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Author Topic: Experiences with beelzebub / Astral codex  (Read 2834 times)
luffy28
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« on: August 25, 2016, 04:31:13 »

I've read up to chapter 3 [of astral codex] and read a little after that. He doesn't give any actual techniques to astral project with only tips.

I googled "astral projection concentration techniques", and only got one technique that said to listen to the heart as you fall asleep.

Any tips?

Thanks.
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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2016, 14:25:01 »

Forget beelzebub.    Perhaps I should not say that.   I am not helping.   There are better ways than beelzebub.   I did his courses years ago.   I stopped going as I found out it was evil.   I should have known.   His name says it.   It is up to you what you do.   Just my opinion.     
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2016, 14:25:01 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Xanth
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2016, 16:54:36 »

I think I'm missing something here... you're taking projection lessons from a demon?  O_o
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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2016, 17:19:34 »

You could say I was silly.   My husband kept telling me but I wanted to go.   It was a long time ago.   I do not regret it.   I was with other people and I had fun.   The good news is I learn from my mistakes and I move on.   
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Szaxx
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2016, 18:11:17 »

This is known as the 'left hand path', it's not worth following as there's more to it than you realise and you may not like it.
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2016, 18:11:17 »



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Xanth
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2016, 18:52:29 »

I'm still lost.   huh

Oh well... you don't get anywhere nice by knowing where you're going!  Cheesy
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2016, 19:25:36 »

Forget beelzebub.    Perhaps I should not say that.   I am not helping.   There are better ways than beelzebub.   I did his courses years ago.   I stopped going as I found out it was evil.   I should have known.   His name says it.   It is up to you what you do.   Just my opinion. 

Astralsuzy, what did you experience that made you conclude it was 'evil'? (Other than the name... I'm wondering because you also said you had fun...?)

Szaxx, How do you identify a path as being "of the Left Hand"?
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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2016, 01:25:42 »

I had fun because I was with other people.   I was able to talk about ap.   I had lunch with them.   I had good times.    It was a long time ago when I did the courses so my memory is a bit foggy.   I remember in the course we were taught Beezlebuub said imagine a noose is hanging around your neck.   When that happens you will be up in the next level.   Later I thought about it and I was not impressed.   I thought if you imagined a noose around your neck it would be awful.   If you became aware that a rope was chocking you how could that get you up into a next level.   
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2016, 02:01:09 »

I had fun because I was with other people.   I was able to talk about ap.   I had lunch with them.   I had good times.    It was a long time ago when I did the courses so my memory is a bit foggy.   I remember in the course we were taught Beezlebuub said imagine a noose is hanging around your neck.   When that happens you will be up in the next level.   Later I thought about it and I was not impressed.   I thought if you imagined a noose around your neck it would be awful.   If you became aware that a rope was chocking you how could that get you up into a next level.   

That reminds me of the story about a disciple who was asking his Master questions at the village fountain. He asked, "What do I need to do to attain Liberation?" and the Master immediately grabbed him and plunged his head under the water. Soon the disciple was struggling and then thrashing violently trying to break loose. Just as he was about to pass out the Master yanked him out and he sucked in a huge breath of air. The Disciple yelled, "What did you do that for?!"
The Master replied, "When you desire Liberation as much as you wanted a breath of air just now, you will be able to begin".

I am thinking the "noose" analogy was meant to instill a sense of urgency.

I have been among followers and members of quite a few cults over the decades. One thing I have noticed is that, as a group, many cult followers tend to make more progress in the early stages of learning than individuals who simply do a little meditation and a lot of reading. A couple exceptions would be the HareKrishnas and the Moonies, who I generally found to be rather clueless and often zombie-like.

I am curious what your sense of the level of knowledge and/or attainment of these followers was... ?....


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luffy28
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« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2016, 02:46:51 »

I don't care if they're a cult.

As long as I can learn ap from them.

I've seen reviews of the book and people said they astral projected with it.

How is he supposed to hurt me if he can't see me.

Also I just need to talk to people who've had success with ap.

Other than that I need a book that is free (low on money) that I can learn ap from and successfully astral project.

Does anybody know any techniques from him other than the heart technique?

Thanks.
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luffy28
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2016, 07:40:50 »

I also wanted to ask what is meant by being asleep?

In almost every book (from Monroe to Robert Bruce to most of the books I've read on astral projection) the author says your body needs to be asleep.

A lot of the time I lie in my bed but my mind is in a very day dream like state. While my body is if it's actually asleep. Is this the condition the authors talk about.

Or is it actually being physically asleep?

Thanks.
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ThaomasOfGrey
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« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2016, 08:13:06 »

@luffy28, forget the left hand path stuff. As you pointed out, if you can learn something valuable, take it and remain mindful of the source. We can't get tied up in dogmatism.

Here is my key take away from what I have read so far in Astral Codex, and thanks for making me aware of this book. The author describes that when it comes to conscious projection (I assume that is our goal) that the majority of users find success in this particular circumstance: the mind is in a state of concentration, at the time that the body falls asleep.

