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Author Topic: Labeling Experiences of the Non-Physical  (Read 8912 times)
Xanth
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« on: August 31, 2013, 19:39:00 »

A few requests for me to sticky this, so here it is.  Smiley
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I’ve made Astral Projection posts of this nature in the past, but as I’ve re-read them, they’ve seemed confusing, even to myself! And I wrote them! LOL
So I wanted to see if I couldn’t clarify things further.

I want to explain why “labeling” your experience in an attempt to categorize and define them is a bad idea, especially when you’re just starting out.

When I first started attempting to explore the non-physical, 10+ years ago, I had terms like “out of body experience”, “astral projection”, “lucid dream” and more all knocking around my skull. The only experience I had originally known about were lucid dreams, as I’ve been having those for as long as I can remember. It wasn’t until I really started putting the puzzle pieces together within the last 2 – 3 years that I figured out the actual nature of those experiences.

I found that there is one constant, one commonality, that linked all of these, supposedly, separate experiences/labels… dreams, lucid dreams, astral projections, out of body experiences, false awakenings, etc… there is one factor which everyone seems to completely ignore: YOU. Well, more to the point, Consciousness! Because you ARE consciousness. This is why these experiences all feel “different” and “separate”, because the “YOU” is different in each case.

YOU are the label. YOU are the definition.

How did I figure this out? What experiences did I have which gave me this conclusion? I have directly experienced the full spectrum of, what I can only describe as, “levels of awareness” within a single non-physical experience. I have started an experience with a dream awareness (normal dream), then become lucidly aware (lucid dream), then initiated a technique and brought forth my full waking awareness bringing me to an astral awareness (full astral projection). “Awareness”, to me, is a point along this spectrum. At each “level”, it feels like a different and completely separate experience. I can completely understand why people feel this way, but these aren’t experiences which you “have”… they’re experiences which you “are”. There is a vast difference between those two statements.

That spectrum looks kind of like this:

(Keep in mind that these are MY metaphors… MY labels. But I ask you to try and identify these labels in comparison to the ones you use. I try to make the comparison as obvious as I can using words and terms which people “mostly” agree upon. LoL)

“Dream Awareness” …… “Lucid Awareness” …… “Astral Awareness”

On the left of this spectrum, you have the experience which you don’t realize you’re in the non-physical. Essentially, it’s you dreaming… it’s you experiencing a reality that isn’t this physical reality, you just don’t realize that fact. It’s you having a dream awareness. You have to have a very base level of awareness in order to experience this, otherwise you won’t directly experience the event, so you’ll have zero chance of remembering it (which would be any experience taking place to the left of this point). If you’ve ever awoken in the morning with brief flashes of symbols and images from the dreams you had during the night, then you had a dream awareness experience, but you were just on the very cusp of having the bare minimum level of awareness in order to remember the experience.

On the far right, you have the experience which you do realize you’re in the non-physical *AND* you have the same awareness which you have right now while reading this post. You’re wide awake and fully aware of who you are with all your memories of such. THIS experience is what most people (and myself) would consider the “holy grail” of projections. It’s what most people refer to as an Astral Projection. It’s you experiencing the non-physical with an astral awareness.

I should point out, too, that your awareness can move both ways along this spectrum. You can gain awareness, and lose awareness.

So far I’ve described the two ends of the spectrum. Where does a “lucid awareness” fit into all this then?

Well, in the middle is the point where we have become “aware” that we’re in the non-physical and experiencing a reality that isn’t this physical reality. Anything to the left of this point is a “dream awareness experience”, or as most people call them, a “normal dream” (it’s important to point out here that the further right you move from the far left, the more “clear” and “vivid” your experience will become until you actually become lucidly aware). It’s at this point that the only thing you have is a base awareness that you’re in the non-physical. At this time, the closer you can bring your awareness to your full waking awareness, the further to the right you’ll move along this spectrum towards the “astral awareness” (aka, full astral projection). I have some techniques I’ve written about on my website to accomplish this. If you can’t find them, please let me know and I’ll provide the links.

So, as you can see, an astral projection is just a “dream” where you have a full waking awareness. However, don’t let the “just” fool you… what most people consider a “dream”, as I mentioned above, doesn’t exist. There is no such fundamental experience called a “dream”. There is only you experiencing the non-physical unknowingly!

This is why labeling an experience is a waste of time, because they’re all the same experience. What differs is only how consciously aware you are during the experience. This is why I don’t really worry too much if I had a lucid awareness experience or an astral awareness experience, because I know that what’s important is that I was consciously aware in the non-physical! I have a set of goals which I always keep solidly in my mind, so even if I’m only lucidly aware, I still remember enough to do them… such as meeting a guide. Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn’t… but as I said, in the end, I’m happy that I had an experience outside this physical reality.

