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Author Topic: Damn it, I'm getting nowhere!  (Read 4578 times)
Andali27
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« on: April 09, 2005, 04:39:24 »

As the subject header says!  I'm getting absolutly nowhere!  By that I I mean, nowhere with everything!  Phasing, AP, the lot.  I can't even get a suitable F10/MABA state these days and I try then I don't try (*grabbing head in frustration*) because not trying is suppose to help but all that does is annoy me.  I know you're not supposed to get despondent or anything  shocked but even though you get the whole two steps forward, three steps back thing, I'm like, two steps forward, ten steps back!   It's frustrating the hell out of me!  As far as I know, it's the repetition that may be putting a spanner in the works. angry

I need another way to go about it but I can never seem to recreate the circumstances where  I actually get somewhere!

Does anyone have anything!? smiley   Something else I can try or maybe what I should do to get back to where I was?  Absolutely anything is GREATLY appreciated.  Thanks in advance!

Andali

P.S. My net visits are spontaneous at the moment so sorry if I can't reply or anything for a few days at a time.
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2005, 05:05:35 »

Do you believe in God? Spirit guides? "Higher" powers/beings? Since I've started my practice about 15/16 months ago, I've had constant progress. Maybe it's because transcending the physical is a NEED for me. Anyway, the only thing that can really frustrate me is the pace of my progress. Whenever I'm getting uptight, I mentally ask God, or my guide, or anyone who can hear me to give me a helping hand. In those times I always seem to have mini revelations that help me to progress.
It's also good to be creative with your approach. Try to think of methods or techniques that are all your own. Or try combinations of other methods that suit your particular personality. Experiment. Play with your imagination. Read books from authors that you may not have considered before for different perspectives...
Hope that helps.
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2005, 05:05:35 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Frank
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2005, 06:05:11 »

Andali:

Perhaps you need to be a lot kinder to yourself, maybe not judge yourself so harshly. There are frustrations to be overcome in this. For example, in the beginning it took me five years before I realised that I was projecting into a region where thought equals action. During which time I fought in all manner of "wars", met every kind of "demon" imaginable, and slayed "dragons" galore!

I look back and laugh about it now, but at the time, it was very frustrating. I forget how many times I gave up, only to go back and give it another go. Then, one morning, I cracked it. But then there are other challenges to face. It never really gets any easier. What you are experiencing is how it tends to be... but in reality. Not the fictional dream-land reality of these new-age types that create the fancy-sounding web-sites and just parrot everyone else. I doubt any of them can actually DO any of this. Sure, they’ll have a few lucid dreams and smoke a little whacky-baccy, or eat some funny-fungus, but that's all they are doing.

Controlled, conscious-exit projection is a tricky mental balancing act. You need a particular clarity of mind to achieve it. Unfortunately, often it's only by working through the frustrations that the necessary particular clarity of mind is achieved. You see, once you can recognise the correct frame of mind then you can concentrate on keeping it, or only making attempts when you have it.

That’s why my main projection time is after I wake up. Because my thinking is clear, but there is a certain relaxed quality about myself that makes me happy just to lie back while I go off into myself. But when I’m not in that particular frame of mind, it’s a lot harder for me. I can do it, but it takes longer to achieve.

So I think your solution is to think less in terms of projecting or Phasing and more in terms of getting yourself into a productive frame of mind. Think back to your frame of mind, how it was when you were starting out and then you had those successes. That’s the frame of mind you need to find again. Once you do that, the experiences will come to you rather than you chasing them like you are doing at the moment.

Find that productive state of mind and let the experiences come to you. You can’t start trying to “chase” these experiences. Many people make the mistake of trying to use too much determination and will-power. Like they were trying to accomplish some arduous physical circumstance. While that kind of attitude can work well within the physical world, it can easily have the opposite effect when you apply it to your non-physical work.

The more you try to chase the experiences the more they run away from you. So, as I say, find that productive state of mind and have them come back to you. You don’t need to “travel” or “go” anywhere to have these experiences. We already occupy all of consciousness. You just need to work on becoming more receptive and your mind will open to them again.