Immediately we have four concepts to deal with that really lack sufficient context in the english language. Mind, concentration, body and asleep. The author points out that concentration is not the same as quieting the mind, and it is also not the same as imagination or free flow thought. Concentration seems to be about a thread of awareness that remains statically fixed on a topic of choice, even as others come and go.

When he talks about the body falling asleep, I think it means literally as if you are asleep. If you had a person sitting there monitoring you they would believe you have fallen asleep, even if you are actually still aware mentally. It is difficult to tell from the insider perspective whether you are asleep yet or not. If the author is to believed projection occurs at the moment of sleep so if you are wondering if you are there yet, you aren't!

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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2016, 08:31:25 »

I googled "astral projection concentration techniques", and only got one technique that said to listen to the heart as you fall asleep.

Any tips?

Thanks.
You could become an expert at listening to your heart beat but that is likely not to get you out of your body.    When I was at the course years ago I spoke to a man and he listening to his heart beat.   He became extremely good at it.   His toes, legs etc became heart beats and eventually his whole body began beating.   I said to him did you ap and he said no.   I always wondered why he did not succeed.   Years later I realise that he still has to get out of his body. 
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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2016, 08:37:23 »

I did not read your earlier posts.   I should not have mentioned the heart technique as you did not want to know about it.   His main technique was the heart technique.   
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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2016, 11:02:13 »

I just remembered another technique by Beezlebuub and that is you visualise or imagine that you are at the Pyramids of Egypt.   
I would forget about the authors when they say your body has to be asleep.   I think it sounds confusing.   Just think of it as your body is relaxed.   You say your mind is in a very day dream state.   That sounds perfect.  You sound like you are in a position to ap.   Just imagine something and you will be there  or doing that activity.
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Astralsuzy
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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2016, 11:08:33 »

That reminds me of the story about a disciple who was asking his Master questions at the village fountain. He asked, "What do I need to do to attain Liberation?" and the Master immediately grabbed him and plunged his head under the water. Soon the disciple was struggling and then thrashing violently trying to break loose. Just as he was about to pass out the Master yanked him out and he sucked in a huge breath of air. The Disciple yelled, "What did you do that for?!"
The Master replied, "When you desire Liberation as much as you wanted a breath of air just now, you will be able to begin".

I am thinking the "noose" analogy was meant to instill a sense of urgency.

I have been among followers and members of quite a few cults over the decades. One thing I have noticed is that, as a group, many cult followers tend to make more progress in the early stages of learning than individuals who simply do a little meditation and a lot of reading. A couple exceptions would be the HareKrishnas and the Moonies, who I generally found to be rather clueless and often zombie-like.

I am curious what your sense of the level of knowledge and/or attainment of these followers was... ?....



I am not sure exactly what you are asking.   I think a lot of people cannot think for themselves.   They have to have someone to think for them.   It does not matter how silly it is they still have to follow a leader.    At least I think for myself.    I work things out.   My husband would say you should have realised in the beginning.   As I said I wanted to go for fun and to meet people with similar interests.   
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Szaxx
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2016, 13:04:53 »

Have a read and this'll clarify.
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/lefthandpath.html
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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2016, 21:47:42 »

Have a read and this'll clarify.
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/lefthandpath.html

That was an interesting article, Ssaxx, Thanks.

Here is a quick summary it provided;

Features of LHP philosophies frequently include:

    Emphasis on freethought, not dogma or strict systems.
    Highly individualistic.
    A distinct rejection of absolutes and moralism.
    Personal, not universal.


Heh, that would include MOST of Western Civilization nowadays!

But what I was curious about was how you knew enough about this path to make the following evaluation; "This is known as the 'left hand path', it's not worth following as there's more to it than you realise and you may not like it. "  (?)

And just FYI, I would like to clarify a glaring error in that article which is consistent with the ubiquitous anti-Catholic bigotry in the world. It said;

"Catholic Schools until surprisingly recently used to punish those who dared write left-handed because they were presupposed to be working for the devil - such children were "corrected" - a word which itself means "with the right"."

I know for a fact that this is absolutely false. I went to Catholic school in the pre-Vatican II days and this simply was not the case. Not only were lefties accepted in stride but extra material effort and cost was made to accommodate them. Every classroom had a row of left-handed desks along the far left aisle. This claim was not true then and it is certainly not true now.

Also, "corrected" etymology has nothing to do "with the right".
Middle English (as a verb): from Latin correct- ‘made straight, amended,’ from the verb corrigere, from cor- ‘together’ + regere ‘guide.’ The adjective is via French.
I have often noticed how many otherwise intelligent writers quickly morph stupid as soon as their "Catholic/Xtian" button gets hit.



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RobertForsythe
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2016, 22:30:46 »

You could become an expert at listening to your heart beat but that is likely not to get you out of your body.    When I was at the course years ago I spoke to a man and he listening to his heart beat.   He became extremely good at it.   His toes, legs etc became heart beats and eventually his whole body began beating.   I said to him did you ap and he said no.   I always wondered why he did not succeed.   Years later I realise that he still has to get out of his body. 

