OBE to RTZ or not

[henegg]

Any thoughts or input appreciated.

Last night I went to bed quite early, leaving my wife downstairs to finish feeding our daughter,  I read a few pages of AD before turning off the light.  It wasn't long before i was able to shift my conscious outside of my body.  Once outside, I thought to myself wouldn't it be fun to travel downstairs to visit my wife.  So that is what i did, and this is where things become strange.

As soon, as i came into the room, i could see that my wife could see me, we chatted for a while about me being out of body etc.  I then returned to my body.  

When my wife did come to bed I asked her if she had seen me, she said no, and neither has she fallen asleep.  

So I need to know what happened, Did my OBE just turn into a lucid dream.  Or can this be put down to a reality fluctuation.
I might also add that a dog, that we recently re-homed also seemed to be there looking for a petting.  

All input appreciated,

Gav

[Froglet]

Hello Henegg,

I'm not that experience myself... I'm still learning alot.  But I remember in Robert Monroe's Books he says that he talks to people.  And later he confirms they were in that location but they don't remember talking to him.  I believe that what he concludes is that it was their subconsiouness.  Or atleast that's what I thought he was saying.  Although I'm not a good source on whether or not this was an obe or a LD.

Good Luck

[henegg]

Thxs for your input froglet, It may be so.  Anybody else have any thought?

[stephen~]

A contradiction in terms surely, to have a 'real time' projection in which a person you know to be otherwise engaged doing something else, later confirmed, is having  a conversation with you?

Sounds like it started as an RTZ and reality broke down, into something else.

it is typical what you report even for OBEs. I wish more OBE authors would have reported much more on these phenomena, but of course, there is a little bit of ``selectivity`` to only report the most `real` experiences in the RTZ.

With questions of proof what does it serve to report the bits where reality fades? As you know, it is never all correct or all wrong, and the most important things are weight of (or general feel of)  those that are correct when trying to assess the perceived validity of the real-time part of the experience. I.e - Is this a real-time projection, or am I experiencing something else?  The earlier in the projection, the more 'real' for me.

That's why we talk about real time projections, I think, because they have bearing on the personal validity of the projection in the way astral ones can't. You know you can go back and check with the original scene, if you have to. The term RTZ would be meaningless in projections that had no basis in real time, I think. At some point you have to accept that it is no longer 'real time' when you start having conversations with someone who is looking after a baby in reality. Perhaps I am being a little too dogmatic about terms and where they start and end though.

[henegg]

Thxs guys for your replies, which gives me alot of food for thought.  I suppose I will just experment a bit further.  Even do as time goes on, I am loseing more interest in RTZ projection, and concentrating more on the Astral.

Thxs again.

[redcatherine]

Did my OBE just turn into a lucid dream?Gav

Well Done !
It sounds to me as if you did project and that you did speak to a higher self or a level of your wife 's consciousness that she was not aware of yet .  I suggest to continue in the same manner but appear to someone who can see clairvoyantly and who can affirm your visits and speak with you when you project .

[Nostic]

This may be natural to the OBE state, and experiencing the RTZ without "reality fluctuations" may be the unnatural phenonomenon.

...or simply atypical due to a lack of mastery... which is what I believe.

[Nostic]

...or simply atypical due to a lack of mastery... which is what I believe.

True, up to a certain point you can qualify such experiences as such.

In my experience, it gets to be harder to maintain that position over time.

Even very experienced RTZ projectors go to great lengths to ensure RTZ projections as an exact replication of the physical like by for example suggesting RTZ projections away from cities and populated areas, as well as laboratory conditions to be conducted in large warehouses and so forth to avoid passing through through walls and windows and anything else contributing to  "reality fluctuations".

So the lack of mastery you attribute to me seems to apply to every known OBE author in the world.

Perhaps then, this is not due to "mastery", but other factors entirely, as mentioned earlier.

I wasn't really singling you out Tom. Sorry if you thought I was.
When you say "every single OBE author in the world"... you mean, you know them all? And have read all of their works?
But more importantly, the problem I see is that the typical projector, in order to project, must first enter an altered mental state; either that or they have to in some way make a mental jump. But is that the only way to project? Or is that simply the common way?
Limitations are what we're concerning ourselves with here. And I'm convinced that every limitation can be overcome... simply that, nothing more.

