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Author Topic: Suspicion behind Berg beheading.  (Read 4001 times)
kiauma
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« on: May 20, 2004, 15:25:53 »

Conspiracy theories abound on everything around 9/11, and I'm not surprised to see this pop up.  I'm not saying there is no basis to wonder or that Bush and his gang aren't a bunch of immoral thugs - but at the same time far more intelligence and cunning has been accredited to the administration than could even come close to being credible.

People can find inconsistencies and rationalize motives and connections from now till doomsday - that's what the human brain does best - but you have to step back and look critically at the whole idea.  Perhaps Bush or his administration are smart enough to pull off 9/11, but their handling of it and subsequent actions will ultimately result in the fall of the administration, and the loss of the credibility of America as a nation in the international community.  

Such is the same here.  Did 'the administration' pull this off as an elaborate hoax to try to draw sympathies to the American cause?  Putting it into a world perspective, I find this laughable, because a dozen such beheadings would not give America one inch of sympathy.  Instead it is seen by the world at large as the atrocious result of a wronged and outraged country, carried out by a desperate and disenfanchised fringe group.

It is seen by the world at large as regrettable, but something America brought onto itself.

Perhaps the Bush administration is smart enough and capable enough of pulling off all the 'conspiracies' that have been flooding the net (though I heartily doubt it), but the funny thing is that the entire chain of events has only portrayed them as a bunch of bumbling thugs.

I ask you, if they really were the masters of manipulation that the conspiracy theorists try to portray them as, would this be the case?

Mark my words, there will indeed be a regime change in the upcoming election.  I only hope we can recover from their half-witted ineptitude sometime in my lifetime.
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2004, 15:34:22 »

Well, if it is a conspiracy on behalf of the US govt it's not directed toward other nations to increase their sympathy for the US cause in Iraq and/or Afganistan.
It's more likely the goal is to sway the domestic opinion about the justification of continued presence in said countries, especially after the prisoner abuse issue a hot topic. The thinking behind a alleged hoax would probably be to show what savage beasts these Iraqis are and thus seek understanding toward the 'necessity' of treating the prisoners in such a manner as they have been treated according to the images and recent court martials.

2cents & L&L
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2004, 15:34:22 »

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kiauma
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2004, 15:37:50 »

Domestically, it has been seen as justification for the whole Iraq campain being a big mistake.

...and Bush's approval rating just keeps dropping, day by day...
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holy reality
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2004, 20:16:19 »

quote:
Originally posted by jilola

Well, if it is a conspiracy on behalf of the US govt it's not directed toward other nations to increase their sympathy for the US cause in Iraq and/or Afganistan.
It's more likely the goal is to sway the domestic opinion about the justification of continued presence in said countries, especially after the prisoner abuse issue a hot topic. The thinking behind a alleged hoax would probably be to show what savage beasts these Iraqis are and thus seek understanding toward the 'necessity' of treating the prisoners in such a manner as they have been treated according to the images and recent court martials.

2cents & L&L
jouni




exactly...I have heard (hearsay....) that Rush Limbaugh supported our torture of Iraqis based upon seeing that video.

The world isn't stupid, America largely is, this propoganda (it is propoganda, but it may be "true") for us, to keep us at bay, to make us a bit more favorable of the government.... I mean, the general reaction of these photos is something akin to "those camel f*ckers, let's nuke them all! they deserved to get tortured"

And as I think the thing I posted pointed out, this happened right before Bush had to make his "tough" decision of whether or not to release more photos... now on the one hand, I want to see them all, I want to know how far this goes, but on the other I understand it'd make the world hate us that much more.

But on the positive spectrum it could mean people really get mad and REALLY want to change things.

So.... at any rate, Berg does look dead when they take his head off, I watched it, I just can't forsee how unless you were drugged out of your mind, dead, or unconscious, how you could hold that still while that is happening to you.. it goes against all animal instinct.

