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Author Topic: astral plane? hmm...  (Read 13581 times)
greatoutdoors
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« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2005, 20:20:26 »

Anton1,

My first thought is to ask you to take your own advice. Do the practice, put the card on the table, and keep working at it. I agree with you in part -- the only way to know a thing is real is to demonstrate it unequivocally.

Having said that, I can add I absolutely know the ability to AP is real. My only instance of AP lasted just a few seconds. I was standing up, looking in a mirror, and feeling a bit disgusted. Suddenly "I" was standing behind myself, looking at me. "I" said, "It's just a biological machine, you know." Then it started to sink in what was going on and I popped back into my body. Didn't need the card. Took awhile to get my chin up off the floor.  Smiley

In the above instance, I could see and hear everything just as I normally can. I just didn't happen to be in my body while I was doing so. Go figure.
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catmeow
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« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2005, 23:26:32 »

Hi anton1

There are probably more degrees, second degrees, Masters and PhD's on this site then you could shake a stick at.  So you need to be careful about your sweeping generalizations, about our level of education.

But even if that were not the case, Sir William Barrett expressed it best:

"Whatever the humblest men affirm from their own experience is always worth listening to, but what even the cleverest of men, in their ignorance, deny, is never worth a moment's attention"

Your "card trick" has been tried and tested, but in your ignorance you deny it.

catmeow
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The bad news is there's no key to the Universe. The good news is it's not locked. - Swami Beyondananda
The Astral Pulse
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2005, 23:26:32 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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karnautrahl
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« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2005, 23:57:27 »

Quote
"Whatever the humblest men affirm from their own experience is always worth listening to, but what even the cleverest of men, in their ignorance, deny, is never worth a moment's attention"


catmeow, this is a fantastic quote. Anton1, some of the things you say and the way you say them sadden me. There is no solidness to your generalisations, the weak mind nonsense is totally useless and incorrect. The opposite is true for many many experienced practitioners of all kinds here.
Perhaps you hope that predicting flames would prevent them also.

There is a reason that most regulars here are still here. They explore, they experiment, they document, and share their data with others who may be interested.

Whilst this is not a strictly controlled scientific community, it's something far more important. We are not about preserving some Ivory Tower of some way of thought. Real science is also NOT about preserving one way of thought, but about finding TRUTH, this means attempting in a positive way to prove theories or end up disproving them as necessary, however the emphasis is on the PROOF. Science means I believe "to know" or have I got that wrong (it's late wink ). To know means not to close your mind to things NOR does it mean blind belief and wishy washiness. It means to honestly try to find out.
If you care enough to comment, then perhaps you should care enough to seriously leave your silly prejudices behind and actually make your own personal and honest investigation.

No-one has to konw you know, if you accidently prove your original narrow viewpoint wrong, you don't have to admit it smiley.  Sometimes the last thing we want to do is reveal that a viewpoint held dear has been proven to us personally to be wrong.


The members of the board, appear to me at least appear to be about exploration and developement.  If some of those directions do not appeal to your sensibilities kindly do not engage in them.

I do spend time reading skeptic sites such as skepdic.com (not a good example due to it being based on a skeptical philosophy only and not based on scientific rigor) as I believe thorough scientific foundations can only be good for the kinds of practice I am interested in.

To what degree are you actually qualified to make your generalisations? How many months have you spent doing your homework? How much do you really know or at least think you know?
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Syro
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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2005, 02:50:53 »

Quote
However, it's important to realize that no one understands how or where memory is stored. There's actually very little to suggest that it is stored in the brain
That is true but even more strange in studies show that commands like move your finger does not even start in your brain they record that the first signal was transmit for your finger then hit your brain they want back to your finger. that there proves that we don't depend on brain power or conceptions to function but on some other force that is not know by science and probably want be know.but recording to Robert Bruce he suggest that we not in the body in the first place which would explain the origin of the first signal
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anton1
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2005, 05:06:41 »

woohoo! so many replies! i am popular Smiley

(1) Telos, thank you for your invitation to stick around. your offer is a generous gesture. i will not stick around though. other duties call...

(2) karnautrahl, i sent you an angry PM. enjoy! Smiley

(3) hahaha! Smiley you guys... you guys crack me up. i said "lack of education" and look at you all saying complex scientific words like "premise" or "implication". wow, i guess you all are very educated, because only educated people know such words. lol Smiley sorry, i couldn't help it. it's just so obvious sometimes...

