how do i know if it was an OBE or a lucid dream?

[charmsloo]

Last night was an interesting night for me. I went to bed rather late as I was studying for a test, probably around 1 o'clock. When I started feeling a mix between buzzing and vibrations. I remember thinking to myself I don't want to try to astral project tonight I just wanted to sleep, but I remained conscious, and I think I felt my astral body coming out. But then, something strange happened, and Its kind of hard to explain. I felt like I was floating, but I also was aware of my body. After focusing on my body this sensation faded.
Now Im not sure if I experienced a vivid lucid dream or actually astral projected.
So, my question is when some of you guys is when you astral project can you without a doubt distinguish it from a dream?
Does it literally feel like real life to the point it feels like your sleep walking?

[proyect_outzone]

So, my question is when some of you guys is when you astral project can you without a doubt distinguish it from a dream?
Does it literally feel like real life to the point it feels like your sleep walking?

The definition of the border between OBE and Lucid dream is complicated. Many people think very different about. This has been made more complicated because many lucid dreamer dont believe in OBEs and call their OBEs also lucid dreams when they tell about.

I believe following:

1-In dreams are no physical sensations like moving, falling, coldness, heat, .... possible.
2-foods dont have taste, noises can not be heared realistic.
3-Dreams are "flat". They lack of many uniomportant details, like weather, light, ambient, things which are not interesting for the dreamer (what the dreamer does not see, will the dreamer never memorize later)
4-dreams are unstable. everythings changes fast and very dynamic.
5-it can even happen, that one sees a person and one IS then that person. It is also possible in dreams that one sees oneself acting.

OBEs can have more details, and can be complete realistic, like the real live is. Even more detailled and sharper than the reality!
1-physical sensations are present and can be very realistic
2-Foods have taste, noises are realistic
3-OBEs are "deep", there are things visible, which are not interesting for the Experienceer, like weather, light, ambient, noises, (the Experienceer can memorize later also things which where not interesting during the experience)
4-OBEs are stable, they change much more slowly than dreams
5-one changes not the roles in OBEs, one sees not oneself acting during a OBE

If one writes a dream diary, one will notice, that only very few "Experiences" with properties of both groups exists. By far the most "Experiences" are one of the both extremes. They have all properties or none of them. Thats, why im so shure about this border. (Notice: Many dreams occur, while the dreamer is out of the body, such dreams does not require any methods to occur)

[Xanth]

To me a lucid dream, or what I call a "non-physical lucid awareness experience", is simply an obe where you have slightly less conscious awareness.  You're not "fully" awake while non-physical. 

Take a look at yourself right now, you have what I call a "waking awareness".
Well, if you had this "waking awareness" while in the non-physical, then you'd be having what I call a "non-physical astral awareness experience".

[Stookie_]

I believe following:

1-In dreams are no physical sensations like moving, falling, coldness, heat, .... possible.
2-foods dont have taste, noises can not be heared realistic.
3-Dreams are "flat". They lack of many uniomportant details, like weather, light, ambient, things which are not interesting for the dreamer (what the dreamer does not see, will the dreamer never memorize later)
4-dreams are unstable. everythings changes fast and very dynamic.
5-it can even happen, that one sees a person and one IS then that person. It is also possible in dreams that one sees oneself acting.

I don't agree with this. I know I have detailed dreams (not even LD's, I can smell and taste and see details in regular dreams), so in my case (and possibly others) this wouldn't be relevant in comparison to OBE's. Granted, there are differences between the two, but I wouldn't define them in relation to physical sensations/perceptions. For me it would be in terms of awareness and area of consciousness.

[Volgerle]

I think there is no such thing as a clear-cut distinction, it is just a lucidity continuum:

dream-/unconscious state <-------------------------------->concious / lucid state

and that applies to all realities you as consciousness can "focus" on, even the physical, when you are "awake" but in a state of day"dreaming" or being drowsy or groggy or drugged or drunk or whatever, you are also more on the left side of the continuum depending on the degree of the respective state, and you are this even though you are "officially" in "waking" state in your physical body

in the non-physical, i believe that you are more in connection with your Higher Self / subconsciousness when you are on the left (dream) side rather than on the right, I had clearer insights in dreams than in lucid ventures

these two parameters (dreamstate, lucid state) of consciousness experience is all that counts for me now, one should not burden oneself with further labels anymore

[proyect_outzone]

I don't agree with this. I know I have detailed dreams (not even LD's, I can smell and taste and see details in regular dreams), so in my case (and possibly others) this wouldn't be relevant in comparison to OBE's. Granted, there are differences between the two, but I wouldn't define them in relation to physical sensations/perceptions. For me it would be in terms of awareness and area of consciousness.