Now what we do know is that the government lied about detaining Berg, his parents have an email from them confiriming that he was in detention......

also correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they lie about that al qaeda leader being the one to commit the execution (this seems obvious since he's wearing a gold ring though...) ? I can't remember what his name is so I'm having a hard time looking it up.. Al Z something.....?

We also know Rumsfield lied about not advocating these torture things, recent reports highlight "highly secretive" Pentagon operations that encouraged this sexual assault/humiliation stuff.... I'm not sure if that means Rummy himself actually knew about it, but you think he would.

This stuff has been going on since day one, suppressing the 9/11 panels findings, delaying the investigation for years, gagging FBI translator Sibel Ednmonds (i wish she'd just release the documents.... they prove the government lies, or so she claims)..... not having to be under oath while testifying to the comittee, not letting us know what he said to the comittee.

I mean, this is stuff you'd expect in a borderine dictatorship, and the people seem to legitimately not care.
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kiauma
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2004, 20:57:02 »

As I thought I clearly implied, I have no doubt that Rummy knew full well about the situation in Abu Ghraib, if he didn't order it himself.  He strikes me full well as having no moral or ethical compunctions against such tactics.  Having claimed the moral high ground for America, it is a fine piece of political hypocrisy, reflective of the entire administration from the start.

As to America, in any capacity, actually being behind Berg's beheading, I will leave you to your own conclusion.  You already have mine, and my reasoning.

Also, we must hang out with a completely different crowd.  The only people I know of who genuinely reflect the "those camel f*ckers" attitude are the Bush administration themselves, and a few internet malcontents.
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2004, 20:57:02 »



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holy reality
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2004, 02:21:25 »

I live in Oklahoma, there are a lot of bible thumping rednecks out here.

My mom used to fly a damn flag on her SUV... though now she has an even bigger less fuel efficient SUV, minus the flag.

When 9/11 hit, I was fairly young, stupid (or ignorant more correctly) and impressionable... I was more than happy with genocide, I wanted us to nuke them.

What's sad is so did my parents grown adults, who don't have much execuse for such ignorance.

I mean, we are no different than the terrorists, we think we have some sort of superiority, but we don't.

If you put us out there in those horrible third world situations, left us to believe our countries propoganda, you'd better believe we'd hate America.

I mean, imagine your family gets blown up, and you don't know why, and some respected religious figure tells you it's the US's fault, they are a bunch of ignorant redneck christians (they certainly are! listen to Bush's speeches about God and the war) and they are launching a holy war on us.

You'd want to fight back, to save yourself, to save other people's families, to keep your religion safe... you'd definitely want to fight back.

We are not fundamentally different, we are crying for blood just as much as they are......

Nationalism is a DISEASE

unless you were in a dictatorship and fled to this country on your own, there is no reason to be pround to be an American... YOU DIDN'T DO A DAMN THING TO BE BORN HERE... you know? What's the deal? OOOH yay I was randomly born here, that means I'm better than everyone else!

Well guess what, that's how everyone, everywhere, in every country feels.

We aren't special. We aren't the land of the free (being undisputedly the most backwards western nation in existence).... you know.... there are facets of this country that are great, that are worth being proud of, but right now, we don't stand for any of those things.

So it's like.... if you rally up and want us to bomb so and so and such and such and you endorse concentration camps and whatnot... you're just as bad as the terrorists, if not worse, since you have little excuse for such ignorance having access to.. a degree... independant media... I mean, if you don't have the internet you're kind of screwed and have to watch various propogandic crap (FOX News).. but I mean... we aren't nearly as brainwashed as some other third world countries where "evil" terrorists live.

We are a threat to them, they are defending themselves from us... end of story... likewise, they are a threat ot us, we are defending ourselves from them.

Neither of us are good, both of us are evil... the way I see it.