[henegg]

While I definately wouldn't claim to be a master, I have projected alot over the last 15 years.  And while  I am well accustomed to reality fluctuations while in my local RTZ,  this is the first time that I have met and spoken to my wife, while being out.  I have of course seen her reguraly lying next to me when I do exit.  
This episode of meeting and talking to her, has thrown a spanner in the works, and made me question  the validity of other OBE's that I've had.

[Nostic]

I wasn't really singling you out Tom. Sorry if you thought I was. When you say "every single OBE author in the world"... you mean, you know them all? And have read all of their works?
But more importantly, the problem I see is that the typical projector, in order to project, must first enter an altered mental state; either that or they have to in some way make a mental jump. But is that the only way to project? Or is that simply the common way?
Limitations are what we're concerning ourselves with here. And I'm convinced that every limitation can be overcome... simply that, nothing more.

No worries, didn't mean to come across touchy. But it is an irritating factor that these "reality fluctuations" and categorical distinctions have led me astray for a long time in an understanding of OBEs.

Yes, I think  read them all. Pretty much, up until people like Yram, and books that are hard to come by.

It is correct that the RTZ can be experienced without "reality fluctuations", but all I am saying is simply that it is almost like forcing the OBE state within a a certain regime, while a lot of interesting information can come in that would go unnoticed otherwise by opening oneself up to these fluctuations.

I think what is issue here not much the reality of RTZ projections in terms of "proof", but the wider reality in which they occur.

OK, I can deal with that. I just think the problem here is one of clarity. Like in science, you know more, you evlove, you do better, you do the things that you once thought to be impossible (or improbable)... and that's the game of life, and the story of humanity.

[Frank]

Hi:

We all have many, many aspects of ourselves. People tend to think of themselves as a singular person but we are anything but. Within Focus 2 of consciousness we create all manner of aspects for all manner of different actions. It sounds like the person experienced a normal F1/F2 overlay with another aspect of the person in question. When I say aspect I'm not talking about other focuses. Each focus will have many, many aspects that are created by the focus in question.

Yours,
Frank

[stephen~]

While I definately wouldn't claim to be a master, I have projected alot over the last 15 years. And while I am well accustomed to reality fluctuations while in my local RTZ, this is the first time that I have met and spoken to my wife, while being out. I have of course seen her reguraly lying next to me when I do exit.
This episode of meeting and talking to her, has thrown a spanner in the works, and made me question the validity of other OBE's that I've had.

I too regularly see people on my RTZs that are doing exactly what they were doing, sleeping, reading etc, but also I have never had that experience either where they have engaged me in conversation.

I think what Tom says about 'bleedthroughs' between different levels of reality is correct, it is a better way of saying reality breaks down. Perhaps it is the case that we get used to these local RTZs to such an extent that we have built a pretty good and stable picture of the environment within our consciousness.

When a bleedthorugh occurs it is perhaps easy to be fooled just to how much we are experiencing bleedthrough, thinking ourselves at first more in the familiar stable 'reality' than perhaps we really are, because it appears so accurate/familiar at first.

I am not sure I am understanding Frank correctly, but these bleedthroughs would appear to be peopled with other aspects of people that are no less valid than the parts you know in every day life. Part of me thinks I already know that, but maybe I have been thinking about these kinds of things for too long. It is possible to think yourself into some confusion such that you lose the little voice that knows what it knows.

[redcatherine]

While I definitely wouldn't claim to be a master, I have projected alot over the last 15 years. And while I am well accustomed to reality fluctuations while in my local RTZ, this is the first time that I have met and spoken to my wife, while being out. I have of course seen her regularly lying next to me when I do exit.This episode of meeting and talking to her, has thrown a spanner in the works, and made me question the validity of other OBE's that I've had.

I too regularly see people on my RTZs that are doing exactly what they were doing, sleeping, reading etc, but also I have never had that experience either where they have engaged me in conversation.
.

I do project my image to a mate overseas who is clairvoyant and i do talk to him during projections .He comes here and talks to me too . So yes , it is possible and it is harder to do which explains to me why you have not done this yet but now you can . It demonstrates growth in your abilities .

