OBEs and AntiDepressants

[candy girl]

I have been experiencing obe symptoms for years now (without realising what they were) and only during the last 10 months or so have started to understand what is happening. Like you I would experience them at certain times of the day (almost always in the morning after a good nights sleep). 3 months ago I was prescribed an SSRI (prozac) and initially the projections seemed to stop. I thought I would have to wait until I came off the anti-depressants for the obe's to return. Well, I haven't had to wait, actually now I am having them more often than I used to before the medication. This is my experience, I know everyone reacts to things differently, but I think a lot if it is down to the power of suggestion. After just starting my medication I read that obe's can be inhibited by anti-depressants. I then thought I would have trouble having them but after forgetting about what I had read they seemed to "come back". Hope this may help, believe in what you can do.

[jason]

I used to be able to project once in a while,and used to have tons of spontaneous projections after I got robert monroe's technique to work...

but then severe social anxiety started to increase in severity,and it started to run/ruin my life.my mental health declined,and so did my obe abilitys.

then,a couple of years ago,I went on SSRI'S(effexor xr/clonazipam).

I've only had a couple of projections since then.that's about one a year[].

I do think that,for some reason,anti-depressants suppress the concious projection reflex.

...and I found out from my doctor that I'm probably going to be on meds LONG TERM.

this blows[!]

[manuel]

I have not had any experience with antidepressants, but from my observations, people seem to stop having OBE'S while on the use of such poisons, honestly, I only can laugh at the saw called western "medicine" if you can call it that, if it can cause such things like this, who knows what else this rubbish is doing.

[lifebreath]

Manuel -

Such "poisons" save people's lives and your ignorance blazes brightly ... Maybe you should join the Christian Science folks who let their kids die for stupid reasons, refusing to take them to such "western" doctors, relying instead upon occult scientific healing methods.

Granted that "western medicine" is far less than perfect ... as is just about everything else in this world. Granted that taken to the extreme, the medical industry would have people in ignorance and substitute a pill for every fluctuation of emotion of physical sensation.

At the other extreme, to cavalierly dismiss modern medicine - to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water - is to be just as far off the mark and as blinded by false idiology as the other end is by the desire for monetary profit.

STruBreg -

To your question, I have a theory. I believe that some of the chemical imbalances (and corresponding energy imbalances) that create emotional and mental disturbances also provide the mind with a "window" into other aspects of reality, much in the same way that LSD or other psychotropics do. When you "regulate" the imbalance via a drug like an SSRI, you mitigate the common root that gives rise to both the "unusual" experiences and the mood/mental disorder.

In order to function (i.e., hold a job, pay bills, etc.) in this physical realm and in our society, one needs a certain emotional and mental balance. SSRIs can and do provide that for many persons who are in need. Concurrently with the SSRI, I would encourage you to spend time meditating and connecting with your Higher Source (God, in whatever way you understand). I would suggest embarking on a serious study of your own being and energy pathways, mental processes, etc., to learn to bring balance and harmony through means other than the SSRI or other medications. In time, as you master your mental and emotional pathways, you may be able to leave the medicine behind. In other words, the SSRI can act as a "stop-gap" or bridge giving you the opportunity and time to gradually learn to balance yourself. And if you can't? Be grateful for the SSRI!

I would draw a kind of "reverse analogy:" LSD, mescaline and other substances can induce all sorts of experiences of a metaphysical nature, since they break down the natural structures of mind and perception that enable us to function in this plane. Obviously, if one were to continually be "tripping," they would not get along very well in carrying out the basic responsibilities of life! Also, in emotionally or mentally unbalanced people, such substances can induce grave dangers by unleasing energies within that the person has not learned through discipline to work with appropriately. Thus, a particular aspect of such energy may overwhelm the untrained mind and soul, giving rise to personified demons, attracting other negative energies and reeking emotional and mental havok.

So, my advice is to take your meds, enjoy the resulting clarity and peace, and work in a paced, disciplined and systematic way on your spritual, mental and emotional development! And don't worry too much about having OBE's - you can learn and develop plenty apart from them. Since you mention energy patterns, try learning some things about Sacred Geometry - I think you will enjoy seeing mathematically the patterns of creation that you have percieved naturally! Start off by looking at the seed pattern of a sunflower and the spirals in pine cones, then cut open an apple in a cross-section perpendicular to the core - viola! a pentagram, and more faintly, vestiges of a dodecahedron projected onto the plane ... Then look into the ratio Phi - the "golden ratio." You'll have plenty of fun.

So what if you never have another concious OBE in your life? OBEs don't make you a person with character, compassion and charity, and these are the virtues that remain with you as a diadem as you pass from this life into the next ... []

[Sam]

As a last resort in my search for a solution to my uncontrollable depression and anxiety illness, Efexor has begun to level out my moods to a point where they are acceptable and I feel a lot more sane and rational.  If meditation alone could have sorted out the probalem then I wouldn't have turned to antidepressants, but the sad truth is that I was a danger to myself.  No matter how much positive thinking I tried my mind wouldn't stop feeling helplessley depressed.  The lack of energy and motivation sapped my love of life and began to affect not only my ability to AP and meditate but random, uncontrollable moodswings wreaked havoc on my social life and led to me jumping from one job to the next, always on the edge of a nervous breakdown.