I'd rather live here than in the middle east though obviously, I do value what little freedoms we still have that haven't been negated inteh war on terror, or drugs, or by various religious authorities that have gotten into power and held a stranglehold over our progress as a nation (responsible for censorship and whatnot)

end rant, for now.
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holy reality
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2004, 02:22:36 »

this is a really good to the point article, if any of you have Dish TV I cannot recommend enough that you watch FSTV, it's one of the 9 thousand channels... I wish DirecTV would carry it... I watched it today at my grandmas house while housesitting and I'm not sure words could adequately express how happy I was to find that a highly alternative and independant media free of censorship (including censorship of profanity and probably nudity) existed......

We have a voice it seems, and the fact that it is on DISH TV is encouraging, milions of people have access to it, though how many watch it?

http://www.freespeech.org/fsitv/fscm2/contentviewer.php?content_id=882

excerpt:
Dr John Simpson, executive director for surgical affairs at the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons, told Ritt Goldstein of the Asia Times, "I would have thought that all the people in the vicinity would have been covered in blood, in a matter of seconds ... if it [the video] was genuine".

Simpson agrees with other experts who find it highly probable that Berg had died before his decapitation.




Home > Who killed Nick Berg?


Who killed Nick Berg?

By Richard Neville, From Sydney Morning Herald

Conspiracy theories about how the kidnapped American died in Iraq are flying around the world. Richard Neville explores the explanations.

Iraq in flames, Washington an object of disgust. What to do? At this pivotal moment, CNN and Fox News are tipped off to a clip of an American citizen being beheaded. The victim is a 26-year-old idealist from Pennsylvania, Nick Berg. Despite the perpetrators being masked, the vile deed is deemed the work of al-Qaeda.

The clip was first "discovered" on an Islamic website in Malaysia. Its Arabic title reads "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi shown slaughtering an American". al-Zarqawi is a 38-year-old Jordanian militant who fled to Iraq in 2001 after reportedly losing a leg in a US missile strike. al-Zarqawi's face is widely known and he credits himself with the deed, so why a mask?

The timing of the video was brilliant for the West. Media pundits judged the crime a deeper evil than the systemic torture of innocent Iraqis. But some people sensed a rat. But if it was not al-Qaeda, who? Surely not Uncle Sam. That's too dark, even for the CIA.

While this video shows a human body having its head chopped off, it does not necessarily portray an act of murder. Berg's headless body was found dumped on a Baghdad roadside on Saturday, May 8.

Three days later, the "live beheading" clip was uploaded from London to the Malaysian website http://www.al-ansar.biz. The statement in the video is signed with al-Zarqawi's name, dated May 11. After Fox News and CNN had downloaded the video, it disappeared from the site.

As no autopsy is available, little is known about the state of the body. No time of death, no forensic analysis. On April 6, a month before the discovery of the corpse, Berg had been released from custody. But whose custody?

Dan Senor, adviser to the US Presidential Envoy in Iraq, has said Berg was never held by the Americans. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, the Coalition's deputy head of operations, claimed he was in the custody of Iraqi police from March 24 to April 6. However, the Iraqi police chief, Major-General Mohammed Khair al-Barhawi, told Associated Press "the Iraqi police never arrested the slain American".

Berg's family are certain his jailers were the US military. His father, Michael, had been told so by the FBI. He has produced an email from a US consular official in Baghdad, Beth Payne, confirming that his son was in the hands of the US. (Later, another official said this was an error.) On April 5 in the Philadelphia office of the US Supreme Court, the Berg family had launched an action against the US military for false imprisonment. The following day, Berg was released.

The issue of custody is significant; in his final moments on screen Berg is wearing an orange jumpsuit of the kind familiar from Guantanamo Bay. The official reasons for Berg's arrest were "lack of documentation" and "suspicious activities". He carried sensitive electronic equipment for which he lacked documents. In custody, he was visited three times by the FBI. Such interviews are bound to have been recorded but no transcripts have been produced.

After his release, Berg travelled to Baghdad and the $30-a-night Al-Fanar Hotel. A fellow hotel guest told Newsday that Berg recounted how Iraqi police had quickly handed him to US authorities in Mosul and that he had been held the entire time in a jail where his guards were US soldiers.