Many of the dreams are taking place out of the body, even if the dreamer never did anything to archive this. So the dreams and OBEs can divided in 4 Groups depending from lucidity:

Not very clear and not realistic are:
1. Nonlucid common dream (dream which is only acting in the own brain)
2. Lucid common dream (dream which is only acting in the own brain, while one knows, one is dreaming)

Very clear and very realistic are:
3. Nonlucid OBE (i call them dream-obe-combinations, that are dreams, where one is not knowing, that one is in a OBE,....."sleepwalking" with the astral body)
4. (lucid) OBE

[Pauli2]

The Dream forum has some threads on this subject, you may for example look up Robert Peterson's statements on the subject.

[catmeow]

It seems there are as many opinions on this as there are posts!  In my opinion, PWC (physical waking consciousness), Dreams, LD, AP, AP, OBE are characterised by locale/consciousness level:

PWC - Locale: physical world. Consciousness level: normal clear consciousness
Dream - Locale: private. Consciousness level: low
LD - Locale: private. Consciousness level: between dream and PWC
AP - Locale: astral plane. Consciousness level: equal to or higher than PWC
OBE - Locale: physical world. Consciousness level: equal to or higher than PWC

Whilst you are having an OBE or AP you know for sure it is real.  When you wake up, your consciousness level is the same or lower than it was during the OBE/AP so you know for sure it was real.

Whilst you are having a LD you do not have this certainty. When you wake up a question mark still remains.

This is the difference between LD and OBE/AP. That is not to say that a LD does not take place in the astral. It possibly does, but in a "private" astral environment of your own making, which begs the question of calling it "astral". Sometimes LDs occur in a concensus environment, and this happens when you and a friend "share" an LD.  In such a case I would classify it as a LD if your consciousness level was lower than normal, and as an AP if your consciousness level was normal or heightened.

IMO

[catmeow]

The Dream forum has some threads on this subject, you may for example look up Robert Peterson's statements on the subject.

Interesting chart by Bob Peterson. I would agree with it rather than "shred it"!

[Volgerle]

The problem is, that we still apply our 4D (timespace) perspective to put labels on experiences.

There is no evidence for me that 'dreams' are 'located' somewhere, e.g. as s.o. stated above as 'only in the brain', which for me does not make any sense at all. I find it more reasonable to assume that nothing takes place only in the brain. Same applies to AP/OBE or whatever lucid or clairvoyant experience of other 'realities'. we try to describe.

Timespace is a virtual construct of consciousness for reality creation according to a certain ruleset. When talking about AP (or dreams) we transcend timespace and these things do not apply, still we try to put them in drawers with time and space as important parameters. I more and more think that this is not the right approach anymore.

[catmeow]

The problem is, that we still apply our 4D (timespace) perspective to put labels on experiences.

There is no evidence for me that 'dreams' are 'located' somewhere, e.g. as s.o. stated above as 'only in the brain', which for me does not make any sense at all. I find it more reasonable to assume that nothing takes place only in the brain. Same applies to AP/OBE or whatever lucid or clairvoyant experience of other 'realities'. we try to describe.

Timespace is a virtual construct of consciousness for reality creation according to a certain ruleset. When talking about AP (or dreams) we transcend timespace and these things do not apply, still we try to put them in drawers with time and space as important parameters. I more and more think that this is not the right approach anymore.

Timespace is a construct we use in the physical sciences to allow us to make predictions about things in the physical world. It is extremely useful. Don't get me wrong, "timespace" as such may not exist but it is an extremely useful "model" which allows us to predict things in the physical world.  The timespace model probably doesn't apply to OBE/LD experiences, but presumably there is an alternative model if only we could find it.  In my analysis (simple as it is) above I made no assumptions about the astral existing in timespace. I don't think it does.

[thatguy]

Based on my experience (which is very limited), I have noticed some differences. When I'm lucid dreaming, I am slightly aware and in control of the dream and my actions in the dream, but I don't really know it is a dream. It's just like if it was real, and when I wake up is when I realize I was dreaming.

On an OBE, it is very different. I do am aware I'm laying in my bed but somewhere else at the same time. It's hard to explain but its like having two awareness at two different realities at the same time. Sometimes one is more focused than the other. For me, things like feeling myself snoring is what makes me aware of my physical body. But then if your try to ignore it, will make you more focus in whatever your experiencing.

[Mela]

The way that I can tell that it is different from a lucid dream is the feeling of the tingly vibrations, actually sitting up out of my physical body and I usually see it, and also the tremendous amount of control over the world you are in. I have always had lucid dreams, and have always been able to control them to a point. But the amount of control you have over your body, and the world around you when you astral project is non-comparable. It's an experience like no other-- when it happens you will know without a question. To me, it doesn't feel like I am dreaming--it's a totally different feeling.