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Author Topic: Astral danger  (Read 5380 times)
Frank
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« on: April 07, 2002, 07:20:06 »


In my hundreds of true-Astral experiences never once did I come across an entity that bore malice. Quite the opposite in fact.

Please understand that the Astral is merely energy which you perceive with your senses. I firmly believe that your Astral experiences are distorted by the "slant" that we tend to place on our sense of perception.

An example of this, on the physical plane, would be to take a half-full container. Personally, I would always see it as half full. But there are those who would habitually think the opposite, and there are those who would see things either way depending on what was in the container. Smiley

That is not to say you will never had a scary experience. Sure, you will have lots of those! But it will only feel scary because you are viewing something that looks SO unfamiliar. Like, for example, the first time I travelled in an underwater region. Convincing my sense of consciousness that it was okay took quite a lot of effort!!!

However, you do need to realise there is a base Astral region that exists somewhere between a Lucid Dream and the Astral proper. It is an area I became fully familiar with due to my having been "trapped" there for about 5 years. I call it the "training ground" or zone. This is the place where Dragons are fought and Demons are slain. Smiley

Basically, in the training zone, your thoughts are played back to you on what I call a 360 degree bubble-screen. I posted information on this a couple of weeks ago to another thread. So you should be able to dig that out. In the training zone, whatever you basically believe or think, instant by instant, will be immediately played back to you in glorious technicolour. Myself I spent 5 years slaying dragons, breathing fire, fighting wars, dealing with demonic entities, etc., etc. (I had a rather turbulent upbringing!)

The reason why I called it the training zone is because what this region serves to teach you, ultimately, is that what we human-beings call "thought" is actually a primary energy. So the vibrational purity of your thoughts determines your Astral experiences.

You see, on the Astral, it is impossible to "spoil anyone's party" as you can only perceive regions that strike a harmony with your own vibrational energy.

I have also had experiences, particularly early on in my travels, that I call training-ground buffer experiences. These are where I might have got a little fearful for an instant and you find yourself sort of halfway in the training zone and halfway in the Astral proper. It's like on the one side of you is looming some demonic entity that is set to justify your fear... and on the other side is what remains of the Astral scenery you were experiencing.

Another little pitfall that can catch you out, is you now and again come across what I call "scamps". Scamps are these friendly and often very humourous (but secretly devilish) creatures who can scan your thoughts for trace vibrational impurities (fear, anger, malice, and such like) and latch onto them.

They have the ability to feed off this energy and they use it to fuel what I call their "little party trick"; which is to distort their form (or distort the form of something around you) in order to trick you into perceiving they are something much more sinister than they really are. They often catch you out!

The key to dealing with scamps is to just be calm and neutral. Hence, the trace energy they are feeding off is soon used up. At which point the facade fades away and the creature normally beats a hasty retreat.

Personally, I feel a lot more safe on the Astral than I do on the physical these days. Smiley

Yours,
Frank



Edited by - Frank on 07 April 2002  13:07:47
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Vallk
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2002, 14:29:30 »

Thank you very much Frank for the information. You reinforced my will of going in the astral. The more I know about all those phenomenons the more I'll prepare my mind to face what I can expect.

I understand that CONTROL of my emotions is the key. I'll work on that.
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2002, 14:29:30 »

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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2002, 17:58:37 »

Remember that anything "evil" you encounter will be a dweller of lower regions and you have much more power and energy in you than it will ever have.

 
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Frank
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2002, 11:03:16 »

quote:

Thank you very much Frank for the information. You reinforced my will of going in the astral. The more I know about all those phenomenons the more I'll prepare my mind to face what I can expect.

I understand that CONTROL of my emotions is the key. I'll work on that.



Please understand and always bear in mind that "thought" is a primary energy.

You don't feel it so much on the Physical plane. That is because, on the Physical, there is a major physical interface (i.e. your body) between your thoughts and the creation and/or outcome aspect. A simple example is you might suddenly think, "Oh, I forgot to buy some bread, right, I'll nip to the shops and get some."

What I am saying is, you cannot actually manifest the bread that you are thinking about. Such that it instantly appears before you in your kitchen. You have to physically go and buy it.