Berg was in Baghdad to win contracts for his family firm, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, a provider of communications facilities. He often "worked at night on a tower in the neighbourhood of Abu Ghraib", according to The New York Times.

The family last heard from him on April 9, when he said he was planning to leave Iraq via Kuwait as soon as it was safe. Berg was last seen walking with his bags the following day, apparently hoping to find his way through the turmoil engulfing the city and make it to the border.

On March 7, 2004, two weeks before his arrest in Mosul, an "enemies list" had been posted on a conservative website, FreeRepublic.com. The list was compiled from signatories to an anti-war petition, and its implied purpose was to encourage readers to harass those it named.

Berg's father was on that list, as was the family firm, Prometheus. This information may well have triggered the arrest of Berg in Iraq.

Berg's politics are not clear. His father, Michael, has described his son as a "staunch supporter" of US President George Bush. Friends said Nick believed he could help rebuild Iraq "one radio tower at a time". According to The New York Times, he was attracted to the Hebrew concept of tikkun olam - healing the world through social action.

The first few seconds of the video shows Berg sitting on a white plastic chair in an orange jumpsuit. He speaks directly to the camera in a relaxed way: "My name is Nick Berg ... I have a brother and sister, David and Sara. I live in Philadelphia." His white chair is identical to those in the photographs of the Abu Ghraib prison tortures, but such chairs are probably common in Iraq. It is highly likely that this segment is edited from the interrogation of Berg during his 13 days of custody.

In the next scene, Berg is sitting on the floor with five masked figures standing behind him. We do not see the figures enter. Berg looks lifeless, though his body appears to make slight movements. A man reads a lengthy Arabic statement in a passionless monotone. He is identified as "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi", a Jordanian associate of Osama bin Laden who is tied to dozens of terrorist acts.

Yet a leaflet recently circulated in Falluja, by no means a reliable source, claims that al-Zarqawi was killed in the Sulaimaniya mountains of northern Iraq during a US bombing. A US military report last month has claimed al-Zarqawi was killed in the bombing of Falluja.

Also, the US Secretary of State, Colin Powell, has said that al-Zarqawi was fitted with a prosthetic leg in a Baghdad hospital, yet the tape shows no evidence of a limp. CNN staff familiar with al-Zarqawi's voice have been quoted as saying the voice does not sound like his.

Among the many curiosities raised on the web about the fanatical five are:

-They are well-fed, fidgety, and reveal glimpses of white skin.

-Their Arabic is heavily accented (Russian, Jordanian, Egyptian).

-An aside in Russian had been translated as "do it quickly".

-One character wears wears bulky white tennis shoes.

-The man on the far left stands in the familiar "at ease" military posture.

-The men's scarves are worn and tied by people who "haven't a clue", says conspiracy theorist Hector Carreon, like actors in Hollywood movies.

-There is even a voice at the end that seems to ask in English, "How will it be done?" [http://www.aztlan.net/nick_berg_how_done.htm]

None of this proves a grand conspiracy, but it does raise questions. In the final segment of the tape, Berg is thrown to the ground, but doesn't move. During the decapitation, starting at the front of the throat, there is little sign of blood. The scream is wildly out of sync, sounds female, and is obviously dubbed.

Dr John Simpson, executive director for surgical affairs at the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons, told Ritt Goldstein of the Asia Times, "I would have thought that all the people in the vicinity would have been covered in blood, in a matter of seconds ... if it [the video] was genuine".

Simpson agrees with other experts who find it highly probable that Berg had died before his decapitation.

But there is still the problem of Berg's slight body movements while sitting on the floor, before the beheading. According to a blogger (internet diarist), Nick Possum, "this footage was subsequently modified frame by frame to make Berg's body move very occasionally". Apparently, this can be achieved with "commonly available software". [http://www.brushtail.com.au/nick_berg_hypothesis.html]

Possum believes "the available evidence surrounding the case suggests that it was a 'black operation' by US psychological warfare specialists ... to provide the media with a moral relativity argument to counter the adverse publicity over torture at Abu Ghraib". The use of FBI footage in the opening sequence, if confirmed, suggests the involvement of high-level US Government operatives.