Yours,
Frank
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knightlight
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« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2005, 06:21:13 »

I am having a similar problem, recently I had my first 2 obe's that I have ever experienced while actually trying.  Before this stage, I would get ticked, give up on it, fall asleep, have a lucid dream or obe then!  I struggled for ages to do it while i was trying and now I have.  I can enter a deep trance at the drop of a dime and f10 every night of the week, anytime I want, but now that I have actually had an obe, I feel 1000 times more angry when I cant!  All I can think of is that I have done it before, not once, but twice!  I get stuck in a loop of anger and frustration that is not only unhealthy but very counterproductive.  I feel your pain!  Take a break.  Relax.  Do something for yourself.  I plan on doing all of the above and forgetting about it for a while!  Good luck!
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michael
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2005, 19:42:27 »

Hi..not easy but when I have a dry period and lack of OBE's it always works toensure Iwake up about 3/4am..stay awake and meditate..affirmation "I will remain conscious"..go to sleep and at the very least you will rpobably have a lucid dream..maybe even an OBE.good luck.
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« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2005, 19:42:27 »



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imel007
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2005, 07:37:30 »

I know one problem I had when learning to astral project was trying to learn everything at once: relaxation, clearing the mind, exit sensations, energy development, exit techniques.

I made more progress when I worked on one thing at a time.  This was sort of boring for me, but with discipline I learned how to better master each individual aspect of astral projection.

I would start practicing one aspect of astral projection for a month or so until you get really good at it.  The hardest thing for me to do was completely clear my mind for extended periods of time.  But once I better learned how to do this, my progress began to accelerate.
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Andali27
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2005, 05:16:45 »

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Think back to your frame of mind, how it was when you were starting out and then you had those successes. That’s the frame of mind you need to find again


I barely knew anything then.  I just read something and did it and got a result.  The next night I tried to recreate that and went backwards.  The frame of mind I had was 'not knowing what to really expect but being open to anything'.  I know what should to expect and set those barriers up without meaning to.  The only way I can see to overcome this is to back up and start at the beginning all over again.

My problems rotate more around getting exit vibes.  The first time it happened, I got overexcited and killed the thing halfway out.

A similar thing happened last night, I was trying to use a Robert Bruce technique I had been reading, my heart chakra went nuts for about a minuet then I started expecting things and nothing else happened.  That and I can't seem to use tactile imaging.  I usually end up visualising without even thinking about it because thats what I'm good at.

Andali
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Frank
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2005, 05:45:58 »

Andali: You're a natural. You don't have to get hooked on techniques. You are part of the new generation.

All you need to do is simply get on and do it. That's the stage I'm at now, I just lay back and get on with it. I'm not thinking of if/could/maybe I just get on and do it. The difference is it took me 20 years to realise I could do that. But there are young people today who can just get on and do it. Without all the years of faffing about inbetween. That's human progress. So love it!

Just lay back and do it!

Be open to it, and it'll come to you. That's the big problem people have with all these "techniques". They keep trying to chase it. They are not noticing what's going on right in front of them. It's all there. Just lay back and notice what comes to you.

That's all I do. I just lay back and after a short while... there it is... because it's there all the time. It's just that the harder people try the more they push it away from themselves.

Yours,
Frank
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mactombs
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« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2005, 22:26:44 »

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Be open to it, and it'll come to you. That's the big problem people have with all these "techniques". They keep trying to chase it. They are not noticing what's going on right in front of them. It's all there. Just lay back and notice what comes to you.

That's all I do. I just lay back and after a short while... there it is... because it's there all the time. It's just that the harder people try the more they push it away from themselves.


I wish I could understand this. It sounds simple, it sounds so easy, but what is it? What comes to me? What am I looking for? I lay back and after a short while my mind wanders, I daydream, or I start becoming incoherent and feel like I'm going to fall off my chair.

I keep looking, I notice, I blabber to myself, but I never encounter anything that seems important.

It doesn't matter how easy something is to find when you don't know what it looks like. That's what techniques offer, something tangible that way.

It's hard not to chase. "Do without trying" sounds sage, but it makes no sense unless you've already done it, and even then ...

What is it we're missing? Sometimes I feel like the person that keeps demanding, "Where? Where?" when everyone else is marveling at some sight I just can't see. I definitely relate to what Andali is saying. It gets so frustrating.  angry
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2005, 00:05:12 »

Honestly Frank, I think it's only the rare person who's going to get far by just letting it all come to them. The human mind I think has become far too logical and structured to so easily make such a great jump into the seemingly illogical. This is the usefulness of techniques- they give you a step-by-step process to follow. I do agree however that it is important not to get too attached to techniques.

Often times you'll hear people say that you shouldn't really try, and the more you try, the further away from your goal that you'll get. But I say you should try, and try, and try, until you no longer have to try... then you just do. It's like when you're a baby and you can't walk yet. At first, it takes a great effort. But now that you're an adult, you don't even think about walking, you just do it. It is important however that you be wary; usually when you try, you will tense-up. It's this tension that can be a major problem. If you're trying, always be aware of the tension in your body and then relax it. That tension will sneak-up on you time after time after time, so it takes a great deal of practice to get away from it.