Another example is you might think badly of someone and get a little angry when you think of how they snubbed you, say. Then an hour later you might smile to yourself and think of how daft you were to ever think such a thing, and just forget it.    

Alright, I fully accept you might think that is obvious. Yes, it is obvious because that is what we are all used to doing. However, the Astral is very different... and there lies the problem.

The sense of conscious awareness that you take with you to the Astral is not some fantastic Astral sense of conscious awareness... no... it is exactly the same sense of conscious awareness that you have, right now, within you.    

BIG problem being, your mind has been subject to years of Physical-plane conditioning!

On the Astral, for example, you are not subject to gravity. Which means you can simply take off and fly like a bird. But your sense of conscious awareness has had no previous experience of any such ability. Moreover, it could well even hinder your progress by refusing to believe such a thing is possible. What you have to do, therefore, is to gently retrain your thoughts and coax your mind, 1) to encompass the whole idea, and 2) coax it into accepting the sensations. Once you have done those two things, you can then go on to practise developing the necessary skills that will allow you, eventually, to fly comfortably and gracefully, and to land with accuracy.  

The way you fly on the Astral is to merely "think" about flying and you WILL fly. But on the Physical, you can "think" about flying alright; but in order to actually get in the air you need some kind of physical device, i.e. an aircraft of some kind, that will enable you to do so.

On the Astral, however, there is no such need for any "physical device" at all. Which is a bit mind-blowing at first. You see, on the Astral, as you "think" it automatically and instantly comes about!

On the Physical, we have these notions of "like attracts like" and "what goes around comes around" and so forth. But a life of debauchery may take decades before it catches up with you. On the Astral, however, it catches up with you instantly.

That is why control of your thoughts is doubly essential. Not so much control of your emotions. Yes, controlling your emotions is important. But if you keep your thoughts in check, then your emotions will automatically remain in check. That is because thought is the primary energy.

On the Physical we have this notion of "killing two birds with one stone". The same basic principle applies here, in the sense that if you concentrate solely on controlling thoughts, then emotions will automatically be kept under the necessary degree of control too. But if you concentrate mainly on controlling your emotions, then you will also have to juggle at keeping your thoughts in check.

As I say, the simple reason is because "thought" is the primary energy. Which means it is your thoughts that both determine and direct your Astral experiences.

Because of this, you can actually use the Astral in order to enact any fantasy of your choosing. Which is what a number of people seem to enjoy doing. I can well see the attraction, as there is NO LIMIT to what you can experience. The only "limit" as such is the limit of any one person's imagination.

If slaying Dragons is your thing, then Dragons will be heaped on you by the plane-load. Conversely, if you would like to sit amongst Angels then you will be fed Angels galore until you get sick of the sight of them.  

But if, like me, you want to journey to discover the Astral and to find out more about what goes on there; and to maybe get some answers to the questions about the origins of life, and so forth... you have to direct your thoughts accordingly.

Which is why, I always say, the best kind of "thought" to hold in mind, in order to open up that discovery gateway, is to hold an air of mild curiosity.

HTH

Yours,
Frank

 
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Vallk
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2002, 11:23:46 »

Wow. Thank you Frank!

I think I really understand now. I think I will practice this in my everday life. I am sure it can help because not having had my first OBE yet I can only think it must be pretty hard not to think "God!What the hell is that?!?!" in front of a strange creature or think how frightened what I am seeing make me feel.

I am happy too to be able to prepare before experiencing an OBE. I think everyone should do so because what we "expect" is less surprising when we see it.

It is great to be able to get advices and information from experienced people. Thank you.
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2002, 11:23:46 »



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Vallk
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2002, 11:30:22 »

But  let's say I am able to control my thoughts well enough, but that once I just can't. I am totally scared. The creature knows it of course.

I read that the worst thing that can happen is that I wake up very tired, the creature having drained some of my energy. Is it so? Is it really the worst that can happen?

What about those creatures attached to some people feeding of their energy? Would they do that even though the victim had not visited the Astral? In other words, can the visits in the Astral "provoke" such things or everyone can have this problem without necessarily knowing it?
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Scott
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2002, 12:32:02 »

quote:


In my hundreds of true-Astral experiences never once did I come across an entity that bore malice. Quite the opposite in fact.