I do not know who killed Nick Berg, or how he died. But there's something fishy about this video.

In the end, the question is: who killed Nick Berg, and why?
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narfellus
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« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2004, 11:19:43 »

Good Lord, the lies never seem to end do they? Well, i don't know jack about this topic, but i'm glad someone brought it up. Conspiracy theories abound nowadays. The evidence i've read through above sounds very suspicious, and reminds me of this old (bad) movie called Wag the Dog with Dustin Hoffman and Robert DeNiro. In summary, the US fakes a telecast to promote national empathy for foreign relations/war, whatever. I don't really remember, the movie sucked, but hey, reality is stranger than fiction...
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kiauma
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« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2004, 11:28:37 »

I liked 'Wag the Dog'.  I thought it was entertaining in a thought provoking and darkly humorous way - my kind of movie.  [^]
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« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2004, 11:54:09 »

I honestly don't remember a whole about the movie, just that it didn't make a huge impression on me. But the central idea that we are so easily manipulated is what stuck with me.
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kiauma
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2004, 13:32:26 »

The movie had it's wack parts, but yeah, the theme was well dramatised.
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2004, 00:08:50 »

Gee, I wonder what his family thinks.  HE IS DEAD, PEOPLE!

He was beheaded.  So was a reporter earlier in the year.  And now there is another captive in Saudi Arabia who might be the next one.

Just because some pinheads seem to want to equate some stupid soldiers pointing and laughing and putting panties on prisoners heads and dragging them around on a leash with beheading - does not make the two acts equivalent.  ONE KEY DIFFERENCE - THOSE PRISONERS STILL HAVE THEIR HEADS.  It is hardly the same.

And if the President and pals conspired to behead this man, then try him for treason.  If there is no proof of that - and there is no proof of it, then give it a rest.

So there were inconsistencies in an amateur video.  So what?  It means nothing other than the people who set it up did not know what to do with it.  If it had been done by the people you think are so clever as to think up all these things, don't you think they would know how to do it a-la-Hollywood production?  You are giving them too much credit.

The terrorists may be determined, but they are not the brightest crayons in the box or they would be questioning the motives of their leaders and much of the brainwashing that is done to them.

How many of you could I get to go out on a suicide mission just because I can convince you someone - or a group of someones -- need killing?  How about hacking off someone's head?

It is no wonder more and more of these kinds of murders are happening.  They know they have an audience in too many places that will somehow excuse it as justifiable rage, or righting some wrong, or with some crazy conspiracy theory that the US government or Bush himself did it.  

The conspiracy crazies would rather believe that than the sad, simple fact that there are brutal people in that part of the world who will go to any extreme of real torture and murder - as much for shock value as for anything else.  We could give them everything they claim they want and it would not stop the murders of anyone who presents them with an easy target.  They are addicted to the sense of power it gives them in a world where they basically have had no power.  

Their leaders - terrorist ones and some clerics - are not about to give them any real power.  Nor are these oil rich countries about to share the wealth with them.  

Their only source of feeling powerful is in holding the power of life and death over an unarmed man.  Let us not glorify it or try to make it into something it isn't.

It is awful enough without all this nonsense.
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2004, 08:39:29 »

quote:
Originally posted by Jenadots

Gee, I wonder what his family thinks.  HE IS DEAD, PEOPLE!

He was beheaded.  So was a reporter earlier in the year.  And now there is another captive in Saudi Arabia who might be the next one.

Just because some pinheads seem to want to equate some stupid soldiers pointing and laughing and putting panties on prisoners heads and dragging them around on a leash with beheading - does not make the two acts equivalent.  ONE KEY DIFFERENCE - THOSE PRISONERS STILL HAVE THEIR HEADS.  It is hardly the same.

And if the President and pals conspired to behead this man, then try him for treason.  If there is no proof of that - and there is no proof of it, then give it a rest.