(4) "You use both interchangeably, which implies you perceive a difference between them" - lol Smiley this sentence does not make sense and i don't think this is a typo.

(5) i feel insulted when you expect me to argue with you. look at your style of "arguing": you make an insane statement, make another one, one more, and then make a super conclusion from all that. where is the proof? you don't need any! proofs are for geeks and... (okay, stop Anton. just stop. dont argue with them, remember? Smiley)

(6) MisterJingo: "I totally agree that astral sight is a creation of the brain" - GREAT! now watch your opinion change as your friends disagree with this statement trying to show that A-sight is a thing on its own.

(7) MisterJingo: "It [sight] only has difference from the other senses because our brains have developed in a way to generate these 'pictures' from this form of input." - huh??? so you are saying this is why sight is different from hearing and taste? hmm. that doesn't make sense, sorry.

(8 ) redcatherine: "We sense through the energy body, feeling seeing hearing ,and send these stimuli back to the physical body to interpret". HAHAHA! this must be the best one. you make an outrageous claim, provide no support, and base your subsequent logic partly on that first claim (and partly on nothing). THIS is how most of you guys argue. no logic, only cult-style talking meaningless things to break your opponent on a psychological level. redcatherine you can play psychic with your mindless followers there, im way out of your league.

forget the lack of education part. pay attention to my other claim: weak mind. i think the reason you are all here is because it is easier for you to believe in a world with AP and unconditional love than in the world with wars, diseases, and LOTS of unhappy people. i know this is easier. but is it fair to close your eyes on reality? is it fair towards others?

bye bye now!
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2005, 05:06:41 »



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karnautrahl
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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2005, 08:23:23 »

Quote
im way out of your league.

Arrogant as ever eh?

So now could you define for me at least exactly what you regard as a weak mind?

For me a weak mind has symptoms such as the need to assert superiority by way of attack. Often  superior education is claimed and asserted, in others it's their money or their car. Each to his own form of egotism I guess.

Can you honestly prove to us that we all definitly close our minds to the real world? That we ignore suffering and unhappiness?
 
I have sent you a fairly comprehensive reply to your private message. Once again I submit to you the fact that your writing and your manner do not indicate a 24 yr old well educated individual with a rigorous and openly inquiring mind. It would be rude to state my personal opinion as to what I feel your style of writing does indicate.

It is insecure to feel that the best way to argue is to attack only. I have more I would wish to say but I am not so well educated and I will need to take some time to decide what more I wish to say and how.
It is amazing that you devote any time to a subject you so thorougly dislike.

I spend zero time on forums criticizing spectator sport or other pursuits I'm not interested in. I do not spend much more time engaged in religious discussion for the same reason. I am surprised that with your "intellect" that you spend any time whatsoever on this subject.
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astralspinner
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2005, 08:42:03 »

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MisterJingo: "It [sight] only has difference from the other senses because our brains have developed in a way to generate these 'pictures' from this form of input." - huh??? so you are saying this is why sight is different from hearing and taste? hmm. that doesn't make sense, sorry.


It makes perfect sense, which you'd know if you knew ANYTHING about how vision works.

Eyes don't funtion like a camera, they don't see a quick sucession of complete pictures one after the other.

What our eyes detect from moment to moment and what we actually 'see' are two utterly different things.
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Nostic
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2005, 08:57:33 »

Seems to me that anton1 is only here to stir things up... and he's doing a pretty decent job I have to say.
He's just playing a game. He tells how stupid we are; we, in turn, do the same to him (albeit in a more polite manner); and in the end nothing much is gained.
Haven't we seen people like this before, time and time again? He has no interest in gaining or learning anything. All he wants to do is tell us that we're wrong, and have us believe it.
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karnautrahl
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2005, 09:53:33 »

You are right Nostic,
I just needed the typing practice smiley... do you believe me? LOL
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catmeow
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« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2005, 10:30:02 »

anton1

I noticed your (rather weak) answers to various points made by other members of this board.  But you conveniently ignored my own critique:

Quote from: catmeow
Sir William Barrett expressed it best:

"Whatever the humblest men affirm from their own experience is always worth listening to, but what even the cleverest of men, in their ignorance, deny, is never worth a moment's attention"

Your "card trick" has been tried and tested, but in your ignorance you deny it.

I'm still waiting for your reply to this.

catmeow
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filipcza
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« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2005, 11:54:46 »

Nostic might very well be right. Anton1 might be here just to provoke us. If so then we should just ignore him. But in any case here's my comments, because his claims made me smile.. Smiley

1. anton1 claims that we are uneducated when just the opposite is probably true. There has been studies done on people who are interested in spiritual matters. The result was that their IQ was above average. anton1 makes his claim based on few lines from internet.