Please understand that the Astral is merely energy which you perceive with your senses. I firmly believe that your Astral experiences are distorted by the "slant" that we tend to place on our sense of perception.

An example of this, on the physical plane, would be to take a half-full container. Personally, I would always see it as half full. But there are those who would habitually think the opposite, and there are those who would see things either way depending on what was in the container. Smiley

That is not to say you will never had a scary experience. Sure, you will have lots of those! But it will only feel scary because you are viewing something that looks SO unfamiliar. Like, for example, the first time I travelled in an underwater region. Convincing my sense of consciousness that it was okay took quite a lot of effort!!!

However, you do need to realise there is a base Astral region that exists somewhere between a Lucid Dream and the Astral proper. It is an area I became fully familiar with due to my having been "trapped" there for about 5 years. I call it the "training ground" or zone. This is the place where Dragons are fought and Demons are slain. Smiley

Basically, in the training zone, your thoughts are played back to you on what I call a 360 degree bubble-screen. I posted information on this a couple of weeks ago to another thread. So you should be able to dig that out. In the training zone, whatever you basically believe or think, instant by instant, will be immediately played back to you in glorious technicolour. Myself I spent 5 years slaying dragons, breathing fire, fighting wars, dealing with demonic entities, etc., etc. (I had a rather turbulent upbringing!)

The reason why I called it the training zone is because what this region serves to teach you, ultimately, is that what we human-beings call "thought" is actually a primary energy. So the vibrational purity of your thoughts determines your Astral experiences.

You see, on the Astral, it is impossible to "spoil anyone's party" as you can only perceive regions that strike a harmony with your own vibrational energy.

I have also had experiences, particularly early on in my travels, that I call training-ground buffer experiences. These are where I might have got a little fearful for an instant and you find yourself sort of halfway in the training zone and halfway in the Astral proper. It's like on the one side of you is looming some demonic entity that is set to justify your fear... and on the other side is what remains of the Astral scenery you were experiencing.

Another little pitfall that can catch you out, is you now and again come across what I call "scamps". Scamps are these friendly and often very humourous (but secretly devilish) creatures who can scan your thoughts for trace vibrational impurities (fear, anger, malice, and such like) and latch onto them.

They have the ability to feed off this energy and they use it to fuel what I call their "little party trick"; which is to distort their form (or distort the form of something around you) in order to trick you into perceiving they are something much more sinister than they really are. They often catch you out!

The key to dealing with scamps is to just be calm and neutral. Hence, the trace energy they are feeding off is soon used up. At which point the facade fades away and the creature normally beats a hasty retreat.

Personally, I feel a lot more safe on the Astral than I do on the physical these days. Smiley

Yours,
Frank



Edited by - Frank on 07 April 2002  13:07:47



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Scott
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2002, 12:38:43 »

Hi Frank,
You had responded to my amazing astral projection entry and I was interested in finding out more about the buffer zone that you mentioned. I have only had one projection and I have been trying to repeat the experience without success since nov. 2001. In my projection I had to face two demonic intities disguised as saints, which I incinerated with fire from my hands. Is this the buffer zone that you refered to. Also, I felt that I was being directed during my experience. Do you have any info on this.
Thanks
Scott

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Frank
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2002, 17:27:09 »

quote:

But  let's say I am able to control my thoughts well enough, but that once I just can't. I am totally scared. The creature knows it of course.

I read that the worst thing that can happen is that I wake up very tired, the creature having drained some of my energy. Is it so? Is it really the worst that can happen?

What about those creatures attached to some people feeding of their energy? Would they do that even though the victim had not visited the Astral? In other words, can the visits in the Astral "provoke" such things or everyone can have this problem without necessarily knowing it?





The "creature" (as you call it) is nothing more than a visual manifestation of your own fear! That is merely formed from *your* thought energy.

Please listen carefully...

On the Physical you can think badly of someone because maybe they snubbed you... and an hour or so later you can simply shrug it off. No harm has come to anyone, nothing has happened. You just got in a bit of a mood, exactly like ALL of us do sometimes, including me, and that is that.