I have a challenge for anyone who can project. Try to experience the full spectrum of awareness in a single non-physical experience. If you manage it, try to take note how each “level” feels compared to the last.

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/2012/07/22/labeling-experiences-of-the-non-physical/
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 05:27:38 »

AAAHH! makes very good sense!

i guess i should of joined the pulse sooner, i bet id have a pretty keen grasp on navigating the spectrum mentioned.

after this read i feel like i can identify each step from my first post. im guessing that i was so out of control on this one that i was bouncing from Lucid Awareness to Astral Awareness like a mad man.

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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 05:27:38 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Xanth
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2013, 16:28:47 »

AAAHH! makes very good sense!

i guess i should of joined the pulse sooner, i bet id have a pretty keen grasp on navigating the spectrum mentioned.

after this read i feel like i can identify each step from my first post. im guessing that i was so out of control on this one that i was bouncing from Lucid Awareness to Astral Awareness like a mad man.
And most people do that "bouncing" during their experiences.  It's very hard to retain a certain level of awareness for any extended period of time, however, they are "strengthening" exercises and techniques one can do in order to fight this awareness decay.
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2013, 00:05:05 »

Xanth, what you're describing is the continuous range of signal to noise ratio between brainwaves and the astral reality which somehow connects to and influences brainwaves. One one side we can imagine and dream things that are near completely fake, and on the other side we are accurately tuned in and our brainwaves flow with the reality out there. If part of us leaves the body and comes back later, what it experienced still has to translate to brainwaves somehow. Since we are always connected to astral and deeper realities out there, every dream and imagined thing should be at some level at least a little real (some interpretation of it), a signal to noise ratio we continually adjust with our thoughts.
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 01:07:23 »

I loved it! A really good explanation between the things that can happen when we try to have OBE.
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 01:07:23 »



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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2014, 01:48:12 »

This is a really good point you made here, it delves deeper into what many experts like Tom Campbell say about the matter. Now I was trying to find the resources on your blog that you talked about on your techniques for increasing awareness and I found a lot of good stuff but not what I was looking for. Could you point that out?  smiley
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2014, 03:34:19 »

Hi Xanth,

I totally agree with your point of view here. 

My experience with remote viewing and astral projection work, makes me suspect that the spectrum of consciousness has some tight overlaps as to where they exist on the "spectrum". I am starting to experiment with Lucid Dreaming now and am curious as to how well I will navigate that space.  I experience the spectrum of my awareness, or rather to say my "experience" of my awareness, in a very multidimensional manner anyway, so the lines between some of these states of awareness seems (to me) to be rather fluid. 

I am curious as to what you mean by "full spectrum of awareness". 

Do you mean engaging all the sensory modalities in an astrally projected state?

Stuart
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Xanth
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2014, 04:07:31 »

Actually, there are no overlaps at all... because the terms you're using (ie: remote viewing, astral projection, lucid dreaming, etc...) aren't objective experiences that exist.  There really is only consciousness and consciousness that experiences (awareness).  Consciousness is the everything (the "one") while awareness is the you (the singular perspective of that "one").

That's why the "states" are so fluid.

In my article, experiencing the "full spectrum of awareness" means to go through all the different states... having what I call a "Dream Awareness", a "Lucid Awareness" and an "Astral Awareness".  Experiencing each of those states separately, yet within a singular non-physical experience.  THAT has been the greatest experience I've had, as it's shown me the very fluidity of these states of awareness within consciousness that we're talking about.  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2014, 18:49:17 »

Xanth,

Thanks for the reply. 

Have you ever done RV in a group before or shared a dream space with another person?

Pax
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Xanth
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« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2014, 20:03:23 »

Xanth,

Thanks for the reply. 

Have you ever done RV in a group before or shared a dream space with another person?

Pax
Not to my knowledge, no. 
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2016, 23:37:24 »

I can't help but agree here. I know labeling helps us understand the context when describing our experiences but have to add my own thoughts. I do believe 'how' we experience things relies heavily on our innate talents.

Much like 3 people all having musical talents. One plays instruments but can not sing. One writes music but can not play well. One can read music and sings well. All talented, all bringing something different to the table and all capable of entertaining on an individual level as well as a group level. I would call them all musically talented.

We can try our hand at any of the approaches (RV, LD, OOBE, AP) and perhaps become a master of all. But we might be better suited to mastering one or two.
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Xanth
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« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2016, 05:25:20 »

I can't help but agree here. I know labeling helps us understand the context when describing our experiences but have to add my own thoughts. I do believe 'how' we experience things relies heavily on our innate talents.

Much like 3 people all having musical talents. One plays instruments but can not sing. One writes music but can not play well. One can read music and sings well. All talented, all bringing something different to the table and all capable of entertaining on an individual level as well as a group level. I would call them all musically talented.