So there were inconsistencies in an amateur video.  So what?  It means nothing other than the people who set it up did not know what to do with it.  If it had been done by the people you think are so clever as to think up all these things, don't you think they would know how to do it a-la-Hollywood production?  You are giving them too much credit.

The terrorists may be determined, but they are not the brightest crayons in the box or they would be questioning the motives of their leaders and much of the brainwashing that is done to them.

How many of you could I get to go out on a suicide mission just because I can convince you someone - or a group of someones -- need killing?  How about hacking off someone's head?

It is no wonder more and more of these kinds of murders are happening.  They know they have an audience in too many places that will somehow excuse it as justifiable rage, or righting some wrong, or with some crazy conspiracy theory that the US government or Bush himself did it.  

The conspiracy crazies would rather believe that than the sad, simple fact that there are brutal people in that part of the world who will go to any extreme of real torture and murder - as much for shock value as for anything else.  We could give them everything they claim they want and it would not stop the murders of anyone who presents them with an easy target.  They are addicted to the sense of power it gives them in a world where they basically have had no power.  

Their leaders - terrorist ones and some clerics - are not about to give them any real power.  Nor are these oil rich countries about to share the wealth with them.  

Their only source of feeling powerful is in holding the power of life and death over an unarmed man.  Let us not glorify it or try to make it into something it isn't.

It is awful enough without all this nonsense.



Are you some kind of Bush apologist ??
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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2004, 19:45:18 »

Nope.  I just don't happen to believe conspriacy theories - because they are just that....theoretical nonsense, political agendas, and figments of imagination.  Good stories, but low on facts or very selective and manipulative of facts.  

None of them have proved to be true.  Of course, you may happen to believe that President Johnson killed Kennedy, the aliens from planet X are running the government, and Elvis is still alive because he faked his own death.  

Why everybody knows Kennedy didn't die - he is in disguise in a rest home, Marilyn Monroe was the one who faked her own death, the real rulers of the earth are the reptilians from below the surface, and Elvis isn't dead, that was just his twin that died. [Tongue]

Not to mention the crazy pills in our water put there by the CIA, the end of the world any minute now, and the intelligent computers the government is hiding are about to kill us all off so they can rule the world.  

Until then, if you have any real proof, get your senator to try Bush
for treason.  Forget impeachment -- just go right to the big one, a senate trial, hangin, and all.  If there was any real proof of it, don't you think assorted senators would be doing this?
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2004, 19:51:56 »

PS -- I didn't believe the conspiracy theories about Clinton and all the people who suddenly died during his administration either.  

Vince Foster died.  That happens.  I don't think Hillary & Bill did it.
 
Tho, there were plenty of conspiracy theories about it at the time and many still do believe they did.

Again, lots of theories and speculations but no proof.

Of course, If I were Kerry, I doubt I would be giving any thought to Hillary as the Vice-President - just in case the "theories" are right.[Wink]
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2004, 22:58:06 »

The New York Times newspaper claims he did.  They did their own, independent recount - it was the third recount.  

And that paper is about as liberal as a newspaper gets in the USA.
Their editorial board would have been dancing in the streets if they could have found otherwise...but they reported that he did win the Florida vote.  I forgot what the actual numbers were, but they found no basis for contesting the outcome.  And they would have loved a scandal.  

I wonder what will happen this year.  There are already problems with the new computerized voting machines that have no paper receipts.  In Illinois, one of the more notorious places for vote fraud, we use the punch card method.  We just have a lot of dead people voting.[Wink] I am sure Florida and a few other states will be monitored very closely.  

It will likely be another very close election and another bitter one with charges of fraud all over the place.
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2004, 21:04:20 »

Paul Johnson is dead, he was beheaded just like Berg.

(sarcasm)
I guess that the evil conspirators killed another one.
(/sarcasm)
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« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2004, 05:46:06 »

quote:
The New York Times newspaper claims he did. They did their own, independent recount - it was the third recount.