Now, when you are on the Astral you get to realise that "thought" is a primary energy.

Within the Astral there is no "physical buffer" simply because you are NOT on the Physical anymore! As such, everything you think instantly forms around you. But try telling your sense of consciousness that. It won't listen (at first) because the sense of consciousness you bring with you is the SAME as you have right now on the Physical.  

All this "instantaneous thought" stuff is nowhere near so obvious on the Physical... but that's precisely what your sense of consciousness is used to dealing with!

On the Astral you need first to realise what the "rules" are, and to teach your sense of consciousness to deal with them accordingly. Which obviously takes time.

Look, I've been travelling the Astral (proper) well over 10 years and still get "caught out" many times. There's no shame in that. The Astral is just SO immense and SO different that no-one can possibly prepare you for the delightful mix of "wonder and fear" you will come across the first 10 or 20 times you project.
 
Yours,
Frank



 
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Frank
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2002, 17:31:19 »

quote:

Hi Frank,
You had responded to my amazing astral projection entry and I was interested in finding out more about the buffer zone that you mentioned. I have only had one projection and I have been trying to repeat the experience without success since nov. 2001. In my projection I had to face two demonic intities disguised as saints, which I incinerated with fire from my hands. Is this the buffer zone that you refered to. Also, I felt that I was being directed during my experience. Do you have any info on this.
Thanks
Scott

Scott Thompson




The lower Astral region is an area where emotional interplay is the primary pastime. As such, I would suggest the reason why you felt that you were being "directed" is because it would have been your *own* sub-conscious mind that was doing the "directing". The fact you can pick that up tells me your projection instincts are developing to the point where you can soon learn to bring them within your conscious control.

Yours,
Frank



Edited by - Frank on 08 April 2002  19:47:43
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Vallk
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2002, 20:57:02 »

Hi Frank,

Thank you for trying so hard to make me understand how it works in the astral. I do understand the thought issue, but your message gave me the impression that every encounter - good or bad, is created by one's thoughts.

If you could help me complete correctly this list, it would help me. I think my reason demands very clear classification of every living encounters one can meet in the astral. I don't know if it is that important but I want to know.

There would be :

1. Other projectors -real
2. Inhabitants of the astral - real (dead people, etc.)
3. Encounters totally created by the subconscious - not real (Alice Wonderland)
4. Encounters created (or attracted?) by one's thought - not real (like your dragons)
 
What do you think Frank? Am I close to the truth?

Thank you again for your help.
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Frank
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« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2002, 12:08:46 »

quote:

Hi Frank,

Thank you for trying so hard to make me understand how it works in the astral. I do understand the thought issue, but your message gave me the impression that every encounter - good or bad, is created by one's thoughts.

If you could help me complete correctly this list, it would help me. I think my reason demands very clear classification of every living encounters one can meet in the astral. I don't know if it is that important but I want to know.

There would be :

1. Other projectors -real
2. Inhabitants of the astral - real (dead people, etc.)
3. Encounters totally created by the subconscious - not real (Alice Wonderland)
4. Encounters created (or attracted?) by one's thought - not real (like your dragons)
 
What do you think Frank? Am I close to the truth?

Thank you again for your help.




Yes, you are getting the hang of it.

First, I am sorry that my explanation has caused a little confusion. I have only been interacting with people on this topic a short while and I, for a moment, forgot to take account of the fact you have not yet managed to project. Against the context of that, I see my response could be taken that I was in some way trying to make out everything someone experienced on the Astral was solely a manifestation of their own thoughts... which is definitely NOT the case.

I found one of the biggest challenges you face on the Astral is trying to differentiate between, 1) images you are seeing as a result of your own emotions... and, 2) images of the Astral proper.

Okay, call me thick but it is something that took me 5 years to work out. In doing so, I learnt a lot about what's what, and the major pitfalls where beginners can get trapped. Plus, as I say, you do come across entities I call "Scamps" that can easily catch you out.

As an aside: an example of what I believe almost certainly was a Scamp, is detailed in another thread. The poster (Jeffrey) said, ".....went back outside where a 6 inch silver colored ball that looked like weightless mercury was floating around. I grabbed it and it turned into a crab."