2. anton1 claims that we are weak minded. Here too just the opposite is true. To project you have to have strong mind, otherwise you can't hold the delicate mind state which is required to project. If you have weak mind, you will fall asleep trying. anton1 can try this himself and see if it's easy.

3. anton1 claims that the card check test won't work and that if we try it, we will fail and that will burst our little bubble. Well, as many of you know, that is the exact test we are encouraged to take, so we can prove to ourselves projecting is real. Many have done this test and succeeded. It's strange that anton1 came up with this exact same test to taunt us...maybe he has read Bruce's work..

anton1 basically thinks we are all weak minded, stupid people who imagine these fantasies because we can't face reality and want to live in a la-la-land. I can see his point if he has never had any "supernatural" events happened to him. It's natural that if you haven't seen something then it's hard to believe in such things, especially when the scientific community doesn't take these things seriously.

So, anton1 I say you this: you can believe what you will, it's your right. But you are a man who hasn't seen something and you try to convince a group of people who HAVE seen it. So you see, you have no hope succeeding. All you can hope to accomplish is to provoke some feedback(which you have done very well).

You have two choices, you can keep your eyes shut or you can open them and see for yourself. Of course if you like to live in a box where everything is born, then it suffers for awhile and then it dies, then be my guest! But if you have the courage to see if there really is something outside the box..well
I don't think you will, but I hope that maybe someday you will.

Don't believe anything blindly, that's not very smart move, but don't dismiss anything blindly either, that's plain stupid!

-Pete
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Tombo
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« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2005, 12:07:35 »

Quote from: anton1
hi!

let's see how you people can handle some truth...

according to this website and many others astral traveling is a way to explore REAL world and not your subconscious. is it really? try something next time you travel. take a deck of playing cards, shuffle it, close your eyes and draw a card. put that card on a table (or elsewhere) face up, but don't look at it. and now travel away! once you are tuned to your "astral body" take a look at that card. can you see what it is? when you are back in your physical body compare what you saw in the astral world with what it really is. YOU WILL NOT GUESS THAT CARD!

just face it, this "astral traveling" is nothing but a controlled dream. sure it's fun. hey, it's definitely healthier than acid! but astral body is not real and all you see when you travel is the creations of your mind. there is no other dimensions, there is no god. the reality is made of hard work and lies. face it, be strong!

wait, my astral body foresees a lot of negativity coming in response to this thread (hehe). let me emphasize some key points here.

1) try the experiment. if you guess the card it will be a final proof to yourself and others that astral traveling is real.

2) don't weasel out, try the experiment! stop making up excuses!

3) seriously, try this experiment. if you can't see the card - you can't see your body from outside and you can't see anything else. it's all made up.


Your mind is way out of my league I would say........ Your arguments are lame! You want proof and come up with some card trick to decide whether the astral is real or fantasy. hilarious! what would that prove anyway?
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anton1
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« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2005, 18:25:37 »

first things first.

DEFINITION OF WEAK MIND: a mind which is easily influenced by other people. properties: such person is easy to talk into something, they tend to believe things without much doubt or critical thinking.

karnautrahl, i sent you a PM back. yes, i am arrogant. but i am probably more arrogant than i am insecure Smiley

what you describe is not a weak mind. i think we could call it "a person whose ego is bigger than self-esteem".

how do you expect me to prove you that you do AP to run away from the real world? this is my judgement. i cannot prove it without hypnotizing you, extracting your subconscious thoughts, and comparing to what you normally are like. i don't do hypnosis.

Quote
I spend zero time on forums criticizing spectator sport or other pursuits I'm not interested in.

there are people here who will benefit from reading my posts. if what i say upsets you - maybe you should not read. by the way, how would you go about saying someone that in your opinion they lack education? is there a way to say that nicely? i'd like to know if you guys know such a way or just complain because your ego is hurt.

catmeow, you are saying that the card trick described by me (or equivalent) has been done. my response to this is the following... if such a trick was indeed done (and there was no doubt about any1 cheating) that would prove that AP allows people to travel physical space, while physically staying on the same spot. nobody then would send a probe to Titan, because it cost an insane amount of money! they could send APing researchers instead. also, people could use AP to communicate messages at great distances. in military AP abilities could be used for recon, in business AP could be used to find out about competitors' secrets. somehow, with all these obvious benefits, AP is not that wide spread. this is my main evidence that AP is not objectively real. that means the card trick has not been done, or the way it was done does not prove anything.

filipcza, you had a long message, i probably won't respond to all points. (the numbers below don't correspond to yours)

(1) yeah, the government paid me to come here and mess with you guys.

