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Author Topic: US Afghan Massacre: 3000 dead.  (Read 2703 times)
kiauma
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« on: May 21, 2004, 21:53:17 »

I get Democracy Now! on a local (and truly independant) radio station.

Amy Goodman is an inspiration.
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volcomstone
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2004, 15:16:19 »

america =fourth reich

soooooooo when hitler kills it is bad, when america does, its for the good of the world.
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2004, 15:16:19 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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kiauma
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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2004, 21:58:54 »

You're just jealous.
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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2004, 02:39:24 »

quote:
Originally posted by volcomstone

america =fourth reich

soooooooo when hitler kills it is bad, when america does, its for the good of the world.



Americans aren't German. That's a critical requirement to be the 'fourth reich'. I won't even comment on US policies being compared to Hitler, as corrupt as they may be.

The US is the most powerful country in the world at the present time. When there are problems in foreign countries, if anyone is expected to intervene, it's usually the US. The UN has some nice things going for it, but once again we're the key member there. In the past, isolationism led to Pearl Harbor. While Europe and Asia were being raped by the Germans and Japanese, people in the US just sat back and watched movies and tried to enjoy life, and then all of a sudden it blew up in our face when the Japanese came in and bombed the hell out of us. It was by a fluke of luck for us that our aircraft carriers were out doing excercises or else things could've turned out much worse for humanity, as we didn't beat the Germans and Japanese by much at all.

So now rather than sitting back and minding our own business, the US has been getting involved in a lot of other countries' business, and sometimes in a very controversial way. For us it's the lesser of two evils for ourselves since if we sat back and didn't do anything, we would probably be having some really bad economic problems right now because the vast majority of the world's oil would be in Muslim hands. The Muslims wouldn't be too eager to sell us the oil because of the state of Israel being created right over one of the most sacred Muslim sites, and then to top it off, we supply the Jews there with superiorly advanced weapons (rather stupid of us if you ask me, at least compared to some alternatives)!

So now you have to realize that if the US wasn't involved in the Middle East for its oil, the US economy would suffer and consequently the economy of Europe and all of the civilized world in return. However, at the same time, of course some things we've been doing in the Middle East and careless and rather stupid. The biggest error (and this is what caused this whole situation, and as much Europe's fault as our own, just so maybe a few people will realize this isn't ALL the US's fault, but we've all chipped into this mess and it isn't one country's fault) was the creation of Israel. After WW2, Jerusalem and the area around it, all under Muslim control, was seized militarily and given to Jews from Europe because of what happened during the Holocaust. If I remember correctly, American and British leaders wanted to put a Jewish state in Africa, out of the Muslims' way, but that didn't work out and Israel was stupidly placed over Jerusalem. Now the Muslims, obviously ticked, are bombing the hell out of Israel with fanatical suicide bombers.

Now, having said all that, the US has become pretty damned corrupt I think. I don't even feel like talking about how reversed our government has become, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did slaughter all those taliban members. But what's going on in the Middle East in general (Gulf Wars) isn't some massive f***-up that's the US's alone and you can't really bash us alone for it. What makes me feel like renouncing my citizenship is how we're tirelessly backing Israel and just prolonging the whole bad situation. The Jews in Israel should just return to Europe or North America or wherever they'd like to go, but we didn't have the right to take Jerusalem from the Muslims in the first place. If we could re-establish relations with the Muslims by giving them back Jerusalem, that might solve the oil problem immediately anyway.

I forgot where I was trying to go with that.. So I'll just leave it there I guess for right now.
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holy reality
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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2004, 16:35:01 »

no leaf clover...

the one thing i can't agree with is the Pearl Harbor thing... it is not solidly proven (but given how history repeats itself [think 9/11]) likely, that we let Pearl  Harbor happen so that we could give the Americans a reason to go to war.

It is proven, that during our witch hunt against commies, the military drafted plans to COMMIT ACTS OF TERRORISM ON US CITIZIENS AND BLAME IT ON CUBAN TERRORISM to go to war with Cuba.

It is probably that Bush let 9/11 happen so that he could get his hands in some oil and set up some US dictatorships over in the middle east.

Let me ask you.... why didn't he have to be under oath during the 9/11 comission? Why can't we hear what he had to say? Why won't he apologize to his families? Even I feel like apologizing to them and I didn't do anything...... why was the comission delayed for so many years? Why can't we see their official conclusive report? Why all the secrecy? Why have a bunch of notorious big brother thugs and players (i.e. John Poindexter) working for you?

