10 - Function Of The Brain

Electric awareness of observed effects of matter in motion is registered in the brain.
It is commonly believed that the brain thinks and knows.
The brain does not think, nor does it know. It is but a storehouse of recorded sensations.
The brain "remembers" these records for man's usage as he needs them,
and for fulfilling the requirements of his body.
The brain is a complex state of motion expressed by waves of light pulsing in cycles.
States of motion cannot KNOW anything, nor can they THINK anything. .
The brain is part of a machine, a human machine.
Machines can express thoughts which are electrically
projected through them, but machines are incapable of
thinking the thoughts thus projected.
Likewise machines can express knowledge but they cannot have knowledge.
Likewise machines can do marvelous things when patterned
and controlled by knowledge, but they cannot KNOW what they do.

The centering conscious Mind of man's Soul-will alone thinks
by projecting desire for creative expression through the brain machine.
Desire in Mind is electrically expressed. Electricity is
the motivative force which projects the One Light of
Mind two ways to create cycles of light waves for the
purpose of expressing thought cycles.
Desire is not in the brain. It is in the centering conscious self.
Desire is the cause of all motion.

THE BRAIN RECORDS SENSATIONS
The brain is but the electric recording mechanism of
conscious Mind thinking. It is also man's storage warehouse
of electric records of memories and thoughts since his beginning.
It is the servant of Universal Intelligence. It operates
all mechanisms of the body. It acts as the central switchboard
for all its instinctive voluntary and involuntary actions.
The brain is the seat of sensation. Its purpose in this
respect is to keep the body electrically informed of the
condition of the body, through electrical messages.
Such messages are not mental. They are purely electrical.
They produce sensation. The brain senses and
records every message. It sends counteracting messages
to other parts of the body.

The body is a vast and complex mechanism. The brain
is an electrical recorder, distributor, broadcaster and
receiver for all operational parts of that multi-celled
machine, but its actions have no relation to intelligence.
The brain records sensations of experiences and observations
which the senses convey to it. Such sensations
are mistaken for thinking and knowing. Sensation arising
from electrical motion is purely automatic.
The mistake in assuming that the brain thinks and
knows is due to the fact that man believes himself to be
thinking when he is only sensing. Man also believes that
he is acquiring knowledge through sensed observation
of sensed EFFECT, when he is but recording electrical
sensations which inform him as to the nature of things
observed by his senses.
The body is a patterned machine designed to do many
things. Electric motivation through nerve wires determines
each movement.
When such sensations act in unison with his conscious
awareness of the Light which centers him as PERSON,
he is then thinking as well as sensing.
The centering consciousness of man, the PERSON,
transforms information received by the senses into
knowledge to the extent of which he is capable of recognizing
CAUSE in spirit, back of the EFFECT which his senses record.
Until that transformation takes place, man is without
knowledge no matter to what extent his senses may have
informed him, for information is not knowledge.
A man may be a veritable encyclopedia of information.
He may have earned many college degrees for
being well informed and yet be without sufficient
knowledge to create anything.
For instance, we cannot sense the idea of a harp while
it is still, but we can know the idea of the harp. We can
know its various possibilities of expression, even though
its strings are not vibrating. Likewise we can imagine
countless complexities of rhythms which lie unexpressed
within those still strings.
Conversely, we cannot know the vibrations which
come from those strings when we set them in motion.
We can but sense those vibrations through our own
sensed electrical awareness.


Near Death Experiences. Consciousness survives and continues after death:
http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2564.msg4299#msg4299

Example:

A well documented case involving a woman, Pam Reynolds had an operation called "standstill"
to remove an artery aneurysm in her brain.
The total surgery lasted about 7 hours and the standstill took less than 1 hour.
She was clinically dead because she had no brain activity, but after revival was
later able to accurately describe her 'out of body' observations of the operation.
This is validated as being quite accurate.


~

[catmeow]

The brain is a complex state of motion expressed by waves of light pulsing in cycles.
States of motion cannot KNOW anything, nor can they THINK anything

This is correct. The brain is a machine, and there is no known mechanism by which a machine can think, know or understand. Advocates of "Strong Artificial Intelligence" would disagree. They believe that a machine, once it becomes "sufficiently complex", magically becomes "self aware". They do not suggest any mechanism by which this self awareness appears, nor do they specify the level of "complexity" required for self awareness to appear. They do not supply any evidence for their beliefs. There are no known examples of machines becoming even slightly self aware. There isn't even the slightest hint of a reason to assume that "complexity" causes self awareness. In short, their position is a triumph of wishful thinking over reason. It is utterly absurd. It is unfounded and baseless. Science at its best.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
To add a point.
Galaxies must be really clever as they are a mass of complexities some which the scientists still don't (refuse to) understand as they know EVERYTHING dont they.
Applies to most but not all.

[Bordmb]

I personally prefer the idea that the body, including the brain is a physical manifestation, whereas we, or our minds, are points of consciousness. Thank you for the great resource though, it's thought provoking at the least.

[catmeow]

Hi,
To add a point.
Galaxies must be really clever as they are a mass of complexities some which the scientists still don't (refuse to) understand as they know EVERYTHING dont they.
Applies to most but not all.

It's a good point. And exactly where is the boundary of this self awareness? Is it the whole galaxy? Or is it the large gas clouds in the galaxy? Or is it the individual stars in the galaxy? How do we confine this self awareness and contain it? What are the rules?

A couple of years ago I discovered there was a mathematical physicist who was asking this type of question and generally talking a huge amount of sense about AI and consciousness research. His name is Sir Roger Penrose, Emeritus Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University, and author of several books on human consciousness.

He argues strongly against AI in his book "The Emperor's New Mind". It's a difficult read, but absolutely packed with information. The title says it all - there is a fundamental "elephant in the room" when it comes to consciousness research and AI, which establishment scientists are ignoring. And that is that the "known laws of physics are inadequate to explain the phenomenon of consciousness":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Penrose

Good guy.

[zareste]

the interstellar scientific community uses a layer model to explain physics, and they say consciousness has its own layer. So, for instance, there's a layer that manages the form of matter, a layer that manages the speed of matter, and somewhere in there is a layer that manages awareness. Apparently our thoughts begin on this layer and control the body through resonance interaction with other layers.

The brain is just there to coordinate actions and relay information. There are plenty of life forms that think and function without one. Worms have no brain. Fungus was shown to have intelligent properties (it can navigate a maze) while lacking a brain. And we've seen cases where people have had their brain half-removed or deteriorated to practically nothing yet their thinking ability remained the same.

People just looked in a human head one day, saw a wrinkly organ in there, and decided this thing must do all the thinking.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
It also applies to quantum physics. Particles joined can be millions of lightyears apart but if you change the dpin of one the other immediately changes it spin in the opposite direction. Unexplained equilibrium.
Another is the double slit (hole) experiment. Your viewing it changes the wave function to particle effects eben if you view the effect after the waves have left the slit but before they hit the target screen. Time dilation again unexplained.
It doesn't add up but they still try to brush it under the carpet. It means they need to look at their postulates. Walter Russell had it sorted in his mind, maybe understanding his words would shine a light on it. The electron is NOT understood and until it is the stalemate continues.
Leptons, ha, who needs 'em...

[Xanth]

The known laws of physics are inadequate to explain just about anything of spiritual consequence.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Agreed, they talk of branes (separate universes) but refuse to talk on spiritual matters.
"Its got para as a prefix, no no no cant talk about that, heard this guy, he wants us to talk about para something.... "
 Then its followed by the most false guffaws you've ever heard.
Dont you just love 'em.