(2) "The result was that their IQ was above average." - a good example of so widely accepted these days false-arguing. first of all, you do not tell us WHO conducted those studies and why should anyone believe those people. secondly, if someone's IQ is above average - what exactly does it mean? what was it? what is the average IQ? how smart does that make them? does believing in God make you spiritual or we are talking about AP type of spiritual? this is why i don't argue with you guys. you are unable to provide a valid argument. trying to shock the opponent with outrageous claims and support with true-sounding lies is the most many of you can do.

(3) who has done the card trick? raise your hand please.

(4) no, i have never had any supernatural events happen to me. by definition, such events do not exist. prove me otherwise. oh, you don't want to prove? well, excuse me then...

(5) "You have two choices" - no, i have more choices. what is it, an attempt to send me down one of two paths both of which lead where you want me to go? play these tricks with your girlfriends please, i am kind of beyond this.

you need to wake up, guys. otherwise you will spend all your life doing AP while others will spend theirs making lots of money, travelling, having fun, having great sex. don't you want these things?
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karnautrahl
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« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2005, 19:43:44 »

The return of the troll. The only reason I keep replying? because this week is a quiet week workwise smiley.

[edit] I got rid of the rest in case I bored the **** out of the rest of the forum. smiley.

If you are not a troll, then why are you here? Why bother? None of us can or will care to convince you of any one point of view-as many are represented here. You will not convince us of yours. You make as much sense as a fundementalist evangelist attempting to harangue people to follow his religion. Your passion for your own arrogance and narrow minded ideals is as fervent as any religious extremists. Instead of explaining anymore your beliefs etc, explain to us one thing. Why on earth are you here? in this forum? It goes against everything you believe.
Trolling? smiley. Gah I am obviously proving I have too much spare time today!
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catmeow
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« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2005, 21:34:45 »

anton1

I see that your style of writing has calmed down and is now closer to reasoned discussion than it originally was. That at least is something.  At first I thought you were a 15 year old (seriously).

Quote from: anton1
if such a trick was indeed done (and there was no doubt about any1 cheating) that would prove that AP allows people to travel physical space, while physically staying on the same spot

The card trick wouldn't actually prove that people could travel in a "spirit body".  It would simply prove that ESP exists, and that we could perceive physical things remotely.  I have done the card trick.  As a teenager I taught myself hypnosis and would hypnotize various people.  One of my subjects was a deep-trance subject and she was very psychic when hypnotized.  I used to set up scenes in other rooms in my parents' house and get her to "travel in her mind" to the room and describe what she saw.  There was no prompting.  Her descriptions were always completely accurate.   There were other experiments I conducted with this subject which were really 100% successful.  There was no possibility of cheating, because the subject was not an illusionist, she did not devise the experiments, was not pre-warned and had no conscious recollection of any of it.  The results went way beyond anything you could expect by chance.  There was simply no way it was coincidence.  I don't expect you to believe this because you are not mentally equiped to cope with the implications.  It doesn't fit into your world view so it can't be true.

I have also seen a couple of psychics and their readings were so mind-numbingly unconvincing, that if I based my views about ESP solely on readings given to me by paid psychics I wouldn't be a believer.

But I have seen it working first-hand, so as far as I am concerned ESP is a given. We need to look into it and figure out how and why it works.

Many of the great thinkers of the past century, Einstein, Feynman etc, were deeply spiritual and believed in a purpose behind creation.  Einstein believed that the laws of the universe must necessarily be mathematically beautiful, because he believed God would wish it this way.  Were these "weak" minds, because they believed in God, and a purpose behind creation?  I think not.  

You are wrong to assume that there is nothing to AP.  There is.  I don't know what it is, but there is something to it.

Quote from: anton1
you need to wake up, guys. otherwise you will spend all your life doing AP while others will spend theirs making lots of money, travelling, having fun, having great sex. don't you want these things?

I do all those things too, don't worry....