Since starting the effexor a month ago I have begun having lucid dreams and can feel my spiritual awareness improving.

[manuel]

My ignorance? I think not little one, perhaps you should do much more research into these medicines, sure there are stuff that helps and what not, but hell, I can guarantee there are many medical organizations who keep cures away from the populace, and hell, if such medications can alter ones ability to project, who knows what else it negative things it can do, and don’t give that "save lives" rubbish, these are just bodies nothing more nothing less, your higher self will NOT allow any thing to intefere in the higher selves chosen path, including premature death, this is not a go at people who use such medicines, it's just there are certain medicines that do more harm than good... oh look, this whole thread is sorta off topic now, any way, back to the subject at hand

[lifebreath]

When you can describe to me the p450 cytochrome metabolic pathways in detail, then we can talk further ...

[Matthew Kingsley]

You can have OBE's on SSRI's, at least I have. I use to take Paxil for a short
period of time and I had astral projections on it. During my withdrawal from
Paxil I experienced a rebound effect causing more out of body experiences. I
believe SSRI's to partially repress the ability. You described your OBE's as
a gift and it is. Although have you remembered yet when it all began and how
and why it began? I have and for me it began when I was first born. For the
first three years I was constantly out of body when asleep and doing things far
detached from physical affairs. We all were. The difference here is you and I
have maintained the essence ( maybe not the quality ) of our early projection
years. And have successfully brought projection into adulthood. Once the door
is opened it cannot be completely shut...ever. You will always have out of body
experiences..lucid dreams..false awakenings...degree's of trance state and so
on. If your concerned about losing your ability believe me you wont. You've
successfully brought it into adulthood and it will never really go away. Just
like you can't forget how to ride a bike after you've learned. If you really
want to kick depression and panic attacks begin jogging daily. Pace yourself
and work yourself up to 1 mile in the morning and a mile at night. Withdrawal
from your SSRI then and see how you feel. Exercise has been known to lift
depression. The exercise must be maintained for years to cure your depression.
You'll find yourself having the clearest out of body experiences from
exercising. As children we exercise a whole lot, running, playing and chasing
each other. Exercise is one of the biggest steps to achieve balance like we all
had as children, the exception here is that were aware of the mechanics of
projection unlike children are. And unlike I was when I was a toddler running
around the real-time zone...sticking my head though the wall to laugh at someone
in the other room and then giggling as a chase around my friends at the daycare
at nap time. All while in the real time zone. It will all come back to you
with exercise.

Matthew Kingsley
winterman@vif.ca

[Mustardseed]

Sounds like you are out of your depth Manuel, and that Lifebreath knows her stuf

[STruBreg]

Thanks to everyone for your ideas on the SSRI and OBE compatibility issue.  I’m pleased to report firsthand that such compatibility exists, as I have had 3 successful experiences over the past several days.
I think the main barriers to continuing with OBEs after starting anti-depressants were both mental and physical in origin.  I am hypothesizing that the brain needs to have a consistent level of chemicals; whether that level is high, normal, or low does not really matter, as long as it is consistent.  In my case, I lived with depression for a long time, had astral experiences routinely, and then lost both the depression and the astral experiences during long-term use of SSRIs.  I have now titrated the SSRI down to the lowest effective dose and have added 30mg of 5-HTP at mid-afternoon (not sure if 5-HTP is effectual though, still studying and open to opinions).  The OBEs have returned.  There is also a most definite mental barrier that must be overcome.  I think lifebreath is right on all the way on this topic and gave me a useful window to open; upon recognizing that the SSRI would quite possibly be indefinitely necessary to this life I accepted that I may, as a result of the medication, never have another astral experience, The acceptance of the situation and the release of the attachment and longing to experience out-of-body events in itself cleared the way.  I have also taken Matthews advice and started exercising; it is wonderful to know that others have experienced the miracle,
My own advise on this topic:  1) SSRIs are important lifesaving meds; don’t disparage them or those who need to use them; if the med works, use it.  2) Do not tinker with doses or quit SSRIs without medical supervision.  I like using the least effective dose, but that might not be right for everyone. 3) OBEs are compatible with SSRIs, absolutely; many here have proven it and I can now affirm it myself.
Love & Peace
[]

[Kazbadan]

You have depression since almost your entire life! Thats terrible and that scares me because i have severe depression too since young ( i have 24) and that means that there is no cure! My depression was not diagnosticated by anyone (i didnt went to any doctor) but i am sure of the depression level that i have reached. There was times in wich my life was at risk...and even now i feel myself in a very very degenarated state of mind. Is an horrible sensation that does not want to leave.

So, saying this i have some questions:
1- Is there any cure to depression (sorry the off topic question)? I know that there is a cronical depression. And that means that you will have the depression for the entire life.