But I think the technique of not trying will only work for a select few people. And believe me, the mind is so cunning that it will turn not trying into an effort. So instead of just trying and admitting it, now you're trying not to try, and deluding yourself into thinking that you're not trying anything- in other words, you're just being false. Most human minds will need structure in order to progress. They're at point "A", and they want to get to point "B". Now here you come along and say, sir (or miss), don't you know that you're already at the place that you want to go, and in fact, you really don't have to go anywhere in order to get there? You're there already... so just be there. For most people this is simply not going to compute. Most people are going to need a road map and a few directions (ie techniques).

As you progress, you start to understand that the whole thing is simple, but that your human mind has made it complicated. Being frustrated is a natural part of the process. It's only when you are overcome with frustration that you can REALLY let go. It's like you just drop to the floor in exhaustion, and that's when the lights start going off... You expend all your energy in the effort, and then life fills you back up with its knowledge. The problem was that you were just in your own way. And most people don't have a clue as to how they should get out of their own way unless they are exhausted, and are practically forced to do so.
This is why most experiences happen around sleep- you are just naturally getting out of your own way. This is mostly unconscious behavior however, and is therefore, obviously not the highest goal.
Don't get discouraged if these unconscious/spontaneous events are not happening as much as you'd like. Being spontaneous, they may happen 5 days in a row, or may stop coming all together for months at a time. I do not believe that they are necessarily good indicators as to how well you are progressing.
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2005, 00:42:58 »

Why is this stuff so tough at all if it's so natural?

Moving energy and using on people for healing is very easy indeed and always has been. However I've virtually quit on the AP stuff-none of that works for me-or it's just too "hard" to master. Compared to energy work anyway, all I had to do was muster up some daily discipline and I could build on something I'd done since I was 10, direct energy for the purposes of healing. I can grasp that, manipulate it, alter how I "feel" it to get varying results etc. No matter how fantastic the results or the act feels-epiphany feelings and stuff-nothing changes much in my dream life. I'm not surprised folks get frustrated.

A few people have it easy, natural and get progress for their time and efforts-even if it's months. Others try for years with no results-I'm one of those. I can't hold the habit of practicing any AP stuff long enough anymore to get anywhere. Yet for 18 months now I've stuck rigourously to training the energy body for at least 1 if not 2 or more hours 6 days out of 7.
That's besides the less structured efforts I had before NEW and the regular healing work i tended to do.

Perhaps it's just possible that for me, this stuff is not meant to actually happen in this life? It feels like it for sure. Nothing clairvoyant, psychic or astral happens at all. Even with the most powerful healing sensations, I see nothing. Feel what I'm doing, but see nothing. No changes outside of normality..totally annoying. Stupid too. Seems pointless..
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2005, 22:49:31 »

I looked over the permanent topics again for posts about Phasing that I'd read before for a refresher, and found that I've gotten off track on my notions of what Phasing includes. Sometimes it's dismaying to see how I need to re-learn things (for instance, on the following info, I had even replied to it before, but forgotten it since). It's so easy to get side-tracked with so many different notions of, "maybe this will work faster," etc. instead of just sticking with it and practicing.

The following answers questions I brought up earlier in this thread. They're very helpful in addressing the frustration I brought up. I have copied these from posts Frank made on the Permanent Astral Topics thread, and quoted myself to show how they answered my questions (emphasis is mine):

MacTombs:
Quote
I keep looking, I notice, I blabber to myself, but I never encounter anything that seems important.


Frank:
Quote
Okay, so you are in a state where you are quietly and passively observing ...

Say you perceive some fleeting kind of something or other. Chances are you’ll wonder if what you think you may have perceived is what you should be starting to perceive. Then you’ll realise your inner voice has just made a comment. But the realisation of that was yet another comment. By which time you’ll probably be right back where you started.

The key is to simply roll along with this mental imagery, without your inner voice commenting on it, or having your physical body reacting to it. This is the beginning of Phasing. You don’t need any particular “technique” in order to project. You just need to set it going. Once the process gets underway everything happens more or less automatically.


MacTombs:
Quote
I wish I could understand this. It sounds simple, it sounds so easy, but what is it? What comes to me? What am I looking for?