You need to open your mind.  Look at my signature.  You will learn something.  I shalln't waste any more time talking to you.

catmeow
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Ezekiel L337
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« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2005, 08:56:19 »

Ok how old are you?  Really, i want to know.  Don't give me that you're around 22 or 23 or older.  You display a completely sophomoric behavior i would expect out of an arrogant teenage jock.  Now you said earlier that we're the kind of people that say "i don't want to fight" when prompted to?  I can tell you, that is not the case.  I usually don't let them get passed Do you.  Either I'll break a kneecap (which is not difficult at all) or a collar bone (even simpler, only 7 lbs of force required.)  Oh look, he knows how to look on the Internet on how to break peoples bones.  No, I'm an active martial artists and have got my first degree about a year ago.  I train with my friend who is as good or better than I.  Just to say the least, we were threaded with our lives by 4 men.  We left with maybe a sore side, but we also left with 4 hurting individuals to pave our way out.  That's besides the point.

Ok heres a summary of your pathetic and weak argument.

You - Ok guys heres the plan.  Try this science project out and see that you're wrong.

Us - Ok, you try a science project out and see if were right.

you - NO!!

you see where this is heading?  You are just having a good time by yourself.  You're not even trying to make a solid point.  You just want to be the kid who went up to the pokemon table and told them only kids play pokemon.  Now (to use your pathetic phrasing) this may be harsh but... you're a complete moron and probably were never hugged by your parents.   You have told us you were done here on several occasions but continue to post.  WHY?  Because you have been cleverly contradicted in some way and you find it necessary to come back and insist that you're right.

Where are you going with this.  Even if we are wrong, there are maybe 100-200 people who will tell you otherwise.  The majority is always right buddy.  Who cares if you've got point.  Go share it elsewhere.  Here you will not make an impression.  All you will get is contradiction.  And more contradiction.  If you're goal is to change our minds you are sadly mistaken.

Another example of your pathetic arguments summarized

You - you are all uneducated

Us - well i have a 2 degrees, am a graduate, and have a masters

You - hahah your lying...

What makes us so sure that YOU are educated?  Huh?

What do you want us to do for you?  Scan our degrees and post them for your viewing pleasure.  Maybe you'll want pennies along with them to make sure their just not of google.  I've already said enough.  You're just not going to win this one.  You might as well put a shield and helmet on and call out the roman army while you're at it.  Just go somewhere else.

Ezekiel
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Ezekiel L337
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« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2005, 09:12:19 »

Quote
you need to wake up, guys. otherwise you will spend all your life doing AP while others will spend theirs making lots of money, traveling, having fun, having great sex. don't you want these things?



Oh boy, i just read this.  God you're "education" astounds me.  Yes sir, you got it.  We all just lie around from dusk till dawn AP.  No, none of us have jobs, we just get degrees and let them hang on our parents walls.  You got it, we're all going to college for no reason at all.  Just for laughs.

Ok i hope you see where this is going.  A lot of us here do this when we have time.  When we come home from "making money" we decide to do something besides watch TV all day.  We try a bit of Astral Projection out.  Cus you're damn right, it beats the hell out of acid.  I would know.  So if you like to have fun by watching the teletubbies, and we like to have fun by APing, ..... whats the problem here?  You have your fun and we'll have ours.

Also, you said something about challenging us to prove astral projection is real.  Unfortunately the only way to do that at all would be to give you 3 things.

An open mind
Some preliminary basics.
And your willing and unbiased attempt.

I know if you ever try this, (you won't), your mind set will be "this is so stupid i can't believe I'm doing this."  Hence, no results.  Get an open mind, stop looking at life through a straw, and quit bashing strangers you'll never meet or personal know over the Internet.
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« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2005, 14:12:53 »

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject"
 
  - Winston Churchill
 
you certainly are persistant...just how much time have you spent on this site?  I'm surprised you find the time between all your money making and great sex.......some may call you arrogant....but just between us, I know your just.......

dumb.

 wink
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« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2005, 16:41:11 »

"travelling, having fun, having great sex. don't you want these things?"

Huh?

I wasn't aware AP and the above were mutually exclusive. Anton1, do you actually read what you post? Do you not realise how daft it sounds?

TROLL ALERT!

Ha ha ha ha ha...
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« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2005, 18:10:38 »

Anton; don't you have anything better to do with your time than harrassing people here? Get a life man!
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« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2005, 01:39:49 »

To anton1:

You may one day find that what you know is minuscule relative to what you don't know.
I would suggest that being strong entails facing the unknown with objectivity.

If you know what is real and what is not, please tell me. Tell me what life is. Tell me what time is. Tell me what energy and consciousness are, why they exist and where they come from. Tell me what dimensions are, and how you know what they are.