2- I think that my depresion is sttoping me of gettinf Obes and i dont know way. I never had an obe before but i feel that depression is now the ultimate barrier. Could it be possible? What can i do to avoid that?

3- Is there any suicidal danger in obing? I mean, sometimes i am so depressed ( and i mean really depressed) that i am afraid to commit any stupid thing if i obe. I am afraid of getting skyzoprhenic (dont know to write the word...the dictionary does not have it, but i am refering to the mental desease that sound like the same). I dont have any big psyco problems only the depression but i am afraid of that, since i feel my mind very fragile. I must say too that i only have this stupid idea only when i am very depressed and thinking in obes.  When i am more normal (i mean, depression not attacking me very strong) i dont have any fear in obes.

4- I dont want use obes as an anti-depressant ( i have other objectives) but i would like to know if when obing the deprression sensation vanishes (like if using an antidepressant) or if will grow up (and this is related with question 3).

thanks

[alpine9]

kazbadan,

NEW' will definitly life you spirits and at the same time increase your abilitiy to OBE.

[Kazbadan]

Whats NEW? Are talking about New Energies from Robert Bruce?!

[Hannah b]

Hi,
I took prozac for a year. Yes, all my problems were gone with a snap of a finger. My obe dissapeared completely. I was mrs. perfect for a year until I noticed that I've become a totally emotionless person. I didn't want to cheat myself anymore. My soul was trying to say to me and i made it shut up, by swallowing a mirracle pill every morning. I quit the drug. I'm not a machine. My body and soul communicates with me and I should do my best to try to hear the calls  . My depression came back imedieately, I started doing regular psychotherapy, which has helped me a lot with the other problem I was battling with. I'm always depressed, but now I know why. Thanks to spiritual development and psychotherapy I am more aware of myself. I don't want to walk through life blind with a smile on my face and a pill between my teeth..( for which there are still no known long term side effects by the way..)...
I'd rather be depressed, but walk through life conciously.

this is my story.

Manuel, I totally agree with your point of view.

Lifebreath - hmmm...did you give your ego a good boost by asking Manuel to describe p450 cytochrome metabolic pathways in detail?? well, that's exactly what it seems like...quite sad, that such spiritual and inteligent people, can't handle a regular conversation, but instead they try to show off their power in such an infantile way..my son uses the same trick in kindergarden..
too bad, because the topic " lies of medical organizations ( and many others)" is a very ineresting one. Of course only to those who are aware of the fact that some people might have different points of views and different beliefs, and that this word is not only black and white, and has many other shades that are being hidden from us.
the first one 9nexus) is my absolute number 1.
Check it out Lifebreath, I'm sure you'll find someone in these sites to talk to about p450 cytochrome metabolic pathways ( in detail) , since probably most of us are not worthy...( myself included).

http://www.nexusmagazine.com
http://www.stopshrinks.org/reading_room/frame_docs/outstand.html
http://www.medicine-book.com/Your_Drug_May_Be_Your_Problem_How_and_Why_to_Stop_Taking_Psychiatric_Medications_0738203483.html
http://www.breggin.com/ritalin.html
http://www.namiscc.org/News/2002/Summer/NoMiracleDrug.htm


I found this on the Psyhic defence forum. it's about schizophrenia...but is also related to depression in away..

from kiauma..(btw..many thanks)

Bottom line, how you explain these experiences is tied directly to the paradime of your perception, whether spiritual, mental, or physical.  There is a growing underground psychological movement to identify these experiences of fragmentation and eventual larger integration of the self as part of a natural human process.  Unfortunately, the insurance industry, which largely controls the psychological industry in America, sees no need to spend the necessary money on the 'care' and understanding required to see the process through, when some cheap pills can seemingly make the 'symptoms' magically go away.

Here are some more sites:
http://www.global-vision.org/interview/perry.html
http://members.tripod.com/more_couteau/psychosis.htm
http://www.virtualcs.com/se/experiences.html
http://www.global-vision.org/dream/index.html
http://www.jungcircle.com/roberts2.html
http://www.gurdjieff.org/

[shaman]

Recently some psychologist have come with a natural way to get rid of depression, much more effective than medication or conventional psychotherapy (psychoanalysis, etc...). These are psychologist who have wandered in the Far East and have learned to meditate. There are at least a few psychologists who use meditation as a therapy to treat many psychological conditions (such as depression, phobia, fears, ...) with much more sucess than with medication and conventional therapy. At this "price" meditation will for sure also lead you to OBE/AP, as OBE is a "by product" of meditation. So you should be able to say "good bye" to prosiac and all these chemicals, once you have started the practice of meditation. The only two names I have here of such  psychologists are:

Daniel Goleman (see the book corner forum at the bottom of the forum list on astral pulse, I  posted on that one).

&

Stephan Bodian (I think I also wrote a note in the astral library about that one).

There are other antidepressants which are more natural and less strong such as St John Wort plant and roots of Valerian. There are herbs that can be used and have been used by physcians (and are still used by many).