You see, all Scamps have what I call their "little party trick". Their objective is to trick you into becoming emotional. They can then feed from this energy and use it to make themselves (or some form) appear bigger or more powerful that they really are.  

The images of the Astral proper can be interwoven with images that you are generating from your emotions. This effect can happen at any part of your Astral experience. There are no borders beween the two sets of images. You can be completely immersed in what I call the Training-Ground; or you can be completely immersed in the Astral; or you can be immersed in what I term a Buffer-Zone experience... where you are not fully in one or the other. (Incidentaly, it was from having Buffer-Zone experiences that I managed to make some kind of sense of it all.) And if that were not confusing enough, the actual extent to which you are "in one or the other" can vary on an instant-by-instant basis.  

That is why, when you read accounts of people's early obe experiences, they often flip from one scene to the next. Like the one Scott posted just recently. One instant he's in one place and experiencing one set of circumstances; next instant he's somewhere totally different, experiencing something else, and so on. What tricks you, is the strong tendency to believe that your thought patterns and emotions are changing as the scenary changes. No, it's the other way around.    

Familiarity with the Astral, helps you to build a degree of experience thus avoid some of the more major pitfalls. In turn, this will have the welcome effect of adding a degree of stability to your Astral journeys.  

The images you create are created from your emotions. Your emotions are primarily determined by your thoughts. The emotion of Fear is a very common emotion to have on the Astral. This is because much of what you see will be SO different from what you see on the physical. But don't get me wrong, I have come across Astral regions where what I was seeing was completely and utterly earth-like.

As I say, the sense of consciousness you have with you on the Astral is exactly the same as the sense of consciousness you have with you on the Physical.

Okay, so imagine you went for a country walk on the Physical. You estimated the time wrongly and the light is fading. Before you know it you are making your way through woodland in the dark. But it's a familiar path and there isn't all that far to go. It's a full moon, the sky is clear, giving just enough light for you to see by.

Suddenly you hear the snap of a twig. "Was that me?" you ask yourself, and stand still wondering. Then you hear a rustle of leaves. Perhaps an animal is stalking you? So you stand rigid, slightly fearful, listening intently. Next moment you laugh and think, "No, it's just me being silly!" and carry on walking. You get home safely and forget the whole thing.  

Now imagine that exact same scene, but it's all happening in the Astral. Which is perfectly possible. For in the Astral, while there are all kinds of weird and wonderful places, you can engage in basic activities as well. Such as, go for country walks, climb rocks, swim rivers, stand by the ocean, etc.

However, difference being, on the Astral, the very moment you felt that mild emotion of fear... some image, or other circumstance, would have come about in order to justify that same level of fear.

Please note: From my experience, it makes no difference to think whether you attracted the image, or whether you created it. It's just a different way of looking at the same thing.

If you were mildly fearful, then you would instantly have a mildly fearful experience. However, mild levels of emotion often lead to an Astral buffer-experience. Here you will find the circumstance that came about from your emotion, becomes entwined with the existing Astral scenery.

The reason why the intensity is precisely matched to the intensity of your emotion, is simply because it is your emotion that is fuelling it. In the same sense, if you set light to a thimble full of gasoline, you get a tiny whoosh of flame. Set light to a 50 gallon drum... and you have a major fire on your hands.

What usually follows, is your sense of conscious awareness - upon being met by the mildly fearful experience - panics and immediately says to you: "RUN LIKE HELL... GET OUT OF HERE".

You had a little flame, and rather than let it burn out of its own accord, you just used it to set light to 50 gallons of gas.

An instant before, you were enjoying a quiet Astral stroll. Now you are surrounded by evil monsters. There's no escape. The leader has fangs the height of a house, and they are just inches away from crushing your face. Next instant you are back in the physical, shaking and sweating. Immediately you get up and start touching all the furniture and walls, double-checking that you truly are back.

Big problem is, many people get locked into having these experiences. What they fail to fathom is that they, themselves, are creating the whole episode. The experiences *are* very real and it is only natural for them to think they are being picked-on by demons, and such like.