I don't know what life is. I don't know what time is, or energy or consciousness. So how do I know many how dimensions there are, or what dimensions are? Why does 2 plus 2 equal four?

As humans we have awareness, perception and thought. What else?

There is one thing I'm sure of: I'm not sure I know anything. I certainly do not know what is real.

Here are some quotes from Einstein:

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."
"In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep."
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."





I began to experience lucid dreams and OBE spontaneously and later had some success in initiating them.

During one experience, in which I seemed to be in the out of body state, moving around the room, a funny thing happened: the phone rang.

My object in this experience was to be as aware as possible of all details of my perceptions in order to later compare the perceived environment to the "real" environment.  So, when in the out of body state, floating near the ceiling of the room, I heard the phone ring, I wondered whether the phone was "really" ringing. I then heard the answering machine take the call, and the caller leave a message. I realized I could check this later.

Back in the normal waking state of consciousness, I checked the machine. The message was on the tape as I had heard it from the out of body state.

Cheers,
Nick
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Nostic
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« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2005, 02:16:02 »

Quote from: California
To anton1:

You may one day find that you know is miniscule relative to what you don't know.
I would suggest that being strong entails facing the unknown with objectivity.

If you know what is real and what is not, please tell me. Tell me what life is. Tell me what time is. Tell me what energy and consciousness are, why they exist and where they come from. Tell me what dimensions are, and how you know what they are.

I don't know what life is. I don't know what time is, or energy or consciousness. So how do I know many dimensions there are, or what dimensions are? Why does 2 plus 2 equal four?

As humans we have awareness, perception and thought. What else?

There is one thing I'm sure of: I'm not sure I know anything. I certainly do not know what is real.

Here are some quotes from Einstein:

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."
"In order to form an immaculate member of a flock of sheep one must, above all, be a sheep."
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."





I began to experience lucid dreams and OBE spontaneously and later had some success in initiating them.

During one experience, in which I seemed to be in the out of body state, moving around the room, a funny thing happened: the phone rang.

My object in this experience was to be as aware as possible of all details of my perceptions in order to later compare the perceived environment to the "real" environment.  So, when in the out of body state, floating near the ceiling of the room, I heard the phone ring, I wondered whether the phone was "really" ringing. I then heard the answering machine take the call, and the caller leave a message. I realized I could check this later.

Back in the normal waking state of consciousness, I checked the machine. The message was on the tape was as I had heard it from the out of body state.

Cheers,
Nick


LOL, that's funny. Just yesterday I was reading a bunch of quotes from Einstein. It's beautiful that such a great intellect could see that greater things lay beyond the intellect.

Here are 2 of my favorite quotes:

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
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catmeow
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« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2005, 10:40:31 »

Yeh Einstein was quite a guy.

I just couldn't resist adding the following quote, which I spotted in the Quantum Metaphysics forum:

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it" - Max Planck

Intellectual midgets like anton1 will eventually be replaced by better minds.

catmeow
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MisterJingo
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« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2005, 12:15:21 »

http
Quote from: anton1

(6) MisterJingo: "I totally agree that astral sight is a creation of the brain" - GREAT! now watch your opinion change as your friends disagree with this statement trying to show that A-sight is a thing on its own.

(7) MisterJingo: "It [sight] only has difference from the other senses because our brains have developed in a way to generate these 'pictures' from this form of input." - huh??? so you are saying this is why sight is different from hearing and taste? hmm. that doesn't make sense, sorry.


 I guess you have never heard of the medical condition synesthesia then. Do a google on it. With this condition people actually physically feel taste, smell sound, see sound etc. It's a documented condition.
 One could assume that this is a relatively rare medical condition where the brain is wired differently in sufferers, but one needs only look at documentation of psychedelic experience where 'psychedelic' doses of a compound create synesthesia effects too. People seeing music, feeling music, tasting it, or smelling sound etc. So it seems we can all bypass this brain catagorisation mechanism which distinguishes sensory inputs from each other. I've even experienced similar during trance-states and meditation.
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catmeow
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« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2005, 13:17:49 »

Hi MisterJingo

Yeh I thought exactly the same thing as you and I also considered posting about synesthesia.  The guy's arguments simply don't hold up.  The physical sense organs, brain and mind are all different things, but anton1 seems to confuse all of these.

So I can clarify it for him:  

Our subconscious mind creates a representation of the external world and presents it to our conscious mind as a set of images, sounds, tastes, odours and touch sensations.  But the sense organs which gather this information can be switched (synesthesia) or they need not be physical organs at all (clairvoyance).

catmeow
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