What happened to the pentagon? Where was the plane wreckage? How could a huge plane hit such a small building? How come the damage done to the pentagon looked like it was done by a WINGLESS PLANE? Where were the wings? How could a wingless plane fly into the pentagon at a couple hundred miles per hour.....

Why did various eyewitnesses say a BOMB went off, and nothing about a plane? Why did Rumsfield originally say terrorists used missles against the WTC? Why did various WTC survivors say several bombs went off inside in the building? Why did various demolition crews announce they were hired to demolish some of the lesser WTC buildings that day?

Why were all the hijackers saudi yet we invaded Afghanistan? Why go after the taliban who would not give us access to an oil pipeline we wanted?

Why why why why why why why.....

All it takes is a rational man with an internet connection to realize shady things are going down.
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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2004, 16:35:01 »



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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2004, 20:04:37 »

I wouldn't be surprised if they contributed to 9/11. Our government sucks a**.

Pearl Harbor being known about.. That's an interesting idea, I guess. I've never really thought much about it but I do know that Roosevelt wanted to go to war even though most people didn't in the US. Roosevelt knew what was going on and knew it would come to us sooner or later anyway. And then all the aircraft carriers were out that day supposedly by luck. Who knows.
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narfellus
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2004, 14:53:12 »

What is sad is that all of this humanity killing humanity is so pointless. It really is a clear sign of how little our society in general has advanced. Most people believe that what they need must be taken by force. It's even funnier how most countries do what they do in the name of God, and ask God to defeat their "evil" enemies. We've advanced technologically, and continue to do so, but most people believe the world they are in is the only one that exists. And therefore believe it must be dreadfully important.
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Jenadots
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« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2004, 22:54:49 »

USA - not perfect...run by imperfect people.  Some woosy and some power mad -- as in every other country on earth. Soldiers are imperfect people too and young, and immature, and sometimes they snap.  Not an excuse, just the nastier side of human nature.  

3000 Taliban dead.  Likely the Taliban is responsible for the deaths and torturing of 10 times, even 100 times that number.  

War is war.  It is awful.  And people die.  Let us give this all a little perspective.  

If someone wanted to behead you, your son, or father, or brother, would you really care what someone did to a person who knew the where's and when's in order to stop it?  

I am sorry people have died, some of them just bystanders trying to survive.  But that is what war is.  It is also somewhat of a human sickness and past-time for too many.  Too many idle young men with little hope of a better tomorrow.  

I don't like the course my country is on, but then I am a bit of an isolationist.  I would prefer we bring all the USA's troops home from the hundred and six countries they are in, put them on our own borders and tell the rest of the world we will trade with you and even visit you but defend yourselves - or not.  I would say "We are done bleeding and dying on foreign soil."  

I would prefer us to be Switzerland in our foreign policy -- totally neutral.  And of course, I would say to those who truly hate us, just say no to our money...and our humanitarian aid...and our business...and our music...and certainly our movies and anything else that you associate with us.  

That should make everybody happy.  But I seriously doubt if the rest of the world would let us do that..too may calls for you must help us out of this mess...whatever it is.  

And it certainly would not stop men like Bin Laden screaming to the world that we all deserve to die because he says so.  Notice he never sends any of his own sons on the suicide missions.  Just as I notice that only one member of congress has a child in the military.

No, the terrorists will just find some other excuse to attack and kill as many of my American brothers and sisters as they can.  The sad truth is that terrorists are all too welcome in too many countries and that welcome has made them bolder with each year that passes.  They won't stop attacking, so just what does one do with them?  

I hope Afghanistan somehow recovers from its traumas and wars of the past decades.  It was never a rich country, but it used to be a developing nation with a lot of potential.  

Sooner or later, the USA will leave there just as we will leave Iraq.
Contrary to what some say, the USA does not want colonies or any more states.  We already have enough people, many of whom we can and should take better care of and with, like our children and our elderly.  

The Chinese sometimes call the USA a sleeping tiger.  Probably an accurate description.  Fact is, every country that has ever lost a war to the USA ends up being far better off than they would have been if they defeated us.  i.e. Germany & Japan.  Even the former Soviet Union of Russia will someday find its way economically and politically to a much brighter future than they had under communism.  

Things like peace, and co-existence take time - sometimes lifetimes.  

It would be wonderful if we could all just snap our fingers and stop the battles and the killings all over the world.  But that is not going to happen.  

And if you do not like the government -- get out and vote or run for office yourself. You have a voice, learn how to use it.  