Yours,
Frank






Edited by - Frank on 09 April 2002  14:20:07
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Vallk
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« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2002, 14:40:41 »

Hello Frank,

You say "Big problem is, many people get locked into having these experiences. What they fail to fathom is that they, themselves, are creating the whole episode. The experiences *are* very real and it is only natural for them to think they are being picked-on by demons, and such like. "

It is exactly why I need to know all you explained.
Thank you very much.
This was all really helpful to me.
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2002, 20:18:40 »

Frank that is one of the best explanations I have ever heard.  I must admit that I have been trying to have OBE for 6 years.  In that time I have had several OBE but I can never repeat them.  I must have developed some hidden fears in regaurds to it.  How can one over come them?  Have you ever gone into real time zone and met with someone and asked there subconscious what is holding them back?  Do you think it is possible to do that?  If it is possible would consider doing it for someone.  I know it is alot to ask even if it is possible but really I have tried everything.  


DOA

 
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2002, 10:50:20 »

quote:

Frank that is one of the best explanations I have ever heard.  I must admit that I have been trying to have OBE for 6 years.  In that time I have had several OBE but I can never repeat them.  I must have developed some hidden fears in regaurds to it.  How can one over come them?  Have you ever gone into real time zone and met with someone and asked there subconscious what is holding them back?  Do you think it is possible to do that?  If it is possible would consider doing it for someone.  I know it is alot to ask even if it is possible but really I have tried everything.  


DOA

 




Something that I have found helpful which you might too is to think about astral projection throughout the day, every day. Don't think about any negativity with it but just think about projecting with a positive attitude. More than just thinking about it, believe in it. Believe you can do it, believe that astral projection is a positive thing. Believe there is nothing to be afraid of. Also read as much as you can on the subject, preferably something that looks at it in a very positive way. By doing this everyday you should be able to instill in yourself that projecting is possible (because your lack of success maybe that deep down you have feelings that you cannot project rather than fear of doing it), that you can project, and that there is nothing to fear. The idea is that if you tell yourself something enough times you start to believe it. This should work itself down into your subconcious to get rid of any of those doubts and fears and prepare yourself and mind for projecting. I find I have a lot more success if I think and read alot about projecting for several days while I am trying to project.

 
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Alice had got so much into the way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, that it seemed quite dull and stupid for life to go on in the common way.
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« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2002, 13:28:55 »


quote:

Frank that is one of the best explanations I have ever heard.  I must admit that I have been trying to have OBE for 6 years.  In that time I have had several OBE but I can never repeat them.  I must have developed some hidden fears in regaurds to it.  How can one over come them?  Have you ever gone into real time zone and met with someone and asked there subconscious what is holding them back?  Do you think it is possible to do that?  If it is possible would consider doing it for someone.  I know it is alot to ask even if it is possible but really I have tried everything.  

DOA
 




Developing the ability to have a conscious-exit obe is VERY tricky. It's a bit of a mental balancing act that takes practice. If someone asked me, "Frank, what are the 3 most important things I should do to have an obe?" I would instantly answer, 1) practice, 2) practice, and 3) practice.

What fallnangel77 says is so very true. With me, hardly a minute goes by where I'm not thinking about the Astral. My whole waking consciousness is flooded with Astral images, sounds, ideas. Plus, there's all the on-going thoughts I have about finding solutions to problems, working out how to understand things, how to better deal with tricky situations, etc., etc.  
 
As for the real-time zone I only learnt how to enter this region fairly recently. Virtually all my 20-odd years of experience is on the Astral. To be honest, I found the real-time zone a bit of a let-down. Yes, it was surreal looking at myself and my wife lying there asleep on our bed... which did make me giggle quite a lot. Walking through the bedroom door without opening it first, was quite strange. So too was entering the kitchen via the ceiling. But the novelty soon wore off. After all, I'm in that area all the time in the physical.  

The Astral is a *much* more exciting place.

Realise you *will* have regular scary moments so you have to learn to deal with them. The best way is to practise controlling your emotions on the physical. Become a person who just does not get uptight about anything, even to the slightest degree. Practice remaining calm and neutral.