Frank:
Quote
The key aspect is to engage your physical senses, because this aspect is what makes it work. Engaging your physical senses within you, is what tends to have the effect of focusing your attention inwards. So you need enough detail to engage all your senses, no more and no less ...

focus away from the physical, and concentrate on something else to the point where it captures your focus of attention. That’s the reason for engaging your physical senses within you, during the rundown, because doing that greatly helps to hold your attention to the degree necessary to capture your attention and hold your focus ...

What you do next is create a more interesting set of circumstances within you, i.e. your mental rundown, which will attract your focus of attention ...


I hope this is as helpful for others as it was for me.
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2005, 14:52:49 »

So wait! It's like you have to imaging yourself in another part of the room?

Quote
Most human minds will need structure in order to progress. They're at point "A", and they want to get to point "B". Now here you come along and say, sir (or miss), don't you know that you're already at the place that you want to go, and in fact, you really don't have to go anywhere in order to get there? You're there already... so just be there.


Quote
It's only when you are overcome with frustration that you can REALLY let go. It's like you just drop to the floor in exhaustion, and that's when the lights start going off... You expend all your energy in the effort, and then life fills you back up with its knowledge. The problem was that you were just in your own way. And most people don't have a clue as to how they should get out of their own way unless they are exhausted, and are practically forced to do so.


Thus... you have to wear yourself out with projection... and then the mind over matter will kick in... sort of... Like you must eliminate what you perceive physically to enter the astral realm...
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2005, 02:21:51 »

Frank,

i'd like to just make clear for myself what has been talked about in this thread especially the quotes of yours that mactombs has used above.

From what i can gather what you are doing is what i do for meditation.

When you say engage your physical senses within you etc. do you mean for example that if you hear your mind chatting then you let it, you don't stop it and don't have any reaction to it cause you don't need to you're just maintaining awareness of what is becoming apparent.

if you have a reaction then you just let that be there and accept it. same if you feel some physical sensation, or see some mental imagery just feel it or see it, accept it and make no mental comment or no other energetic reaction to it. from what i read this is what you are meaning, is it?

if so how do you go from this stage to AP? is it just through holding or setting an intention? it appears you're using no techniques.
 
cheers
Dean
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2005, 04:46:53 »

It's not the technique, it's the mentality... By focusing on your inner spirit, you can travel with it if you can focus on your environmental destination...

You have to be able to get in touch with the spirit inside yourself to start making it move around... Remember, everything in the astral plane is ruled by emotion and will, so you have to use these in order to travel into the astral plane...
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Frank
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2005, 07:47:48 »

Dean:

I’m not exactly sure what meditation is. According to my understanding, people are in some way trying to create a kind of “empty mind” situation but I’ve never really looked into it. I began “astral projecting” in a more conventional sense from reading Monroe’s JOB 20-odd years ago and practised the technique he gave in the book. After about three months, I began experiencing some definite effects and the rest, as they say, is history.

The kick-start, so to speak, that I recommend people to use is the Noticing exercise. This is designed to get people through the initial reluctance they tend to have. Perhaps the biggest initial obstacle is being presented with just a wall of blackness upon closing their eyes. So the Noticing exercise is designed to get people over that hurdle. This exercise is designed also to stop people making another big mistake of coming to snap judgements about what they may perceive. It trains them to accept the inner reality as it is presented to them, rather than trying to force anything, or something like that. This is basically along the lines of what you are saying it looks like.

Once a person becomes comfortable with the action of looking within, they will naturally want to start looking at something in particular else they’ll either get bored, or fall asleep. So next I recommend the creation of some kind of mental rundown in your imagination. Doing this has the effect of capturing a person’s focus of attention. Once their attention has been captured, they make the switch from 3rd person to 1st person view and find themselves (normally) within Focus 2 of consciousness. Reason why it’s normally F2 is because this area is where your imagination is, which is the faculty that a person uses to create their mental rundown.

When I talk about engaging the senses, I mean engage them in the imaginary rundown. Doing this makes the whole scenario appear more “real” and helps capture a person’s focus more easily so they can make the switch. As I say, “the switch” is the change in area of consciousness from Focus 1 to Focus 2, in terms of the Phasing Model that is.

Okay, so you ask how I go from this stage to Astral Projection?

Realise that Focus 2 of consciousness is the region that mystics typically call the “astral”. Only difference being is practitioners of the more traditional ideology are engaged in the action of the objective manifestation of a particular “out of body” style construct. Whereas we are engaging in a mental-rundown type of construct. It is essentially the same area of consciousness, the difference being the person’s perception. Remember, it is perfectly possible to shift your perception in consciousness and to not actually change your area of consciousness. So even though two people may be having radically different experiences, they are still within the same area of consciousness.