Use a pen, use a phone, use the internet -- what is more democratic than the internet?  Much of what is on it is BS, but use your mind to weed through it and communicate to those in power what it is you think should change.  

But do not be surprised if 20 years from now, somebody is at war somewhere and that more people are dying in one.  Sadly, that is the story of mankind.
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Jenadots
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2004, 15:28:17 »

Consider the choices: two rich guys from Yale.  Two sides of the same coin.

But Kerry will tax me into poverty.  Been there.  Didn't like it.

Don't much like what the federal government does with the tax money it does take.  From wars to give-away programs, all are riddled with wasteful inefficiencies.  

I have yet to hear either one of them address the spending issue with any sense of reality.  

Both of them, and the Congress, act as if our collective wallets, bank accounts, and paychecks are bottomless pits they can dig into for whatever.  

I really don't know how we got into a situation where the government tells us how much of our money we get to keep instead of us telling the government how much we will let them have - and they need to eliminate the waste and learn to live with what we think they should get from us.

Oh, well...let's all just keep working and contacting senators and congressmen about what we want.  

I might consider Kerry if he didn't change his positions as often as he changes his very expensive shoes.  

I will just have to think about it some more...and maybe vote for Nader.

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Jenadots
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2004, 20:51:53 »

I am considering the lesser of two evils.  I am of the Vietnam War veteran's generation so I know well how most of them, including Kerry with his short 4 month tour, came back.  

So I will go with Nader or Bush.  Kerry has yet to say anything much that appeals to me.  If he can't connect with his own generation, how is he going to do so with everyone else?  

I would vote for McCain in a second, and maybe even Howard Dean or Jonathan Edwards,  but everytime I think of voting for Kerry, I get a blank.  

So listen to Nader.  I still can't figure out how Kerry won the nomination when there were so many others in the running.  

And I am also leery of anyone who says things like they always wanted to be President and geared their whole life towards it.  Guess I don't like the sense of entitlement that sort of thing implies.

Nor do I like some of the company he keeps, in the form of some of the more radical groups, that adamantly and hatefully speak about anyone else. It is one thing to disagree, it is another to be hateful and talk about how much they "hate" people in the Bush administration.  That turns passion for politics into dysfunctional fanaticism.  

Turns most people off to any real message they might have.

I no longer listen to it.
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holy reality
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2004, 20:38:44 »

How is kerry going to tax you into to poverty?

Last time I heard middle class tax cuts, upper class tax raises.

Where as Bush is for upper class tax cuts and is considering raising middle class taxes, AND, well, I heard something about an AMT clause from CBS news that screws middle class people over.


also the US gov is responsible for murdering millions of innocent people over the past few years... does that mean it's okay to slaughter us? Does that make 9/11 okay?

A lot of us have no issues with randomly kiling brown people, maybe it does, maybe the US citiziens as a whole are worthless intoelrant people not much better than the Taliban, does that make 9/11 okay?

Killing 3000 Nazis is just as bad as killing 3000 Jews at any rate.....

you can justify anything, fact of the matter is it was wrong, it was illegal, it ("Taliban" slaughter) was horrible, and I hope to God it's just a huge lie, but it doesn't sound that way.

keep in mind we round up any males aged 18-65 and call them enemy combatants in iraq, I'm sure many of those "Taliban" killed had done nothing at all wrong or killed anyone.
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2004, 23:16:01 »

Dear Holy Reality...just where are those millions of bodies you say the USA has killed over the past few years?  Where have they hidden them?  How did they do it?  Which nation no longer exists?  

There is absolutely no evidence that this is true.  Millions of people do not get killed and nobody knows it.
 
As to taxing me into poverty -- just listen to some of his more radical supporters and people who will have influence in his cabinet.  Rich is defined as anyone who is working.  

The top two percent of taxpayers already pay 65% of the federal tax bill.  Just how much more do you want them to pay?  And what he says today about the top 2% will quickly become what?  the top 5%? top 20%?
Why not just tax them 100% so there is no one rich enough to give anyone else a job?

I grew up with absolutely nothing and have worked very hard for what I have.

All I know is that everytime somebody says they are only going to tax the rich, my taxes seem to go up and I would not put myself into the "rich" category.  Comfortable, yes.  Rich, no.  

As to the members of the Taliban -- all of them support brutality and killing anyone who is not.  They made no claims of not supporting the deaths of others.  They terrorized their own people, tortured and killed many of them.  The ones on the loose continue to do so.  

Or perhaps you hadn't heard about that?