Also, be pure in your thoughts. Speak kindly of people as often as you can. That's not to say you shouldn't speak your mind, or you let yourself get taken for some mug. No, there are kind ways and polite ways of going about all things. Always think about a person's positive qualities, including yourself. Go about your business with thoroughness, always use good manners, etc.

Take walks in the countryside, alone, especially in the wind and rain. Be at one with the elements. Look up at the clear night sky and imagine flying to the stars (you will be able to do that one day!). Go to the ocean and see the gulls swooping from a great height and skimming the water (you'll be able to do that too, with the very same degree of conscious awareness you have when reading this).

The reason why I say these things is because "your problem" as such, I very much doubt is in the subconscious. It will be your waking consciousness that needs clearing of some problem. With a little work you should be able to clear it away.  

Being at one with the elements, enjoying nature and appreciating the beauty of the earth is something I feel is important. Don't get me wrong, you don't have to go around hugging trees, or anything. But successful projection requires a kind of mental stillness that seems to harmonise with nature.  

Yours,
Frank


 
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travrai blue robes
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« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2002, 16:39:17 »

inspiring stuff Frank. you validate many of the things I believed about life and the astral but haven't had the chance to explore yet. I know I'm going to have quite a storm to weather in the 'training grounds' when I really get going, but understanding that it's worth it for the growth that comes of it helps.

 
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« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2002, 16:49:00 »

Thanks for the advice.  I am not sure how much it helped but I will try anything.  What about home life marital problems kids and that stuff how much does that affect your ability to project



 
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2002, 10:28:10 »

quote:

Thanks for the advice.  I am not sure how much it helped but I will try anything.  What about home life marital problems kids and that stuff how much does that affect your ability to project




The kind of life you lead on the Physical very much affects your ability to project.

Please realise there are aspects of Physical life that can definitely encourage projection and there are aspects that very much discourage it.

Obviously, the kind of life you choose to lead is absolutely your business. It is not my place to either interfere with your life, or start dictating to anyone what they can or cannot do. I just want to make that clear because it is *so* easy get misunderstood in these forums!    

The big stumbling block, I feel people have, from my interaction with this BBS, is achieving the correct degree of mental stillness.

I feel people concentrate too much on the physical aspects. Like finding the right "method" and researching websites, reading books, etc. Yes, that is a good thing. I'm all for that, so no-one please get me wrong. But it is a fact that having knowledge *in itself* is not what makes you project.

There are many people on this BBS with *so* much more knowledge about projection than I perhaps will ever have. Yet they, themselves, still cannot actually project. Not only that, people are starting to email me asking for my opinion on so-and-so tapes, or this and that technique, etc., and I have to admit that I've got no idea. Because virtually all my Astral research takes place on the Astral, not on the physical.
 
Years ago, when I was learning what to do, many methods I tried would mention about getting rid of "stray thoughts". Something which I found darned difficult. So what I did was begin to look at the problem from the other way up. My mind was a mass of stray thoughts all flitting here and there. So I began to pick out these thoughts as they were flitting through my consciousness and I'd analyse them. I'd mentally grab hold of one and ask: What are you, and why are you there?

What I found was, many of these thoughts I could eliminate by simply being a calmer, quieter person. Like, there would be times when I'd set my heart on being able to get something at a particular time. On the way there might be a delay, such as a traffic-jam. By the time I got there the shop might be closed, and so forth. Things like that would wind me up. Not to any major extent, don't get me wrong. But I found there was an *accumulative* effect to all this which ultimately resulted in 99% of all the stray thoughts flitting through my mind!

Many stray thoughts would turn out to be lyrics and beats from pop music I'd been listening to that day. So, rather than listening to that, I started to try and learn to appreciate the classics. Which was amazing because properly listening to a solo violin for the first time had a deep emotional impact. Quite why I don't know, and I still don't know to this day. But I found that when listening to certain classical pieces, my mind would just gently float along with it.    

So all this inner study sparked off an interest in looking at every area of my life, and seeing whether it could be improved in any way so as free up my mind.