In other words, once you have made the shift in area of consciousness to Focus 2, you are then free to engage in whatever mental construct you like.

That’s also one of the big benefits with the Phasing Model, in that it is primarily geared to get you to Focus 2 of consciousness. Now, once focused within F2, it is FAR easier to enact even a conventional projection “technique”. In my view, after trying it both ways (I originally began “astral projecting” in a conventional sense, don’t forget) it is much easier to first get to Focus 2 of consciousness and then decide what you want to do from there.

If you want to play around with bodily energy, or stimulate various “chakras” or even project into the RTZ you can. It’s not really my thing as I prefer to change areas again to Focus 3 and Focus 4. But if a person wishes to remain within Focus 2, i.e. the “astral” and start flying around here and there and having a typical “astral projection” experience, then they can quite easily. Alternatively, then can allow their focus to come back towards the physical, or Focus 1, to a degree and experience an RTZ projection just the same as if they had used a conventional “projection technique”.

For people who can do this from the physical, i.e. Focus 1, then all well and good. But for someone who has tried projecting in a conventional sense, and who would still like to do that but is having difficulties with the conventional “techniques” then I would suggest for them to first try shifting their area of consciousness to Focus 2, as I describe as part of the Phasing Model. Then, once at Focus 2, think about “separating” from your physical body in a conventional sense. Because, for me, it is much easier to do this from Focus 2 of consciousness rather than Focus 1. So I’m guessing it will be for others too.

From Focus 2, if you with to continue along the lines of the Phasing Model then this leaves you open to change your focus of attention to Focus 3 or Focus 4 of consciousness.

Yours,
Frank
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« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2005, 03:54:22 »

Cheesy You need to relax. I hadn't been  able to get out for awhile due to stress. I had my first OBE when I was able to totally relax. Give it time Cool
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« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2005, 21:06:09 »

I find every time I lay down to practice at night i get deeper and deeper. its only a matter of time for me and I know it.

What are you supposed to be looking for? Nothing really- shapes, colors, lights all flash in and out of the darkness in front of your eyes.

Just keep practicing and make it a point not to really try any technique or set of rules. You will get into a deeper and deeper trance every time, progress becomes inevitable. Its the chinese finger lock- the harder you try the harder it becomes. Notice that this is a recurring theme in life yet?

I think we can all relate to what shes saying. it sucks having no visible progress and you have to be careful of a small belief snowballing and ruining our whole experience. Thats usually the problem Ive seen.

Also, dont be afraid! I know it seems simple but when you are actually in a deep trance-like state things can get hectic! Just remember its all in your head and you will be fine Smiley

Are any of you guys doing a mental rundown? Ive found that if you simply lay down and start your imagination it can take longer. Lay down, let your focus shift a little (maybe f2-f3 in monroe terms?) and then start the imagination process. It may not sound like much but when you are in a light trance the images in your minds eye are much easier to create/see. Even if you dont do a mental rundown you will still get little scenes and pictures floating through your head- the trick is to stay away from them. this is where the rundown comes in handy.

GL everyone Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2005, 04:26:57 »

Certain entities will try to discourage and hinder anyone from having an OBE.  Once someone accomplishes it, all truth and love and energy is open to them, and it's one more person on the side of good and truth.  You being discouraged is actually encouraging these types of beings, and as you grap your head in frustration, they laugh and high five in success.  You musn't let your own expectations get in the way of your focus.  If nothing is happening, then you need to accept the situation, focus calmy, and keep going.  If you don't accomplish anything that night, feel satisfied in your efforts, and try again, calmy and with determination, the next night.  You'll find your success.  My first experience wasn't even on purpose.  I tried and tried that night, and made some progress (felt the same sensation you would on a roller coaster, or the adrenaline before a fight, a feeling that can be easily manifested), but didn't have an OBE.  Later that night a noise startled me awake, and seconds later, as I had not been fully concious from the sudden jar, I felt the intense vibrations.  That was the beginning.  So don't be discouraged.  Continue and continue, you have your whole life to discover truth, and you can't find it without patience and perseverence.  When and how it happens may actually come as a suprise to you.
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2005, 16:36:33 »

Andali

My Tip is that you learn to Lucid dream since that is easier to achieve and there are a lot of good techniques around. Once you can LD you stay aware when the dream ends that way you can induce a OBE much more comfortable then from the waking state. Once you did that you know how it should feel and what state you have to be in plus you know that it is possible and how to do it. Then you can start to try to regular techniques again.

At least thats the way I a had success
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