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Jenadots
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2004, 01:19:32 »

Well, at least a chimpanzee is real. [Cheesy]

May not be as pretty or as cute as a fictional, talking tree but reality usually isn't.

So who will win?  Think about the best hair theory...in our superficial, TV-Hollywood era of politics, the guy with the best hair usually wins.  Bush has better hair than Gore.  If he let it grow a little, he probably has better hair than Kerry.  Clinton certainly had better hair than George Bush Sr.  Jimmy Carter had the best hair as did Reagan when they ran and won.  Kennedy started it all - his hair was way better than Nixon's not to mention all the dead people who usually vote in Chicago.  

You have to go way back to Eisenhower to find a bald or balding guy winning the election.  But he had the sentimental support of all his former GI's and was a real hero.  And no hair seemed better than the snippets of hair on Stevenson's head.  

But in our time -- the best hair theory makes as much sense as anything else and certainly more sense than all the political pundits who claim to know which candidate has the edge.  

It will be close and we do have to look at changes in haircuts, and in Kerry's case, hairspray - his hair doesn't seem to move when he does.
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Jenadots
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2004, 07:01:58 »

Runlola - you just proved the point about superficiality with the Brad Pitt for President comment.  

We do not need anymore Hollywood actors in the White House, please. They may look good and be fancy talkers and they sure know how to pretend being something.  But running the country?  No thanks.
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holy reality
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« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2004, 20:47:23 »

.............. Sad

I wish they carried Democracy NOW in my state.... I'm not sure how to react to this at all, I believe it sadly, but I don't know... I don't want to. I could totally see how it could have happened especially in the immediate post 9/11 mindset where we have hundreds of thousands (i was one of them sadly) screaming for genocide, nuking places, etc.....

Thursday, May 20th, 2004
Afghan Massacre: Eyewitnesses Testify that US Troops Were Complicit in the Massacre of up to 3,000 Taliban Prisoners During the Afghan War

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In hearings yesterday before the Senate Armed Services Committee, the head of US Central Command Gen. John Abizaid said the U.S. military has investigated 75 cases of abuse of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan since late 2002. Abizaid is responsible for US military operations in both countries. He said the army was still investigating several homicides in Afghanistan that went as far back as December 2002.

The issue of the US military's treatment of prisoners in Afghanistan and Iraq has only become a major issue in the US since scores of photos showing US soldiers abusing prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq were published by US media outlets. But the abuse has been going on from the beginning of the so-called war on terror, even if the corporate media only picked up on the story in the past few weeks.

Today, we are going to play a documentary that Democracy Now! premiered in the US a year ago this week: "Afghan Massacre: The Convoy of Death." It was produced and directed by award-winning Irish filmmaker Jamie Doran. The film provides eyewitness testimony that U.S. troops were complicit in the massacre of thousands of Taliban prisoners during the Afghan War.

According to eyewitnesses, after the seige of Kunduz, some three thousand prisoners were forced into sealed containers and loaded onto trucks for transport to Sheberghan prison. Eyewitnesses say when the prisoners began shouting for air, U.S.-allied Afghan soldiers fired directly into the truck, killing many of them. The rest suffered through an appalling road trip lasting up to four days, so thirsty they clawed at the skin of their fellow prisoners as they licked perspiration and even drank blood from open wounds.

Witnesses say that when the trucks arrived and soldiers opened the containers, most of the people inside were dead. They also say US Special Forces re-directed the containers carrying the living and dead into the desert and stood by as survivors were shot and buried. Now, up to three thousand bodies lie buried in a mass grave.

The film has sent shockwaves around the world. It has been broadcast on national television in Britain, Germany, Italy and Australia. It has been screened by the European parliament. It has outraged human rights groups and international human rights lawyers. They are calling for investigation into whether U.S. Special Forces are guilty of war crimes.

But most Americans have never heard of the film. That's because not one corporate media outlet in the U.S. will touch it. Before Democracy Now! premiered the film one year ago this week, it had never before been broadcast in this country.

"Afghan Massacre" is produced and directed by award-winning Irish filmmaker Jamie Doran. Doran has worked at the highest levels of television film production for more than two decades. His films have been broadcast on virtually every major channel throughout the world. On average, each of his films are seen in around 35 countries. Before establishing his independent television company, Jamie Doran spent over seven years at BBC Television.

The film was researched by award-winning journalist Najibullah Quraishi, who was beaten almost to death when he tried to obtain video evidence of US Special Forcesí complicity in the massacre. Two of the witnesses who testified in the film are now dead.

http://www.democracynow.org/article...04/05/20/147230
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