What we do is bi location . So we connect on the net then I project there and tell him what i see by typing it on the keyboard . I can project there to show him my full image or invisibly or just stay here and remote view with a partial projection of consciousness .

My mate  confirms what I see  or corrects it as i sometimes do give off a mirror image which is not uncommon in RTZ .  I can also hear him when he comes here without seeing the chat . When he talks to me here  he does not always recall everything  that this aspect tells me .I continue to stay conscious enough to type from my computer .

On one occasion I fully projected out and floated over my keyboard unable to move the keys as I did not have any consciousness aspect in my physical form .  So my control is not perfect either . I played with this trying to stay in the float over position for a while longer but this is hard to do once i see my body i often am drawn in . If I project a decent distance away from self and then look back i can see my energy body without being drawn back in . Experimentation is definitely a great way to learn .

Successes are exciting and peers are very validating and confirming .
. And I look forward to continued growth and confirmation by peers .
But there are frustrations that I am confronted with still :

I remain  frustrated with failure to split consciousness beyond 4 aspects at this time . Bi location is mastered tri is hard and 4 is nearly right out of my scope at this time .

I can project a full image but sometimes the feet fade away and often I am projecting in one solid colour or a monochromatic pattern of dark and light magenta tones . I wish to project in full colour and I know this is possible .

I am frustrated also with ability to be seen by all clairvoyant mates . We must modify our send and they must modify their receipt of energy in order to make a link .  I have a quite capable group of mates and we do try to appear to each other but we find that the best way to make sure the mate sees you is to arrange it in advance so they can be free from distractions and they can tune in . It is also easier to appear to them while they are asleep . When you arrive you can still experiment with confirmation by what you are able to see and where they are able to see your image .

When they are asleep you can send a pull to their toes with your energy hands that can be felt very well ! But I am frustrated with being able to project voice when they do not know i am coming still .

I am frustrated with inability to see past the big objects in the room . I can clearly see computers they are easy when they are on . I can see windows curtains doors and beds . Large pieces of furniture and animals are also easy to see . But I cannot see shoes or clothes lying on the floor or objects on a table . I certainly cannot see a numeral on a card lol .
But if your mate holds an object or warms it with their energy and then moves it near the projection time it can often be seen .

Also one object in my mates room cannot be seen and he will not tell me what it is lol . I see a dark rectangle on the left of the window . It is not curtains I can see them . It is not a mirror or a poster or a large highboy
either . Still trying to figure it out .

So yes you can do it , Well Done ! Keep it up and look to mates that can help you experiment to develop still .

[stephen~]

rc-

What a fascinating post, thank you very much. I do and can communicate, only

a) not ever in the RTZ in 16 years, and

b) When I do I have very good awareness and recall, only I haven't a clue who they really are!

And these are not of course in the same league as yours, meaning I am conscious but not in a experimental frame of mind at the time. My RTZs are, as I have stated here and elsewhere, pretty realistic, perhaps dull, and I do find them unrewarding in that nothing happens very much. Maybe I am stuck in an RTZ rut. I enjoy what are termed astral projections much more, but have fewer of them, but that's where communication happens for me.

I have experimented a little with online RV. I surprised myself with my results in that I did manage to draw cirlces in a pattern that was, If I remember rightly, an arrangement of crop circles (these were photos on a website) but perhaps the best hit I had was when I drifted slightly and saw elephants, rejected that as I thought the drift was making me make stuff up, I was expecting a bridge or a building and when I looked I saw it was elephants. So perhaps I do have some slight abilities in this bilocation area that I could improve on.

I really enjoyed your contribution (I don't want to contaminate your mind as to what the object by the window might be, let us know if you get it?)

Steve.

I'm kind of forgetting, there was an incident last year, not a spoken one, but where I saw someone in a projection and knew they were looking at me smiling, that the smile was for me. I felt very bad about this, that it was not a good sign and woke myself up.  It is kind of too personal/close to the event to talk about what happened then and later,  but this is one of only two times I can remember having a projection and experiencing someone communicate that I knew was doing something else...  So great, I just contradicted my earlier posts.