There are many news reports about the voters purge ordered by Jeb Bush, which is supposed to remove felons voting rights...  The problem is that , among the list, there were thousands of non-felons...
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Jenadots
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« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2004, 17:41:48 »

Evidence?Huh

Even if all the non-felons voted, if they voted as the rest of their state, it still would have been 49-51 and Bush still would have won.  

Also, one must include the absentee, overseas ballots and the military ballots which the Democrats had thrown out.  it was assumed that most of those votes were for Bush which is why they were contested so heatedly.

The real problem was that Gore did not want a recount of the entire state.  Had he asked for that, he would have gotten it and it would not have ended up in the courts.  He didn't want that because he knows that the northern half of the state is far more conservative in its voting pattern than the southern end.  

His mistake, but it would not have changed the outcome.  If anything, the winning margin would have been larger for Bush if the whole state had been recounted.  Bush did ask for a recount of the whole state and all the absentee ballots that had been thrown out.  Gore didn't.

And there were at least a few other states where either one of them could have asked for a recount, but neither did.  Why?  Who knows?

The real problem here is that only half of the eligible voters actually put one foot in front of the other and go to the voting booth.  Then, too many of them loudly whine about the outcome.

New York Times found no evidence of fraud, period.  And they tried hard to find it in any and all areas.  It is one of the most anti-Bush newspapers in the country.  They went crazy when they had to publish their findings.  They would have looked like real fools if they didn't publish.
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« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2004, 19:02:57 »

quote:
Evidence?Huh

Just read the news...  It's in hundreds of newspapers websites.
quote:
Even if all the non-felons voted, if they voted as the rest of their state

That's a big 'if'.  Do you really think that Jeb Bush would have put some pro-bush voters on his purge list...Huh
quote:
New York Times found no evidence of fraud, period.

The NYT is the NYT, just a newspaper; period.
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« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2004, 21:31:14 »

a bit late but i just noticed this section existed

http://www.tribemagazine.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=67991

Buzz:

The Nick Berg execution is rapidly rising to the level of a "conspiracy theory," so many facts, as with 9/11, are just not "adding up." I propose a new theory, outlined below, that argues that Abu Musab Zarqawi could not have been the executioner, and therefore the CIA must be lying. But first a few introductory tidbits.

Following up on a letter from Destin, FL published in the Mailbag on the 13th, and today's articles at BuzzFlash titled More Analysis of Nick Berg Conspiracy Theories 5/14 and Conspiracy Theories Abound About the Nick Berg Killing -- And With Good Reason.... the following issues set the stage for the final argument, No. 12 below, that I propose, that the CIA is lying about the identity of the killer.

Some of the issues discussed below may in fact be "coincidental" (such as the demeanor and appearance of the executioners, the orange jump suit) but others are much more critical of the facts (e.g., Nick Berg's computer used by Zacarious Moussaoui to send emails).

1. Nick Berg's father, Michael Berg, has his business listed on the FreeRepublic web site (freeper site) as an "Enemy of the State". (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts -- this may have been linked to the 3 visits by the FBI during Nick Berg's containment by the Iraqi Police and then the US Military).

2. The FBI has told us (CNN, MSNBC, FOX) that Nick Berg's e-mail account was used by the "20th hijacker" of 9-11, the infamous Zacarious Moussaoui, whose computer held evidence of the 9-11 hijackers (and could not be searched by the FBI field office because of "orders from Washington," though the office had every reason to suspect Moussaoui was "up to something" since he only wanted to learn how to "steer" a commercial airliner, and was not interested in take-offs or landings).

The FBI interviewed Nick Berg about Moussaoui's use of his e-mail account to send "emails" but concluded that it was entirely "coincidental." Berg had apparently given the password to his e-mail account to an acquaintance of Moussaoui who he met on a bus (http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeas...nter/index.html).

3. We now know the military lied about keeping Nick Berg in custody. Why did the US Military hold Nick Berg for 13 days? That question has yet to be answered, nor have we been provided an answer as to why the military lied about holding Nick Berg.