Thanks Astralsuzy, this answers my question (which you said you weren't sure about what I was asking).

I have found this type of observation to be generally true concerning nearly all these cults. They talk a big story but when you get right down to brass tacks they really can't astral project worth beans. In about a half dozen cults that I got to know quite well and again in another half dozen that I got to know a little, almost no one could claim even so much as a few lucid dreams much less actual full conscious OBE projection. Even senior level members who held "teacher" status! I also noticed that despite what they admitted to me in private they would claim otherwise among new people coming to the meetings. They would take a handful of vivid dreams and use that as their claim to OBE ability.
Among the Thelema Initiates I knew there were certain tests that had to be passed in order to be initiated above certain levels that required "astral projection" projection ability and quietly on the side they would admit to me that they managed the test with more of a remote viewing effort. This is fine and all, just to me they ought not to be claiming actual full conscious OBE projection abilities when it simply ain't so.
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Xanth
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2016, 22:37:47 »

To be fair, the "left handed" = "devil" thing is from *centuries* ago.  It's not a modern day thing (I dunno *when* it stopped though, can't find the research on such short time frame).
They *DID* hold that particular belief at one time in the far past.
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luffy28
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2016, 23:46:35 »

@luffy28, forget the left hand path stuff. As you pointed out, if you can learn something valuable, take it and remain mindful of the source. We can't get tied up in dogmatism.

Here is my key take away from what I have read so far in Astral Codex, and thanks for making me aware of this book. The author describes that when it comes to conscious projection (I assume that is our goal) that the majority of users find success in this particular circumstance: the mind is in a state of concentration, at the time that the body falls asleep.

Immediately we have four concepts to deal with that really lack sufficient context in the english language. Mind, concentration, body and asleep. The author points out that concentration is not the same as quieting the mind, and it is also not the same as imagination or free flow thought. Concentration seems to be about a thread of awareness that remains statically fixed on a topic of choice, even as others come and go.

When he talks about the body falling asleep, I think it means literally as if you are asleep. If you had a person sitting there monitoring you they would believe you have fallen asleep, even if you are actually still aware mentally. It is difficult to tell from the insider perspective whether you are asleep yet or not. If the author is to believed projection occurs at the moment of sleep so if you are wondering if you are there yet, you aren't!

Then is this (when they put their body in a sleep / half awake state / super daydream) the same as body asleep / mind awake state?

Also when using techniques is it good to use techniques from these pages.

http://in5d.com/30-astral-projection-techniques/

https://www.google.com/#q=66+astral+projection+techniques+pdf

Thanks for any future replies.
 

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astralm
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2016, 00:58:43 »

I believe left handed devil connection goes back to the early Latin church days.  I believe sinister means left handed.  I know it is still used in chemistry to describe "left handed" isomers of molecules.

Luffy if you really don't care if the methods you learn are evil or harmful you might consider thinking on that some.  Not caring about the state of your consciousness can lead to some serious blocks and limitations.  I guess one question might be what are you looking for out your ap experiences.  knowing this might make knowing what techniques might work for you easier.
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luffy28
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« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2016, 01:21:21 »

I believe left handed devil connection goes back to the early Latin church days.  I believe sinister means left handed.  I know it is still used in chemistry to describe "left handed" isomers of molecules.

Luffy if you really don't care if the methods you learn are evil or harmful you might consider thinking on that some.  Not caring about the state of your consciousness can lead to some serious blocks and limitations.  I guess one question might be what are you looking for out your ap experiences.  knowing this might make knowing what techniques might work for you easier.

Just to learn life lessons, explore the astral, see dead relatives. Go over past lives. Stuff like that.

I'm going to try one of the techniques from either in5d or the 66 techniques.

Thanks.
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2016, 01:58:07 »

I believe left handed devil connection goes back to the early Latin church days.  I believe sinister means left handed.  I know it is still used in chemistry to describe "left handed" isomers of molecules.

Actually it wasn't just an early Latin Church thing. It was freeking UNIVERSAL across basically all cultures, all continents, across eons of time and persists in many parts of the world to this day. It would have been unusual for any culture to not think that way. (please see the link that Szaxx provided above).

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Szaxx
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2016, 12:26:56 »

It is still practiced today unfortunately for those who enter without prior knowledge. Young girls below consensual age are 'interfered' with on an altar which is part of the ritualistic goings on. This I have had some 'connection' with and done the right hand thing. Those taking part were assisted to a term of enlightenment in the form of a sabbatical at her majesty's pleasure.
Totally disgusted with the disregard shown by the members of the cult, action had to be taken. The young girl is free of them as a result and is living her life free from the infection they imposed.
It's not a nice thing to endure especially if you fail exams as a result. You mess up your life and no cult is worth that whatever false promises are indoctrinated before the initiation.
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