Yours,
Frank

 
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2002, 11:40:44 »

Frank,

Your explanation of your experiences are gratefully received.
Fantastic.
I have had a few real time obes and one in particular, i commanded myself from the ceiling of my house, to return to tell my partner.
As soon as i thought this, i returned, then spoke to him.  He answered me.

What appeared strange, was that i didnt wake first, was all one process.
Ever experienced this? or know what it may be?

Paola. (alfa)
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2002, 13:44:28 »

Argh! I just wrote a whole bunch and when I went to send it I got an error. Then when I came back all that I wrote was gone. Oh well. I will comment on one thing since I do not have the time to rewrite everything right now.

I have recently found the same thing with music as Frank. Most of my distractions are lyrics from rock, pop, etc. music. I have started listening more to intrumental music or no music at all and just listen to my quite surroundings. If you are having problems with distracting thoughts then you might try changing your music for a while.

 
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Alice had got so much into the way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, that it seemed quite dull and stupid for life to go on in the common way.
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2002, 17:54:29 »

quote:

Frank,

Your explanation of your experiences are gratefully received.
Fantastic.
I have had a few real time obes and one in particular, i commanded myself from the ceiling of my house, to return to tell my partner.
As soon as i thought this, i returned, then spoke to him.  He answered me.

What appeared strange, was that i didnt wake first, was all one process.
Ever experienced this? or know what it may be?

Paola. (alfa)



Yes I have just recently experienced something similar with my wife. First, I do believe that is is possible to communicate with a sleeping person's subconcious. I suppose the level of success will very much depend on circumstances. Myself, I have often wondered about trying to contact my wife in this way. But thought better of it in-case I scared her, or something.

Anyhow, a short while ago, I was practising zooming off from the Physical at various speeds to see the different effects. I found that, following onset of projection, there was a critical speed which, if I didn't get to quickly enough, I'd fall back down into the Physical. I'd been doing this about 6 times. The last time I was feeling a bit drained and, on flopping back into the Physical, for some reason I turned sideways while falling.

As I landed, I got an amazing feeling that I had landed sideways across my wife's body. As I say, I was feeling rather drained by that time. My sight was all a bit fuzzy and the room was dark anyway. But the sensation was EXACTLY like I was lying across her abdomen in the Physical. What was even more amazing, was she started cussing me for disturbing her! Telling me to get on my own side of the bed!! I muttered an apology and explained that I'd just crash-landed. Next morning she had no recollection of the "incident".

Yours,
Frank

 
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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2002, 03:12:15 »

Frank,

Hey, maybe in a way my partner and i did communicate.  In the obe i described to you, i also felt drained and blurry tired eyes.  I remember reading a part in Robert Bruce's book about staying 20 feet away from the body and that tiredness and pull back to body would occurr if not far enough away.  Could be this?

One other i had, i must have been rolling out , cause i tried to push my self up with my arm on the bed and it went straight through.  So it was a novelty for a while, up, down with my arm.  Funny.

I was also lifting this plastic bag with asssorted contents that ive stuffed under my bed.  The smell of plastic was so strong.

As for the advice about the music.  Just the information i need to hear.
Shame i love that heavy metal.  Modern day poetry.
Im going to cut down my intake.  lol

Thanks for the reply Frank.

Paola(alfa_33)
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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2002, 07:04:47 »

I didnt read any of that
So forgive me if Im off topic now

But

Whats the worse that can happen?

You get scared, or distracted.

Blah Its all about will
I swear.. If i meditate going..I know for sure im going to project
i just get the feeling
I do



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« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2002, 03:46:50 »

Seriously, is there any danger in doing OBE?

It took me a while to convince myself (and my subconcious) that there was no real danger despite what some of my friends and family told me (they know nothing about OBE) and I have read a lot of beautiful travels trying to believe, as I have read, that I see something I don't want to see I can easily "fly" away from that. So now I was feeling totally ready.

But I started reading the messages of the Psychic Self-Defence discussion group and espacially the article "Astral Danger" by David Grant ( www.astraldynamics.com/articles/others/articles_30.htm ) and I start to wonder how I should consider that.

Of course this won't keep me from trying again and again to have an OBE, but it tells me to work harder on my energy so that I could be stronger. Am I right?
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