4. On the first day of Nick Berg's execution, it was reported on several major news networks that Al-Qaeda was connected to the executioner's statement, which turned out to be false. The US Intelligence translation still retains this "reference" to Al-Qaeda, which does not exist. (Muslim translation: http://www.angryfinger.org/archives/000232.html) (Official US Transcript: http://www.corrente.blogspot.com/)

5. There is no evidence that the killer wore a prosthetic device (as Abu Musab Zarqawi allegedly does, according to previous CIA reports). (http://www.iht.com/articles/86184.html)

6. The skin color of the terrorists in the film is white, not brown.. (http://www.angryfinger.org/archives/000232.html)

7. The orange jump suit "appears" to be identical to the jumpsuits used at Guantanamo.

8. Large green tattooed "dots" are known to be on the back of Abu Musab Zarqawi's left hand. These tattoos cannot be seen in the close up video of the execution, though the back of his hand is fairly visible. (http://www.iht.com/articles/86184.html)

9. At least some experts have agreed that the accent of the executioner is not "Jordanian," the birthplace of Abu Musab Zarqawi (http://www.angryfinger.org/archives/000232.html).

10. It has been reported all week in the media that Nick Berg was "looking for business" for his small telecommunications business (some of his friends in Iraq who were interviewed said "business was booming," yet others said Nick was leaving because he "couldn't find any work.")

11. It has been reported by people who knew Nick in Iraq (interviews, major networks) that strangely enough, Nick "traveled" at night. Indeed, when Nick was initially picked up by Iraqi Police (checkpoint) he was held because of "suspicious activity."

Analysis of Execution video -- I propose that the executioner's voice (according to my analysis of listening closely to the audio feed) is not that of the killer's. When listening to the executioner's voice on the tape one first notes that there is a 2-3 second lag in the "time" between audio and video, audio leading. This is consistent with the argument that the video camera and tape recorder are actually two different recording devices. What convinced me that the executioner could not be the "voice" behind the document, read prior to Nick Berg's execution, is the lack of consistency seen between the video and audio recordings, even if the 2-3 second delay is considered. A careful viewing of the video shows the executioner on "several occasions" fumbling with the 2 pages that he held, and at times reading the same page over again -- or so it appears. At least 4 times during the video the executioner is "turning over" pages, holding the pages "apart" as if confused, and all of this adds up to one conclusion. There should have been a "pause" or "2-3 second delay" in the reading of the documents during the physical handling of the documents -- but none is found that is long enough to account for it.

Conclusion: The executioner is not "reading" the document. Someone else is. The executioner is trying his best to "lip sinc" the reading, but fails miserably on close inspection. The "smooth" reading of the document is entirely inconsistent (according my analysis of the video) and therefore cannot be the same person that is recording into the audio device.

There are many unanswered questions remaining, the least of which why the networks and military have already been caught in several lies about the whole ordeal.

There is no doubt that this video served the purpose (at least for Freepers) of turning down the heat on the Iraqi abuse scandals (which I would propose is systemic) -- indeed -- the majority of sites which had links to the video (it is difficult to find now) were right wing sites (in their discussions forums they "brag" about this, and the fact that the video links were nearly absent from "left wing" sites; a rather sickening declaration of their hatred of the left).

The timing, the inconsistencies, Berg's motives for being in Iraq, are all unanswered questions. That the executioner appears not to be the "voice" behind the audio seems particularly convincing on close inspection.

Whatever the truth is behind all of this, it is hidden somewhere behind closed doors.

But "closed doors" is the modus operandi of the current Bush administration.

Roy Thomas
Crestview, FL

* * *

Buzz,

Question is: If Nick Berg had ties to Al Quaida, why would they kill him? And why did the Bush Administration put out the story that he was killed because he was Jewish? And if he was Jewish why would Al Quaida have anything to do with him, or he with them?

The whole thing sounds so phony it could come out of a bad movie, only the guy died a horrible death, and is being smeared. The CIA doesn't try this hard for nothing.

A Loyal Expatriate Reader in Germany

BUZZFLASH READER CONTRIBUTIONS

discuss.
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