We can try our hand at any of the approaches (RV, LD, OOBE, AP) and perhaps become a master of all. But we might be better suited to mastering one or two.
I'll give you a direct example of how "labeling" is a negative...

There was a member of the Astral Pulse at one point whom asked me for help on Astral Projecting.
This particular member was, per their own direction, never able to "project".  After talking to him many times and listening to them explain other previous "close calls", I had determined that they *DID* successfully project MANY times, yet, because the person couldn't put their experiences into a neat little defined label, they literally threw out and ignored that experience.

They had a full blown astral projection, but because they were so stuck on labels (LD, AP, etc) they couldn't reconcile their experience and ended up ignoring it.  Even after I told them they had projected just fine, they could't grasp the concept that they had.  Really sad case of someone holding onto labels so strongly that they couldn't see the forest for the trees.

This is why I tell people to expand their own personal definitions or even drop labels altogether if they're able to.

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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2016, 07:16:58 »

Good you tried at least. Reading through some of these threads I see exactly what you mean. Sometimes I want to say, "what do you mean you just had a lucid dream? You did exactly what everyone is talking about. Learn from it don't toss it." Of course most of those threads are so old and the member haven't checked in in so long I don't. It all comes down to balance.  smiley
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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2016, 02:54:55 »

Interesting.  Assuming we are consciousness experiencing various levels of lucidity, where does the waking state fit in?  Just another level of consciousness?  If so, extending that further, a different level of lucidity?

My interest here is not in more labeling, but rather what is the relationship between "physical" and "nonphysical" states of consciousness?  It seems that all the techniques of attaining lucidity while not fully awake ("non-physical awareness") are just a means of attaining control of consciousness in the same manner as we naturally do (well, truth is we learned that too) when awake ("physical awareness").  Seen this way, consciousness is a continuum regardless if you are awake or asleep.

I find this notion very exciting since it leads to the inevitable conclusion that we are always "dreaming" or "projecting", whether we're aware of it or not. 

This in turn begs the question, if we are to use techniques to ground lucidity during sleep, doesn't it make sense to use them during wakeful states as well?  To push this further, control of "nonphysical" lucidity and "physical" lucidity seem directly linked - one mirrors the other.  More control in daily life will lead to more control in "dreams".
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Xanth
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« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2016, 06:24:23 »

Interesting.  Assuming we are consciousness experiencing various levels of lucidity, where does the waking state fit in?  Just another level of consciousness?  If so, extending that further, a different level of lucidity?
Our physical reality waking state is our "home" or "base" state.  We were born into this physical reality to experience all of it's confines, rules and limitation in order to learn.  When we fall asleep at night (or project consciously), we move beyond those physical limitations and move within the consciousness system to other realities, where we're not strictly under the confines of that reality's particular rules and limitations.

Quote
My interest here is not in more labeling, but rather what is the relationship between "physical" and "nonphysical" states of consciousness?  It seems that all the techniques of attaining lucidity while not fully awake ("non-physical awareness") are just a means of attaining control of consciousness in the same manner as we naturally do (well, truth is we learned that too) when awake ("physical awareness").  Seen this way, consciousness is a continuum regardless if you are awake or asleep.
Exactly.  Smiley

Regardless of what 'reality' you're experiencing, your "individual awareness" can retain as much or as little "you" (when I say "you", I mean the part of you which you identify as the make up of YOU, your memories and your life experiences).

That level of retaining the "you" is what I'm referring to with the different levels of lucidity.

dream awareness = no 'you' present in your individual awareness.
lucid awareness = a bit of the 'you' present in your individual awareness.  For example, you know enough that what you're experiencing isn't your physical reality, but you don't quite have enough "you" present to do much else with that information.
astral awareness = YOU are fully present in your individual awareness with as close to or entirely your memories and life experiences to draw from.  The you as you are right now.

One could then say that you're physical reality experience here is an "physical astral awareness" experience.

Also, take note that you can have a "dream awareness" while awake in this physical reality.  I know I've certainly experienced this... have you ever been so blind drunk that you don't remember anything you did the night before?  That's a "physical dream awareness" experience in the same way that you fall asleep at night and have a "non-physical dream awareness" experience... which most people here would probably call "just a dream".

Quote
I find this notion very exciting since it leads to the inevitable conclusion that we are always "dreaming" or "projecting", whether we're aware of it or not. 
After all, life is but a dream.  Smiley

Quote
This in turn begs the question, if we are to use techniques to ground lucidity during sleep, doesn't it make sense to use them during wakeful states as well?  To push this further, control of "nonphysical" lucidity and "physical" lucidity seem directly linked - one mirrors the other.  More control in daily life will lead to more control in "dreams".
Exactly. 
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